[JJ Roberts]

Horrendous news coming in from Paris.

This happened in the last hour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

Just watched the President of France turn up at the scene and give a statement.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(01-07-2015 06:55 AM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

Horrendous news coming in from Paris.

This happened in the last hour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

Just watched the President of France turn up at the scene and give a statement.

That's what happens (an extreme case no doubt) when people look to religion instead of themselves for answers to questions about their lives.
People get very irrational when they believe in a sky wizard.
To me, religion is just as dangerous for society as feminism.

[Troy Francis]

Tragic news.

[big poppa]

Jeese..

Unfortunately these sorts of things are only going to become more common.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Holy shit! That's horrible

I just hope there is no idiocy like #illridewithyou in France, especially given the huge magnitude and deliberation of this crime.

[mikado]

(01-07-2015 07:03 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 06:55 AM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

Horrendous news coming in from Paris.

This happened in the last hour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

Just watched the President of France turn up at the scene and give a statement.

That's what happens when you let a bunch of 3rd world dirtbags who worship a pedophile that died 1500 years ago come to your country and live off state benefits.
People get very irrational when they believe in a sky wizard.
To me, religion is just as dangerous for society as feminism.

Enough with the religion trolling please.
It's not like a mob constitued of a group of people shouting "In God we believe, and Muhammad is his messenger" attacked Charlie Hebdo.

First: most of people (muslim OR non muslim) did not even know there were caricatures in Charlie Hebdo.

Second: They attacked without discerning between muslims and non muslims in the building.

Third: People who live off state benefits are not only immigrants. Other "pure blood" people also live off that. And there are also immigrants who contribute, work, pay taxes, and do not even get anything substantial when they are fired, or reach age of retreat. And immigrants are not all muslims, nor muslims are all immigrants. You think that all muslims are living off the state? Bullshit.

Fourth: Muslims also have a problem with terrorism, as shown in the various schools and people destroyed/killed by the talibans and other variants of terrorism. So you decide it is cool to also insult all people who live their religion peacefully, treating them as dirtbags, and calling the Prophet a pedophile?

Please

Everyone, like Samseau can effectively question the place of religion in their motivations, and the fact that most terrorist acts are from people who call themselves muslims. This can be debated, without resorting to insulting people of the other side. And while I definitely disagree with Samseau, he most of the time doesn't plain insult Muslims. And I respect that.

Enough religion trolling please.

[JJ Roberts]

Motives behind the attack (religious or otherwise) are not clear yet.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

I should clarify. I was not intending to single Muslims out for "religious trolling". I believe all religions are equally worthless, and something that a red pill man should reject as medieval superstition.
The murder of a dozen innocent people in Paris is just an extreme example of what people who fail to take responsibility for their own lives and accept reality will do.

[mikado]

You did not do that.

You lumped them all in the same basket. Welfare suckers, zoophile and pedophile followers.

This IS religion trolling.

Now back to the topic.

[Katdogbirdduck]

(01-07-2015 07:15 AM)mikado Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 07:03 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 06:55 AM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

Horrendous news coming in from Paris.

This happened in the last hour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

Just watched the President of France turn up at the scene and give a statement.

That's what happens when you let a bunch of 3rd world dirtbags who worship a pedophile that died 1500 years ago come to your country and live off state benefits.
People get very irrational when they believe in a sky wizard.
To me, religion is just as dangerous for society as feminism.

Enough with the religion trolling please.
It's not like a mob constitued of a group of people shouting "In God we believe, and Muhammad is his messenger" attacked Charlie Hebdo.

First: most of people (muslim OR non muslim) did not even know there were caricatures in Charlie Hebdo.

Second: They attacked without discerning between muslims and non muslims in the building.

Third: People who live off state benefits are not only immigrants. Other "pure blood" people also live off that. And there are also immigrants who contribute, work, pay taxes, and do not even get anything substantial when they are fired, or reach age of retreat. And immigrants are not all muslims, nor muslims are all immigrants. You think that all muslims are living off the state? Bullshit.

Fourth: Muslims also have a problem with terrorism, as shown in the various schools and people destroyed/killed by the talibans and other variants of terrorism. So you decide it is cool to also insult all people who live their religion peacefully, treating them as dirtbags, and calling the Prophet a pedophile?

Please

Everyone, like Samseau can effectively question the place of religion in their motivations, and the fact that most terrorist acts are from people who call themselves muslims. This can be debated, without resorting to insulting people of the other side. And while I definitely disagree with Samseau, he most of the time doesn't plain insult Muslims. And I respect that.

Enough religion trolling please.

Oh please, and what about those lunatic thugs who attacked the French police recently in Christmas week in more than one city and also that maniac who crashed his car into the Christmas market?
All of them were shouting their sick slogans.

[mikado]

Open another thread if you wish to discuss it.

This thread is about Charlie Hebdo and the attack.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(01-07-2015 07:31 AM)mikado Wrote:  

You did not do that.

You lumped them all in the same basket. Welfare suckers, zoophile and pedophile followers.

This IS religion trolling.

Now back to the topic.

