[Truth Teller]

Europe drove out Christianity. While Christianity certainly wasn't perfect, it helped build the European empires.

With the death of Christianity has come Islam. Islam will eliminate everything the "liberal, progressive" SJW class holds dear. We'll see how "liberal" and "tolerant" these people are when they're told to submit to Islam at gunpoint.

As for the United States, what is there to actually fight for anymore? World War II, we fought for democracy. What will we fight for now? Starbucks, Twitter, and Netflix?

Some things are worth fighting for. Consumerism isn't.

[TigerMandingo]

(01-07-2015 09:44 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Remove citizenship of everyone who declares himself Muslim?

Yes.

[Sonsowey]

(01-07-2015 10:28 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

Some things are worth fighting for. Consumerism isn't.

I think Consumerism will do just fine in the U.S. The forces behind it are powerful enough to keep it going.

[mikado]

(01-07-2015 10:17 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

^^ Mikado, your English is excellent but you misunderstand me and not for the first time. I'm not advocating the above policy. That is the policy of many of the extreme right parties.

Well, I am not speaking directly to you, but more in a general sense, to those on the forum ( on this very topic !! ) who advocate this.

To El Chinito Loco: using that as an example to demonstrate why Islam is evil does not hold its own. Christianity did that too, when they would reach a new territory.
Actually, everytime a power invaded a country, the same happened. So that point is moot.

To Cuninlinguist: good luck with that.
Will not happen before ages.

[Erasmus]

(01-07-2015 10:06 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

Extreme right parties would probably want to repatriate anyone of Arab/Muslim descent to the Middle East by force. The British could conceivably send 3rd generation Pakistanis to Pakistan, despite them having British passports.

Very unlikely to happen but never say never if the true extremists take power one day. If you think the above is extreme, just check out the BNP manifesto. Their policy used to be to send blacks back to Africa.

I fear for worse. Historically europeans are the most agressive and the most successful at war. Take lots of europeans with feelings of hatred, fear, lust for war, erosion of their culture, displacement in their own ancestral homelands, etc, combine that with muslims that largely live in urban ghetto's with no control or power over foodsupplies, roads, airports, etc. And you have the stage for a massive slaughter. I hope to whatever god exists that that can be averted. But I fear for the worst

[mikado]

There will be a gathering in my town, in 1h30 approximatively

[Erasmus]

(01-07-2015 10:28 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

Islam will eliminate everything the "liberal, progressive" SJW class holds dear.

You are right for the wrong reasons. The european struggle against Islam will eliminate liberal, progressive SJW's, not Islam itself.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-07-2015 10:42 AM)Erasmus Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 10:28 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

Islam will eliminate everything the "liberal, progressive" SJW class holds dear.

You are right for the wrong reasons. The european struggle against Islam will eliminate liberal, progressive SJW's, not Islam itself.

Both of them will. Which ever side wins, the liberal SJW way of life will be crushed.

And then it will return when things are safe enough for people to have free time/energy for self hatred and ignorance again.

[Old Fritz]

I was told that if there is another world war; it will be over something relating to the Middle East and Islam.

• No end to the Syrian civil war. Some people believe this will become the next Somalia and I agree
• The ongoing proxy conflicts between Saudia Arabia and Iran (Shia vs Sunni)
• People underestimating the Muslim Brotherhood threa
• Our own President (Obama) appeasing Islam rather than confronting it directly
• Australia hostage crisis
• The rate of rape going up significantly in Europe; especially in the Scandinavian countries
• Attacks like these happening more and more
• Heightened political correctness to shut out people from debating about it
• Iran will likely get the nuclear bombs
• Right wing parties gaining more popularity
• The Kurdish situation still unresolved
• Turkey becoming more Islamic. Erdogan disrespecting the EU on seveal occasions and even spreading his own propaganda. Why is Turkey still in NATO?
• Liberals and SJW's everywhere and their heads in the sand.
• Economic warfare still currently going on. Possible economic collapse coming in the near future
• Iraq still unresolved
  

There is more I haven't mentioned but you get the idea. This isn't good. Another Adolf Hitler could easily rise out of several of these European countries.

Sure, I am happy to see the downfall of these so called liberal progressives but we all know what is coming next.

[berserk]

(01-07-2015 10:44 AM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

I was told that if there is another world war; it will be over something relating to the Middle East and Islam.

