[Roosh]

Krauser recently went on a rant and was given a 7 day ban by Tuthmosis. I fully support Tuth's ban, especially in light of the fact that I've allowed Krauser and his fans to self promote his products here for free. Here's just a sampling of threads that helped enrich Krauser:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-33175.html
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-42963.html
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-44185.html
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-42864.html
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-37237.html
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-13348.html

And then he starts off his rant with this:

Quote:

- Most of you are either liars or bullshitters when it comes to your stories about money or girls.

If he cared about the community we have here, he wouldn't put the whole forum under suspicion. There are mechanisms to weed out liars and I do investigate complaints. He did not contact me about all these "bullshitters."

What I find most interesting is that he's so sure that over 50% of you are "liars" but he missed it when his best friend Tom Torero was exposed for fraud by scamming men with a completely bogus infield video where he kisses a paid actress but passes it on as real to sell an expensive product:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-43228.html

So Krauser can't identity a fake infield from one of his best friends but he's sure half of the forum are liars? Krauser is not stupid: I'm absolutely certain he knew that Tom was faking, and if not then he's not as good with game as he thinks he is. Either Krauser was complicit in letting men be defrauded by Tom's bullshit or he can't tell a real pickup from a fake one. Even worse, the fact that they are still buddy-buddy shows that Krauser doesn't care about having a fraud deep in his inner circle.

Meltdowns don't come out of nowhere. The reason he posted his rant is because two weeks ago I shut down promotion from one of his friends (Steve Jabba):

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-44924.html

This friend talked shit about me like a woman after I met him and Krauser in London for two beers a couple years ago. He tried to pretend nothing happened on blog comments via rooshv.com since then, but the walls have ears. I stated for the record in that thread that I didn't want Steve or Tom to peddle their products here (Tom was caught spamming in the past). Birds of a feather tend to flock together, but I still did not lock down the many Krauser threads. Now I will.

From this point on, I will not allow any discussion of products or game from the London day game crew. Through their individual actions, they have displayed fraud, petty behavior, backstabbing, gossip, ungratefulness, and an embarrassing insecurity complex that if you don't run game in the exact manner they run it, you're not actually using game.

It is absolutely clear to me after his rant that Krauser does not give a damn about the RVF community. I consider his accusation against the forum as a personal insult since we have met twice before and have an open line of communication. Him and his friends see this forum as a way to promote their products and make money, to treat us one way in public but talk trash in private while laughing to the bank. If you get value out of the London crew's work then you know where to find them, but they will get no more airtime on this forum. I wish them the best of luck in their commercial endeavors.

[enderilluminatus]

A $100 book what the fuck

[CrimsonDeep85]

Good going roosh, don't let people piggy back off you then talk mad trash too. Its annoying to deal with a hater that acts like a friend =/

[Captain Gh]

This let's me know that you sometimes gotta take a little break from Gaming to achieve something that's meaningful to you. Gaming non stop does something that I can't really put into words because it's different for everyone, but I'm a firm believer

that it does something that makes you snap, on different level for everyone, but there's an anger that emanates from it. When I'm angry about a flake, that's my sign to chill out and do something else for a while. Hope Krauser reads this

[MidniteSpecial]

People got mad at me when I said that $100 book thing was a little too much.

[WestIndianArchie]

(02-21-2015 05:37 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

This let's me know that you sometimes gotta take a little break from Gaming to achieve something that's meaningful to you. Gaming non stop does something that I can't really put into words because it's different for everyone, but I'm a firm believer

None of that rant seemed to be about game.

WIA

[britchard]

Does anyone have the figures of the sales of the $100 book?

[Rutting Elephant]

I can't believe so many people liked the rant linked in Roosh's first sentence above.

[Oz.]

Never heard of this Krauser

[Basil Ransom]

Obsessing over whether someone is a fraud or not, in the absence of definitive evidence, is pointless. Try out their advice, see if it works, draw your own conclusion. Meet them if they are local, and verify their claims. If they're cool, keep chilling with them. It's pretty simple. I've met a wide variety of guys from this site. If someone was a fraud, it will be apparent, and big whoop, I wasted an hour meeting up with him.

Even Keyboard Jockeys like Robert Greene offer value if they speak truth, and even naturals can be frauds effectively if they give bad advice.

[TheSlayer]

(02-21-2015 05:47 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

I can't believe so many people liked the rant linked in Roosh's first sentence above.

This X 10.

Can't believe it got 23 likes.

[enderilluminatus]

Maybe they were ironic likes.

[Phoenix]

Yeah I just assumed they were 'stirring likes', to encourage more ranting even though they disagreed with its sentiments. At least that theory is more comfortable.

Most of us are just bullshitting? Sounds like a bitter dude. If anything it's more likely that he is, given that his livelihood probably rests on people believing he is successful with women.

[Foolsgo1d]

In defense of those who liked his rant I'm sure there were parts those guys liked and laughed, as I did. I did not like the post though. Its down to any one individual but you can't use the like/rep system agasint guys here.

