[jariel]

You'll find that most talk about Game is really before it even begins.

Communities such as ours are rife with discussions about picking up women as a stranger, texting them, setting up the types of dates with them that hopefully lead to sex, dealing with flaking when the time to link up arrives, etc. Discussions of that nature are actually focused on the pre-game festivities when your existence to the woman you're pursuing is meaningless to her.

That non-existence of you -- as far as she is concerned -- is why she can cancel your pre-planned Happy Hour date while you're sitting at the bar waiting for her without feeling bad about it.

It's the reason she can make out with you vigorously on the dance floor of a night club on Saturday night, yet ignore your text messages on Sunday afternoon while she's lounging on the couch and playing "Tapped Out".

She just doesn't care about you because you don't mean anything to her, at least not yet.

The Game, as Real Talk Sessions sees it, doesn't actually begin until you've had sex with a woman, in which in the immediate aftermath it is imperative to start thinking the game by putting her in a box and making a decision as to how you should proceed forward with this new relationship, which could mean allowing her to have more of a presence in your life or removing her from it entirely.

The Film Room

Football fans surely remember the critically-acclaimed and controversial television show, Playmakers, even though it's been over a decade since it went off the air. Just like this forum blog, it was too real, so real that the NFL pressured ESPN to cancel it's first hit dramatic entertainment series after just one season on the air.

In the series finale, the Cougars' star linebacker Eric Olcyzk finds out that he has impregnated Jenna, a nightclub rat who he had a one-night stand with.

At the time of receiving the dreadful news, he was heading into the fourth quarter of the relationship with his girlfriend Beth, as he had just asked her to move in with him. However, Eric makes a mistake by immediately romanticizing his situation with Jenna into a life in which they are co-parenting a child and thus it becomes necessary for him to put the emergency brakes on the relationship with Beth.

During the conversation in which he delivers the news to his girlfriend, he's oblivious to the reality that the child he made with the groupie was nothing more than a lottery ticket for her, something she had to point out to him, "Trust me, she's beside herself." However, Jenna had no desire to partner with him in raising their child, because that wasn't what it was about for her. Once she became pregnant, she had him establish paternity, and after she got the 99.9% paternity results, she lawyered up to protect her interests and maximize her payday.

What was not included in the short clip above were the consultations that Eric received from his fellow teammates who were veterans in the "Pregnant Jump-Off" game. They all tried to tell him the reality of his situation and the best way to deal with it -- the way they all dealt with it. They even had "a guy" they used for such situations, Carney, who is at the table with Eric when Jenna and her lawyer inform him that she will be raising the child alone and expects the child support checks to be significant, "We understand Mr. Olcyzk just signed a four-year, $12 million contract."

After being served a dish of cold-hearted reality, Eric runs back to Beth, who is no longer interested in being his shoulder to cry on. With the way he had handled this particular situation, he showed her that he was not able to be the leader that is needed in a relationship. He didn't understand the difference between the first quarter and the fourth quarter; in the end, he took two L's.

The 1st Quarter
The first quarter begins after a man and a woman have sex. Most men make the mistake of believing that after they've had sex with a woman that they've conquered her pussy. Some men are shocked when after that first encounter there isn't another one. That's because sex was just something that took place in that moment, but it was just a moment, not the beginning of a relationship. Men can't assume that every girl who comes across their path is going to be their next girlfriend. Some of these women are just moments; they happen, and then they're over. Women we meet in clubs, like Jenna, should be assumed to be moments.

I'm not saying to prejudge situations and say that a girl you meet at a club and bang can't become your girlfriend, I'm just saying, I'd expect nothing more than that particular fuck, and then I'd allow her to communicate to me that she is looking for more out of the relationship.

The first quarter is pivotal because a thought process has to be formed, either the girl was a moment or you're going to play the game with her, and if it's the latter, we're headed into the second quarter of action.

The 2nd Quarter
The time period between the first two quarters is brief. You'll be in the second quarter for anywhere from three to six months. Once you're in the second quarter, there's a relationship that has been established. The girl you're dealing with is either your girlfriend, which means that your relationship is being constructed on more than just casual sex or she's your jump-off, which means that the relationship is only about casual sex and shouldn't make it past the second quarter.

If it's the former, then after a set amount of time in which you've had a chance to become a part of each others lives and a chance to get to know each other better, then it's likely she'll make it back to the locker room with you for Halftime before the third quarter begins. If it's the latter, then you need to use Halftime to drop her off. Too many men are engaging in long-term relationships with jump-offs, those are DOA relationships in which men are breaking fundamental rules that will only lead to more drama than what is absolutely necessary when shit eventually goes left, and it always does.

