[TravelerKai]

(09-30-2014 03:13 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Kai, why is it that you can post pics of Chiense models but nothing else? I am just trying to get an idea of what a normal cute Chinese girl looks like, but you seem upset that I ask and that I tried to post what pictures I could find after you refused to show anything but models.

Whatever, I started a thread asking my specific question.

Walter Black, thanks for answering saying the girls I posted looked plain to you.

You did not answer my questions, why should I take yours seriously? Then you trolled my thread with garbage pictures, trying to be dick about it. You claim there is a misunderstanding, but there is no misunderstanding. You are trolling my thread and trying to be slick about it by playing dumb. Those girls are like 2-5. Any idiot can see that. That girl I posted is an actual girl you could talk to. She is not some bitch with an agent, some booking PR manager, or other kind of handler. If you think she is too pretty or fake to be a legit regular girl, that's on you.

I already explained to you that I cannot provide pictures of random women from the street. I just don't have that. Google does not have that. Try using a Chinese search engine (baidu.com). Echinacities.com used to do photos from the streets of Chongqing, Beijing, and Chengdu, or whatever but I do not have stuff like that. That is still outside of the scope of this thread. Pursue that in another thread. This is about dating and dating strategies only.

My entire guide is based upon my own personal experiences and knowledge. It is purely anecdotal and will stay that way to prevent me from getting doxxed. If you cannot believe anything I am reporting or writing about without hard proof. I am very sorry. Maybe in the future someone who can show their face can make youtube videos and provide proof of their lays like some other datasheets do. My guide is more like a book and not alot like the traditional datasheet. What you see here that I write is all I can show. Take it for what it is. It's just intel from Travelerkai. That's it. No warranty, no guarantees, just raw intel. Period.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Kai Brother,
Please do take the time to write about getting and dating models in China. I'm highly interested in that topic. I'd be very happy with a model Chinese gf in China and have a mini relationship with her, initially, then, possibly more if affinity. Take her with me on my trips. Would be up for that.

Btw, signed up a free account on chinalovecupid.com and the talent is alright, nothing to be excited about. As we all experienced travellers know and have experienced, the talent online in many countries is nothing to be excited about while the real lookers are not online as they don't need it, but rather, on the ground.

Sonsowey,
Kai gave you a very in depth answer about the talent level in mainland China. He explained to you that what you see around you in the US is very far from being quality as only the nerdy types make it there. He also clearly explained to you that Google is banned in China and so is FB. Hence very hard to find pics of average Chinese girls on the ground. But even if he or anyone could post pics of average Chinese girls, they would be irrelevant to you or me or most guys on the forums. As we wouldn't be going half way around the world for the average but rather the above average and the higher end talent. And speaking of talent, rest assured that the level is truly very high inside China.

I have friends in China who show me pics of the girls they are playing with on a regular basis and these are good looking girls. And I've been to China and what I saw was overwhelming. Seas of adorably adorable to stunning girls dressed in a very feminine and fashionable way. No amount of pics anyone could show you could give you an accurate idea of what's out there. Only way to do it, seriously and meaningfully, is for you, to personally get in that plane and go to China. Then you will understand. And once there, you will be kicking yourself for having waited too long before going to Asia and China in this particular case. It's really that good!

If you have an opportunity to go love and work in China, you'd be a fool not to take it. It will be a truly unique opportunity which will change your mind and your life. Not only women wise but also biz and professional wise as China is THE land of endless opportunities par excellence!

Cheers.

[TravelerKai]

Exceptional post VP. I could not have said it any better.
Thanks.

I will drop a mini sheet in this thread on that when I get these other projects done.

[clever alias]

I don't know, I personally was not overly impressed with what I saw in China. almost no fatties and they dressed fairly well (or at least, not uggs and sweatpants), but I saw few stunners. I'd describe very few chinese girls as hot, but a lot of them are cute

[Global Entry]

I posted pictures of girls just walking around Shenzhen, not ones that I thought were stunners, just the normal types you'd look twice at who are around in normal places every day. Its on my shenzhen data sheet, in my signature. Shenzhen, as WB mentioned, has not just Cantonese, but people who emigrated from all over Shenzhen. China has cute girls, beautiful ones, girls without a clue how do make themselves look better, butter-faces aplenty, and ugly girls. Fatties even exist, though not many (and fewer down south).