• No end to the Syrian civil war. Some people believe this will become the next Somalia and I agree
• The ongoing proxy conflicts between Saudia Arabia and Iran (Shia vs Sunni)
• People underestimating the Muslim Brotherhood threa
• Our own President (Obama) appeasing Islam rather than confronting it directly
• Australia hostage crisis
• The rate of rape going up significantly in Europe; especially in the Scandinavian countries
• Attacks like these happening more and more
• Heightened political correctness to shut out people from debating about it
• Iran will likely get the nuclear bombs
• Right wing parties gaining more popularity
• The Kurdish situation still unresolved
• Turkey becoming more Islamic. Erdogan disrespecting the EU on seveal occasions and even spreading his own propaganda. Why is Turkey still in NATO?
• Liberals and SJW's everywhere and their heads in the sand.
• Economic warfare still currently going on. Possible economic collapse coming in the near future
• Iraq still unresolved
  

There is more I haven't mentioned but you get the idea. This isn't good

Don't mix things together.

European 'nationalists' do not want war in the ME and will not allow their cause to be hijacked by warmongering neocons.

[Old Fritz]

(01-07-2015 10:47 AM)berserk Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 10:44 AM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

I was told that if there is another world war; it will be over something relating to the Middle East and Islam.

• No end to the Syrian civil war. Some people believe this will become the next Somalia and I agree
• The ongoing proxy conflicts between Saudia Arabia and Iran (Shia vs Sunni)
• People underestimating the Muslim Brotherhood threa
• Our own President (Obama) appeasing Islam rather than confronting it directly
• Australia hostage crisis
• The rate of rape going up significantly in Europe; especially in the Scandinavian countries
• Attacks like these happening more and more
• Heightened political correctness to shut out people from debating about it
• Iran will likely get the nuclear bombs
• Right wing parties gaining more popularity
• The Kurdish situation still unresolved
• Turkey becoming more Islamic. Erdogan disrespecting the EU on seveal occasions and even spreading his own propaganda. Why is Turkey still in NATO?
• Liberals and SJW's everywhere and their heads in the sand.
• Economic warfare still currently going on. Possible economic collapse coming in the near future
• Iraq still unresolved
  

There is more I haven't mentioned but you get the idea. This isn't good

Don't mix things together.

European 'nationalists' do not want war in the ME and will not allow their cause to be hijacked by warmongering neocons.

We'll see what happens. But the stage is already being set for something really bad to happen. With something Islam related being at the center of it.

[berserk]

(01-07-2015 10:51 AM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

We'll see what happens. But the stage is already being set for something really bad to happen. With something Islam related being at the center of it.

No, that has already taken place with the cold war against Russia.

Russia and Iran are the current targets of American neo-cons and they have been the targets since the US first elected the Bush admin.

Europeans do not want war in the ME. Europeans, as seen with France recognizing Palestine, are not behind Israel as the US public opinion is and therefore most prefer to let the ME be the ME, as long as it doesn't affect them.

[POASTER]

Terrorist attacks are always done by Sunni (of Salafi persuasion) Arabs/South Asians/Somalians. Salafism is funded by the Saudis. They publish books and distribute them around the Muslim world.

Iranians of Shi'a background never do this stuff, they tend to be chill bros who create and post on sexual forums. Even that one Iranian guy in Australia , he renounced Shiism and converted to radical political Salafi Islam before going to Australia, that's why he was kicked out of Iran.

[Quintus Curtius]

Europe fatally weakened itself in the 19th and 20th centuries, and left itself helpless in the face of a militant, disciplined, foreign religion (Islam). I say this with no hostility towards Islam. I have studied its language for many years and have deep respect for its traditions.

But the reality is that, as Scorpion has said, Islam is fundamentally incompatible with European Christendom. This does not mean that they can't coexist side-by-side in harmony. They can, and have done so for many centuries. But what is happening now is different.

Sclerotic European governments have allowed pockets of insurrection and separatism to fester in their midst. Squalid ghettoes of immigrants who cannot--or will not-assimilate are proving to be an undigestible problem. This is a problem that will not go away.

At the same time, Europeans have abandoned their own religious traditions. The great cathedrals of Rheims, Cologne, and Paris are like empty tombs, quietly respected but ignored. The average person has no belief in anything except his own venal pleasure. The Church itself has contributed to this decline by compromising on one thing after another, to the point that no one knows what it believes in any more.