Halftime
Halftime is a necessity when you've come to the realization that the girl you're with is in fact what you would consider to be your girlfriend or that it is time to end a relationship with a jump-off. Please feel free to run through the Jump-Off Rulebook; if you are breaking rules on that list, then you are treating her like your girlfriend even if that is not your intention.

When you reach this point, it is imperative that you take a week off from her, what we will call Halftime. The break can be easily accomplished by letting her know that you have to go out of town for business or for family reasons. If you're ending the relationship, use this separation to go no-contact and never speak to her again. If you care for the girl, and view her as your girlfriend, then don't disappear entirely, keep in touch via text and/or short phone calls, but do not communicate with her on a regular basis. With this break, the point is to take some necessary time off from the relationship so that you can get your mind right about your real feelings about this girl -- at this point, you may start to realize you're beginning to love her, or you may even come across some other pussy that makes you realize that your feelings are overstated and you need to take a break, it also allows her to get in check with how she feels, they say "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

If you emerge from Halftime with a readiness to continue the game, then let the third quarter begin.

The 3rd Quarter
In the third quarter you'll be comfortable enough to expose your relationship to your outside world, one that in the beginning you should keep sort of distanced from her.

Men make mistakes by introducing their girls too quickly to people who they actually give a shit about, furthermore, they tend to expose them to parts of their world that mean something to them -- they take them to their favorite restaurant, club, etc. then when the relationship goes left, those places are ruined because they don't want to go back to them and potentially run into her.

At this stage of the game, it's likely that you're ready to make her a deeper part of your world. Remember, your girl is a reflection of you, you should want the people whose opinions you care for to give you props for the woman you've allowed to become a part of your life, if she's not that type of woman, then she should have already been taken out of the game.

It's highly likely you'll be in this quarter of the game for at least another six months to a year before you can be reasonably ready to proceed.

In John T. Molloy's book, Why Men Marry Some Women And Not Others, he found that most men are ready to propose after 18 months.

When you get to that stage of the game, you're in the fourth quarter.

The 4th Quarter
If you've made it to the fourth quarter, this is a serious relationship territory in which you've played the game with her, you've made her a part of your daily life, you've exposed her to the most intimate parts and people in your life, and you're moving towards making your life about her and taking her wants, needs, and expectations into account as it pertains to everything.

Furthermore, it's likely you're well out of the infatuation stage, and you've gone through some ups and downs with her in the relationship, yet you two are still standing tall.

In this quarter, men will think about co-habitation -- which I'm FIRMLY against -- marriage, and starting a family with the woman. At the two-year mark if you're still not interested in pursuing any of those avenues with the woman you're with, then it should be clear to you that she's not the right woman -- having this conversation assumes you're at an appropriate age where it actually makes sense to think about these kind of life-changing decisions, which for me doesn't really begin until you're somewhere between 26-30, anything below that, don't even put your uniform on.

Pour Conclure
In Playmakers, Eric made a crucial mistake. He allowed a relationship that was never going to get past the first quarter to destroy a relationship that was already in the fourth quarter. Don't be that stupid. If a woman has made it to the fourth quarter, then it's my guess that she deserves more consideration and respect than that; your girlfriend she be held in much higher regard than some new pussy, no matter how much you may have enjoyed it, just because she's proven she's down, this game is a show-and-prove game.

Think about what quarter your relationship is in, remember that this game is serious business, and that the goal is always to win, not to take L's.

[kaotic]

That video clip made me shudder how he got fucked on both fronts, showing how cold a woman can be.

Show and prove.

Actions vs words.

This should be a wake up call to players with LTR's - myself included.

I've always wrapped up with my side pieces, one for sure is a jump off, 19 year old 7.5 Black Chick - she actually just texted me this:

[attachment=26753]

The ensuing convo was about how she doesn't want to feel super clingy .

That "it's not that deep, we don't talk, we don't do stuff".

She just wants to hangout outside of the house and honestly I don't have the time nor the motivation to do that with her.

She drops the "I wanna feel like I know you're interested in me, you're really distant".

It's pretty clear she wants to be in Q3 while in my eyes its still half time.

It's time to let this girl go (gently) and let her do her own thing, she feels already invested in me.

It's unfortunate, we typically bang once a week, and our sexual chemistry is off the fucking charts.

The last thing I need is her pregnant and ruining my LTR situation.

