[reco2100]

My question is for the men on this forum who have some or a lot of experience with Russian women.

I am divorced and mid-fifties. I have gotten into game and have had some luck in the US but like many, I want to try my hand at FSU women. In fact, I have set up some meetings with a couple of beautiful younger women when I go to Moscow and Prague in about a month. And want to try gaming there also.

So I am in a meeting yesterday with two very experienced divorce attorneys. One is a former family court judge and mediator who has a combined experience in 25,000 divorce cases! The other is the best divorce attorney I have ever seen he has worked 2300 divorce cases and won almost all of them men or women clients.

So we are talking ant the judge knows I am recently divorced and he offers me some advice. He says unequivocally "whatever you do Reco stay away from Russian women" They are trouble and they will wreck your life. He has no idea of my interest in FSU women.

My first inclination was to say I am not planning to marry anyone Russian or otherwise. But I thought let me just ask him why? Remember this guy has worked 25,000 divorce cases, just imagine the carnage he has witnessed or been involved with.

So he says they are brought up in a criminal environment where if they can get away with it they will do it. And it will come to no good end. So I thought I would come to the source men that have experience in this area. What do you guys think? Are they too much trouble? Is it more trouble than it is worth? Am I thinking with my dick? (don't answer that last one)

Tom Torrero talks about the devastation of the FSU and how cold their culture is but he believes it is still worth it and is fascinated by the land and the incredibly beautiful women, and he keeps going back. I believe he was just there on a tour with Mystery.

Blackdragon absolutely says to not date Russian women he says it is too much trouble constantly looking for money, gold digging, demanding, princess behaviors. Holding out forever. What do you guys say?

[Beirut]

Youre mid 50s.

Do you want to get married or you want to bang a bunch of hot girls?

If the first yeah i wouldnt advise it. Not that there arent a lot of marriage material girls there, but your total cultural disconnect will make it hard for you to gef any real glimpse of her character.

If you just want to bang then you should expect to throw some money around at your age, or invest a lot of time and attention into a girl ans make her believe you want a relationship.

Some guys get angry if a girl expects them to pay her tab. Youre mid 50s so you shouldnt. That takes away 90% of the complaints youll hear from internet gurus.


I think the bulk of your bangs and focus should be early 30s/late 20s single women or single moms. I had a couple of them go straight to my place for the first date on my last trip to Ukraine and they looked better than the younger ones i ended up hooking up with.

Some are sharky but others are really in need of attention.

[DaveR]

I would recommend against getting involved if you're looking for something permanent. It will be a lot of fun if you don't mind the thought of her waking up one day in a bad mood and deciding that it's over. They're completely driven by emotions. Unfortunately your attorney's comments about their culture are correct... the environment they were brought up in isn't conservative at all in terms of family values, loyalty, etc. The Soviets worked very hard to destroy that.

You'll need to put your assets in some kind of water-tight structure so she can't take them during a divorce... I'm not even sure if that's possible in the US and other common-law jurisdictions; your attorney friends can surely advise.

and Tom Torrero is a fraud...

[Tintin]

Learn the language if you don't speak already, will make huge difference to the longevity of your relations.

You will need money too of course

Tom Torrero only wishes he was involved in the "devastation of the FSU".

[Rocha]

At the end of the day, women are all the same and respond well to the same masculines traits, looks, style, power, money, fame, charisma, strenght (both physical and psicological)...

Depends where you coming from and your life experience with women. FSU mentality both for men and women is "fuck or get fucked", and once they smell the blood (any weakness) they will try to capitalize on it.

So being a cold hearted mofo is the way to deal with them FSU chicks. Don't show much emotion or talks about feelings and stuff like that. Lead always, and be what I call a brute gentleman. Hold the door for her, help her put her coat, but on the other be willing to drag her to the next alley - if consensual of course))) - and fuck her brainless like the cold hearted little slut she is deserves to be fucked.

[seaofp]

Those lawyers have seen what happens when you import one.

Thats where the danger lies, but it's a bad idea with any nationality?

[JohnQPublic]

They aren't all the same, but you most likely won't spend enough time in any one country (3-4 years) to understand the culture enough to sort out the good from the bad.