Islam is a strong, muscular, masculine religion. It needs an equally effective counterweight. If there is none, it will dominate. This is the reality, obvious to anyone who actually knows the language and history of the Middle East.

In the past, Christianity did fight back. The pope used to participate in the defense of Europe by organizing military orders or religious orders to combat these things.

Instead of whining about world peace as Christians in the Middle East get massacred by ISIS, the pope should do the following without delay:

1. Campaign for the formation of a military order equally fanatical as ISIS (a modern form of the Knights Templar, Hospitaller, etc.)
2. Do everything possible to invigorate the Church and its doctrines by appealing to a new generation in relevant ways.
3. Initiate a massive campaign to educate the young on Christian religious traditions and history, including the mandatory institution of the Latin language.

I recognize some of these proposals sound like the lunatic fringe. But a fanatical opponent requires a fanatical response.

ISIS knows what it believes in.

Do you?

[Erasmus]

(01-07-2015 10:55 AM)berserk Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 10:51 AM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

We'll see what happens. But the stage is already being set for something really bad to happen. With something Islam related being at the center of it.

No, that has already taken place with the cold war against Russia.

Russia and Iran are the current targets of American neo-cons and they have been the targets since the US first elected the Bush admin.

Europeans do not want war in the ME. Europeans, as seen with France recognizing Palestine, are not behind Israel as the US public opinion is and therefore most prefer to let the ME be the ME, as long as it doesn't affect them.

Moreover, I think a war with Russia would not go down well with the european public.

[lskdfjldsf]

I'm honestly considering moving back to the US.

I can put up with a higher proportion of shitty women, I can put up with a higher proportion of fat people, but I can no longer put up with a higher proportion of sixth century fanatics turning my ancestral homeland into a third world Islamic shithole.

Mikado and others on these forums who integrated well and contributed to society, you have my respect, and you always have a place to crash if this all heads south and the U.S. would be a safe haven from it. But this is your community and the work needs to come from you, or Europeans on the street are going to take this all into their own hands, and it will only end with blood.

[CJ_W]

(01-07-2015 09:56 AM)ryansoldat Wrote:  

Quote:

My question is:
how would you conduct that war?

Remove citizenship of everyone who declares himself Muslim?
I don't think that would be really constitutionnal to ask someone to mandatorily specify his/her religion.

And besides that: who exactly are you all going to attack? I see the word war thrown often, but a war against who? which country? Where?

There is no solution.

Oh, there are solutions, but none of those solutions are pretty in the curent "Modern World" You'd need to look back at what Spain did hundreds of years ago to find the "Solution"

Thing is, the current modern world is crumbling bit by bit, especially in Europe, and if this keeps happening, no matter what people say is "right" or "wrong" some of those solutions will be acted upon anyway.

If I were Muslim, and lived in Europe right now, I would either

a)change my name
b)find some way to practice my religion in secret (Christians had to do this at some points in history I believe)
c)get out of Europe(or work towards that) and try to find a country that doesn't have much of a Problem with Muslim extremists, like Canada, or even NZ (Not Australia)

I really don't think this anti-musilm sentiment is going to end peacefully. Yes it would be nice if it did, but too many people are unwilling to:

1)assimilate to the culture of the country they just moved to - or at least not try to force their views on the natives of that country.

2)Give up their natives rights and expectations (free speech, application of Sharia law etc) in favor of the immigrants who demand this.

This is not going to end pretty, especially since the SJW's will, for a time - a very short time, defend the muslim population in their countries.

This is why MLK wanted to preach Non-Violence during the civil rights movement, its not much of a comparison since there's a LOT of differences between the black population of jim-crow era U.S. and the Muslim populations of current - day Europe.

The blacks of that era would be justified in their violence, but that would make it ten times worse, as the retaliation would have been swift and brutal

The muslim population, or rather those who resort to violence and claim to speak for all muslims, while the muslim population of these countries are pretty much doing nothing to stop this, really are not justifiable in the eyes of the native populations(already mentioned why). In fact, retaliation against muslim communities and populations probably seems justifiable to MANY members of the native populations of these countries, even if they say otherwise in public.

This is the real danger. I don't see any forseable "peaceful" solution to these problems going forward. Especially given out not so glorious history. So yes it might be nice to try to challenge people on the forums by asking the "tough" questions to which the answers you KNOW are answers that these same members won't admit to. It's another thing entirely to expect the native populations of the countries that have these issues to be challenged like that. . .