[worldwidetraveler]

Jariel, have you been in any/many LTR's? You don't come across as a relationship type of guy.

[Tailgunner]

This sounds like advice for a serial monogomist not a player.

[jariel]

(06-11-2015 02:14 PM)Tailgunner Wrote:  

This sounds like advice for a serial monogomist not a player.

The percentage of "players" even in communities such as this one is really low.

Even guys who could be considered players actually rock with one girl from time to time, or keep a "bottom bitch" which may be as close to a girlfriend as one gets while they still play the field.

We even have married guys here, so your comment is confusing at best.

[jariel]

(06-11-2015 12:53 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Jariel, have you been in any/many LTR's? You don't come across as a relationship type of guy.

I don't write about what I don't know about.

If I didn't know anything about being in a relationship, then I couldn't write these posts.

Most of these Real Talk Sessions are for guys in relationships; a lot of guys can luck up on some pussy for the night, that's not really that difficult, it is difficult to actually keep a bitch engaged and investing, that requires a whole other skillset, which is why most advice is geared towards how to pick-up low quality women for quick sex.

[worldwidetraveler]

(06-11-2015 04:25 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 12:53 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Jariel, have you been in any/many LTR's? You don't come across as a relationship type of guy.

I don't write about what I don't know about.

If I didn't know anything about being in a relationship, then I couldn't write these posts.

Most of these Real Talk Sessions are for guys in relationships; a lot of guys can luck up on some pussy for the night, that's not really that difficult, it is difficult to actually keep a bitch engaged and investing, that requires a whole other skillset, which is why most advice is geared towards how to pick-up low quality women for quick sex.

Ok, what happened when you cohabited with a woman that makes you not recommend it before marriage? Unless I misunderstood what you wrote.

[jariel]

(06-11-2015 04:31 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Ok, what happened when you cohabited with a woman that makes you not recommend it before marriage? Unless I misunderstood what you wrote.

It is my opinion that cohabitation before marriage is de facto marriage.

There are plenty of stories here about guys who have let women move in with them, and I'm certain there are some guys here who have made the mistake of moving into women's places.

Once that happens, the dynamic totally changes. You no longer have any personal space nor a buffer zone between you and her. If you move into a woman's place, she will take that as you granting her permission to control you.

But this post isn't about cohabitation, nor is it about marriage, nor starting a family, it's about understanding the stages of one's relationship with another woman, which is part of the process I call thinking the game.

It's easy to go through a relationship with no plan, nor end game in sight, which is apparent from the stories of guys here who have fucked the same jump-off for three years.

We have enough guys giving advice about how to score off websites and bag chicks at night clubs, but everybody's not doing online game nor is everyone going out three, four times a week.

As I said before, these posts are usually for guys who already have women in their lives, not those who are trying to learn how to get pussy.

[Brian Shima]

Jariel, are you more of a LTR guy?

[worldwidetraveler]

(06-11-2015 04:39 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 04:31 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Ok, what happened when you cohabited with a woman that makes you not recommend it before marriage? Unless I misunderstood what you wrote.

It is my opinion that cohabitation before marriage is de facto marriage.

There are plenty of stories here about guys who have let women move in with them, and I'm certain there are some guys here who have made the mistake of moving into women's places.

Once that happens, the dynamic totally changes. You no longer have any personal space nor a buffer zone between you and her. If you move into a woman's place, she will take that as you granting her permission to control you.

But this post isn't about cohabitation, nor is it about marriage, nor starting a family, it's about understanding the stages of one's relationship with another woman, which is part of the process I call thinking the game.

It's easy to go through a relationship with no plan, nor end game in sight, which is apparent from the stories of guys here who have fucked the same jump-off for three years.

I disagree that this isn't about marriage. I think marriage is what most young people see in their future. I would say even the majority of young guys on this forum.

You are either going to have to deal with those types of issues you outlined in cohabitation when or if you decide to wife up. If it's going to happen, it will happen no matter if you cohabitate or get married. It's better to find out prior to getting married than afterward.

Until you go through a divorce, you won't realize how different living together can be from marriage.

I think most guys should live with a woman. You think being a player will help in relationships? Doubtful. If guys want to be able to handle relationships so they last they need to get into relationships and screw things up in order to learn not only about maintaining one but also about what they really want. Sometimes it takes a does of reality to understand you don't really want what you originally thought you did.

[jariel]

(06-11-2015 04:40 PM)Brian Shima Wrote:  

Jariel, are you more of a LTR guy?

I'm a guy who girls want to be in an LTR with.