Tickets are cheap. Its really cheap once you get there. The thread is telling you what to do once you arrive. If you don't like it, bounce to the Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand or Cambodia if you give it a fair shot. But go. No one can experience it for you, pictures cannot communicate it accurately - attraction is more (really) than a bunch of pixels. The worst thing you'll come back with is a semi-informed opinion.

[TravelerKai]

Chinese women are not for everyone. I know a guy that taught English in China for 2 years. He is 6'3 not ugly, a little bit chubby, white guy from Texas, etc. He never even dated 1 woman the entire time he was there. He did not fuck even one girl the entire time he was there. The more I tried to talk to him about Chinese women the more he wanted to change the subject. He told me that he did not find them attractive. He was dating a fat white girl in Texas that I would grade a 4 and most of RVF would call a 2/10 WNB. Sometimes you gotta remember that some guys won't date women they cannot marry for race/racism/cultural/ reasons. I asked him if he parents would have minded if he wanted a Chinese girl and he said yeah. It reminded me of why I found it nearly impossible to date higher quality white girls in Texas. Their parents would kill them. Black men in the south commonly get the fat white leftovers. Fucking a Tyrone for fun is one thing. Marrying any kind of black man was a big no-no.

Anyway, Chinese women are not for everyone. They have the same issues outlined in Beyond Border's Asian thread. Some people find Chinese culture a turn off and few people can make these women change their culture and values easily. They are stubborn about certain things, race stuff aside. Some people cannot find anyone not fat attractive and some crave large ass too much to want to date a Chinese woman. It's outside the scope of this thread to debate whether that shit is wrong, right, beta, racist, etc. but we have to acknowledge that these biases are in play when we discuss dating Chinese women. Global made a wonderful point. A trip would at minimum allow someone to have at least a semi-informed opinion.

[elcidcampeador]

A good gaming trip would be one week in Taipei and then one week in a city in China that isn't BJ,SZ,SH,or HK.

I would estimate that 90% of those who do this kind of trip would return to Taipei to bang 20 more girls.

Putting in the big cities would probably still yield a 75% preference of Taipei - those girls are just way more into foreigners than mainlanders are and are very open about a ONS.

I did have some ONS in China but I had to seduce them with my 东北话. I literally sound like a blue collar worker from Changchun when I speak Mandarin.

[Vacancier Permanent]

I heard and saw some very pretty girls from Chengdu and Chongqing! These will be the 2 cities I will spending most time upon my return to China.
I know there are guys in here who have spent a fair amount of time even some who have lived in these cities. Would be awesome to hear their thoughts girls in these highly praised cities for the high volume of high quality girls there.

[TravelerKai]

(10-01-2014 01:59 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

I heard and saw some very pretty girls from Chengdu and Chongqing! These will be the 2 cities I will spending most time upon my return to China.
I know there are guys in here who have spent a fair amount of time even some who have lived in these cities. Would be awesome to hear their thoughts girls in these highly praised cities for the high volume of high quality girls there.

Chengdu women are spicy and I am not talking about the food either. The are the original tiger wife. They are worth dating regardless of all that. They make sure a brother is NEVER hungry! Just make sure they do not cross your boundaries. If they are tigers, you will know it without alot of elaborate breakdowns from me.

Chongqing women are notorious in China for having the nicest and smoothest skin. They always rank number 1 in beauty in any poll done in China. Having met a handful myself I agree. They tend not to date online much either because they do not need to. The ones that do are almost always older, like 27+ and if they are smoking hot, the reason why they date only is possibly because they are too rich or educated/successful to get along with the local men at that age. Local men would rather snag a 20 year old with a fresher albeit less pretty face and tighter pussy than a smoking hot 27 year old. Chinese men claim there is something in the waters that come from the mountain and the local springs that make Chongqing women so pretty.