Most people are stupid and simply act on emotion, enough of that spreads and you have a lot of trouble on your hands. The members of RvF are different from the masses of people that deal with this situation, and those "tough questions" daily. RvF members pretty much have to be "In the world, but not OF the world"


The only way I see this calming down is for a rapid and radical change in the muslim communities along with immediate action by the communites to "avenge the killed people by exacting that vengeance on the murderers. . .AND their families! Yes it's definitely not pretty, but again France/Europe isn't full of RvFers. They'd basically have to act extremely uncivilized to calm the anger that is definitely brewing. (of course I don't see this happening, obviously but yeah.)

(01-07-2015 11:02 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Europe fatally weakened itself in the 19th and 20th centuries, and left itself helpless in the face of a militant, disciplined, foreign religion (Islam). I say this with no hostility towards Islam. I have studied its language for many years and have deep respect for its traditions.

I see what you're getting at but I would say that after the Depression, Europe was in a similar position, and they pulled it together in scary ways, I think Europe is as weak as you say but just as weak as they were back before ww2

[turkishcandy]

(01-07-2015 10:44 AM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

[*]Turkey becoming more Islamic. Erdogan disrespecting the EU on seveal occasions and even spreading his own propaganda. Why is Turkey still in NATO?

Turkey is not becoming more Islamic, this is like saying Russia is becoming more Orthodox. Political Islam in Turkey started and died in 1990s with a military intervention. Turkey is becoming more and more conservative as Erdogan is using the religion card as the easiest way to secure his voters and crush the democrats. But I can assure you that that Erdogan's agenda is not Islamist. Even so, Turkey will always be against the radical Islam that's making Europe crumble because there is no anti-West movement in Turkey (that died in 80s too). Turkish voters will always vote for whoever improves the economy, no matter how much he hurts the country in other ways, and the economy, getting more liberal and privatized every day, is strictly tied to the relations with the West.

Erdogan disrespecting EU is again a political move. For decades whichever government that took promising steps towards EU gained the public's support. Erdogan now knows that he will never get Turkey in EU as the public wants, so now he's trashing EU in order to kill the demand in public to join EU. He's also targeting the Arab investors and trying to organize a financial opposition against EU.

Turkey is still in NATO because Turkey is still an indispensable ally to USA. USA can't afford to lose Turkey due to its geopolitical importance (between Europe, Russia and the Middle East shithole).

[britchard]

I feel that Muslims need to do more to renounce and stop these attacks happening in the first place.

Sure, white people murder too, but in the name of religion? No.

[Old Fritz]

(01-07-2015 11:10 AM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 10:44 AM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

[*]Turkey becoming more Islamic. Erdogan disrespecting the EU on seveal occasions and even spreading his own propaganda. Why is Turkey still in NATO?

Turkey is not becoming more Islamic, this is like saying Russia is becoming more Orthodox. Political Islam in Turkey started and died in 1990s with a military intervention. Turkey is becoming more and more conservative as Erdogan is using the religion card as the easiest way to secure his voters and crush the democrats. But I can assure you that that Erdogan's agenda is not Islamist. Even so, Turkey will always be against the radical Islam that's making Europe crumble because there is no anti-West movement in Turkey (that died in 80s too). Turkish voters will always vote for whoever improves the economy, no matter how much he hurts the country in other ways, and the economy, getting more liberal and privatized every day, is strictly tied to the relations with the West.

Erdogan disrespecting EU is again a political move. For decades whichever government that took promising steps towards EU gained the public's support. Erdogan now knows that he will never get Turkey in EU as the public wants, so now he's trashing EU in order to kill the demand in public to join EU. He's also targeting the Arab investors and trying to organize a financial opposition against EU.

Turkey is still in NATO because Turkey is still an indispensable ally to USA. USA can't afford to lose Turkey due to its geopolitical importance (between Europe, Russia and the Middle East shithole).

I understand. Thanks for clearing some of those things up. It still concerns me a bit though. Glad turkey won't be in the EU.

[xpatplayer]

There's a lot of generalization in this thread. The problem in Europe isn't Islam; its radical and fundamentalist Islam.

The issue in Europe is generalization once again. If Mehmet from Ankara is a professor with a PhD in mathematics who has integrated into society well, it is assumed that Bashir, a cab driver who dropped out of high school, will do equally well, just because he is a Muslim too.