I can give advice about how to be that type of guy, I can also give advice about how to handle being in LTRs.

Every week I get messages from guys who actually have girlfriends, women in their lives who they give fuck about, and they're going through it with them so they want to know how to handle those situations.

I wouldn't get those messages if it weren't for the nature of my posts.

Everyone who is giving advice, can't necessarily give that kind of advice. They can advise based off their experiences, you have guys who claim to have fucked 100 women in the span of a few months, but they have no stalkers, no chicks trying to rope them into relationships, unless you're traveling, and constantly rippin' and dippin', that's going to be hard to believe.

We can keep our emotions out of sex, but it's very difficult for women to do the same thing. You fuck a chick enough, and it gets to her head. You fuck a chick right, and it gets to her spirit.

It's cool that I'm being challenged, I'll stand up to any challenges, I can respect that, but let's make sure we're consistent with the challenges, a lot of guys in this game are just swallowing stories whole that don't pass any tests of rationale or even lead you to any positive conclusions, we see it all the time in these parts.

If you can fuck 10 women in a week, and none of them want to be with you, for real, then IMO, you're not a guy who I would take advice from because that either means you're a low-quality dude who no bitch wants or you can't fuck, either way, it is what it is.

[jariel]

(06-11-2015 04:44 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

I disagree that this isn't about marriage. I think marriage is what most young people see in their future. I would say even the majority of young guys on this forum.

You are either going to have to deal with those types of issues you outlined in cohabitation when or if you decide to wife up. If it's going to happen, it will happen no matter if you cohabitate or get married. It's better to find out prior to getting married than afterward.

Until you go through a divorce, you won't realize how different living together can be from marriage.

I think most guys should live with a woman. You think being a player will help in relationships? Doubtful. If guys want to be able to handle relationships so they last they need to get into relationships and screw things up in order to learn not only about maintaining one but also about what they really want. Sometimes it takes a does of reality to understand you don't really want what you originally thought you did.

I think you're twisting the conversation into something that you really want to discuss, but it's not the central theme of the discussion I was posing; you can disagree with that, but I didn't write this piece to be about cohabitation and marriage.

Guys can spend their weekends, they can spend all of their nights with women, and get an idea of what it's like to be in shared quarters, obviously that is not the same exact thing, but it's a good simulation of it.

They don't need to go all in and give a chick keys to their place.

Cohabitation is a sticky situation, what happens when shit goes left, do you just kick her out? What if her name is on the lease? You're advocating avoidable drama, which is why I said from jump-street that cohabitation is de facto marriage, because it makes a situation incredibly complicated, and when there are complications of that nature, you can't just wake up the next morning and fix them.

Again, no disrespect, but you've cherry-picked one incredibly small part of the conversation, one potential outcome of relationship game, even though outcomes were not the focal point of the conversation, and you're making the entire discussion about that.

[worldwidetraveler]

(06-11-2015 05:00 PM)jariel Wrote:  

I think you're twisting the conversation into something that you really want to discuss, but it's not the central theme of the discussion I was posing; you can disagree with that, but I didn't write this piece to be about cohabitation and marriage.

Guys can spend their weekends, they can spend nights with women, and get an idea of what it's like to be in shared quarters, obviously that is not the same exact thing, but it's a good simulation of it.

They don't need to go all in and give a chick keys to their place.

Cohabitation is a sticky situation, what happens when shit goes left, do you just kick her out? What if her name is on the lease? You're advocating avoidable drama, which is why I said from jump-street that cohabitation is de facto marriage, because it makes a situation incredibly complicated, and when there are complications of that nature, you can't just wake up the next morning and fix those.

I don't think I made it sound like a guy should hand over his keys after a few dates. You called it 4th quarter and typically a relationship will either get to the cohabitation/marriage stage or fizzle out.

Spending weekends and nights won't give you an idea of living together. It may give you an idea of taking a vacation together.

Marriage is far more messy than worrying about leases and if one thinks a woman is good enough to wife up he should be taking the cohabitation step prior to the marriage one.

I enjoy relationships, but not really interested in living with someone again. That means I don't expect a relationship to last more than a year.

I know exactly what I want because I did do the cohabitation and the marriage thing. It didn't coincide with the way I am. No issues with control or anything like that.

Mainly a space thing.

Quote:

Again, no disrespect, but you've cherry-picked one incredibly small part of the conversation, one potential outcome of relationship game, even though outcomes were not the focal point of the conversation, and you're making the entire discussion about that.

Actually, I am discussing a portion of the post I think is important.

