[mikado]

(01-07-2015 09:18 AM)michelin Wrote:  

Quote:

(01-07-2015 07:15 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Enough with the religion trolling please.
It's not like a mob constitued of a group of people shouting "In God we believe, and Muhammad is his messenger" attacked Charlie Hebdo.

Mikado, sorry to tell you that that was actually exactly what these terrorists shouted:

Quote:

The gunmen shouted "we have avenged the Prophet Muhammad", witnesses say

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883

I explained what I meant earlier on the thread. I did not focus on the content, but on the number of people who intervened in this attack.

[Teedub]

(01-07-2015 09:16 AM)Cincinnatus Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 08:24 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

It's alien, it's frightening, and it's going to end extremely messily. And I don't say that in a "I can't wait for a civil war" way, I actually am scared of these type of lone wolf attacks. They're going to happen on an increasing basis across Europe in my opinion.

One thing I think these Islamic extremists seem to forget is that Europeans are really, really good at war. So good, in fact, that nearly the whole continent hasn't seen a war on its own soil since the mid 1940's, when tens of millions of Europeans died. Europeans are so fucking good at war that they've been avoiding another one at nearly any cost, after centuries upon centuries of conflict.

If these extremist Islamic assholes keep pushing, sooner or later they will awaken a new European war machine, and it's not going to be pretty.

The problem is, is that the nations that used to be "really, really good at war" are fundamentally different to what they once were. Demographically, ideologically, prosperity-wise etc. Me and my mates would be shit scared and crap in a war compared to people of just a generation or two ago. Never mind the difference between modern Scandinavians and the Vikings etc.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-07-2015 09:20 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

If these extremist Islamic assholes keep pushing, sooner or later they will awaken a new European war machine

That would require elections of more rightward politicians, which is exactly what we're seeing in Europe now. We're looking at a 10-20 years timeline for radical changes, which is short in the grand scheme of things. Even Sweden's far right party is rising.

It's ironic that the policies used to prevent another WW2 will create something just as bad.

What will happen to women's fantasy world of calling themselves "equal" to men by stealing from men and spending on themselves if Europe moves to the right?

Hopefully it is done away with forever.

[speakeasy]

Just the other day there were massive protests in Germany by SJW types against anti Muslim demonstrators. The Cologne Cathedral even turned off its lights in solidarity with the liberal Germans welcoming Muslim immigration into Europe.

Now this. I hope these people are all eating some humble pie right now. The timing of this attack couldn't have been more ironic.

Let's also see how Muslims respond to this. Let's see if there are large Muslim counter demonstrations against violent Islam by peaceful Muslims the way liberal Germans demonstrated against the German patriots. I bet the silence will be deafening.

[Roosh]

Quote:

Me and my mates would be shit scared and crap in a war compared to people of just a generation or two ago

Especially to defend a consumer way of life. Who will die to preserve their internet and netflix habits? In the past people would defend their "nation" and family. The nation has been destroyed in place of globalization and you likely have no family of your own besides what's on your social network.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-07-2015 09:32 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

Me and my mates would be shit scared and crap in a war compared to people of just a generation or two ago

Especially to defend a consumer way of life. Who will die to preserve their internet and netflix habits? In the past people would defend their "nation" and family. The nation has been destroyed in place of globalization and you likely have no family of your own besides what's on your social network.

I was thinking about this just a few minutes ago.

I wouldn't want to go fight for the USA. A country that treated me, a male, as a 2nd class citizen. A country that said women must get all the benefits and I must do the hard work. A country that has spent the last 20 years ridiculing men and telling women they are perfect.

Now they need me, and they want me to go get shot at while those same women sit on their asses and prepare themselves to just submit to the Islamic extremist invaders in case they happen to win.

No, no, no, it is time for the women to go die by the thousands. This is their country, let them defend it. I am but a slave here.

[TravelerKai]

(01-07-2015 09:28 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 09:16 AM)Cincinnatus Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 08:24 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

It's alien, it's frightening, and it's going to end extremely messily. And I don't say that in a "I can't wait for a civil war" way, I actually am scared of these type of lone wolf attacks. They're going to happen on an increasing basis across Europe in my opinion.

