Quote: (12-07-2011 10:55 PM)gringochileno Wrote:
Adderall turns you into a focusing machine for 4 hours but yeah, it's basically meth and it's addictive. I've heard good things about monafidil (Provigil), apparently it's popular among college professors who use it to improve their research and get ahead of their colleagues.
Quote: (06-09-2012 09:37 PM)ImWaitingForTheMan Wrote:I think this might be a data sheet by itself if I cite the sources I have. Would it be possible to change this to its own thread and then I can gather my links. I can also delve a little deeper into why it works, such as the specific ways it enhance synaptic communication between neurons. If a forum MOD could get back to me about this it would be greatly appreciated.
Choline+Uridine+Fish Oil(Omega
This is without a doubt the best natural combination brain booster out, and it has reasonably hard science behind it, as hard as you'll be liking to find as the field of cognitive enhancement is in its absolute infancy.
N-3(also known as Omega-3) Fatty acids, are far and away the most essential ingredient in this triple threat combo. The Only two of these fatty acids you want are EPA(Eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA(Docosahexaenoic acid). What people don't realize is that you need WAY more than an extra strength fish oil tablet to get the cognitive benefits, though you may still get the heart/cholesterol benefits from just a recommended serving. You need at least 3 Grams of combined EPA/DHA to get the cognitive/mood benefits. Always make sure the fish oil you buy states exactly how much EPA/DHA is in each serving, as those are the only two ingredient you are concerned with. Watch out for the serving size, sometimes they say each serving is 2 gel capsules, so do your math accordingly. When purchasing fish oil, shoot for the ones that say they are purified to remove mercury. From what I've read the mercury in fish stays in their meat/protein for the most part, so whatever makes it into the oil is negligible and then purified. This is probably safer than eating 5-6 servings of fish a week regarding mercury intake anyways.
Keep in mind, some evidences suggests it is the ratio of n-3 fatty acids to n-6 that garners more neurocognitive improvement. This means you want to try to get more of your fats from EPA/DHA than all the rest.
alpha-Linolenic acid: This is another Omega-3 fatty acid. This is not useful for increasing brain function/mood. This is because it eventually gets converted to EPA and then DHA, but at an extremely non efficient conversion rate. What this is useful for is helping you get a better n-3/n-6 fatty acid ratio. Ideally in today's world you would want N-3/N-6 to be at a 1:1 ratio. With all the shitty fats they throw at us cheaply, if you can get your N-3/N-6 ratio at 1:2, that is one hell of an accomplishment. So what you want is Flax Oil supplements which have tons of alpha-Linolenic acid. No adverse effects from these in my usage, cheap over the counter. This way alpha-Linolenic acid can enter into competition at substrate binding since on enzymes that catalyze reactions with both n-3 and n-6 fatty acids(such as both of the cyclooxygenase isoforms. The n-6 fatty acids produce a lot more inflammation than n-3's and are not preferentially incorporated into brain membrane phosphatides like EPA and DHA are. Sorry for the length, I've kept this in layman's terms as much as possible.
The getting on a proper n-3 regimen will provide around 70% of the cognitive and mood enhancing benefits alone.
Uridine: This is a nucleoside that is also part of the cycle that builds brain membrane phosphatides (for those so inclined it is called the Kennedy Cycle) Basically the brain enzymes that build membrane phosphatides and incorporate them into brain cells, most notably the synapses where neurons communicate with one another, (Thought to be the site targeted for enhancement by these supplements.)increase how fast they make the new structural components of brain cells. This is because they have a low affinity for these substrates(Uridine, Choline, EPA/DHA). Basically if you put more of this stuff in, you get more out, allowing brain cells to be much more versatile and have greater plasticity. There is also a secondary mechanism due to stimulation of one of the subtypes of purinergic receptors that aids in synaptogenesis.
Uridine accounts for roughly 20%
Unfortunately Uridine is a bit expensive and it has to be ordered from a special online store. There are a few and I don't recommend any of them over another as I have only tried one once. When I purchased it back in December it was roughly $50 for 25 grams. The ideal dose for me was 1g/day split into two 500mg. If you have all the other components of this trifecta on lock, you can get by with 500mg-750mg a day to save dough.
Choline: (in the bitartrate form): Cheap as hell. I just picked up some today from GNC. $8.50 for 100 250mg tablets. I take 4 (1 gram) a day so this is a 25 day supply. Choline is another building block of brain membrane phospatides, so you get how this goes by now. We add each piece of the puzzle to complete the trifecta.
Choline accounts for perhaps 10% of the benefit alone.