Chongqing and Chengdu are kinda like neighbors. So if you can visit one, check out the other too! There are some famous UNESCO World Heritage Sites in Sichuan/Chengdu like their famous caverns. That would be a nice place to go with a pretty girl for a visit. The Giant Panda Reserve is another good one. Open a girl about wanting to see those things and let her get all excited about taking you there. I have done that toooo many times before and it has never failed me.

[GyopoPlayboy]

Kai,

I'm not trying to defend Chinese men and their actions, but things would make a lot more sense if viewed through the prism of Confucianism, which is the philosophy at the heart of their culture. At the very core of Confucianism is the belief that everything is structured by hierarchies.

The King over his people.
The Teacher over the student.
The Father over the family.
The Man over the woman.

Knowing what I do now, I view Chinese men largely as victims of their own culture, rather than as uncultured or backwards misogynists. They've got a steep learning curve ahead of them and a horrible gender imbalance to deal with. Things are really going to suck for them in the coming decades. A few will be able to get something, either because they'll have money or because they'll adapt to the change. But most will end up having to shame their women into marrying (playing off their fears of becoming an old maid at the age of 25), humiliate them if they're with a foreigner (playing off their fears of becoming socially outcast), or use some other form of social pressure that derives from adherence to the Confucian philosophy.

You, as an American, are benefiting from this because the woman you married is also a product of this culture. The reason she treats you so well is because she has been trained to place the man above herself. It's Confucianism at its finest. It's why their men are the way they are, but it also explains the women too.

So while I've already repped you on what is an exhaustive and thorough data sheet that I will most definitely use as reference, I can't help but think that the things you like or dislike about the Chinese are just two sides of the same coin.

And also...the way Chinese women are now...I'm pretty sure it will change. Women in China may be like this for now...but give it 20, 30, 40 years and Chinese women will start behaving more and more like the Western women we are all trying to leave behind. As much as the Chinese government tries to control the flow of information, the people can still (quite easily) gain access to the latest Western movies, tv shows, and music where men aren't being misogynists or treating women like lower-class lifeforms. They've watched romantic comedies where *gasp* the man fucks up and he does everything he can to win the skeptical girl's affections back. Not at all like how Chinese men walk around thinking they own their women by birthright.

Because of business trips, I've spent quite a lot of time this past year in places like SZ, GZ, SH, BJ, and HK. I was amazed at how...American? Westernized? (not sure what's the right word here) a lot of Chinese girls were in the way they acted, thought, and talked.

My personal thoughts on China is: if you like Asian women and want to get in while the getting's good, there's no better time than now. I'm really not very bullish on the possibility that it will stay this way forever.

[clever alias]

chinese society today is not confucian. they pay lip service to it, but they're capitalist through and through. mao made sure confucianism is a thing of the past

[Hornblower]

I'm an ABC of full-blooded eastern Chinese descent myself. I don't speak Mandarin fluently but my native language is Shanghainese. Real Shanghai people have a strong level of contempt for people from northern Jiangsu and northern Anhui. Shanghainese people and other eastern Chinese even have a equivalent of the n-word for those people that is still considered to be extremely derogatory and offensive. And real Shanghainese often look down upon other eastern Chinese, which I think is hypocritical since they all share the same ancestors, speak dialects of the same language and share a similar regional culture. Only a tiny minority of 'native' Shanghainese are descended from the original inhabitants. Yes, there is a gender imbalance but a lot of women don't want anything to do with poorer men from the inland provinces. I tend to prefer eastern Chinese women because of cultural and aesthetic reasons, but to a large extent I'm put off by the Chinese culture in general. I've heard of stories where Chinese girls demand their boyfriends do ridiculous things. I'm not exactly sure how well I do in China since it's been a while since I lived there.

[GyopoPlayboy]

@clever alias,

I know what you mean to say but you're confusing 2 different things. Confucianism is a philosophy, not an economic system. Its entirely possible for both of these to coexist side by side.

And they do.

Mao didnt get rid of Confucianism. You can't "get rid" of what has basically been at the root of a culture for thousands of years.