One thing I think these Islamic extremists seem to forget is that Europeans are really, really good at war. So good, in fact, that nearly the whole continent hasn't seen a war on its own soil since the mid 1940's, when tens of millions of Europeans died. Europeans are so fucking good at war that they've been avoiding another one at nearly any cost, after centuries upon centuries of conflict.

If these extremist Islamic assholes keep pushing, sooner or later they will awaken a new European war machine, and it's not going to be pretty.

The problem is, is that the nations that used to be "really, really good at war" are fundamentally different to what they once were. Demographically, ideologically, prosperity-wise etc. Me and my mates would be shit scared and crap in a war compared to people of just a generation or two ago. Never mind the difference between modern Scandinavians and the Vikings etc.

Yeah I don't think the world wants to see a revived Germany. The other countries do not seem to have the sheer numbers to be very dangerous, but with a weaker US that is trending down on numbers/eligible for service men, economy, etc. that might not matter in 10-20 years. The whole world is getting smaller birthrate wise (for high GDP countries) as a whole unless certain countries decide to buck that trend with policy changes.

In a way all this drone warfare and rotocopters that have guns might fill in for a lack of manpower in the future. If it is one thing alot of those formerly dangerous countries have right now, is economy buying power.

[El Chinito loco]

(01-07-2015 08:02 AM)Brotein Wrote:  

I train with some Muslim guys and one thing that is very clear is that you should not make fun of Islam or their culture or they will lose their shit. They are all tough as hell (chechens).

This is a clash of cultures: millenial liberal westerners poking the most aggressive high T men on the face of the planet. Attack their religion or culture and you can expect a fight on your hands.

I am an atheist and a tough dude, but I step around this topic when talking to them.

Yeah sure, these guys are real billy badasses up until the point a more well equipped, civilized, and organized people gets tired of their bullshit and runs them into a shallow grave.

An example is how Russia pounded the ass of the Chechen capital Grozny into dust until all that's left is child soldiers, prostitutes, and a few independent cells running around taking hostages and strapping bombs to their chests.

Or how about Xinjiang province? Xinjiang has loads of overly aggressive and even allegedly outside equipped men just like this but China does not put up with their shit. When they act up killing Han Chinese the media will cover the "massacre" and plaster it all over the place to mobilize majority opinion against the terrorists. Then the PRC secret squad will be rounded up to kick down doors and parade off the insurgents (and their families) to be beaten with broken truncheon handles and then they get to carry a little wooden sign before being shot in the head. It works. You get a few rounds of terror here and there but it keeps things from blowing up it full fledged insurgencies.

Or the historical example. Various islamic caliphates mouthed off to the Mongol force when diplomacy was offered. Guess what happened to those caliphates.

[Roosh]

(01-07-2015 09:30 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Just the other day there were massive protests in Germany by amy types against anti Muslim demonstrators. The Cologne Cathedral even turned off its lights in solidarity with the liberal Germans welcoming Muslim immigration into Europe.

Now this. I hope these people are all eating some humble pie right now. The timing of this attack couldn't have been more ironic.

This was big news on the European news channels the past couple of days. I watched some of the reports. Typically they had..

-One interview with anti-immigration side, done on some random man on the street in a winter hat
-Multiple interviews with pro-immigration side was always done with officials (mayors, politicians) in suits. Their comments about it being a movement of "hate" went undebated.

Even the German chancellor came out to call those protests "full of prejudice, hatred." She said this yesterday.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ja...mmigration

[Saweeep]

I don't think it would take much persuasion to get the British underclass off fighting a war again, were it ever needed.

[mikado]

My question is:
how would you conduct that war?

Remove citizenship of everyone who declares himself Muslim?
I don't think that would be really constitutionnal to ask someone to mandatorily specify his/her religion.

And besides that: who exactly are you all going to attack? I see the word war thrown often, but a war against who? which country? Where?

[TravelerKai]

France radically changed the world with it's French Revolution. At the time it scared the rest of Europe shitless and all monarchies at the time. In those times the educated French thinkers experimented with all sorts ideas, many of which the whole West uses today. America's revolution did not influence everything. France arguably was the first to experiment with concepts of true Atheist ideals in government. They mocked religion in ways America's founding fathers never did. They banned slavery long before other countries did, like in the 1300s. They have always been outside the box in many ways.

I guess the lesson here is that they historically have not been afraid to experiment and these radical types better be careful what they wish for.