[Tuthmosis]

It's good to see Roosh comment directly on that meltdown, which I thought raised several red flags and wasn't just another meltdown by any ol' member. Among them, of course, is the full-throated articulation of the low esteem in which Krauser holds most of the members of the forum. More subtle are his low opinions of the culture and rules of the forum; his brazen move is tantamount to disrespect to the moderators and senior members who work to keep this place being a good community for men to gather and discuss a variety of issues. A go fuck yourself, in not so many words.

As many of you no-doubtedly noticed, I responded directly to Krauser's statement here. Beyond his attitudes towards this forum, I'm also bothered by numerous views he articulated in that rant--not just on a personal level, which I set aside in dealing with moderating matters, but on a larger Manosphere-level. This forum has always been and--as far as I'm concerned--will continue to be a place for men to state opinions that aren't "politically correct" and are sometimes "uncomfortable" to read. That said, there are limitations to an open discourse. There's a point where you embarrass community members and discredit the broader agendas (to the extent that we call them that) we're trying to get into the popular discourse (i.e., the media) by association. There's also a point where your views are more closely aligned with other communities than ours.

My original response to Krauser's comment:

(02-21-2015 05:19 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

I've just started to work my way through this thread, and I'm starting to notice that several members are using it to not just say "unpopular opinions," but to say things that run outright contrary to what we do here in the forum. It's basically a lawless free-for-all in here. These opinions then rarely stay here; they pour into the rest of the forum. I was looking for where a new, evolved strain of race/religion/political trolling was coming from, and this thread--right now--is a prime suspect. It's more or less a trolling incubator.

I don't think Krauser's post was "epic." Far from it. I think it was an irresponsible and disappointing itemization of the kind of unintelligent beliefs that are making some members of the manosphere sound more and more like Stormfront registrants. It's precisely what I commented about here, on steroids. My duty and responsibility is to not let this community become into whatever that is. That's to say nothing about his disclosure of what he actually thinks of most of the membership here. I expected a lot more from Krauser, who I didn't know had made the switch from daygame game to extremist politics. Applying the logic in his post, I've learned a considerable amount about the British writ-large.

I'm leaving this thread open, but with a strong impulse to close it in the near future. In the meantime, I'm giving Krauser a 7-day. No man is above the laws, and I don't think we need the follow-up post to that "masterpiece" some of you were requesting.

I've also screen-capped the list of every guy who liked that post. I'm finding a lot of correlation between the names and problematic members.

In recent weeks, maybe months, I'd noticed a marked shift toward a more aggressive, even bitter, borderline-apocalyptic tone in posts--especially around political, religious, and race topics. I made some remarks about this turn, in a broader context of the Manosphere as a whole, in this post. Since those subjects are part of the news, and directly affect men today, it certainly makes sense that they're part of the conversation. But, I'm disturbed by the particularly untempered nature of the remarks, and the near-obsession some members have developed with single issues. Fortunately, as moderator, I'm a position to make corrections to this overall negative shift.

There are times where the forum is running smoothly, and a light-hand in moderation is sufficient to keep the signal-to-noise ratios at good levels. While I'll certainly continue to discuss this with Roosh in private, my sense is that that ratio has tipped a bit into the wrong direction. I'm for making the small corrections now, rather trying to make much larger ones down the road.

[Roosh]

Also Tuth did mention he screencapped who liked that post. There are shady patterns that come up when a certain member repeatedly likes anti-game or anti-forum statements, but there is no system in place to track what "bad" opinions are liked or not. I know that people have many reasons for clicking the like button. When warnings/bans are given, it's from direct statements the member makes, not what they liked in the past.

But if you like a meltdown post that said "Roosh is the devil," then yes I may keep an eye out for you.

[LonerWithABoner]

1. It wasn't a "rant". It was a list of his unpopular opinions, hidden away deep in a thread called "Post your Unpopular Opinions".

2. He wasn't attacking you, Roosh. Nor was he attacking the moderators or any specific posters. Just pointing out that there are a lot of posers out there. I've been on these PUA boards since all we had was alt.seduction.fast on Usenet back in the 1990s. There have always been posers trying to make a name for themselves for whatever reason. It's a problem.

3. I'm glad that you take a heavy hand in policing the board. This place would be chaos without it. But stop taking things so personally. A guy like Krauser should get some respect and leeway, even though you have been gracious enough to provide him with free advertising.

This isn't a sorority house.


Anyway, back to lurking.

[Impulse]

(02-19-2015 05:29 AM)Krauser Wrote:  

- When you learn to see black people as frightened and impulsive children, not capable of getting by in white man's civilisation, then lots of their behaviour makes sense.

(02-21-2015 06:34 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also Tuth did mention he screencapped who liked that post. There are shady patterns that come up when a certain member repeatedly likes anti-game or anti-forum statements, but there is no system in place to track what "bad" opinions are liked or not. I know that people have many reasons for clicking the like button. When warnings/bans are given, it's from direct statements the member makes, not what they liked in the past.

But if you like a meltdown post that said "Roosh is the devil," then yes I may keep an eye out for you.