[clever alias]

(10-02-2014 06:51 AM)GyopoPlayboy Wrote:  

@clever alias,

I know what you mean to say but you're confusing 2 different things. Confucianism is a philosophy, not an economic system. Its entirely possible for both of these to coexist side by side.

And they do.

Mao didnt get rid of Confucianism. You can't "get rid" of what has basically been at the root of a culture for thousands of years.

yes you can, and mao did. it was called the cultural revolution

[TravelerKai]

(10-01-2014 03:11 PM)GyopoPlayboy Wrote:  

Kai,

I'm not trying to defend Chinese men and their actions, but things would make a lot more sense if viewed through the prism of Confucianism, which is the philosophy at the heart of their culture. At the very core of Confucianism is the belief that everything is structured by hierarchies.

The King over his people.
The Teacher over the student.
The Father over the family.
The Man over the woman.

Knowing what I do now, I view Chinese men largely as victims of their own culture, rather than as uncultured or backwards misogynists. They've got a steep learning curve ahead of them and a horrible gender imbalance to deal with. Things are really going to suck for them in the coming decades. A few will be able to get something, either because they'll have money or because they'll adapt to the change. But most will end up having to shame their women into marrying (playing off their fears of becoming an old maid at the age of 25), humiliate them if they're with a foreigner (playing off their fears of becoming socially outcast), or use some other form of social pressure that derives from adherence to the Confucian philosophy.

You, as an American, are benefiting from this because the woman you married is also a product of this culture. The reason she treats you so well is because she has been trained to place the man above herself. It's Confucianism at its finest. It's why their men are the way they are, but it also explains the women too.

So while I've already repped you on what is an exhaustive and thorough data sheet that I will most definitely use as reference, I can't help but think that the things you like or dislike about the Chinese are just two sides of the same coin.

And also...the way Chinese women are now...I'm pretty sure it will change. Women in China may be like this for now...but give it 20, 30, 40 years and Chinese women will start behaving more and more like the Western women we are all trying to leave behind. As much as the Chinese government tries to control the flow of information, the people can still (quite easily) gain access to the latest Western movies, tv shows, and music where men aren't being misogynists or treating women like lower-class lifeforms. They've watched romantic comedies where *gasp* the man fucks up and he does everything he can to win the skeptical girl's affections back. Not at all like how Chinese men walk around thinking they own their women by birthright.

Because of business trips, I've spent quite a lot of time this past year in places like SZ, GZ, SH, BJ, and HK. I was amazed at how...American? Westernized? (not sure what's the right word here) a lot of Chinese girls were in the way they acted, thought, and talked.

My personal thoughts on China is: if you like Asian women and want to get in while the getting's good, there's no better time than now. I'm really not very bullish on the possibility that it will stay this way forever.

I do not dislike Chinese men at all. Don't misunderstand my observations on them as a like or dislike. I know why they are the way they are and you are correct that it allows guys like us to benefit from that.

Trying to predict how much China will change is going to be harder than you think. Alot of the way China is, happens because of it's laws. China will never want to be 100% like the West. No amount of movies created by SJW Hollywood is going to turn China into the West. Chinese like to take or steal things and then make it Chinese Style. China has Chinatowns all over the world. Think about that. It's mindset. They think and act like they have superior culture. They just want the same economic strengths as the West. Will that cause more equality and less misogyny? Yes. But will that be at the extent of what you see in the US? I highly doubt that buddy. You cannot even protest in China.

A women's rights protest some months back in Guangzhou only had 3-4 women protesting and the police arrested them and broke it up. They might have even executed one of them. If feminists cannot spread their message on a street level, it's useless. How can they even hope to change any laws? Men still get first dibs on kids in the divorce. Public shaming and public justice is pervasive and everywhere. Older women still monitor other women for violators of the 1 child policy and make sure they pay up or get the abortion. When China wants to crack down on anything, it gets fucking done in minutes. Not 8 years without any action like the US congress. Why do you think some Manosphere writers out there are starting to prefer 1 person rule over democracies? Alot of the decline you see in the US is due to its representative style democracy. The tyranny of the majority has always been a problem for this government style. Now that women are the "majority" (Voting numbers wise and vocally) they are creating a PC climate and removing all consequences for their actions. You cannot predict something like this happening under an Authoritarian rule in some arbitrary year count, like 40 years from now. It would take something alot bigger than what they have now to cause that.