Marriage is the end goal for most people. As you pointed out, not many people are truly players for life.

I don't consider a long term relationship unless it goes pass that 2 year mark.

No disrespect intended by me either, but are you posting here to incite conversation and debate or simply to be read? If it is to be read, I would suggest a blog.

[jariel]

(06-11-2015 05:16 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

I don't think I made it sound like a guy should hand over his keys after a few dates. You called it 4th quarter and typically a relationship will either get to the cohabitation/marriage stage or fizzle out.

Spending weekends and nights won't give you an idea of living together. It may give you an idea of taking a vacation together.

Marriage is far more messy than worrying about leases and if one thinks a woman is good enough to wife up he should be taking the cohabitation step prior to the marriage one.

Quote:

Actually, I am discussing a portion of the post I think is important.

Marriage is the end goal for most people. As you pointed out, not many people are truly players for life.

I don't consider a long term relationship unless it goes pass that 2 year mark.

No disrespect intended by me either, but are you posting here to incite conversation and debate or simply to be read? If it is to be read, I would suggest a blog.

Discussion is great, but you're going out of your way to not concede that you're shifting the discussion.

This would be like me going into a discussion about how to pick up women off Tinder, and then making the entire debate/discussion about what happens if the girl I meet off Tinder becomes my girlfriend -- it's a potential outcome of the situation, but it's not the central theme of the discussion.

It is 4th quarter when you get to cohabitation, marriage, starting a family, but once you're actually doing those things, you're into an entirely different game, one that was not the focal point of this post.

Also, don't translate my thoughts, obviously I don't think spending nights and weekends with a girl is the same as living with her, nor do I think cohabitation is the same thing as a marriage, I simply said that you can find commonalities and complexities within those dynamics.

When you co-habitat with a girl, you relinquish a level of power and freedom to your girl in the same manner you do with your wife.

When you live alone, you come home whenever you want and it is what it is.

Try coming home at 3 AM on a Saturday night to your live-in girlfriend and tell me it's the same as living alone.

[worldwidetraveler]

(06-11-2015 05:27 PM)jariel Wrote:  

Discussion is great, but you're going out of your way to not concede that you're shifting the discussion.

Ok, maybe I just don't understand the direction you were going. Or there is a disconnect on what I consider a relationship to what you and others do.

Quote:

When you co-habitat with a girl, you relinquish a level of power and freedom to your girl in the same manner you do with your wife.

Again, in the context you are interested in wifing up this woman, your able to walk away much easier from living together than being married. Paying off a lease is much easier than dealing with divorce attorneys and judges.

Quote:

When you live alone, you come home whenever you want and it is what it is.

Try coming home at 3 AM on a Saturday night to your live-in girlfriend and tell me it's the same as living alone.

I have and no problems with my exes. I never said it was the same as living alone and made the comment I prefer to live alone. In the context of wanting to marry a woman, living together prior is the best scenario to not living together and getting married.

Guys need to know what they want out of the woman they are in relationships with. If you don't plan on marriage and having kids, there is no reason to go this route.

[TrentV]

Thanks for all your wisdom Jariel. I just got out of a LTR where I thought I'd marry the chick but made a ton of mistakes along the way. Currently single and dating around so all your knowledge is helping me ensure that I minimize my mistakes along the way.

[jariel]

(06-11-2015 05:48 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

I have and no problems with my exes. I never said it was the same as living alone and made the comment I prefer to live alone. In the context of wanting to marry a woman, living together prior is the best scenario to not living together and getting married.

Guys need to know what they want out of the woman they are in relationships with. If you don't plan on marriage and having kids, there is no reason to go this route.

I'm hopeful that some other guys contribute here because I don't want to whole discussion to just be you and I going back and forth.

I recall not too long ago a conversation in which I believe OGNorCal talked about how he let a girl move in with him and the disaster that ensued, and I'm sure he's not the only one who can chime in on situations like that.

For me personally, if I'm ready to simulate marriage, i.e. cohabitation, then I should be ready to actually get married.

If you need a trial run to protect yourself in case it fails, then I think that says a lot about where your relationship really is.

Again, it's rather easy to find the extensive research that has been conducted on the detriment that cohabitation has on relationships, it's great that you've had some okay experiences, but your experiences are representative of the minority.

I'm a fan of keeping things as flexible as possible, of course it's easier to end a relationship in which two people aren't married versus one in which they are, that's not exactly breaking news, but it's a complex situation when two people are living together and the relationship is ending, it's not just complex, it's messy, I'm a fan of avoiding the mess until you're actually ready to deal with that possibility.