If all of these supplements are combined, their whole is greater than the sum of each of their parts. Saturating the Kennedy Cycle enzymes along each step to creating the components of brain cells has additive effects.
I tried this full out with exactly the right dosages for about two months, then had to stop because I was too broke to afford the Uridine. While I was on it I felt incredibly clear headed, learning even 400 level math classes at university was a breeze.(Granted, they are not hard for me anyway, I just need to put a bit of studying in and pay attention in class.) But after about 4 weeks on this regimen I didn't need to really pay attention in class, taking notes went out the window. I just ended up bring some leisure reading in and half paying attention. I actually did better than before. The best part about it was that my mood felt so calm. On a 1-10 scale with 1 being ready to kill yourself and 10 full-blown mania, I never went below a 6. I was able to be happier when situations warranted it also.
Keep in mind, it takes at least 4 months before high dose EPA/DHA can kick in, so this is no quick fix, but once you get there it is worth it. All of these things are foods, you are just taking a larger amount
Quote:Quote:
if it happened to you it’s your fault, I got no sympathy and I don’t believe your version of events.
Quote: (06-10-2012 07:21 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:
All of the "natural" supplements are complete bs.
They should be regulated, which would result in most being banned and their employees prosecuted for fraud.
They can give you a powerful placebo effect though.
As for what actually works and is sustainable - look to medical students and residents. These are intelligent people who study the human body for a living, have to perform at a very high level for long hours and maintain focus, so if there is anything, they would know and use it.
I know several of these people. The majority don't take anything beyond coffee, and focus on maintaining focus and energy levels through diet, exercise, and sleep.
Some will take adderall or vyvanse for short periods of time during major exams, but again, taking these in higher doses for longer periods can cause serious problems.
Others will take Provigil(modafinil), which can help you stay up and/or adjust your sleep cycle during shifting work hours, but it doesn't work well for some people.
Anways, it's been a fun vent, nice to get that out of my system. I can't stand people who pretend to be experts on things so they can make the most absolutely ignorant generalizations.
Quote: (06-10-2012 08:31 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:I will be willing to bet money that the percentage of med students that have borderline personality disorder is lower than average compared to America as a whole.
I reiterate my point about med students and residents. They are some of the most competitive, single minded people you can meet, and a number have borderline personality disorders.
If it would give them even the slightest edge, there are a good 10% or more who would do just about anything, from cocaine to tree frog venom to chugging horse piss in the morning.
So if they don't do it, it doesn't work.
57% of these people admit they would eat a poop hotdog to get into their first choice school:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1007
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:40 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:The med school thing was just to illustrate that I've been there and know people that go there, so in that area we are equal. I don't give a shit about my personal experiences, and you actually have none, except hanging out with some students? You have come to a completely erroneous conclusion that all supplements are worthless. It's so extreme and absolute that it's ignorant.
You making an excessively long post about your travails of a year of medical school do not make you the RVF resident science expert.
Just as in professional cycling, where people are insanely competitive and will take anything that actually works, so it goes for med students and residents. Think about this scientifically - across the 140 or so AMA schools, students take a wide variety of different vitamins and jellyfish powders to make their neurons dance faster. However, regardless of the school or student or geographical location, their is a clear and consistent use of a handful of relevant substances: caffeine, prescription amphetamines and amphetamine analogues, and modafinil.
This has nothing to do with the taste, color, labeling, or fashionability of the aforementioned three. It has to do with their consistent and reliable and reproducible results.
I am always open to being wrong. If you can provide any reliable, double blind, randomized studies for a specific supplement for a specific malady/ailment, I would be glad to see them.
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:40 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:
You making an excessively long post about your travails of a year of medical school do not make you the RVF resident science expert.
Just as in professional cycling, where people are insanely competitive and will take anything that actually works, so it goes for med students and residents. Think about this scientifically - across the 140 or so AMA schools, students take a wide variety of different vitamins and jellyfish powders to make their neurons dance faster. However, regardless of the school or student or geographical location, their is a clear and consistent use of a handful of relevant substances: caffeine, prescription amphetamines and amphetamine analogues, and modafinil.
This has nothing to do with the taste, color, labeling, or fashionability of the aforementioned three. It has to do with their consistent and reliable and reproducible results.
I am always open to being wrong. If you can provide any reliable, double blind, randomized studies for a specific supplement for a specific malady/ailment, I would be glad to see them.