If anything, women might get a little more spoiled. How spoiled? Anybody's guess. One could say that they are very spoiled compared to 10 years ago. Can they get hyper spoiled like an American woman? I think it will be spoiled, but once again spoiled "Chinese Style". They will take selfies, want LV bags, and throw fits more. The Fu Er Dai (Second Generation Rich) are all like this now. That said, some of them still serve their men food and sex him or allow him to fuck other girls on the side. I know some like this now. How much worse can they get from that? I only turned some of these women down just for having a whiny voice or immaturity, I honestly did not care too much that they were rich. They were not anywhere near as bad as an American woman. They are still very loyal. Some that means alot more to me than anything else because American women stab people in the back too much and cheat. They are quick to tell the police you did something to them and hide behind daddy govt. Chinese women have no idea what that concept even means because you can never do that in China.

[TravelerKai]

(10-01-2014 09:36 PM)Hornblower Wrote:  

I'm an ABC of full-blooded eastern Chinese descent myself. I don't speak Mandarin fluently but my native language is Shanghainese. Real Shanghai people have a strong level of contempt for people from northern Jiangsu and northern Anhui. Shanghainese people and other eastern Chinese even have a equivalent of the n-word for those people that is still considered to be extremely derogatory and offensive. And real Shanghainese often look down upon other eastern Chinese, which I think is hypocritical since they all share the same ancestors, speak dialects of the same language and share a similar regional culture. Only a tiny minority of 'native' Shanghainese are descended from the original inhabitants. Yes, there is a gender imbalance but a lot of women don't want anything to do with poorer men from the inland provinces. I tend to prefer eastern Chinese women because of cultural and aesthetic reasons, but to a large extent I'm put off by the Chinese culture in general. I've heard of stories where Chinese girls demand their boyfriends do ridiculous things. I'm not exactly sure how well I do in China since it's been a while since I lived there.

That might be your problem right there. Everyone knows Shanghainese are the more spoiled rotten Chinese women in China. I posted this in my last post:

Quote:

If anything, women might get a little more spoiled. How spoiled? Anybody's guess. One could say that they are very spoiled compared to 10 years ago. Can they get hyper spoiled like an American woman? I think it will be spoiled, but once again spoiled "Chinese Style". They will take selfies, want LV bags, and throw fits more. The Fu Er Dai (Second Generation Rich) are all like this now. That said, some of them still serve their men food and sex him or allow him to fuck other girls on the side. I know some like this now. How much worse can they get from that? I only turned some of these women down just for having a whiny voice or immaturity, I honestly did not care too much that they were rich. They were not anywhere near as bad as an American woman. They are still very loyal. Some that means alot more to me than anything else because American women stab people in the back too much and cheat. They are quick to tell the police you did something to them and hide behind daddy govt. Chinese women have no idea what that concept even means because you can never do that in China.

Even if they are spoiled, they are still very loyal and make decent LTRs and wives. Here is the trick to it though. Stay in your lane. Don't chase Ferraris, if you cannot handle them. If a BMW 3 class is something you can handle, that is still a good one. Get a chick that you can grow old with. A younger one is one you can mold and if you choose a sheng nu, get one that if she is spoiled, it's a spoiledness that means nothing to you.

My fatherinlaw tells my wife that she is so spoiled all the time after meeting me. To me she isn't spoiled at all. I still understand where he is coming from though because compared to how she was brought up, she lives like a queen. The values are still there though, and hammered in at that. If Chinese people, especially the women are stubborn about lots of things, use that to your advantage! Get one whose stubbornness is a sheer benefit to you.

Either do that or expand your horizons brother and date non Shanghainese. What's wrong with the surrounding area's women?

[TravelerKai]

(10-02-2014 06:51 AM)GyopoPlayboy Wrote:  

@clever alias,

I know what you mean to say but you're confusing 2 different things. Confucianism is a philosophy, not an economic system. Its entirely possible for both of these to coexist side by side.