For the record, I don't think you need to be with a woman for two years before you can call it a long-term relationship, that's a subjective measurement that will inherently vary.

[worldwidetraveler]

(06-11-2015 06:03 PM)jariel Wrote:  

I'm hopeful that some other guys contribute here because I don't want to whole discussion to just be you and I going back and forth.

Fair enough, I think I said my piece but wanted to clear up some things here.

Quote:

I recall not too long ago a conversation in which I believe OGNorCal talked about how he let a girl move in with him and the disaster that ensued, and I'm sure he's not the only one who can chime in on situations like that.

Wasn't OGNorcal's girl a stripper with a drug problem? For some reason that is what I remember but could be wrong. Apologizes to NorCal if I am.

Quote:

For me personally, if I'm ready to simulate marriage, i.e. cohabitation, then I should be ready to actually get married.

If you need a trial run to protect yourself in case it fails, then I think that says a lot about where your relationship really is.

Right, I had a good friend, who happened to be quite the player back in college, that went the same route. He didn't want to live together prior to marriage and read it was better to not. He is still married with some kids. I haven't talked to him in quite some time and couldn't tell you if he is happy.

Anyway, I don't consider living together as trial run. I consider it part of the process to marriage. We aren't talking about having the same bank accounts, retirement funds, having kids or anything of that type of marriage stuff.

With that said, if you are worried about your woman getting more power over you and possibly trying to insert more control, then you shouldn't be thinking about staying with her in any relationship.

Some of your reasons for not co-habitating should end the relationship because it's going nowhere.

[TravelerKai]

(06-11-2015 04:44 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 04:39 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 04:31 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Ok, what happened when you cohabited with a woman that makes you not recommend it before marriage? Unless I misunderstood what you wrote.

It is my opinion that cohabitation before marriage is de facto marriage.

There are plenty of stories here about guys who have let women move in with them, and I'm certain there are some guys here who have made the mistake of moving into women's places.

Once that happens, the dynamic totally changes. You no longer have any personal space nor a buffer zone between you and her. If you move into a woman's place, she will take that as you granting her permission to control you.

But this post isn't about cohabitation, nor is it about marriage, nor starting a family, it's about understanding the stages of one's relationship with another woman, which is part of the process I call thinking the game.

It's easy to go through a relationship with no plan, nor end game in sight, which is apparent from the stories of guys here who have fucked the same jump-off for three years.

I disagree that this isn't about marriage. I think marriage is what most young people see in their future. I would say even the majority of young guys on this forum.

You are either going to have to deal with those types of issues you outlined in cohabitation when or if you decide to wife up. If it's going to happen, it will happen no matter if you cohabitate or get married. It's better to find out prior to getting married than afterward.

Until you go through a divorce, you won't realize how different living together can be from marriage.

I think most guys should live with a woman. You think being a player will help in relationships? Doubtful. If guys want to be able to handle relationships so they last they need to get into relationships and screw things up in order to learn not only about maintaining one but also about what they really want. Sometimes it takes a does of reality to understand you don't really want what you originally thought you did.

This is horrible advice. I cohabitated with my exwife if you want credentials of experience.

Living with a woman is all kinds of trouble. I don't have much time to type, but we can still make a decent high level list.

1) There is way to effectively create ground rules with a live in girlfriend.
2) It encourages the very thing we all hate here. Female independence and no submission to a man.
3) No legitimacy in the eyes of God, society, family, and friends. Only the greedy ass state/government wants to force label you so that they can get more tax and potential divorce money from you to feed their legal industrial complex.
4) Excessive legal risk in a confrontation or conflict (She hit you and lie about it, etc.). Also, Legally you have protections like, (albeit small ones) Spousal Privilege in court testify situations. Without a marriage, you have no protection on things like that.


Ever sit your new girlfriend down before she moves in and go over a bunch of ground rules she must follow? Ever make her sign a rental agreement? Ever threaten her that failure to follow your rules will displease God? No. Of course not. No one has ever done that. Why not? Because it won't fucking work.

In a co-habitation situation you are in a co-agreement. That is NOT submission. You agree to follow some of her rules (No pussy on the side, we only go out together, etc.) She has to follow some of your rules. The minute someone breaks 1 or more rules that causes a fight of some kind, you both go your own ways. Sometimes with damaging after effects.