[ryansoldat]

Quote:

My question is:
how would you conduct that war?

Remove citizenship of everyone who declares himself Muslim?
I don't think that would be really constitutionnal to ask someone to mandatorily specify his/her religion.

And besides that: who exactly are you all going to attack? I see the word war thrown often, but a war against who? which country? Where?

There is no solution. What is happening right now in Syria, Irak etc.... will soon come (or later) come to the gate of europe (i hope i m so wrong).

I don t see any muslim said oh let's do a walk about what happened it s horrible like it happened for Palestinian cause.

Thing is nothing will get better in France. I'm thinking myself about leaving Paris...

[It_is_my_time]

(01-07-2015 09:44 AM)mikado Wrote:  

My question is:
how would you conduct that war?

Remove citizenship of everyone who declares himself Muslim?
I don't think that would be really constitutionnal to ask someone to mandatorily specify his/her religion.

And besides that: who exactly are you all going to attack? I see the word war thrown often, but a war against who? which country? Where?

In the west, you are right, there is no enemy to attack itself. You could go after the Taliban, or Al Qaeda, or ISIS, but they just spread, wait it out, the come back again.

The real battle would be to stomp out liberal policies. Policies that leave borders open, or encourage immigration because citizen women refuse to have kids because they have been pumped full of feminist nonsense about careers.

[JJ Roberts]

Any confirmed leads about the comment that it might have been Mossad?

[berserk]

Europe has a draft. A lot of these 'pussy' European men, some keep talking about have been in the army. Many have fought in ME and Afghanistan. There are freecorps.

This will not end well if not adressed. Sweden had 5 attacks on mosques in a month. That is how it will begin. Isolated guerrilla, lone wolf counter-attacks. Both sides will escalate. Eventually an army under government by a democratically elected right-wing party steps in and declares state of emergency. After that, what happens is anyone's guess.

Better fix it before it gets to that, those who don't want fascist government. As Roosh points out though, denial is still very strong that there even is a problem, particularly in the left wing media. All this does, and the attempts to quell debate, is drive the everyman into the arms of national-socialist parties, which most of these 'anti-immigration' parties can be characterized as. Even if the current immigration issues are mostly the fault of the left, the right is also to blame, for not being willing to take a stance on cultural issues, defaulting to a libertarian stance: "Lower taxes will fix anything".

[scorpion]

I've obviously warned about attacks like this in the past. I take no pleasure in being proven correct, but perhaps now those who thought I was being alarmist, racist etc... will be more willing to listen to what I'm saying.

The key message is this: Islam is completely incompatible with Western civilization. You have to choose between them. Do you like your freedom of speech? Your liberal traditions? The separation of church and state? Tolerance of opposing viewpoints? That's good if you do. But Islam stands for none of these things. Islam is not simply a religion, it is an entire form of society that encompasses religious, cultural and political traditions entirely alien to the Western man.

The reality is that attacks like this are going to continue over the next few years in Europe, fueling an increasingly radicalized and popular right wing reactionary movement. Within a few years these movements will have the popular support to take over most European governments. The only question is whether or not the existing liberal power structure in Europe will go quietly in elections, or if they will use illegal means to squash right wing parties and attempt to hold onto power. If the latter happens, there will be civil war in Europe, as right-wing reactionary movements will wage guerrilla campaigns against both their leftist governments and all immigrant populations.

[TravelerKai]

(01-07-2015 09:44 AM)mikado Wrote:  

My question is:
how would you conduct that war?

Remove citizenship of everyone who declares himself Muslim?
I don't think that would be really constitutionnal to ask someone to mandatorily specify his/her religion.

And besides that: who exactly are you all going to attack? I see the word war thrown often, but a war against who? which country? Where?

It all comes down to votes and democracy. Here in the US a Tea Party Republican was actually able to challenge the current Speaker of the House who is a Republican, while a drop in a bucket right wing views are trending. Unlike the US, you guys have Parliamentary style type democracies, which make proportional representation. So if 60% of France is fed up and votes a party that will make the changes they really want, it can be done. Dissolving parliament and other tricks can only delay for so long. You guys can put new faces into your government faster than a 2 party representative style like ours.