And they do.

Mao didnt get rid of Confucianism. You can't "get rid" of what has basically been at the root of a culture for thousands of years.

This is correct. The new law that mandates that they must go visit their parents is pure Confucianism policy. It is not dead at all.

Mao also was not the staunch capitalist. That was Deng. He is responsible for most of all the capitalistic stuff you see today. He was frustrated with Mao for being too interested in never ending revolution. Deng wanted economic growth and to make China strong in that way and all that socialism stuff was kind of a hindrance to doing that.

This is all somewhat debatable (about Deng) but I do not think anyone would seriously call Mao a staunch capitalist. That's not correct at all.

[TravelerKai]

(10-02-2014 08:22 AM)clever alias Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 06:51 AM)GyopoPlayboy Wrote:  

@clever alias,

I know what you mean to say but you're confusing 2 different things. Confucianism is a philosophy, not an economic system. Its entirely possible for both of these to coexist side by side.

And they do.

Mao didnt get rid of Confucianism. You can't "get rid" of what has basically been at the root of a culture for thousands of years.

yes you can, and mao did. it was called the cultural revolution

The Cultural Revolution had nothing to do with capitalism. If anything it sought to destroy all semblances of capitalism. Mao fashioned it after Marxism and Leninism. It was designed to be a grassroots socialism program. This is a big subject when is not really in scope of this thread but Mao overall wanted to make China strong through hard work/labor, make things efficient, and create a unified China for the first time ever. He also wanted to destroy any amount of descent from this unified doctrine. The biggest problem with Mao is that he never wanted to actually end the revolution and move the country forward. He was insecure and knew that his brainwashed followers would do anything for him if they always had an imaginary enemy to chase (eg. the Red Guards chasing people, etc). So he basically kept the revolution going non-stop. He never got off the revolution train and as a result millions starved to death (possibly more than back in WW2), were killed, and it set China back progress wise many decades. That's not capitalism. There was no free enterprise during his rule.

China was so bad when he was done Deng literally had to start all over from the beginning. Anyone educated was killed or made into a farmer for so long, they had no specialists and to use labor again to borrow and steal until they could get the knowledge on many things back to start rebuilding the country.

[clever alias]

(10-02-2014 10:21 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 06:51 AM)GyopoPlayboy Wrote:  

@clever alias,

I know what you mean to say but you're confusing 2 different things. Confucianism is a philosophy, not an economic system. Its entirely possible for both of these to coexist side by side.

And they do.

Mao didnt get rid of Confucianism. You can't "get rid" of what has basically been at the root of a culture for thousands of years.

This is correct. The new law that mandates that they must go visit their parents is pure Confucianism policy. It is not dead at all.

Mao also was not the staunch capitalist. That was Deng. He is responsible for most of all the capitalistic stuff you see today. He was frustrated with Mao for being too interested in never ending revolution. Deng wanted economic growth and to make China strong in that way and all that socialism stuff was kind of a hindrance to doing that.

This is all somewhat debatable (about Deng) but I do not think anyone would seriously call Mao a staunch capitalist. That's not correct at all.

i think youve proven my point, they introduced a law to enforce a traditional value because people dont do it anymore.

but lets go further with it
1. altrusim: this speaks for itself. chinese are anything but altruistic, ranging from the lack of a good samaritan law to letting a 2 year literally die in a gutter.
2. loyaly: somewhat, not nearly as ingrained in the society as in japan.
3. piety: again, somewhat, more for economic reasons than anything else. people save a lot of money and depend on their kids when they get older because theres no SS benefits, but again, even this is going out of style as people leave home to find work.
4. relationships: changing all the time as more and more women ascend the corporate ladder. they are getting choosier and the dynamic is radically changing

[clever alias]

(10-02-2014 10:33 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 08:22 AM)clever alias Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 06:51 AM)GyopoPlayboy Wrote:  

@clever alias,

I know what you mean to say but you're confusing 2 different things. Confucianism is a philosophy, not an economic system. Its entirely possible for both of these to coexist side by side.