Any attack on the uneducated, fundamentalist immigrants is seen as an attack on the educated ones who have made a good, integrated life into society. This is nonsense - why are you allowing unskilled laborers whi don't know the language into your country, just because you have allowed skilled, educated ones in the past?

Europe needs to reevaluate its unskilled immigration policy. My suggestion is to stop importing unskilled immigrants from the Middle East. They have shown a propensity for violence and an unwillingness to adjust. Look towards China, SEA and Latin America instead.

[mikado]

(01-07-2015 11:03 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

I'm honestly considering moving back to the US.

I can put up with a higher proportion of shitty women, I can put up with a higher proportion of fat people, but I can no longer put up with a higher proportion of sixth century fanatics turning my ancestral homeland into a third world Islamic shithole.

Mikado and others on these forums who integrated well and contributed to society, you have my respect, and you always have a place to crash if this all heads south and the U.S. would be a safe haven from it. But this is your community and the work needs to come from you, or Europeans on the street are going to take this all into their own hands, and it will only end with blood.

I agree with you.
However, who's gonna take the first step, and step outside the internet protestations? Like, become a real muslim figure , and rally the moderate muslims who are sick of the current figures who sit on their ass and never do anything?

I , humbly, admit that I am not 100% ready to get myself public and become a huge activist.

The major reason is that I do not have yet officially the french citizenship - on the way, yes, but it's not done deal yet. My say will not ring enough in the French's head because I am not French yet. So I am limited in how much I can do right now.

The movement has to come from the youth, for sure. Because it's essentially young muslims who go terrorist.

This is why for the moment, I focus on propaging red pill ideas, because this is the only battle in which my say counts.

[Saladin]

I'm not sure where I stand on the whole "Islam is incompatible with Western civilization" issue.

The fact is that Saudi Arabia has been pushing a radical form of Islam for a while now, which is why Islam is becoming more and more radical.

Then there is another side of Islam which you see in countries like Indonesia, where tons of the population fuck around, drink, smoke and follow Islam in a loose manner in the same way Westerners follow Christianity today. That side of Islam is slowly losing out to the more radical forms.

In any case, I'm not knowledgeable enough to concretely hold an opinion on whether Islam and secularism can exist. The fact is, there were times when the West was barbaric compared to the Islamic world, and vise versa today. Heck, If Evangelical Christians held power in America, we'd all be back in the stone age.

I don't like religion in particular though.

However, I do believe that letting in tons of poor Muslim immigrants into your country is a horrible idea. That has to stop now.

I've had bad experience with Somalians before in Toronto when chilling with a girl(they literally tried to swarm her and kidnap her and I had to call cops).... poor Muslim immigrants from countries like Somalia have no respect for women AT ALL. Its a pattern I've seen many times over.

And shit, I don't mean respect in the sense that feminists do, I mean it in the sense that you don't try to rape women or anything of that sort.

[lskdfjldsf]

(01-07-2015 11:19 AM)xpatplayer Wrote:  

Europe needs to reevaluate its unskilled immigration policy. My suggestion is to stop importing unskilled immigrants from the Middle East. They have shown a propensity for violence and an unwillingness to adjust. Look towards China, SEA and Latin America instead.

This is impossible, because the acceptance of refugees - who are typically the least educated and poorest - is considered a human right by EU law. Most countries within the EU also have constitutions with similar statutes, for example in Germany, it's considered a "Menschenpflicht" or human obligation.

[Saladin]

(01-07-2015 11:19 AM)xpatplayer Wrote:  

There's a lot of generalization in this thread. The problem in Europe isn't Islam; its radical and fundamentalist Islam.

The issue in Europe is generalization once again. If Mehmet from Ankara is a professor with a PhD in mathematics who has integrated into society well, it is assumed that Bashir, a cab driver who dropped out of high school, will do equally well, just because he is a Muslim too.

Any attack on the uneducated, fundamentalist immigrants is seen as an attack on the educated ones who have made a good, integrated life into society. This is nonsense - why are you allowing unskilled laborers whi don't know the language into your country, just because you have allowed skilled, educated ones in the past?

Europe needs to reevaluate its unskilled immigration policy. My suggestion is to stop importing unskilled immigrants from the Middle East. They have shown a propensity for violence and an unwillingness to adjust. Look towards China, SEA and Latin America instead.

Good post. Educated Muslim immigrants who are high earners rarely cause trouble.