Fair enough, I edited my first comment.
For me the topic is religion though. This attack was almost certainly in response to some satirical article about Islam...the same place had previously been attacked for that reason.
I truly believe that society would be much better off without religion.
It has historically served a useful function as a way to control people but serves no purpose now for human advancement.

[JJ Roberts]

Death toll up to 12

[Teedub]

(01-07-2015 07:15 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Enough with the religion trolling please.
It's not like a mob constitued of a group of people shouting "In God we believe, and Muhammad is his messenger" attacked Charlie Hebdo.

Maybe not those exact words, but predictably:

Quote:

Two of the gunmen were dressed in typical jihadist "uniform" of black balaclavas, khaki ammunition pouches and were armed with Kalashnikovs, the BBC's Frank Gardner reports. They were heard shouting "Allahu Akbar".

Source

[Bushido]

Terrible tragedy. Until now the French had seemed to get off relatively lighter with its "moderate" Muslims from North Africa, compared to the UK etc.

This is clearly retribution for the magazine's satire about Islam and daring to draw Muhammed in cartoon form (see here for examples: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=charli...imgdii=_).

"Don't insult Muhammed or you will pay the price" seems to be the message from this attack. The French are quite tolerant of different cultures and religions, but one thing is clear. They don't like being told what to do.

What will the reaction be from the French this time? I predict a large swing to the right. The Front National will unfortunately receive a big boost from this.

Edit: All the photos on the magazine's wikipedia entry have been mysteriously taken down.

[mikado]

(01-07-2015 07:46 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 07:15 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Enough with the religion trolling please.
It's not like a mob constitued of a group of people shouting "In God we believe, and Muhammad is his messenger" attacked Charlie Hebdo.

Maybe not those exact words, but predictably:

Quote:

Two of the gunmen were dressed in typical jihadist "uniform" of black balaclavas, khaki ammunition pouches and were armed with Kalashnikovs, the BBC's Frank Gardner reports. They were heard shouting "Allahu Akbar".

Source

Lol, of course I expected them to have said so.
My point is more that these guys are either loners, or belong to some terrorist group. But it's not like a LARGE GROUP , like 1000 muslim people, went ahead with them to Charlie Hebdo, or encouraged them. Large majority of people of Islam confession just DGAF about anything outside their own life.

The guys who did this are scumbags, yes. But why should I, along with other muslim people who did not even know about caricatures, and would not even have given a fuck otherwise, be grouped with these 2 guys?
His post implied that we were all complices in this situation.



@dreambig: yes, the Front National will be on the 2nd tour. However French society is not ready yet to give the presidency. But probably the Assembly will grant them a relative majority.

[rottenapple]

The germans are manifesting against islam in huge numbers, I can see the same happening now in France. Difficult times for muslims and the media coverage of IS won't make things better.

[bojangles]

They were muslim and it was done in the name of Islam, just like those other attacks in France recently.

[alphaspiraton]

(01-07-2015 07:15 AM)mikado Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 07:03 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 06:55 AM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

Horrendous news coming in from Paris.

This happened in the last hour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

Just watched the President of France turn up at the scene and give a statement.

That's what happens when you let a bunch of 3rd world dirtbags who worship a pedophile that died 1500 years ago come to your country and live off state benefits.
People get very irrational when they believe in a sky wizard.
To me, religion is just as dangerous for society as feminism.

Enough with the religion trolling please.
It's not like a mob constitued of a group of people shouting "In God we believe, and Muhammad is his messenger" attacked Charlie Hebdo.

First: most of people (muslim OR non muslim) did not even know there were caricatures in Charlie Hebdo.

Second: They attacked without discerning between muslims and non muslims in the building.

Third: People who live off state benefits are not only immigrants. Other "pure blood" people also live off that. And there are also immigrants who contribute, work, pay taxes, and do not even get anything substantial when they are fired, or reach age of retreat. And immigrants are not all muslims, nor muslims are all immigrants. You think that all muslims are living off the state? Bullshit.

Fourth: Muslims also have a problem with terrorism, as shown in the various schools and people destroyed/killed by the talibans and other variants of terrorism. So you decide it is cool to also insult all people who live their religion peacefully, treating them as dirtbags, and calling the Prophet a pedophile?

Please

Everyone, like Samseau can effectively question the place of religion in their motivations, and the fact that most terrorist acts are from people who call themselves muslims. This can be debated, without resorting to insulting people of the other side. And while I definitely disagree with Samseau, he most of the time doesn't plain insult Muslims. And I respect that.

Enough religion trolling please.

It is quite a shame. I was starting to like posts by VolandoVengoVolandoVoy. But that religious trolling.

This is supposed to be a game forum but lately the Everything Else section has been filled with nothing but Jezebel-esque articles for men, with equally bad commentary fueled by personal hate toward a large group of people stemming from personal insecurities.

[Brotein]

I train with some Muslim guys and one thing that is very clear is that you should not make fun of Islam or their culture or they will lose their shit. They are all tough as hell (chechens).