There is zero authority in a co-habitation. There is no instance of her father giving her to you and telling her to obey you. There is no authority from a biblical perspective because God does not honor this arraignment. With no legitimacy, you cannot expect obedience. Your recommendation for cohabitation is akin to or worse than wanting your wife to be your best buddy or best friend. Men and women are not equals. Anyone seeking that will be met with failure every single time.

To quote that amazing older man in the recent thread, who was a former bodybuilder, men should come and go as they please. You cannot do that in a cohabitation. You are sharing authority with a woman, which the bible makes painfully clear that no woman should have authority over no man, over your presence in and out of your own domicile. That's absolute madness.

You don't need to know how your girlfriend wipes her ass and how clean she is by living with her first. A visit to her home or parents home or whatever is sufficient. Always watch the mother's habits and value system. We could talk all day about this. If she is submissive enough, she will be clean to your standards anyway.

I have to go again, but if you want to debate this further, go ahead, I will get back to you on the weekend or so.

[Travesty]

WWT aren't you divorced?

[worldwidetraveler]

(06-11-2015 07:02 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

This is horrible advice. I cohabitated with my exwife if you want credentials of experience.

No offense TK, but was it co-habitation that hurt your marriage or the type of woman you co-habitated and later married?

Quote:

Living with a woman is all kinds of trouble. I don't have much time to type, but we can still make a decent high level list.

1) There is way to effectively create ground rules with a live in girlfriend.
2) It encourages the very thing we all hate here. Female independence and no submission to a man.
3) No legitimacy in the eyes of God, society, family, and friends. Only the greedy ass state/government wants to force label you so that they can get more tax and potential divorce money from you to feed their legal industrial complex.
4) Excessive legal risk in a confrontation or conflict (She hit you and lie about it, etc.). Also, Legally you have protections like, (albeit small ones) Spousal Privilege in court testify situations. Without a marriage, you have no protection on things like that.

Sounds like much of the same issues you can have when married to the wrong woman. How does co-habitation with a woman become more dangerous? Marriage won't save you from a domestic violence accusation. Hell, with the way things are these days, I wouldn't be so certain a husband couldn't be charged with rape.

Quote:

Ever sit your new girlfriend down before she moves in and go over a bunch of ground rules she must follow? Ever make her sign a rental agreement? Ever threaten her that failure to follow your rules will displease God? No. Of course not. No one has ever done that. Why not? Because it won't fucking work.

...

TK, I cut some of your quote down for easier thread scrolling.

As I said to Jariel, you shouldn't be in any relationship with a woman if those are some of the things you are worried about.

I don't understand why you think marriage, in itself, brings in some type of submission. It has as little to do with submission as does co-habitation.

Either your woman submits or she doesn't. I would expect you to know that before you get to this point.

As for religion, that is a personal matter. I am not religious, but for those that are should follow their beliefs in those matters. I don't have any comments on religious beliefs since they are of a personal nature.

[worldwidetraveler]

(06-11-2015 07:05 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

WWT aren't you divorced?

Yes, and I have lived with one woman in the past and had LTR's with a few others. Those experiences have helped me to know what I want and what I don't want.

[ordinaryleastsquared]

(06-11-2015 07:02 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 04:44 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 04:39 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 04:31 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Ok, what happened when you cohabited with a woman that makes you not recommend it before marriage? Unless I misunderstood what you wrote.

It is my opinion that cohabitation before marriage is de facto marriage.

There are plenty of stories here about guys who have let women move in with them, and I'm certain there are some guys here who have made the mistake of moving into women's places.

Once that happens, the dynamic totally changes. You no longer have any personal space nor a buffer zone between you and her. If you move into a woman's place, she will take that as you granting her permission to control you.

But this post isn't about cohabitation, nor is it about marriage, nor starting a family, it's about understanding the stages of one's relationship with another woman, which is part of the process I call thinking the game.

It's easy to go through a relationship with no plan, nor end game in sight, which is apparent from the stories of guys here who have fucked the same jump-off for three years.

I disagree that this isn't about marriage. I think marriage is what most young people see in their future. I would say even the majority of young guys on this forum.

You are either going to have to deal with those types of issues you outlined in cohabitation when or if you decide to wife up. If it's going to happen, it will happen no matter if you cohabitate or get married. It's better to find out prior to getting married than afterward.

Until you go through a divorce, you won't realize how different living together can be from marriage.

I think most guys should live with a woman. You think being a player will help in relationships? Doubtful. If guys want to be able to handle relationships so they last they need to get into relationships and screw things up in order to learn not only about maintaining one but also about what they really want. Sometimes it takes a does of reality to understand you don't really want what you originally thought you did.