If you're mid-50s and don't have anything different/special to offer your best strategy is don't talk money and don't show money. You don't have to be cheap, you can buy dinner, drinks, etc. But for most EE girls, if they can't see the money then there is no money. That'll sort out a lot of the sharks from the start. Even so, you'll find that a lot of girls just want to get out of the country and will see you as their ticket. That's harder to get around unless you're living in the country. But if you are living there, the girls who want the ticket out won't be especially interested in you.

A lot of guys want to talk a big money game and tell girls how much they have. Then the girl will try to see if it's true and ask you to buy her stuff. Don't get into that. If you are in her country, after you meet a girl are pretty sure you're in with her (already banged) you can buy her small things and take her on a trip. That's all it takes.

If you meet an Eastern girl living in a Western country is a different ball game. A lot the EE girls really struggle to make it in the US, Canada and Western Europe. It's hard for them to make girlfriends who are local, if they are hot, they're afraid of the pump and dump and they are looking for security. A 50yo guy who might not seem to have many options as good as her will seem like a good target. If you meet an EE girl in the West go for one who already has a visa, a job and makes enough money to make ends meet. Otherwise she could be a recipe for disaster.

[JimBobsCooters]

If you're coming for fun, speak Russian (or at least understand it) and don't act like an idiot (flashing money) you should be absolutely fine.

If you're looking for a wife, then there is an awful lot of shit to wade through and honestly I'd probably go somewhere else. You've got gold diggers who are elite at what they do. You've got the girls just hunting for a ticket/visa out. If you are good at spotting those types and can avoid them, then there is a ton of wife material also.

I'd highly recommend getting out of Moscow, Peter and even the 2nd tier Kazan type cities though if you're really looking for wife material. There are still a ton of really beautiful girls in the 3rd tier cities that are raised in strong family environments with great values. The major flaw with these types though is they don't want to leave their families so you can easily end up stuck in a 3rd or worse tier city or an emotional wreck of a wife if you drag her away and you don't want to deal with a Russian woman when they get emotional (and they trigger stupid easily).

I'm not sure I've been to a country where the women are as consistently good looking as Russia, in that regard it's always worth it but, yeah, they're headcases on a consistent basis, the real skill is trying to decipher which kind of headcase you're dealing with so you can avoid hitting the trigger words that set them off.

[Shimmy]

(07-21-2018 03:07 PM)seaofp Wrote:  

Those lawyers have seen what happens when you import one.

Thats where the danger lies, but it's a bad idea with any nationality?

Bingo.

Comparing that would be like if someone from Bangkok or Saigon was comparing all American women to one of the fat washed up english teaching slam pigs they meet.

[DaveR]

(07-21-2018 03:07 PM)seaofp Wrote:  

Those lawyers have seen what happens when you import one.

Thats where the danger lies, but it's a bad idea with any nationality?

Staying in Russia isn't a solution... All of the girls know how Russian family courts work: 1/4 of your income for the first kid, 1/3 for two kids, 1/2 for 3+. If you don't pay, you don't leave the country.

And there's no risk of a foreign ex husband taking custody of her kids - the courts always rule that kids should stay in Russia and with the mother.

[jasond]

I'm an American guy, who has been living in Eastern Europe for the past 5 years. I would definitely trust your lawyer, and avoid Russian/Ukrainian girls for any type of long-term relationship/marriage. They are the only type of girls I've met that could pretend to be in love with you for 10 years, just to get a green card.

Your lawyer is correct about the criminal environment in these countries..it comes from 500+ years of history of dictactors, gulags, slavery, and constant injustice. It causes the people to be cold, heartless and calculating.

This is a country that has a systemic doping program for its athletes, hacks into other nation's computer networks to sway elections, invades other countries on false pretenses. The majority of its young people want to leave too...many of them are living/working in central Europe. Think about it...how could such a messed up society produce quality women?

Even in terms of looks, I consider Russian women to be extremely over-rated. At first glance, they appear to look nice, since they dress and walk in a feminine way. But look beneath the surface, and you see bodies that are skinny-fat, not toned. You see girls that are thin because they don't eat, not because they eat/exercise properly. And expert make-up that covers up very average faces. The ugliest part though, is their personality once you get to know them.

I would avoid FSU countries and stick with central-European nations for better LTR/wife material.

[jasond]

If you have lots of time, you might also want to view this blog:

http://streetstories.co.uk/

A 50-something British guy living in Eastern Europe trying to date/marry a Russian women...all his successes and failures are documented here.

[rotinz]

(07-21-2018 04:30 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(07-21-2018 03:07 PM)seaofp Wrote:  

Those lawyers have seen what happens when you import one.

Thats where the danger lies, but it's a bad idea with any nationality?

Staying in Russia isn't a solution... All of the girls know how Russian family courts work: 1/4 of your income for the first kid, 1/3 for two kids, 1/2 for 3+. If you don't pay, you don't leave the country.

And there's no risk of a foreign ex husband taking custody of her kids - the courts always rule that kids should stay in Russia and with the mother.

Wait, so lets say you go to Russia and end up getting a girl pregnant. Could she automatically try to claim 1/4 of your income? How about if you are interested in raising the kid would you get a say in it at all?

[reco2100]

Wow, there is some really good advice here. One thing to clarify. I am absolutely not looking for a wife. I am looking to travel and to possibly live abroad for short or medium term since my business travels with me most of the time. I don't even need to bang a bunch of hot girls, just a few would be good for me. Get them into a rotation like I do here in the US?

I was looking to date and meet up with Russian FSU women.

Even if I did every make one permanent I would not bring them back to the US. The divorce laws are too brutal for men. Both these lawyers had a quote they use in their business that sums it up "the penis goes to jail". Lol


My goal is travel, adventure, game, beautiful women. I am surprised by what you said about Russian women Jasond but you lived there. The Russian women I have met here have been stunning.

I also understand about not showing money. Keep the nice watches and jewelry at home, and dress in jeans and normal stuff. Buy drinks and dinner but don't spend on them unless you have them in a relationship and then spend very little.

I have had several online flat out ask me to send them money just to meet. lol I thought it was funny.

Is day game the way to go there? That's what I usually do here. I just talk to everyone I come into contact with every day and ask them out. Or do you guys actively go out on the street and hunt down the girls?

I hear that fewer and fewer young guys even attempt to talk to a strange woman so it makes someone willing to do this as more attractive. Is this true?

[DaveR]

(07-21-2018 05:22 PM)rotinz Wrote:  

(07-21-2018 04:30 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

Staying in Russia isn't a solution... All of the girls know how Russian family courts work: 1/4 of your income for the first kid, 1/3 for two kids, 1/2 for 3+. If you don't pay, you don't leave the country.

And there's no risk of a foreign ex husband taking custody of her kids - the courts always rule that kids should stay in Russia and with the mother.

Wait, so lets say you go to Russia and end up getting a girl pregnant. Could she automatically try to claim 1/4 of your income? How about if you are interested in raising the kid would you get a say in it at all?

Yes, if you're living/working in Russia, get some thot pregnant, and she knows your real details... you're screwed. Also, if you own a house and let her register it as her address, then any kid of hers will also be registered at that address and you won't be able to evict them.
If you're only visiting Russia as a tourist, the court will have trouble finding your income and she would have to file her suit in your country. However, there are some treaties dealing with this, so it's still quite a risk.

Fathers only ever get involved in the kid's upbringing if the mother has a police record for drug abuse. If you're not a Russian citizen, she would probably still get custody anyway.

BOttom line.. don't let any sluts know your details. Get a burner number. I know more than a few who are living on easy street because they convinced a simp to bust a nut in them.

[WashedUPVet]

Get fixed before you go for the long term if you are not. Don’t tell the girls.

OP, your lifestyle bankroll is 10K per month per your profile. If you spend half of that anywhere in Russia including Moscow, you will do just fine even at your age. If you live simply, it will hurt you as a 55 YO. If you spend the full 10K, you will put yourself in another league of greatness IF you know what you are doing and another league of stupidity IF you don’t. At your age 25-35 YO women should be your target. Present yourself as the high value man that you are and you will do just fine. You wont need Russian if you stay in Moscow, although it of course helps. If you go to live there, you will progressively find yourself with more beautiful women as you learn the culture and the ins and outs. Find a language class or tutor there and study. Take photos of yourself at art museums and post them. Women will expect you to be a man of class and mature.

Don’t live your life in fear of the crafty FSU woman, but be keenly aware of your initial excitement over the girls which may lead to irrational decisions and recognize it. Lead in the relationship and don’t be a pushover reeling from the sadness of your divorce. Be direct. Give yourself a few months to settle down to your new reality and to calibrate your game to the FSU. There are many wonderful girls in Russia. It’s your job to use discretion and to sort out those who will take advantage of you. There are plenty of great family girls, but you will need to have your guard up more than the 30 YO dude. With age disparity comes greater risk, but it isn’t impossible to date a true gem.

Share your experience here. I haven’t read much here from someone in the FSU of your age. Ideally I would like to spend some of my retirement days there part of the year. I only have experience living in Moscow as a 35 YO divorced guy, however 55 should still be very doable.

[Newguy101]

Well thats 2nd and 3rd world girls in general. My dads work is filled with divorced men with filipina ex wives.
When you are a westerner man especially white you will get these actresses thatll play the perfect partner role tp eventually reel you in.
You are seen as a parachute and freedom.
You gotta be uber careful.
Ever try rural dating? Roosh is doing just that in third tier cites and under.
Hard to wife hunt as a foreigner unless youre in another developed nation like argentina or japan

[gework]

(07-21-2018 01:15 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

Unfortunately your attorney's comments about their culture are correct... the environment they were brought up in isn't conservative at all in terms of family values, loyalty, etc. The Soviets worked very hard to destroy that.

I find that pretty much all conservatives are faux, particularly women. I met a girl earlier in the year in Russia. She was demure and soft. She said she's a conservative and not a feminist. But after a while I found out she had a tattoo and the only thing she thought that was wrong about it was that it needed more work. She said being a Christian was important to her. I mentioned that The Bible says:

Quote:

You must not put tattoo marking upon yourselves.

I was told I was wrong.

She seemed better than women in The West, but I'd still be worried about the Russian unpredictability. There were a number of things she said that suggested that she could potentially unleash a torment of illogical, emotional behaviour.

In the US, you have Lauren Southern, Faith Goldy and Tomi Lahren. They're better choices than your average American, but they are no Phyllis Schlafly.

In terms of divorce rates, the lowest are in SE Europe and Transcaucasia.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

While there are variations of course, if any women were "too dangerous" they would have gone extinct generations ago. There's a natural limit as to how much of a cunt you can be.

[reco2100]

(07-21-2018 07:03 PM)WashedUPVet Wrote:  

Get fixed before you go for the long term if you are not. Don’t tell the girls.

OP, your lifestyle bankroll is 10K per month per your profile. If you spend half of that anywhere in Russia including Moscow, you will do just fine even at your age. If you live simply, it will hurt you as a 55 YO. If you spend the full 10K, you will put yourself in another league of greatness IF you know what you are doing and another league of stupidity IF you don’t. At your age 25-35 YO women should be your target. Present yourself as the high value man that you are and you will do just fine. You wont need Russian if you stay in Moscow, although it of course helps. If you go to live there, you will progressively find yourself with more beautiful women as you learn the culture and the ins and outs. Find a language class or tutor there and study. Take photos of yourself at art museums and post them. Women will expect you to be a man of class and mature.

Don’t live your life in fear of the crafty FSU woman, but be keenly aware of your initial excitement over the girls which may lead to irrational decisions and recognize it. Lead in the relationship and don’t be a pushover reeling from the sadness of your divorce. Be direct. Give yourself a few months to settle down to your new reality and to calibrate your game to the FSU. There are many wonderful girls in Russia. It’s your job to use discretion and to sort out those who will take advantage of you. There are plenty of great family girls, but you will need to have your guard up more than the 30 YO dude. With age disparity comes greater risk, but it isn’t impossible to date a true gem.

Share your experience here. I haven’t read much here from someone in the FSU of your age. Ideally I would like to spend some of my retirement days there part of the year. I only have experience living in Moscow as a 35 YO divorced guy, however 55 should still be very doable.

Interesting what you have to say but I have a question. I never pay a woman to be with me. Even when I dabbeld in the sugar daddy sites. I always stated I will not pay you to be with me in the body of my profile.

So how do you leverage a better income without being a target for gold diggers? Is it even possible?

How do you spend 5k per month and gain the sucess you are talking about but not be a walking ATM?

I am also just fine with 25 to 35 YO. I like them younger but that is not a requirement.

[reco2100]

(07-21-2018 01:15 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

I would recommend against getting involved if you're looking for something permanent. It will be a lot of fun if you don't mind the thought of her waking up one day in a bad mood and deciding that it's over. They're completely driven by emotions. Unfortunately your attorney's comments about their culture are correct... the environment they were brought up in isn't conservative at all in terms of family values, loyalty, etc. The Soviets worked very hard to destroy that.

You'll need to put your assets in some kind of water-tight structure so she can't take them during a divorce... I'm not even sure if that's possible in the US and other common-law jurisdictions; your attorney friends can surely advise.

and Tom Torrero is a fraud...

Dave I am curious about this. Tom Torero is a fraud. How do you know this? I am just curious. I don't really know one way or the other.

And thank for your guidance on the Russian woman issue.

[Clint Barton]

Tom Torero staged an infield pickup. thread-43228.html

No credibility.

(07-22-2018 11:13 AM)reco2100 Wrote:  

(07-21-2018 01:15 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

I would recommend against getting involved if you're looking for something permanent. It will be a lot of fun if you don't mind the thought of her waking up one day in a bad mood and deciding that it's over. They're completely driven by emotions. Unfortunately your attorney's comments about their culture are correct... the environment they were brought up in isn't conservative at all in terms of family values, loyalty, etc. The Soviets worked very hard to destroy that.

You'll need to put your assets in some kind of water-tight structure so she can't take them during a divorce... I'm not even sure if that's possible in the US and other common-law jurisdictions; your attorney friends can surely advise.

and Tom Torrero is a fraud...

Dave I am curious about this. Tom Torero is a fraud. How do you know this? I am just curious. I don't really know one way or the other.

And thank for your guidance on the Russian woman issue.

[WashedUPVet]

(07-22-2018 11:05 AM)reco2100 Wrote:  

(07-21-2018 07:03 PM)WashedUPVet Wrote:  

Get fixed before you go for the long term if you are not. Don’t tell the girls.

OP, your lifestyle bankroll is 10K per month per your profile. If you spend half of that anywhere in Russia including Moscow, you will do just fine even at your age. If you live simply, it will hurt you as a 55 YO. If you spend the full 10K, you will put yourself in another league of greatness IF you know what you are doing and another league of stupidity IF you don’t. At your age 25-35 YO women should be your target. Present yourself as the high value man that you are and you will do just fine. You wont need Russian if you stay in Moscow, although it of course helps. If you go to live there, you will progressively find yourself with more beautiful women as you learn the culture and the ins and outs. Find a language class or tutor there and study. Take photos of yourself at art museums and post them. Women will expect you to be a man of class and mature.

Don’t live your life in fear of the crafty FSU woman, but be keenly aware of your initial excitement over the girls which may lead to irrational decisions and recognize it. Lead in the relationship and don’t be a pushover reeling from the sadness of your divorce. Be direct. Give yourself a few months to settle down to your new reality and to calibrate your game to the FSU. There are many wonderful girls in Russia. It’s your job to use discretion and to sort out those who will take advantage of you. There are plenty of great family girls, but you will need to have your guard up more than the 30 YO dude. With age disparity comes greater risk, but it isn’t impossible to date a true gem.

Share your experience here. I haven’t read much here from someone in the FSU of your age. Ideally I would like to spend some of my retirement days there part of the year. I only have experience living in Moscow as a 35 YO divorced guy, however 55 should still be very doable.

Interesting what you have to say but I have a question. I never pay a woman to be with me. Even when I dabbeld in the sugar daddy sites. I always stated I will not pay you to be with me in the body of my profile.

So how do you leverage a better income without being a target for gold diggers? Is it even possible?

How do you spend 5k per month and gain the sucess you are talking about but not be a walking ATM?

I am also just fine with 25 to 35 YO. I like them younger but that is not a requirement.

I’m not saying you should pay to have a woman with you. This is clearly weakness. I was speaking about the lifestyle that you set up for yourself (your flat, your method of transport, your gym, the restaurants you eat at, your clothing budget, where you sit at the Bolshoi). Nothing I was talking about was paying for women to bribe her to be with you. They enter YOUR world of means that you set up for YOURSELF. You have this life because you are a good businessman, intelligent and wise.

If you ask a Russian girl to split the bill especially with an age difference, you will never see her again. It shows you have no cultural understanding and are not a high value man. When you pay for things you two do together (and initially these things should not be fancy or over the top) I don’t consider it being a sugar daddy or paying a girl to be with you.

You are a sugar daddy if you buy her extravagant gifts or pay for things to “help” her. Buy her simple things that are thoughtful and possibly semi-cheesy (keep it under $20) and see how she reacts. I bought one girl some American flag hair clips, stickers and Body Shop lotion and she tossed them aside. She ended up being a gold digger. Another I bought a California Starbucks “you are here” cup, and she even showed it to her family and its probably in her kitchen even now. It was $10 but she loved it because it was associated with me.

Bottom Line: Don’t be cheap in your personal expenditure, but be restrained in what you spend on them. The mere fact that you have been on a Sugar Daddy site worries me about your ability to succeed with my advice, regardless of the written contract you think you have established in your bio there.

[reco2100]

Thanks for the advice Vet. I appreciate the clarification. I do not nor have I ever paid women to be with me. I do pick up the bill when I meet them out. But you are right on one thing.

Even with me categorically stating that I do not pay them to be with me. Many still expect something. Dating two chicks right now. One is coming over in a few minutes. We go out sometimes but mostly she comes over to my place. The other one we go out a little more often. I pay when we do. But we usually go to average places. No gifts for neither of them. But I am not big on splitting the check with a girl either.

How do you pursue FSU women? Via daygame or nightgame or something else?

[oilbreh]

Probably the same as any other woman and theres a big spectrum in that. You really gotta see the situation. Really be aware of your smv, with a foreigner the differential will probably be smaller to be honest if its "real", there is a less intimate understanding that you will have to make up with in looks and wealth. If your differential is greater than the regular couples you see chances are shes trying to use you(and I mean actual real couples not some fat hairy guy with a couple benz's and his sugar babe). The only real difference, in the west you have less exclusive gems to offer so less of a chance getting played here.

Ive said this before; For long term, I speak russian near fluently and personally just date an american girls without some grand plan of flying into russia on some commando mission to get a future wife. I just dont see it as a reliable enough plan to fall back onto and its not the easiest thing time wise. There are way more girls in america that have been raised in wholesome strong families, vs the cluster fuck of bullshit that happened in the 90s. Our generation in America has a lot of people into fitness, not just starving yourself to stay skinny, so I dont buy the whole they get fat thing if health is a big part of their lifestyle. I know of a successful guy in his 30's with a smoking american gf in a college sororitiy that he married after her graduation. Its doable here and you dont have to deal with how she will adapt to this country.

If your plans are full on to move permanently then thats another story, if not ask yourself why someone else would want to in 2018. A lot of white collar professions now in Russia offer a better lifestyle (taking into account vacation, benefits etc) so the pull is not as strong. I met a couple recent Russian immigrants that pack their bags after a year or two. Main complaints are the crazy amount of bills to pay, how much harder americans work, day care costs, transient nature of americans. Really ask yourself how she will react when you tell her you got 1 week vacation a year and need to haul your ass to work after NYE, there might be a loss of respect in her eyes as she just grew up in a different culture, and a high status man takes the week off after a holiday day.

Again not really discouraging anyone even if it does come across like that, just dont want to have guys waste valuable time without knowing all the factors in play.

EDIT: My post was more for the young guys. There are less options for older women as the life expectancy of me in Russia is around 54. It could work, but then check from my first paragraph. If its some 30 year old goodlooking slim girl, good chance you will get fucked over. Look at the local smv pairings/consider her options here once hypergamy kicks in and chart yourself accordingly.