And they do.

Mao didnt get rid of Confucianism. You can't "get rid" of what has basically been at the root of a culture for thousands of years.

yes you can, and mao did. it was called the cultural revolution

The Cultural Revolution had nothing to do with capitalism. If anything it sought to destroy all semblances of capitalism. Mao fashioned it after Marxism and Leninism. It was designed to be a grassroots socialism program. This is a big subject when is not really in scope of this thread but Mao overall wanted to make China strong through hard work/labor, make things efficient, and create a unified China for the first time ever. He also wanted to destroy any amount of descent from this unified doctrine. The biggest problem with Mao is that he never wanted to actually end the revolution and move the country forward. He was insecure and knew that his brainwashed followers would do anything for him if they always had an imaginary enemy to chase (eg. the Red Guards chasing people, etc). So he basically kept the revolution going non-stop. He never got off the revolution train and as a result millions starved to death (possibly more than back in WW2), were killed, and it set China back progress wise many decades. That's not capitalism. There was no free enterprise during his rule.

China was so bad when he was done Deng literally had to start all over from the beginning. Anyone educated was killed or made into a farmer for so long, they had no specialists and to use labor again to borrow and steal until they could get the knowledge on many things back to start rebuilding the country.

really? it was against capitalism? this is history man, 四旧, none of them were capitalism, it was a direct atack against chinese history and culture, which did not include capitalism. that was taken care of in the hundred flowers campaign, though being deemed a capitalist roader usually meant death

[WalterBlack]

One difference between Chinese women and American women:

I remember going to a hotpot restaurant with a mixed group. There were 5 FOB Chinese and Taiwanese women sitting around me. As soon as we sat down, they cooked the food and served it to me. They made sure I got shit to eat. They want to make sure I was comfortable.

This morning I went to a new doctor and the wrinkly old white receptionist had a man cut. I asked her if there was anywhere I could drink water since she I was thirsty. She said “no” and sat down. End of conversation - this bitch didn’t say, “hey I can get you some from the back if you need any”…
---------------------------------------------------------
Some Shanghai women are very shallow – an ex-colleague of mine was visiting China for the first time since she had moved to the US. She told me she had to buy an expensive purse and LV shoes to prepare for her trip. When I asked her why, she said that she had to show her family in China that she had “made it” in America. I said that when I visit UK, my family doesn’t give a fuck about what I wear, they’re just happy to see me! I asked her if her family felt the same way – her face went blank!

[GyopoPlayboy]

@clever alias:

your comments reveal how little you know about China. again, i know what you are trying to get at, but i won't let comments that are inaccurate or misleading to just slide by and misinform others. this is the last i'll say on this topic.

i'd encourage people who really want to know more about china to do their own research. a great resource is The Economist, which has a treasure trove of knowledge regarding China there. it will validate what members like travelerkai and myself are saying.

[GyopoPlayboy]

(10-02-2014 10:04 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

I do not dislike Chinese men at all. Don't misunderstand my observations on them as a like or dislike. I know why they are the way they are and you are correct that it allows guys like us to benefit from that.

Trying to predict how much China will change is going to be harder than you think. Alot of the way China is, happens because of it's laws. China will never want to be 100% like the West. No amount of movies created by SJW Hollywood is going to turn China into the West. Chinese like to take or steal things and then make it Chinese Style. China has Chinatowns all over the world. Think about that. It's mindset. They think and act like they have superior culture. They just want the same economic strengths as the West. Will that cause more equality and less misogyny? Yes. But will that be at the extent of what you see in the US? I highly doubt that buddy. You cannot even protest in China.

...

Looking back on my post, I guess I didn't use the right words to get my point across and I apologize for that.

I didn't mean to insinuate that you dislike Chinese men. I just thought that I could shed some light on why they are the way they are, but judging by your response, it seems I was only preaching to the choir. You have a lot of really deep knowledge about Chinese culture and it shows. I can't give you enough props for that.