This is horrible advice. I cohabitated with my exwife if you want credentials of experience.

Living with a woman is all kinds of trouble. I don't have much time to type, but we can still make a decent high level list.

1) There is way to effectively create ground rules with a live in girlfriend.
2) It encourages the very thing we all hate here. Female independence and no submission to a man.
3) No legitimacy in the eyes of God, society, family, and friends. Only the greedy ass state/government wants to force label you so that they can get more tax and potential divorce money from you to feed their legal industrial complex.
4) Excessive legal risk in a confrontation or conflict (She hit you and lie about it, etc.). Also, Legally you have protections like, (albeit small ones) Spousal Privilege in court testify situations. Without a marriage, you have no protection on things like that.


Ever sit your new girlfriend down before she moves in and go over a bunch of ground rules she must follow? Ever make her sign a rental agreement? Ever threaten her that failure to follow your rules will displease God? No. Of course not. No one has ever done that. Why not? Because it won't fucking work.

In a co-habitation situation you are in a co-agreement. That is NOT submission. You agree to follow some of her rules (No pussy on the side, we only go out together, etc.) She has to follow some of your rules. The minute someone breaks 1 or more rules that causes a fight of some kind, you both go your own ways. Sometimes with damaging after effects.

There is zero authority in a co-habitation. There is no instance of her father giving her to you and telling her to obey you. There is no authority from a biblical perspective because God does not honor this arraignment. With no legitimacy, you cannot expect obedience. Your recommendation for cohabitation is akin to or worse than wanting your wife to be your best buddy or best friend. Men and women are not equals. Anyone seeking that will be met with failure every single time.

To quote that amazing older man in the recent thread, who was a former bodybuilder, men should come and go as they please. You cannot do that in a cohabitation. You are sharing authority with a woman, which the bible makes painfully clear that no woman should have authority over no man, over your presence in and out of your own domicile. That's absolute madness.

You don't need to know how your girlfriend wipes her ass and how clean she is by living with her first. A visit to her home or parents home or whatever is sufficient. Always watch the mother's habits and value system. We could talk all day about this. If she is submissive enough, she will be clean to your standards anyway.

I have to go again, but if you want to debate this further, go ahead, I will get back to you on the weekend or so.

I think the point is to live with a women in order to fully understand the concept/consequences of long term relationships and women... entering into the dragons lair may not be pleasant, but you will learn something from the experience.

Living with a girl is the closest thing to marriage simulation that is available, if you want to simlulate living together and raising a child, adopt a dog with the girl.

I did both. For me, it took living with my ex to trully swallow the red pill, so to speak, and fully embrace the fact that my basic human nature is not compatible with cohabitation or marriage, at least not for a good while.

[CJ_W]

(06-11-2015 07:02 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

This is horrible advice.

This. Do not live with a woman unless you are married to her.

DO NOT.

Period.

Of course if guys reading this want to be headstrong and do it anyway, be my guest. I won't need to say "I told you so" when she hits the fan a few months later.

If you can't be fine with being alone in your own house, then you're not doing enough in your life, in which case, you'll be in trouble sooner or later anyway.

[Ingocnito]

I agree with the No cohabitation concept. I do however think that it is a massive learning experience that will shock you into better thinking. Yet, the fallout and mistakes are life consuming and often irreversible.

The only girl I cohabitated with was the one I knocked up, yes accidentally. 6 fucking months in. Now the time I wasted with the mother and the "engagement" with no planned wedding date was enormous waste of 3 years, and forever the responsibility of a child until I die. However, I feel had I not given it a shot, for the child to have a normal life, I couldn't have lived with myself. Hindsight being 20/20 revealed things would be relatively the same re. seeing my daughter and my relationship with her anyways. And my kid's home life would be just as fucked up as it is now anyways.

Wants have to match to bother attempting 4th, or even 3rd quarters, but will potentially change at each "quarter" Jariel described anyways. Your wants have to match logically to the girl's behavior in lock-step, every step of the way. Just 1 or 2 incidences of intolerable behavior should be the ender of either a jump-off, OR an LTR prospect... and I'm not talking shit test crap, actions not words is all that matters. Never let an unwanted action slide.

So true is the fact many, many men make their jump-off a main LTR, I did purely because of the child. Hopefully that mistake doesn't result in an unplanned pregnancy like mine did. I had planned to leave this girl in a week, when I found out she got pregnant, and of course got a paternity test to prove was mine.

If you don't want to get married or have a child, don't live with a woman for any reason whatsoever. That's my advice. Cohabitation purports marriage regardless.