It could be that they agree with certain points but not all of them.

[speakeasy]

(02-21-2015 06:37 PM)Impulse Wrote:  

(02-19-2015 05:29 AM)Krauser Wrote:  

- When you learn to see black people as frightened and impulsive children, not capable of getting by in white man's civilisation, then lots of their behaviour makes sense.

[Cobra]

That was something.

Black people, Brits, Spaniards, Italians etc. but NO mention of Indians.

Somewhat surprised I guess, given all the unexpected hate that was in there.

Oh well, dodged a bullet there.

[Tuthmosis]

(02-21-2015 06:34 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also Tuth did mention he screencapped who liked that post. There are shady patterns that come up when a certain member repeatedly likes anti-game or anti-forum statements, but there is no system in place to track what "bad" opinions are liked or not. I know that people have many reasons for clicking the like button. When warnings/bans are given, it's from direct statements the member makes, not what they liked in the past.

But if you like a meltdown post that said "Roosh is the devil," then yes I may keep an eye out for you.

Exactly. Just like I'm more likely to give a guy warning instead of an outright ban if he has 20 rep points versus 0, your contribution-to-detraction ratio on the board will affect how much attention we need to pay to you. There are some guys I don't have to even look at. Then there are guys who manage to troll the forum for years by remaining subtle or guys who are experts at just dancing on the line--being a nuisance to their "enemies" on the board, but not enough to get outright banned.

Back when we had star-rating for threads, we had guys rating all of the threads around theirs one-star, while rating their own 5. How many of you noticed that? There are guys who bitch and moan by PM when they get small warnings for obvious trolling jobs. Should I ignore that as well? Because NBA refs, for example, don't. I have to look at everything.

In the end, what you actually write is what will determine what happens, but if you start displaying a certain pattern and then say something that confirms my theories, the hammer is going to rain down.

I've been doing this long enough to know that certain things often--if not necessarily always--mean others.

[Roosh]

Quote:

but NO mention of Indians.

Indians are a big segment of the London PUA customer base.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

I don't want to mention the London Daygame guys products, since that would be promotion now.

But I will say this:

The comment was posted on Unpopular Opinions - also he called the opinions uttered unpopular on RVF - so it was exactly that.

Krauser seems to me a hard-boiled character, who is certainly often harsher online than in real life. I never met him in real life, but that's my impression from the interviews and his writing.

The London Daygamers - (though there are highly different ones out there and it's difficult to lump them all together) - offer a different form of Game approach. Whether it gives guys out there some value or not is individually to be decided.

And to be honest it seems to me that Krauser always referred to Roosh in respect. Personally I don't see it as an insult, since Krauser has a harsh way of putting things and a 7 day ban seems to aptly reflect that.

On the other hand it's Roosh's forum here and there is no democracy and frankly I have no problem with it, since the rule of the many is overrated, even if I do not like all decisions.

I can understand Roosh's argumentation to limit the promotional options for some individuals, but I do hope that the respective guys can come to terms, since you don't want to end up in a place where saying: "I like Krauser's works and find them useful." can get you banned instantly.

I personally consider both Roosh's and Krauser's Game materials complementary covering different approaches and aspects. I also recommend them both to newbies together with the Rational Male bible.

Also Roosh has morphed now more into a social commentator, favorite misogynist & bogeyman, businessman and writer while Krauser focuses mainly on Game products (despite having written a biography now).

I hope I don't get banned now for partly defending Krauser here - heh.

Even if I do, then this is my final fitting vid.

[scorpion]

I think it's kind of silly to sanction a guy for voicing controversial opinions in a threat specifically devoted to voicing controversial opinions. However, given the business implications and the credibility concerns surrounding Krauser's associates, looking at it from Roosh's perspective I can understand why things played out this way. Forum politics become a lot more complicated when money and product promotions are involved. It's also inarguable that Tuthmosis is correct about the importance of maintaining quality on the forum, and though I might disagree with specific calls he makes, it's clear he takes his role as moderator very seriously, with the overall good of the community in mind. Krauser didn't comment here very often, but I enjoyed his no-nonsense style and will miss his posts.

Let this be a reminder to us all of the importance of knowing how to play by the rules of the forum, and how to balance a diplomatic tone and rhetorical aggression. When discussing controversial topics, you don't have to show the full monty to get a point across to the reader. Leave a little to the imagination, let them fill in the holes for themselves. I'm sure Krauser understands this, and I can't help but think he wrote that post while in a particularly shitty mood, and possibly after a few drinks. Just unfortunate.

[stefpdt]

I was pretty surprised by his rant. It was pessimistic and downright racist at certain parts. Disappointed with everyone who "liked" it simply because they saw that a prominent writer from the manosphere posted it.

After having been a member of numerous forums, I always seem to come back to RVF. I can't even count how many forums have insane trolling, bashing and other BS problems associated with them. This community is somehow always insanely enthusiastic about life and helpful in general. It's difficult to find a well-balanced group of guys who want the most out of life anywhere else online.