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:48 AM)ImWaitingForTheMan Wrote:
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:40 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:The med school thing was just to illustrate that I've been there and know people that go there, so in that area we are equal. I don't give a shit about my personal experiences, and you actually have none, except hanging out with some students? You have come to a completely erroneous conclusion that all supplements are worthless. It's so extreme and absolute that it's ignorant.
You making an excessively long post about your travails of a year of medical school do not make you the RVF resident science expert.
Just as in professional cycling, where people are insanely competitive and will take anything that actually works, so it goes for med students and residents. Think about this scientifically - across the 140 or so AMA schools, students take a wide variety of different vitamins and jellyfish powders to make their neurons dance faster. However, regardless of the school or student or geographical location, their is a clear and consistent use of a handful of relevant substances: caffeine, prescription amphetamines and amphetamine analogues, and modafinil.
This has nothing to do with the taste, color, labeling, or fashionability of the aforementioned three. It has to do with their consistent and reliable and reproducible results.
I am always open to being wrong. If you can provide any reliable, double blind, randomized studies for a specific supplement for a specific malady/ailment, I would be glad to see them.
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:50 AM)ImWaitingForTheMan Wrote:
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:40 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:
You making an excessively long post about your travails of a year of medical school do not make you the RVF resident science expert.
Just as in professional cycling, where people are insanely competitive and will take anything that actually works, so it goes for med students and residents. Think about this scientifically - across the 140 or so AMA schools, students take a wide variety of different vitamins and jellyfish powders to make their neurons dance faster. However, regardless of the school or student or geographical location, their is a clear and consistent use of a handful of relevant substances: caffeine, prescription amphetamines and amphetamine analogues, and modafinil.
This has nothing to do with the taste, color, labeling, or fashionability of the aforementioned three. It has to do with their consistent and reliable and reproducible results.
I am always open to being wrong. If you can provide any reliable, double blind, randomized studies for a specific supplement for a specific malady/ailment, I would be glad to see them.
I will gladly post those studies up.
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:56 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:48 AM)ImWaitingForTheMan Wrote:
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:40 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:The med school thing was just to illustrate that I've been there and know people that go there, so in that area we are equal. I don't give a shit about my personal experiences, and you actually have none, except hanging out with some students? You have come to a completely erroneous conclusion that all supplements are worthless. It's so extreme and absolute that it's ignorant.
You making an excessively long post about your travails of a year of medical school do not make you the RVF resident science expert.
Just as in professional cycling, where people are insanely competitive and will take anything that actually works, so it goes for med students and residents. Think about this scientifically - across the 140 or so AMA schools, students take a wide variety of different vitamins and jellyfish powders to make their neurons dance faster. However, regardless of the school or student or geographical location, their is a clear and consistent use of a handful of relevant substances: caffeine, prescription amphetamines and amphetamine analogues, and modafinil.
This has nothing to do with the taste, color, labeling, or fashionability of the aforementioned three. It has to do with their consistent and reliable and reproducible results.
I am always open to being wrong. If you can provide any reliable, double blind, randomized studies for a specific supplement for a specific malady/ailment, I would be glad to see them.
I never posted the full extent of my experience, and generally shy away from being too autobiographical/identifiable here.
I also don't think that all supplements are worthless, just the vast majority.
In the specific case of "brain supplements," my conclusion is that if there really were anything significantly effective beyond the 3 I identified, you would see it rapidly adopted and consistently used among hypercompetitive groups like med students/residents and others.
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:56 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:I took that crap down on my signature, we can work this out like gentleman. I think you will give me at least some credit. This is still somewhat experimental but the evidences points strongly. Links coming, give me 5-10 minutes.
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:48 AM)ImWaitingForTheMan Wrote:
Quote: (06-10-2012 09:40 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:The med school thing was just to illustrate that I've been there and know people that go there, so in that area we are equal. I don't give a shit about my personal experiences, and you actually have none, except hanging out with some students? You have come to a completely erroneous conclusion that all supplements are worthless. It's so extreme and absolute that it's ignorant.
You making an excessively long post about your travails of a year of medical school do not make you the RVF resident science expert.
Just as in professional cycling, where people are insanely competitive and will take anything that actually works, so it goes for med students and residents. Think about this scientifically - across the 140 or so AMA schools, students take a wide variety of different vitamins and jellyfish powders to make their neurons dance faster. However, regardless of the school or student or geographical location, their is a clear and consistent use of a handful of relevant substances: caffeine, prescription amphetamines and amphetamine analogues, and modafinil.
This has nothing to do with the taste, color, labeling, or fashionability of the aforementioned three. It has to do with their consistent and reliable and reproducible results.