This is a clash of cultures: millenial liberal westerners poking the most aggressive high T men on the face of the planet. Attack their religion or culture and you can expect a fight on your hands.

I am an atheist and a tough dude, but I step around this topic when talking to them.

[Phoenix]

Just remember, it is not so important that a bunch of innocent people got killed, for merely saying unlikeable things, as to necessitate implying that it was in any way linked to anybody else. No particular group, religious or otherwise, is in anyway driving these attacks at it's fringes, and any statistical correlation or clear ideological causal links should be disregarded.

Even when this happens again, that will merely signal that we need more "dialog" and "understanding". At no point should ideologically-driven, professionally-done murder signal that we should develop animosity towards any particular group who appears to be linked, or that we should "blame" anybody. Deaths are a mere triviality in the grand scheme of "acceptance" and "tolerance".

Just like when representatives of the more militant arm of the Japanese nation bombed Pearl Harbor to smithereens, the American public recognized that this was the mere acts of "extremists", and responded with #airuraiduwibuyuuuu tweets and preached the need for community and understanding. It was far more important that the reputation and respect for Japanese people generally was maintained, and ideas of "enemies" and "counterattacks" were dismissed as racist and bigoted diatribe. The idea that ordinary Japanese that were not directly part of this extremist wing, could be hurt because of such behaviour, was attacked as abhorrent and backwards-thinking. Eventually the Japanese nation saw the error of it's ways, changed itself internally, and violent and deadly attacks ceased.

/sarcasm

[sixsix]

***(I am unfamiliar with the exact reasons for recent closing of previous threads on religion, so please inform me about what's deemed acceptable discourse and what's not. I am a very critical person myself and love dispassionate, facts-over-emotion discussions on controversial topics.)***

This attack is about religion. That doesn't mean anyone is saying all religion is about violent attacks.

To understand what's happening we can't close our eyes to ugly truths. We don't do that when it concerns feminism or marxism, and we shouldn't abandon the red pill when it comes to religion.

Multiple attacks by radical muslims have occurred very recently. In France and in Australia we've seen young men going on a killing spree or trying to. This is soon after Islamic State has ordered their brothers world wide to start a terror campaign.

Why is this important?

Many people in the West are fucking scared that we have the enemy living among us. Millions of muslims live in France, in Germany, in Holland, et cetera, and integration has been a joke. While many, mostly young girls, are succeeding in our systems, many of the young men are not. And this frustration is very dangerous.

The concerns of our populations have been ignored, and people that dare to speak up were labeled as racist. This growing concern - I'll leave it to you whether it's justified or not - will have enormous impact on Western societies. We see populist, right-wing political parties gaining traction.

Seeing that everything-is-racist and everything-is-sexist are both marxist propaganda to shut down debate, to silence either the normal people or the men, and to prevent people from fighting their exploitation, I don't understand why so many people here freak out about the discussion.

To truth!

[mikado]

(01-07-2015 08:02 AM)Brotein Wrote:  

I train with some Muslim guys and one thing that is very clear is that you should not make fun of Islam or their culture or they will lose their shit. They are all tough as hell (chechens).

This is a clash of cultures: millenial liberal westerners poking the most aggressive high T men on the face of the planet. Attack their religion or culture and you can expect a fight on your hands.

I am an atheist and a tough dude, but I step around this topic when talking to them.

Their perception of religion amplifies their agressivity, yes, but it's not the sole reason. I think it's a combination of religion, poverty, not getting laid, supremacist and cultural roots that makes them go wild. Even in Middle East, richer guys DGAF about jihad or islamism. Same in Africa. On the other hand, those who have nothing to rely on , except religion, go apeshit effectively when you criticize their religion, or even religious confrery ( in my country, there are some confreries, and among them, one is notorious for going crazy when you say something bad against the founder, even if you are also muslim, because they believe they are chosen among the chosen ,even among the Muslims).

This is why for me, chastizing Islam publicly will not change much the dynamic. Moderate ones will still be moderate and not lift a single finger, because they mostly DGAF. extremists will be MORE extremists.



@Sixsix and Phoenix

You have some arguments. For me, the solution is in priviledging again a "good immigration", aka talented and intelligent people. Most immigrants who had good grades, emigrated to the West to finish their studies are looking to contribute positively. Those should be the most people who are allowed to stay.

[Constitution45]

Very nasty business, makes me wonder what repercussions there will be for the media class in general. If anything these small but brutal attacks that have been happening over France in the recent months are more disconcerting than the rare larger scale attack that would take place maybe once or twice every decade. As its more constant and becomes normalised.

This could be a no win situation, the government and media will most likely bury their heads in the sand, much like what happened after the Woolwich killing, instead focusing on unity of all peoples in the country. But this will just fuel people wanting to take matters in their own hands, by voting for Le Pen, or other such movements. Especially as it was journalists being wiped out and an established business being attacked, you could see a fair number of them, gradually begin to switch allegiances.

[amity]

Already starting to see the #notinmyname trending on Twitter.
This is the kneejerk, deluded, head in the sand, refusing to deal with the issue, nonsense, that the left specialises in.