Quote: (06-14-2016 12:52 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:
...
That was a thought-provoking post! I will think on it for a while.
At times my active mind can tend towards over-thinking or over-expression when I'm under the weather (tired/sick/stressed), so thanks for the reminder. Anyhow, some additional tips for the readership follow:
(1) Learn about her culture
This is especially important if you have not spent much if any time in your girl's country and if you have not had past experience with girls from that country. Reading culture-relationship books, making native friends both male and female, and observing the behaviours of others can all be helpful, though the best way to fast-track your knowledge and behavioural habits is to
spend some time in the country itself. Through improved learning and practice, you will begin to understand, adapt, and naturally display a number of unspoken rules such as minimizing courting-stage PDA (Public Displays of Affection) without having to learn the hard way.
(2) As a Man, you must be the Rock
Unless the said behaviour is extreme or ongoing, the best option is to let it slide in many cases. Sometimes giving energy or 'feeding' a behaviour can make it seem more significant that it should be, rather than overcoming it. This over-sensitivity can backfire by making you seem overly reactive and thus weak (TK noted a similar theme in his previous post, point 2A). I believe that women have a biological imperative to test for psychological strength on an ongoing basis, and her longer-term vision of a man who is congruent across time and context - a man who is not easily swayed by her emotions - is key for success in long-term relationships.
(3) Consider Timing and Context
For instance, a great time to have such an intimate, brief chat is after the lay.
To illustrate points 2 and 3, this is what happened today: I picked up my "Asian" Girlfriend who recently had something on her mind and it was affecting her mood and our interactions. We had fun for an hour before banging and then, in sum, I explained that I value her and opening up our communication channels, she said she would tell me about anything important and noted that some things are best left unsaid. Despite her unusual behaviour, I sensed that I had been overly sensitive and did not press further. She asked about my values and I explained that I expect respect and loyalty, and I don't offer second chances. Then I banged her again. Following this, she washed my clothes, cooked and cleaned for me. Things seem back to normal now =)
Curious...
Quote: (06-15-2016 12:56 AM)Bushido Wrote:
Artiste, can you be more specific about what you mean by "East Asian"? Japanese women couldn't be further removed from the Chinese. The cultures are more or less opposite in every significant way.
When you say "
The cultures are more or less opposite in every significant way" could you explain what these significant ways are, and how they relate to my post?
In this case, my main area of interest is women from North East Asia (primarily China, Taiwan, Korea and Japan). Hong Kong and Mongolia should also be included in that definition to be accurate, and then South East Asia would include Vietnam, Philippines, Thailand, Laos, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.
I'm sure you have a lot to offer regarding relationships with Japanese and other women so I am a bit confused by your post. On that note, see below.
Quote: (06-15-2016 02:00 AM)WalterBlack Wrote:
I get pissed off when I hear somebody say "this is an Asian thing", when it's usually just a Chinese (or Korean or Japanese) thing. Even Chinese FOBs in the US and Chinese-Americans are guilty of this. People should realise how different the cultures are. Chinese/Japanese/Koreans are very different people....even within China there's a lot of differences between people from different areas.
What is such a
"just a Chinese (or Korean or Japanese) thing" that you are referring to? When you note "
Chinese/Japanese/Koreans are very different people", can you provide any examples that relate to the theme of this thread?
Re: Over-generalisations
My post is about responding to a set passive behaviours that I have observed in my relationships with Japanese, Koreans and Chinese women, each of which spanned several years. The rest of my experience is drawn from 100+ lays of Asian birds over more than a decade, and over a year total across more than 10 Asian countries. Whilst I do have much to learn - hence my questions for the readership - I am very much aware of not just the broad differences between these women but also their within-group differences (and, moreover, the importance of individual, dyadic and contextual factors in explaining any given relationship dynamic). For instance, through highlighting a comparison of living standards I addressed this issue
in a previous thread about a guy who seemed to be applying Filipina "just-turn-up" game in Japan.
Indeed, there are many differences between Japanese and Chinese women. For instance, I've never seen a Japanese lady spit on the street or on the floor of a club, unlike some Chinese girls {*shudder*}. Closer to the themes of the thread, I have personally found that on average Chinese women are more harshly blunt than Japanese, and more oriented towards the maintenance of 'self-face' rather than group harmony. To note an empirical example, there is evidence that the Chinese use different facework behaviours -- i.e., communicative strategies used "to enact self-face and to uphold or challenge another person’s face to avoid confrontation" [ref 1].
All this nonetheless does not invalidate the well-documented common expression of indirect communication throughout East Asia. Moreover, the crux of my post is discussing certain characteristics of communication-based relationship problems that tend to be experienced
more often with women from countries that value concepts such as 'face' and 'harmony,' and from cultures that can be characterized by a historical influence of Confucianism and 'high context' ("a style associated with nonverbal and implicit communication more typical of traditionally interdependent societies" [ref 2]. If you click the RvF links at the bottom of my previous post, in addition to scrolling through this thread, you can see that the problem of passive aggression, indirect communication and the maintenance of 'face' has been a common theme in relationships with Filipino, Chinese, Japanese, and other East Asian women. I've also included some links below that discuss 'face' in Japan and China, and it appears that much of this advice could be interchangeable [refs 3/4].
Whilst handling the 'meaning beneath the words' is an issue relevant when dealing with the most aggressive of passive-aggressive females [ref 5], its unclear to me why asking for suggestions from fellow men who have experience with
East Asian women is questionable, or how my stated experience with Japanese/Korean/Chinese women represents an overly broad stroke of assumptions? Perhaps I am misreading your post? Personally I don't see the benefit for the readership from vague assertions about the problems of supposed over-generalisations without including a specific context or counter-examples. I think a more helpful approach would be to explain, through your own experience and theories, why and how you should adapt different strategies with Japanese, Chinese or other women when it comes to handling 'what goes unsaid'.
A call of Encouragement
I would like to say that, whilst a post made in the context of some relationship history with Asian women is more relevant to my personal situation, I certainly do welcome contributions from any members who have faced similar situations worldwide [ref 5].
In consideration of the undeniably strong interest in foreign women at RvF, tips and mindsets to shorten cultural and communicative barriers will long be of interest here, especially for those looking beyond the fleeting lays, and towards more ongoing connections, even patriarchal dynasties.
As always constructive feedback is welcome.
References
1.
Face and facework in conflict: A cross-cultural comparison of China, Germany, Japan, and the United States [pdf]
2.
Book Review, of 'Negotiating Across Cultures. Communications Obstacles in International Diplomacy'
3.
Gaining and Losing Face in China
4.
Saving Face: A Little Discretion Can Go A Long Way In Japan
5. (Can you feel the snark...)
Edit: grammar