I am always open to being wrong. If you can provide any reliable, double blind, randomized studies for a specific supplement for a specific malady/ailment, I would be glad to see them.
I never posted the full extent of my experience, and generally shy away from being too autobiographical/identifiable here.
I also don't think that all supplements are worthless, just the vast majority.
In the specific case of "brain supplements," my conclusion is that if there really were anything significantly effective beyond the 3 I identified, you would see it rapidly adopted and consistently used among hypercompetitive groups like med students/residents and others.
Quote: (06-10-2012 10:05 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:
If you know the specific mechanism of action of Modafinil, please PM it to me, as I forsee a first authorship in NJEM in my near future.
As for omega 3 oils and brain function (please note that even if the study were accurate, it in no way proves that taking Omega 3 supplements will reduce the risk of brain disorders) :
"
Nutrition: Brainpower Tied to Omega-3 Levels
By NICHOLAS BAKALAR
Published: February 27, 2012
Low blood levels of omega-3 fatty acids are associated with smaller brain volume and poorer performance on tests of mental acuity, even in people without apparent dementia, according to a new study.
In the analysis, published online Monday in the journal Neurology, scientists examined 1,575 dementia-free men and women whose average age was 67. The researchers analyzed the fatty acids of the subjects’ red blood cells, a more reliable measurement than a plasma blood test or an estimate based on diet. They used an M.R.I. scan to measure brain volume and white matter hyperintensities, a radiological finding indicative of vascular damage.
People in the lowest one-quarter for omega-3 levels had significantly lower total cerebral brain volume than those in the highest one-quarter, even after adjusting for age, body mass index, smoking and other factors. They also performed significantly worse on tests of visual memory, executive function and abstract memory than those in the highest one-quarter. There was no significant association with white matter hyperintensity volume.
“We feel that omega-3’s reduce vascular pathology and thus reduce the rate of brain aging,” said Dr. Zaldy S. Tan, the lead author and associate professor of medicine at the University of California, Los Angeles.
Few in the study were taking omega-3 supplements, Dr. Tan said. The main reason that some had higher blood levels of omega-3’s was that they ate more fatty fish.
Several of the authors have financial relationships with pharmaceutical companies. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/health...mance.html
Quote: (06-10-2012 10:05 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:I don't read that NYT shit for science news. Any mainstream science reporting makes me want to barffffff.
If you know the specific mechanism of action of Modafinil, please PM it to me, as I forsee a first authorship in NJEM in my near future.
As for omega 3 oils and brain function (please note that even if the study were accurate, it in no way proves that taking Omega 3 supplements will reduce the risk of brain disorders) :
"
Nutrition: Brainpower Tied to Omega-3 Levels
By NICHOLAS BAKALAR
Published: February 27, 2012
Low blood levels of omega-3 fatty acids are associated with smaller brain volume and poorer performance on tests of mental acuity, even in people without apparent dementia, according to a new study.
In the analysis, published online Monday in the journal Neurology, scientists examined 1,575 dementia-free men and women whose average age was 67. The researchers analyzed the fatty acids of the subjects’ red blood cells, a more reliable measurement than a plasma blood test or an estimate based on diet. They used an M.R.I. scan to measure brain volume and white matter hyperintensities, a radiological finding indicative of vascular damage.
People in the lowest one-quarter for omega-3 levels had significantly lower total cerebral brain volume than those in the highest one-quarter, even after adjusting for age, body mass index, smoking and other factors. They also performed significantly worse on tests of visual memory, executive function and abstract memory than those in the highest one-quarter. There was no significant association with white matter hyperintensity volume.
“We feel that omega-3’s reduce vascular pathology and thus reduce the rate of brain aging,” said Dr. Zaldy S. Tan, the lead author and associate professor of medicine at the University of California, Los Angeles.
Few in the study were taking omega-3 supplements, Dr. Tan said. The main reason that some had higher blood levels of omega-3’s was that they ate more fatty fish.
Several of the authors have financial relationships with pharmaceutical companies. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/health...mance.html
Quote: (06-10-2012 10:41 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:
Those are some links worth checking out. I will get to them later on today.
Progress on drugs that would really impact neural degeneration or indeed even encourage and promote regeneration has been really slow/non existent. Alzheimers drugs, and there have been many attempts by some determined, well funded, and bright people, haven't had significant palliative, preventive, or curative effects for extended periods.
Good news is that I'm 32, and new classes of drugs to treat alz and similar will likely be invented, tested on human gineau pigs and early users, and available by the time I start crapping myself. It would also be nice to have a depression treatment based on my portable miniature MRI wand, but SNRIs are suitable for now.