Also, I didn't mean to predict how China will be in x amount of years. My comment was mainly in reference to the women. I 100% agree that the Chinese don't want to be a mirror image of the US. They are exceptionally proud (almost to a fault) of their own culture and history and if anything, they will take Western products or ideas and Chinese-ize them to better match the palates and tastes of the Chinese.

When it comes to their women, however, I do think there will be a shift away from the traditional paternalistic Confucian model. It won't be very obvious, but I do believe the way women think ARE changing. They may not start coming out and burning bras or agitating for women's rights, but the way they think IS becoming more "Western" if that makes any sense. How that plays out at the macro level (in relation to the government and the laws they make) is something I am in no position to predict so I won't even try. Since Confucianism is still very much embedded in their culture, it will be a long long time before the government creates laws specifically to defend women over men.

[clever alias]

I'll just say one thing, and then I'll be on my way because I really don't think there's anything left to say.

This forum has a very interesting take on China. It has a "vision in gold" view about it that is mainly perpetuated by people who don't seem to have very much experience actually living in China. There are people who have, but for the most part, a lot of it seems to be circlejerking by fly over stay for a week or two business people or Tim Budong English teachers. Nothing wrong with either of those, but the problem is when the people who haven't lived it are talking loudest. Badwolf drops some hilarious nuggets of truth that are painfully true, but everybody seems to discount it, and the notion of China as the land of endless opportunities and porcelain dolls persists despite some on the ground people saying it's more complicated than that, but maybe I have high standards for what constitutes BOG experience.

TravelerKai probably knows his shit, and he's dropped a lot of good knowledge. I had a different experience (ie I loved night club game), but that could boil down to any number of factors, race, age, city, occupation, ect, and I'd love to have some noodles and beer with him if our paths ever cross in 大陆, but even he's no omnipotent, and China has the funny effect of making how much you think you understand inversely related to the time spent on the ground.

it's getting pretty circlejerky over China, and it doesn't look like it will end any time soon. I'm out.

[berserk]

(10-03-2014 01:16 PM)clever alias Wrote:  

I'll just say one thing, and then I'll be on my way because I really don't think there's anything left to say.

This forum has a very interesting take on China. It has a "vision in gold" view about it that is mainly perpetuated by people who don't seem to have very much experience actually living in China. There are people who have, but for the most part, a lot of it seems to be circlejerking by fly over stay for a week or two business people or Tim Budong English teachers. Nothing wrong with either of those, but the problem is when the people who haven't lived it are talking loudest. Badwolf drops some hilarious nuggets of truth that are painfully true, but everybody seems to discount it, and the notion of China as the land of endless opportunities and porcelain dolls persists despite some on the ground people saying it's more complicated than that, but maybe I have high standards for what constitutes BOG experience.

TravelerKai probably knows his shit, and he's dropped a lot of good knowledge. I had a different experience (ie I loved night club game), but that could boil down to any number of factors, race, age, city, occupation, ect, and I'd love to have some noodles and beer with him if our paths ever cross in 大陆, but even he's no omnipotent, and China has the funny effect of making how much you think you understand inversely related to the time spent on the ground.

it's getting pretty circlejerky over China, and it doesn't look like it will end any time soon. I'm out.

I appreciate other opinions on China and it would be detrimental to only get one side of the story, so please keep posting, it is appreciated.

The thing is, the same could be said for field reports on most countries on this forum. Field reports that hype a place are always going to get more attention than a more leveled field report. It's the same with Thailand where you'll have some guys claiming you'd have to be dead not to fall into pussy and other long timers like BB and RioNomad, myself included too, would say it actually requires game to get attractive non-pro girls. Eye of the beholder.

Likewise, Denmark gets a really bad rep and with good reason for the most part, but for me, it is one of the easiest places in the world for one night stands, easier than Thailand and the Philippines.

Everyone is going to have a different experience, particularly if they're just visiting. I don't think TravelerKai is hyping China, I think he is simply very passionate and enthusiastic about the country and it shows. I think most experienced travelers are past the phase where they think paradise exists on earth anywhere.

You're right though that the forum is bullish on China at the moment, I think for good reason though, but we will see as more people make their way there