Your system is faster with the downside of less stability and consistency of law changes, while ours has more stability on laws sticking and less changes being made, but the major downside to ours is that our government style is the least responsive when we really need something quickly (like reasonable healthcare reform).

All of this is moot if another la Terreur happens...

[Bushido]

(01-07-2015 09:44 AM)mikado Wrote:  

My question is:
how would you conduct that war?

Remove citizenship of everyone who declares himself Muslim?
I don't think that would be really constitutionnal to ask someone to mandatorily specify his/her religion.

And besides that: who exactly are you all going to attack? I see the word war thrown often, but a war against who? which country? Where?

Extreme right parties would probably want to repatriate anyone of Arab/Muslim descent to the Middle East by force. The British could conceivably send 3rd generation Pakistanis to Pakistan, despite them having British passports.

Very unlikely to happen but never say never if the true extremists take power one day. If you think the above is extreme, just check out the BNP manifesto. Their policy used to be to send blacks back to Africa.

[mikado]

you throw often the "send them back" message, but I think most of those who carry these terrorist attacks are born in the West, and have no home in their country of origin.
What you seem to propose is to create ghettos for them there? Or you just don't care, as long as they leave the borders?

Further, I don't think the classical Arab prince who's got money , bitches and alchohol will be sent there.

For me you can only carry action towards those who are NOT YET in the West, by changing immigration policies.

Some folks who immigrated here/ are born from parents who immigrated truly consider themselves as a member of their country of residence. You just cannot send them all to a country where they might even be rejected and killed, for coming from the West.

[Bushido]

^^ Mikado, your English is excellent but you misunderstand me and not for the first time. I'm not advocating the above policy. That is the policy of many of the extreme right parties.

[El Chinito loco]

(01-07-2015 10:05 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

The key message is this: Islam is completely incompatible with Western civilization. You have to choose between them. Do you like your freedom of speech? Your liberal traditions? The separation of church and state? Tolerance of opposing viewpoints? That's good if you do. But Islam stands for none of these things. Islam is not simply a religion, it is an entire form of society that encompasses religious, cultural and political traditions entirely alien to the Western man.

These practices have been going on with islamicists since the time of the silk road. If you go and look at buddhist artifacts you'll see plenty of defaced 2,000+ year old statues from Afghanistan up to the ancient deserted cities along the silk road entering China. Old grave relics predating even buddhism were also desecrated by 9-10th (?) century muslim warlords and bandits that were probably the ancestors of some of the current central asian shit stirrers.

The first thing these guys would do when they took over a city or outpost along the silk road was go scratch off the faces of ancient relics because it was an affront to the "true" prophet. The strain of islam that originates this form of extremist religious interpretation is a blight on humanity (even in the distant past) and should be treated as such.

[Truth Teller]

(01-07-2015 07:34 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

Fair enough, I edited my first comment.
For me the topic is religion though. This attack was almost certainly in response to some satirical article about Islam...the same place had previously been attacked for that reason.
I truly believe that society would be much better off without religion.
It has historically served a useful function as a way to control people but serves no purpose now for human advancement.

My academic background is the history of science. Like it or not, Christianity and Islam were hugely responsible for the rise of modern science.

Religion has far more "red pill" ideas than most will give it credit for. The churches are pathetic. The doctrines are actually very straightforward.

[Katdogbirdduck]

I think a good way to protect Europe would be to advocate the complete assimilation of immigrants, whether naturalised or not.
And it shouldn't matter if they were already citizens, because sometimes you notice that there are new immigrants who are much more assimilated and educated than ones who've been living in Europe for decades, so how many years an immigrant has spent I believe don't matter as much as how he is assimilated into a European country, traditions and culture.

[zanetti]

(01-07-2015 10:14 AM)mikado Wrote:  

you throw often the "send them back" message, but I think most of those who carry these terrorist attacks are born in the West, and have no home in their country of origin.
What you seem to propose is to create ghettos for them there? Or you just don't care, as long as they leave the borders?

Further, I don't think the classical Arab prince who's got money , bitches and alchohol will be sent there.

For me you can only carry action towards those who are NOT YET in the West, by changing immigration policies.

Some folks who immigrated here/ are born from parents who immigrated truly consider themselves as a member of their country of residence. You just cannot send them all to a country where they might even be rejected and killed, for coming from the West.

Totalitarian regimes often resort to such tactics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment