[Barron]

I've made a few posts on here detailing the dream girl I met from Kherson and what went down between us when I got out there. Basically we didn't emerge from the shit hole apartment I rented for the first 3 days, only because we ran out of food and water.

She was a 9 with clothes on and a 10 naked, I was in love within the first 24 hours. This girl sold me the dream, plain and simple. And oh what a dream it was, especially after traveling for nearly two days to get to Kherson from so-cal.

But when it was time to go home I knew I needed a break to think things over. We stayed in contact but even after all the sex and love that was exchanged things fizzled out. She didn't do anything wrong but fuck she had a ton of orbiters. I made her show me all the lame messages she got on a daily basis from guys on dating sites, vk, and even old text messages from guys that wanted to come visit her. Yea it was funny but it was painfully clear this girl was smothered by male attention and she'd soon tire of mine.

As hard as it was to let it go I know that this was a good thing that could not last. Maybe if I go back out there we'll go on another sex-marathon, maybe not. But one thing about Kherson is that it is saturated with insane talent just above the poverty line. These girls aren't going anywhere, anytime soon. If you haven't even met this girl yet, let alone had sex, you are just kidding yourself about bringing her here. As innocent and beautiful as they seem, they are not. They are very aware of their beauty and the power this gives them over men. I'm sure my girl has fucked for money and I don't blame her given the conditions.

Don't be fooled, smash it and get out. It is worth it if you know you're strong enough to walk away

[TravelerKai]

What's all this fear of bringing a woman back to the US about? You guys sound like every other mgtow forum. Any man afraid of bringing back a woman because of other dudes hitting on her, does not have a woman at all. I don't know much about EE women but my life kicks ass here with my Chinese wife. My wife had a nightmare that I kissed another woman this afternoon and had tears in her eyes. Isn't that sweet? Any motherfucker that thinks they can take my wife from me, come take her off my arm. Seriously. An old natural once told some punks at a nightclub I was at this same thing. The woman just squeezed him tighter. If you can get her off my arm I'd tip my hat to you. I won't even be mad. Women can smell the fear in any man.

Most guys worried about this have an insecurity or a major weakness. If you think you can keep her in a prison in her country think again. You are on her turf. This is why some Chinese guys lie in wait for what are mostly loser betas to bring one to the US for them. Some alpha white guys pluck foreign women off losers too. If you really want to keep any woman in the US I will tell you a secret. Don't let them work in corporate America, and don't bring lots of men around trying to force them to be friends with them. You keep life simple, they stay simple. The more scheming you have to do, the worse it will be.

Op, if you have to question this, you don't know this woman well enough. Game doesn't stop at marriage either. Keeping a firm hand is required for a healthy household.

[JayJuanGee]

(08-13-2014 11:14 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

What's all this fear of bringing a woman back to the US about? You guys sound like every other mgtow forum. Any man afraid of bringing back a woman because of other dudes hitting on her, does not have a woman at all. I don't know much about EE women but my life kicks ass here with my Chinese wife. My wife had a nightmare that I kissed another woman this afternoon and had tears in her eyes. Isn't that sweet? Any motherfucker that thinks they can take my wife from me, come take her off my arm. Seriously. An old natural once told some punks at a nightclub I was at this same thing. The woman just squeezed him tighter. If you can get her off my arm I'd tip my hat to you. I won't even be mad. Women can smell the fear in any man.

Most guys worried about this have an insecurity or a major weakness. If you think you can keep her in a prison in her country think again. You are on her turf. This is why some Chinese guys lie in wait for what are mostly loser betas to bring one to the US for them. Some alpha white guys pluck foreign women off losers too. If you really want to keep any woman in the US I will tell you a secret. Don't let them work in corporate America, and don't bring lots of men around trying to force them to be friends with them. You keep life simple, they stay simple. The more scheming you have to do, the worse it will be.

Op, if you have to question this, you don't know this woman well enough. Game doesn't stop at marriage either. Keeping a firm hand is required for a healthy household.

TravelerKai - it seems that you are in another reality with these kinds of pie in the sky ideas to suggest that either guys are too much losers, and we need to improve our game to keep a girl in the US of A.

Let's take an example of a girl that is an 8 and the guy is a 6 at best or the guy is getting older 20 years older than the girl. The guy is NOT going to have an easy time keeping such a girl satisfied in the US of A with all the offers that she is going to receive, and she will find this out from girlfriends that she makes in the US of A. You cannot keep such a girl locked up and satisfied.. as much as you think that would be possible and practical....

So in the end, your sense of the real deal seems to be somewhat perverted and/or misdirected in your claim that guys should NOT worry about bringing such girls to the US of A.

[cowboy]

I have posted on this subject before as it is popular topic given the the quality of Ukrainian girls. I have known about 5 different guys that married girls from the Ukraine. Of those 5 individuals, 4 men are still married. However, these guys are pretty alpha, well established financially, and I confirmed that 1 guy protected his assets through a prenuptial agreement. Although I would not be surprised if all of them did given the U.S. court system. These guys were fit, average to good looking for their age, intelligent, and successful. I think some of the success could be that they brought these girls back to a good middle America suburban life instead of going back to major money cities (Los Angeles, etc.). What I am trying to say is these guys would be a catch for an American woman and would be a great catch for a girl coming from the Ukraine. They just seem tired of American dating games and did something different. However, women wherever they are from are always looking for an upgrade if it's possible.

The funny thing is the guy that got burned lived in Texas. I remember jimukr104's story about the Texas guy who married a Ukrainian with a kid, she became involved in the Russian community, and basically was schooled on how to exploit him. The main difference was this woman didn't have a kid, however the same thing happened. The nearby Russian community embraced her and he was in trouble. The Russian/Ukrainian community in Texas has that reputation (or at least that's what I have heard), but hell the life expectancy of a domestic Dallas Metroplex marriage isn't that good either.

The men that go over with a Beta attitude and are love struck before they even meet a girl will get played. The Ukrainian girl will lose all respect for him because she is used to a more alpha type Ukrainian guy. However, as stated above guys that are more cautious, come from that culture or understand it have a chance of success (IMO). Supposedly, the statistics for these marriages (marriage success) are higher than domestic marriages which seems crazy due to the hotness of these girls marrying average joes.

[JayJuanGee]

(08-13-2014 11:31 PM)cowboy Wrote:  

I have posted on this subject before as it is popular topic given the the quality of Ukrainian girls. I have known about 5 different guys that married girls from the Ukraine. Of those 5 individuals, 4 men are still married. However, these guys are pretty alpha, well established financially, and I confirmed that 1 guy protected his assets through a prenuptial agreement. Although I would not be surprised if all of them did given the U.S. court system. These guys were fit, average to good looking for their age, intelligent, and successful. I think some of the success could be that they brought these girls back to a good middle America suburban life instead of going back to major money cities (Los Angeles, etc.). What I am trying to say is these guys would be a catch for an American woman and would be a great catch for a girl coming from the Ukraine. They just seem tired of American dating games and did something different. However, women wherever they are from are always looking for an upgrade if it's possible.

The funny thing is the guy that got burned lived in Texas. I remember jimukr104's story about the Texas guy who married a Ukrainian with a kid, she became involved in the Russian community, and basically was schooled on how to exploit him. The main difference was this woman didn't have a kid, however the same thing happened. The nearby Russian community embraced her and he was in trouble. The Russian/Ukrainian community in Texas has that reputation (or at least that's what I have heard), but hell the life expectancy of a domestic Dallas Metroplex marriage isn't that good either.

The men that go over with a Beta attitude and are love struck before they even meet a girl will get played. The Ukrainian girl will lose all respect for him because she is used to a more alpha type Ukrainian guy. However, as stated above guys that are more cautious, come from that culture or understand it have a chance of success (IMO). Supposedly, the statistics for these marriages (marriage success) are higher than domestic marriages which seems crazy due to the hotness of these girls marrying average joes.

Cowboy: I largely agree with your description of the dynamics at play in these kinds of situations, and it may be helpful for guys to take some preventative asset preservation measures... but some of those prenuptial terms may NOT hold.. and there still can be some risks regarding asset preservation...

Can you describe how long approximately the five different guys had been married to UA chicks or in relationships with them? How long have the chicks been in the USA and still "going well"?

[TravelerKai]

(08-13-2014 11:25 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 11:14 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

What's all this fear of bringing a woman back to the US about? You guys sound like every other mgtow forum. Any man afraid of bringing back a woman because of other dudes hitting on her, does not have a woman at all. I don't know much about EE women but my life kicks ass here with my Chinese wife. My wife had a nightmare that I kissed another woman this afternoon and had tears in her eyes. Isn't that sweet? Any motherfucker that thinks they can take my wife from me, come take her off my arm. Seriously. An old natural once told some punks at a nightclub I was at this same thing. The woman just squeezed him tighter. If you can get her off my arm I'd tip my hat to you. I won't even be mad. Women can smell the fear in any man.

Most guys worried about this have an insecurity or a major weakness. If you think you can keep her in a prison in her country think again. You are on her turf. This is why some Chinese guys lie in wait for what are mostly loser betas to bring one to the US for them. Some alpha white guys pluck foreign women off losers too. If you really want to keep any woman in the US I will tell you a secret. Don't let them work in corporate America, and don't bring lots of men around trying to force them to be friends with them. You keep life simple, they stay simple. The more scheming you have to do, the worse it will be.

Op, if you have to question this, you don't know this woman well enough. Game doesn't stop at marriage either. Keeping a firm hand is required for a healthy household.

TravelerKai - it seems that you are in another reality with these kinds of pie in the sky ideas to suggest that either guys are too much losers, and we need to improve our game to keep a girl in the US of A.

Let's take an example of a girl that is an 8 and the guy is a 6 at best or the guy is getting older 20 years older than the girl. The guy is NOT going to have an easy time keeping such a girl satisfied in the US of A with all the offers that she is going to receive, and she will find this out from girlfriends that she makes in the US of A. You cannot keep such a girl locked up and satisfied.. as much as you think that would be possible and practical....

So in the end, your sense of the real deal seems to be somewhat perverted and/or misdirected in your claim that guys should NOT worry about bringing such girls to the US of A.

Another reality? How so. Be more specific.

A man 20 years older than a woman and bringing her back will automatically have a hard time keeping her inside the US? Prove it. You will find some unlucky sap and I will find another that had the opposite happen. Unless you we can fully examine each person in depth and pick everything apart, its just another anonymous story. What are guys trying to do in the first place? Are you trying to bring back a wife? A glorified girlfriend? A fuck buddy? Sneak a ladyboy back? All women want a man with a plan and a vision. It's not rocket science. Trying to lock up any woman is foolish. Like Nemencine likes to say, "Pussy belongs to no man." You never lock any woman up. They stay with you because they want to be with you. Because they need you. They cannot live without you. You make them feel complete. My wife tells me that I am her world. Women are not phased by great dick strokes in the end. Sex is emotional for them, not physical. Money itself does not keep pussy wet. It's a combination of a few key things. They want security, love/affection, and direction. If you hit all 3 for that woman, she is yours and no one will take her from you. If she leaves it is because of a lapse or failure of one of those 3. A woman with good traditional values is even less likely to jump ship if one or two of those fails, but will instead fight to help you get back on those.

And finally, stay in your lane. Too many guys that cannot handle a Ferrari, get caught up and get pissed and upset when they lose em. You rent or lease exotic cars. You don't buy them unless you can afford the maintenance on them. I know a guy that spends around 800 dollars to change the oil in his lambo. He owns his because he is rich enough to wipe his ass with the cash required to buy one. If you are running around tricking money on hoes that are 8-10s that you could never keep in the US, don't bring them back here then. Get a 7 that is humble. Also, the fact that you associate a man's looks in terms of the female's looks, does not refute my points. Men are graded and judged on what they are and what they accomplished. Not their sheer looks. Especially outside of America. I have seen guys so ugly I would grade them a 4 that had Chinese 8's. Thing is, we don't know what these men have done. We don't know what is in their pocketbooks. Guys in the US go abroad and get girls that are too similar to what they got rid of here, then come back on travel forums and shit all over foreign women. Maybe the problem is with you. Not the women.

Traditional women are more likely to chase the best provider they can find, looks be damned. A woman that is a 10 is not an automatic Ferrari in terms of behavior, but if they are wild, don't try to lock her down. It always ends badly. I have dated many women that are more of a hot rod than my wife and they are not even as pretty as she is. Hoes are community property. Bargirls and women of questionable character are not meant to be locked down. They are the heifers in the pasture free to roam the ranges. You rope it, you fight it.

[Travesty]

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Hoes are community property.

I have never heard this saying, but it makes me feel much better about hoes and how they act.

[JayJuanGee]

First off, TravelerKai, you make a lot of good points, and we may NOT be in disagreement about a large number of your points. Since you make so many points, I will respond to them below.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Another reality? How so. Be more specific.

That characterization may be a little stronger than I had intended it to be, yet part of my point was meant to be that you had seemed to be coming across as if the solution to all of these kinds of situations is merely to be more Alpha in everything and that will help to ensure that a girl stays with you, once in the US.

To me, your tone came off as a bit dogmatic, generalizing and judgmental, even though you may NOT have intended it to be that way.

There are guys from a large number of experiences and ages in this forum, so I expected that your earlier post may have been attempting to pigeonhole guys into certain expectation categories. For example, i am in my late 40s, but I would NOT want to bring a girl/woman 20 years my junior to the US unless I have test driven the relationship quite extensively in a variety of scenarios.

On the other hand, even though I have gotten older, I tend to prefer having relationships with younger women to the extent that it is feasible because I do NOT generally like all the baggage that older women begin to develop and then I have to deal with that variety of extra baggage. In that regard, I would most likely NOT want to bring a girl of 20 or more years my junior back to the US unless I feel she is sufficiently vetted to my liking.. Nonetheless, I have the sense that I would be more easily able to maintain those kinds of relations in a variety of overseas locations without as much fleeing problems from the girl.. because overseas there are different opportunities available as compared in the US.

My earlier response was NOT meant to be about me, but about what any guy may experience, including OP. In that regard, OP would need to weigh the situation and consider the obstacles in light of his own preferences and risk tolerance.. and flight risk is one of the obstacles if bringing a girl back to the US and then if she is exposed to increase opportunities.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

A man 20 years older than a woman and bringing her back will automatically have a hard time keeping her inside the US? Prove it. You will find some unlucky sap and I will find another that had the opposite happen.

You seem to be attempting to turn this into an argument, and I don't see any reason to argue about something like this. I'm NOT sure what I am in need of proving. There is going to be a risk whenever a guy may attempt to hook up with a girl long term that may NOT be a very close match for his ability to keep her, and age is one of the differences that need to be accounted for.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Unless you we can fully examine each person in depth and pick everything apart, its just another anonymous story. What are guys trying to do in the first place? Are you trying to bring back a wife? A glorified girlfriend? A fuck buddy? Sneak a ladyboy back?

You are correct here. We do need to assess what it is that we are wanting to get from the relationship to make sure that there is a fit, whether for long term or for short term or any other term. I believe that OP was NOT clear exactly on this point, but he seemed to be considering more of a longer term relationship situation.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

All women want a man with a plan and a vision. It's not rocket science.

I don't believe it is rocket science either, but there can be several factors that guys need to consider in order to develop his plan and/or vision and then to modify and reconsider such plan or vision if circumstances warrant such.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Trying to lock up any woman is foolish. Like Nemencine likes to say, "Pussy belongs to no man." You never lock any woman up. They stay with you because they want to be with you. Because they need you. They cannot live without you. You make them feel complete. My wife tells me that I am her world. Women are not phased by great dick strokes in the end. Sex is emotional for them, not physical. Money itself does not keep pussy wet. It's a combination of a few key things.

If we are talking about a longer term relationship, and you are wanting to work on creating these dynamics because that is what you are looking for, then I agree with your above.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

They want security, love/affection, and direction. If you hit all 3 for that woman, she is yours and no one will take her from you. If she leaves it is because of a lapse or failure of one of those 3. A woman with good traditional values is even less likely to jump ship if one or two of those fails, but will instead fight to help you get back on those.

Yes, if you are looking for a Long term relation - LTR, then this may be a fairly comprehensive list of three, if that LTR is what a guy wants to get into.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

And finally, stay in your lane. Too many guys that cannot handle a Ferrari, get caught up and get pissed and upset when they lose em. You rent or lease exotic cars. You don't buy them unless you can afford the maintenance on them. I know a guy that spends around 800 dollars to change the oil in his lambo. He owns his because he is rich enough to wipe his ass with the cash required to buy one. If you are running around tricking money on hoes that are 8-10s that you could never keep in the US, don't bring them back here then. Get a 7 that is humble.

A guy will have to come to his own judgement regarding whether he believes a girl is out of his league or NOT or whether he believes that he can handle her. If he makes a bad judgement, then he should have an escape plan that does NOT cause him to get screwed over. And, if he does get screwed over to make sure that the screwing over is NOT too bad to deal with.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Also, the fact that you associate a man's looks in terms of the female's looks, does not refute my points. Men are graded and judged on what they are and what they accomplished. Not their sheer looks. Especially outside of America. I have seen guys so ugly I would grade them a 4 that had Chinese 8's. Thing is, we don't know what these men have done. We don't know what is in their pocketbooks.

I was just attempting to make a quick example by using age as a consideration and the rating system also... just to make a point about how these may need to be taken into account when there is a difference between them. Otherwise, I largely agree with the points that you are making, here.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Guys in the US go abroad and get girls that are too similar to what they got rid of here, then come back on travel forums and shit all over foreign women. Maybe the problem is with you. Not the women.

You are referring to an experience that I am NOT clear about whether guys on various forums shit on girls because the guys made bad judgements or that they got screwed.

I do NOT generally have those kinds of perceptions of myself getting screwed by women because of relationships that I have gotten into, though sometimes a person can get into all kinds of relationships in which the expectations are different based on geography and culture, and then the relationship may NOT work out in part because the relationship was rushed into or that some factors may have changed over time. I have had these kinds of circumstances develop in my relationship, but I do NOT hold grudges, even if the girl was the one that seemed to have been disingenuous with her portrayal of her intentions.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Traditional women are more likely to chase the best provider they can find, looks be damned.

This tends to be true in a lot of situations whether the women are traditional or NOT.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

A woman that is a 10 is not an automatic Ferrari in terms of behavior, but if they are wild, don't try to lock her down. It always ends badly. I have dated many women that are more of a hot rod than my wife and they are not even as pretty as she is. Hoes are community property. Bargirls and women of questionable character are not meant to be locked down. They are the heifers in the pasture free to roam the ranges. You rope it, you fight it.

I largely agree with this series of statements.

[20Nation]

I just went on a date with a Ukrainian girl last night that worked for one of those Ukrainian dating set up companies. She was paid to message older guys and pretend she liked them. This girl had no regrets about taking these guys money for nothing. I wouldn't count on a Ukranian girl that falls in love with you without ever meeting you to be 100% legit. I would maybe spend some time with her in Europe.

[Antipodean]

IKE wrote: "...regularly fucked her and hung out with her THROUGH AT LEAST ONE MENSTRUAL period..." lol
That right there is some great universal advice.

[Antipodean]

At least she was a real girl.
A lot of the time it's Boris and some stock photos of a girl.

(08-14-2014 02:49 AM)20Nation Wrote:  

I just went on a date with a Ukrainian girl last night that worked for one of those Ukrainian dating set up companies. She was paid to message older guys and pretend she liked them. This girl had no regrets about taking these guys money for nothing. I wouldn't count on a Ukranian girl that falls in love with you without ever meeting you to be 100% legit. I would maybe spend some time with her in Europe.

[20Nation]

(08-14-2014 05:19 AM)Antipodean Wrote:  

At least she was a real girl.
A lot of the time it's Boris and some stock photos of a girl.

(08-14-2014 02:49 AM)20Nation Wrote:  

I just went on a date with a Ukrainian girl last night that worked for one of those Ukrainian dating set up companies. She was paid to message older guys and pretend she liked them. This girl had no regrets about taking these guys money for nothing. I wouldn't count on a Ukranian girl that falls in love with you without ever meeting you to be 100% legit. I would maybe spend some time with her in Europe.

She also said she went to get professional photos done of her and they said they would do it for free if they could use her pictures on a dating website. She said they put sponges in her bra and did all sorts of things to get the best possible pictures. And the person on that profile wasn't even her. Craziness

[Onto]

TravelarKai makes some great points.

One thing I'll add is that even if you have a rock solid pre-nup from what I've read you are still financially responsible for her as soon as she steps foot on land. How much? At least 125% over the poverty line. Currently $19,662/year ($1,638/month) For how long? Depends, but if she isn't a hard woker or becomes a citizen, then forever.

That's how I interpret what I've read, please correct me if I'm wrong.

A link to the rules. Straightforward and sobering.

http://www.immihelp.com/affidavit-of-sup...tions.html

http://www.immihelp.com/affidavit-of-sup...lines.html

[Dantes]

You haven't provided enough details about her and yourself. With that said, It would be ill advised to bring her over on the fiancé visa if you haven't spend considerable time with her in person. If you haven't me her, either grab your balls and meet her in Ukraine for fly to turkey and meet here there. She won't need a visa and you can think of it as a nice vacation if it doesn't work out.


My friend in the us just married a Brazilian girl 20 years younger. They did the whole fiancé visa. However, they spent
considerable time together. They dated long distance for well over a year in which he took several trips to Brazil. He did his due diligence in learning about her culture, meeting her family, and spending as much time with her as possible

By all means meet this girl but proceed with caution. I think a lot more guys will consider this option after hitting 45 or so. It has already been discussed in this forum that the divorce rate is much lower when marrying a foreign women.

What kind of women do you normally date and bang? If you consistently pull 7s in the us, I think a Ukrainian 8 is realistic. If you have little experience with attractive women, marrying a hot Ukrainian might be setting yourself up for failure.

Keep us posted.

[Constitution45]

Ah there really are no short cuts. I exclusively date EE/Russian women, even here in the U.K. There is a reason for that, they are higher quality in looks, personality and femininity but if you don't have a strong frame they will tear you apart. Especially in the U.S where the culture, legal system can stack up the odds against you. You haven't given too much details about yourself, so its hard to judge the whole situation.

By all means go for it, but I would advise living with her in her home country for a while, also looking around for other women. The ones who express a strong desire to live abroad should be treated at arms length. However the homey patriotic ones who want to stay are going to be better to hook up with for serious relationships.

Anecdotally speaking a lot of these Russian/UA girls end up going back to their own men in the long run. People can insult their sense of dress style and aggressive approaching as much as possible, but they have strong inner game and combine that Alpha/Beta characteristic which their women poach for. Most men in the West are either clowns with their dicks out, or are too domesticated, both of which are exploitable.

[apolis]

I have to tell you that a guy I knew had a ukrainian girlfriend living with him. After six months she took all the money he had home(30K) and went back to Ukraine. He never saw her again.

[TravelerKai]

(08-14-2014 08:07 AM)Onto Wrote:  

TravelarKai makes some great points.

One thing I'll add is that even if you have a rock solid pre-nup from what I've read you are still financially responsible for her as soon as she steps foot on land. How much? At least 125% over the poverty line. Currently $19,662/year ($1,638/month) For how long? Depends, but if she isn't a hard woker or becomes a citizen, then forever.

That's how I interpret what I've read, please correct me if I'm wrong.

A link to the rules. Straightforward and sobering.

http://www.immihelp.com/affidavit-of-sup...tions.html

http://www.immihelp.com/affidavit-of-sup...lines.html

Eh, usually it is about 2 years. After that they can become welfare queens. That is if you divorce her within the first 5 years at worst. Some women that come here on K1's that flip out or divorce as soon as they get a green card, have no intentions of taking anything from the man, because they just want the damn green card. Some are genuine golddiggers and will look to take all benefits they are "entitled" to and will ask other foreign women on message boards on how to apply for X, who is a good lawyer for X, etc.

If you married her for a longer time than 2 or 5 years, usually your state's divorce laws will rape you well enough for that not to matter.

[Menace]

Traveler is totally on point. Posts like this, and I don't mean the OP specifically, have a subtext. To me that subtext is: I'm not good enough to get what I want here, so I will go overseas to find a woman way above me in SMV and then live happily ever after. This is different from a man who CAN get what he wants here, but nevertheless goes overseas to get a girl because there is a wider selection of his preferred type in their native country. And here I'm talking about marriage.

You can date Ukrainian women right here in the US of A (or whatever nationality you prefer). You want young, attracitve Ukrainian girls? Any major city that has au pairs has them. Find them and fuck them (no, it's not trivial, but it is not SO challenging, yes I have done it). Forget about feminism, and the corrupting nature of American culture, and all that stuff. These are just excuses. They can be overcome. Sometimes I sense guys don't want to work that hard, because why should they? It's a kind of male entitlement. You need to be a leader to the woman. You need to get in her head. I have done some really awful things to girls (not intentionally) lately, and they still come back. There is almost no limit to what they will submit to once you have them. This is not to say that you should treat them badly, you should not, but also there is no need to fear being merciless when the situation calls for it.

Maybe this is all unfair. Maybe it should be like Leave it to Beaver. But if you want to live in the US, that's how it is today. So adapt.

That being said, if you want to marry a foreign girl, you need to diagram your future life. Literally, write out a timeline of what you hope will happen. Where you will live, what she will do, who her (and your) friends will be, where will your children go to school, etc. If there are too many blanks or uncertainties, you don't have a real plan and things can really go downhill fast. It is better to have some plan that you need to modify than playing it by ear and hoping for the best.

As for asset protection, I would place the most valuable assets (house, car, retirement funds) into trusts. Forget pre-nups. Judges can dispense with them for a variety of reasons: can your Ukrainian bride, who is not fluent in English, really be said to understand the document she's sigining? Is the Russian translation (if any) accurate? Easy ways to attack its validity. Trusts are not so easily disposed of.

And of course there are risks associated with everything. You need to do some digging into her background. Who is her family, who are her friends. Girls will leave clues.

[TravelerKai]

(08-14-2014 02:31 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

First off, TravelerKai, you make a lot of good points, and we may NOT be in disagreement about a large number of your points. Since you make so many points, I will respond to them below.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Another reality? How so. Be more specific.

That characterization may be a little stronger than I had intended it to be, yet part of my point was meant to be that you had seemed to be coming across as if the solution to all of these kinds of situations is merely to be more Alpha in everything and that will help to ensure that a girl stays with you, once in the US.

To me, your tone came off as a bit dogmatic, generalizing and judgmental, even though you may NOT have intended it to be that way.

There are guys from a large number of experiences and ages in this forum, so I expected that your earlier post may have been attempting to pigeonhole guys into certain expectation categories. For example, i am in my late 40s, but I would NOT want to bring a girl/woman 20 years my junior to the US unless I have test driven the relationship quite extensively in a variety of scenarios.

On the other hand, even though I have gotten older, I tend to prefer having relationships with younger women to the extent that it is feasible because I do NOT generally like all the baggage that older women begin to develop and then I have to deal with that variety of extra baggage. In that regard, I would most likely NOT want to bring a girl of 20 or more years my junior back to the US unless I feel she is sufficiently vetted to my liking.. Nonetheless, I have the sense that I would be more easily able to maintain those kinds of relations in a variety of overseas locations without as much fleeing problems from the girl.. because overseas there are different opportunities available as compared in the US.

My earlier response was NOT meant to be about me, but about what any guy may experience, including OP. In that regard, OP would need to weigh the situation and consider the obstacles in light of his own preferences and risk tolerance.. and flight risk is one of the obstacles if bringing a girl back to the US and then if she is exposed to increase opportunities.

(08-14-2014 12:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

A man 20 years older than a woman and bringing her back will automatically have a hard time keeping her inside the US? Prove it. You will find some unlucky sap and I will find another that had the opposite happen.

You seem to be attempting to turn this into an argument, and I don't see any reason to argue about something like this. I'm NOT sure what I am in need of proving. There is going to be a risk whenever a guy may attempt to hook up with a girl long term that may NOT be a very close match for his ability to keep her, and age is one of the differences that need to be accounted for.

I don't beat around the bush. I am 30 and have been through alot of shit in life and on marriage number 2. When I see stuff like this I felt like I needed to drop a bomb on it. The more men that can be happy in life the way my foreign marriage has made me, the better I think. It's one of the only ways currently to fix the degeneracy in the US. Guys on this site are anti marriage naturally because most are players with no interest in commitment or because they like repeating the same old tired talking points that float on MGTOW sites, Samseau's antimarriage thread, or other manosphere sites. Most of that stuff is junk from guys that have never bothered to ever get married before nor understand what marriage even is or the sacrifice involved. Even worse, you have guys who have never even been to these countries and are dumping on these women. Others are just too atheist and probably should never use a Christian/religious based institution to begin with.

We are men. Men use critical thinking and solve problems. My first marriage to an American woman fail? Okay, got a divorce. She left me in a bunch of debt? Got financial planning and advice. Had trouble running game on US women? Got help from game gurus and naturals. US women got on my fucking nerves? Got a passport and flew to Asia. Been happier ever since. Problem solved.

We shit on women's ability to use logic all day long, yet when it is our turn to demonstrate an ability to follow a logical progression of solutions with the intent to solve a problem we have, we go backwards and forwards, reverse, spin, and hamster all over the place, ending up with no solutions at all. Much like the women do.

I also agree that all men browsing this forum are all kinds of men, especially on the Travel subforum. It's more chill and informative in here than the other ones. With that said, some of the guys that do not post, and some of the lurkers for sure, would love to find and marry the woman of their dreams. Being a perpetual player forever has little to no appeal to them. Age is not the only factor at play here. My posts were intended to help provide some insight and perhaps provide hope to not just older guys but all guys. If this black guy I met a few months back who is 70 years old and has a tall and pretty 40 year old Chinese wife that is loyal to him, you guys can have the same thing if you want as well.

There are all kinds of opportunities for good wives out there. All this fearmongering is silly. I will extend on something cowboy said though. All the men I know that are still married, like one of my past work bosses has a wife from Lithuania, are all fairly alpha. Not a single one is a beta. In fact the boss above my former boss, had an exwife from Hong Kong, but he is beta as fuck. He described her as a Typical Chinese Tiger Wife with super racist inlaws that called him "white devil" in Cantonese in front of him. He went back to American women and his current wife is holding his balls in her hands. I guess he needs to hear ass rape dialog in English he can feel better about getting raped in the ass. Beta is as Beta does....

Now here is the kicker. Almost every man on RVF, except the trolls, is a go getter. Anyone that even smells a little bit lazy, like that Rotisserie knucklehead that was banned from last night, gets shunned or banned. Men here are not lazy at all. Men here like solutions. That was the biggest reason I followed Vancancier Permanent here. When people drop excellent intel, guys get diligent and work towards making it work. Can you imagine writing lots of datasheets for "men" who are barely a step better than a PUAhate member, and all they do is shit on it and regurgitate a bunch of tired talking points all based around fear of the unknown? Because they have never done it before, so therefore they do not want anyone else to do it either? That's lame. That is not solution based.

If I come off a bit brash, sorry about that but I stand by what I state. I'm like a black version of MikeCF mixed with a little bit of Scorpion, so I will definitely rub some guys the wrong way from time to time. My style is to throw a shoe near your head and hit the wall behind you to get your attention. If it causes us to go back and forth, but ultimately find some solutions for yourself and everyone else, I feel like I did my job. I care alot about you, the others, and the rest of the manosphere, and I have your best interests at heart.

[TravelerKai]

(08-14-2014 09:33 AM)Menace Wrote:  

Traveler is totally on point. Posts like this, and I don't mean the OP specifically, have a subtext. To me that subtext is: I'm not good enough to get what I want here, so I will go overseas to find a woman way above me in SMV and then live happily ever after. This is different from a man who CAN get what he wants here, but nevertheless goes overseas to get a girl because there is a wider selection of his preferred type in their native country. And here I'm talking about marriage.

You can date Ukrainian women right here in the US of A (or whatever nationality you prefer). You want young, attracitve Ukrainian girls? Any major city that has au pairs has them. Find them and fuck them (no, it's not trivial, but it is not SO challenging, yes I have done it). Forget about feminism, and the corrupting nature of American culture, and all that stuff. These are just excuses. They can be overcome. Sometimes I sense guys don't want to work that hard, because why should they? It's a kind of male entitlement. You need to be a leader to the woman. You need to get in her head. I have done some really awful things to girls (not intentionally) lately, and they still come back. There is almost no limit to what they will submit to once you have them. This is not to say that you should treat them badly, you should not, but also there is no need to fear being merciless when the situation calls for it.

Maybe this is all unfair. Maybe it should be like Leave it to Beaver. But if you want to live in the US, that's how it is today. So adapt.

That being said, if you want to marry a foreign girl, you need to diagram your future life. Literally, write out a timeline of what you hope will happen. Where you will live, what she will do, who her (and your) friends will be, where will your children go to school, etc. If there are too many blanks or uncertainties, you don't have a real plan and things can really go downhill fast. It is better to have some plan that you need to modify than playing it by ear and hoping for the best.

As for asset protection, I would place the most valuable assets (house, car, retirement funds) into trusts. Forget pre-nups. Judges can dispense with them for a variety of reasons: can your Ukrainian bride, who is not fluent in English, really be said to understand the document she's sigining? Is the Russian translation (if any) accurate? Easy ways to attack its validity. Trusts are not so easily disposed of.

And of course there are risks associated with everything. You need to do some digging into her background. Who is her family, who are her friends. Girls will leave clues.

THIS!^
I totally forgot to mention the SMV aspect. That is perfect. Guys like that Steven guy that married Sandy the Chinese girl in that stupid foreign wives documentary directed by some stuck up ABC woman, cause their own issues. The dude works at an airport as a baggage checker or something. He even comes off as borderline retarded and he was definitely super lazy. He lucked out that his wife was ultimately loyal to him and stayed.

If any man wants a marriage it takes work to find the right one, work to get married, and work to ensure the success of the marriage.

I know two guys through their foreign wives, that moved out to the countryside on purpose (like Alabama and Wisconsin), in order to keep their foreign wives better. One works in a grocery store and the other is just a rich land owner/farmer. These women can speak some English, are 6-7, and spend time on those same forums for foreign wives. They probably think these women are locked in, trapped, and controlled. Bullshit. These guys have no idea. You cannot hide anything from these smart and resourceful women. These guys are lucky these particular women are too traditional to jump ship on them for a green card and exploit their betaness, but they better not treat them badly, because they know what to do.

[jimukr104]

Chinese in general have low divorce rates and marrying isn't often unpractical infatuation like in the west. My brothers wife is Chinese, came when she was 2-4 yrs old ,so basically American but the Chinese stay together. The women marry betas but come to think about it the women tend to look beta as well.

FSU girls are another matter. And you don't need to worry about losers in a club getting them from you. It will be a richer more generous guy of higher status or a brother from her homeland. They go by logic..it won't be emotional.

Also one needs to not use word EE. Polish and Romanian will be completely different than a FSU girl(RU/UA,ETC).

[samsamsam]

There is a show called "90 Day Fiance" it got renewed for another season and I am sure you can dig up the first season somewhere.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-32090.html

There was on couple that didn't appear on the show but did on the website and it seems like she took him for a ride. I suggest watching this as part of your decision making process.

[Dantes]

Uzisuicide, you should provide more details on your background and the Ukrainian girl if you want to elicite informed opinions. Judgments on your specific situation are conjecture at this point without specific information. This thread has already been derailed with the larger issues of marriage and marrying a foreign woman. If you are looking for guidance from experienced members specific to your situation you will best be served by providing more information.

[rudebwoy]

Average Western guy is no match for these girls. These girls are about money and status, if you can't provide that they are gone. Not saying all of them are like this, I have seen enough of them to keep my distance.
Look at what Mel Gibson went through with his Ukrainian girl, then again what did he expect.

[samsamsam]

(08-14-2014 11:20 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Average Western guy is no match for these girls. These girls are about money and status, if you can't provide that they are gone. Not saying all of them are like this, I have seen enough of them to keep my distance.
Look at what Mel Gibson went through with his Ukrainian girl, then again what did he expect.

Didn't hear about Mel's breakup. Had to google it.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...rieva.html