Have been reading the forum since I found about these guys from a ROK article not long ago. Interesting this is a growing movement and some of the stuff on it reflects what is going as a byproduct of feminism and it seems to be backed up with polls and lots of good evidence. I can relate to a lot of what these guys are on about as it kind of describes a number of men today. There are probably similar comparisons with the Omega men in Japan, although MGTOWs don't seem to advocate an assexual lifestyle. I would describe myself as being in this group, however I will not let society pigeon hole me, which is what MGTOWs are against.
"MGTOW''
Out of the PUA, MRA, and MGTOW stuff
(pick up artists, men's rights advocates, and men going their own way)
MGTOW has the appeal.
it doesn't come off as skeevy like Pick Up.
It doesn't come off as bitter as MRA often sounds.
It's men deciding that they want to live their lives on their own terms. They don't exist to be the engine for society, to build society and to be taxed by said society.
It appeals to the independent and self-sufficient nature of men, without any baggage of the other movements.
WIA
(pick up artists, men's rights advocates, and men going their own way)
MGTOW has the appeal.
it doesn't come off as skeevy like Pick Up.
It doesn't come off as bitter as MRA often sounds.
It's men deciding that they want to live their lives on their own terms. They don't exist to be the engine for society, to build society and to be taxed by said society.
It appeals to the independent and self-sufficient nature of men, without any baggage of the other movements.
WIA
MGTOW from what i can gather is guys just avoiding societal expections of marriage and kids and if they do want those things they look to other countries where men are not at the mercy of the feminist judges in the event of divorce.
i think many posters here probably fit that description.
i think many posters here probably fit that description.
Game/red pill article links
"Chicks dig power, men dig beauty, eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap, men are expendable, women are perishable." - Heartiste
Yeah - that is the sort of thinking that appeals to me. I don't really care much for 'game' per se. Since I don't give a shit about what women think of me and I have zero interest in trying to please them in any way.
Although - ironically - such a mindset is quite powerful when interacting with them. Circles within circles...
Although - ironically - such a mindset is quite powerful when interacting with them. Circles within circles...
Yeah - I enjoy atagonising bitches. I was telling one chick that internet porn had sent her the way of the horse and cart. As everyone was laughing she popped out one of her tits to try and impress me. I told her - bitch that's one nipple. How can that compete with the 100GB of porn sat on my hard-drive at home!
I sometimes think I might have invented a new type of 'game'. But one based around being as low value and as omega as possible. I always remind a girl that I have visited Amsterdam and have slept with much hotter girls than her for about $100. So - to me she is worth no more than a couple of box sets of 'Mad Men.' I tell em' the market has already set her value and the market is never wrong. I tell em' don't argue with me. Argue with Milton Friedman. And then I laugh at them again for not knowing who the fuck Milton Friedman is.
I dunno' - if I cared enough I could probably figure out some kind of clever 'anti'-game game. I think there might be something in it. But to me it is a way of life. I will bow down to no authority. And I refuse to try and impress anyone. Especially the wimminz.
I sometimes think I might have invented a new type of 'game'. But one based around being as low value and as omega as possible. I always remind a girl that I have visited Amsterdam and have slept with much hotter girls than her for about $100. So - to me she is worth no more than a couple of box sets of 'Mad Men.' I tell em' the market has already set her value and the market is never wrong. I tell em' don't argue with me. Argue with Milton Friedman. And then I laugh at them again for not knowing who the fuck Milton Friedman is.
I dunno' - if I cared enough I could probably figure out some kind of clever 'anti'-game game. I think there might be something in it. But to me it is a way of life. I will bow down to no authority. And I refuse to try and impress anyone. Especially the wimminz.
Quote: (02-24-2013 06:07 PM)cardguy Wrote:
I sometimes think I might have invented a new type of 'game'. But one based around being as low value and as omega as possible. I always remind a girl that I have visted Amsterdam and have slept with much hotter girls than her for about $100. So - to me she is worth no more than a couple of box sets of 'Mad Men.' I tell em' the market has already set her value and the market is never wrong. I tell em' don't argue with me. Argue with Milton Friedman. And then I laugh at them again for not knowing who the fuck Milton Friedman is.
That's pretty damn funny, man! Normally patronizing prostitutes is something most men would be ashamed of since it may connote that you can't get sex from a woman willingly, but I think you framed it just the right way to knock down her ego.
Back from EE, tending towards this.
Zero effort.
Random bitches have done zero for me and deserve zero from me. If she doesn't make effort to cue she doesn't exist.
It results in zero sex but sex with unfeminine women is very unfulfilling.
Zero effort.
Random bitches have done zero for me and deserve zero from me. If she doesn't make effort to cue she doesn't exist.
It results in zero sex but sex with unfeminine women is very unfulfilling.
A valid point Cardguy, if more guys could have that attitude it would certainly make things easier for other guys. Going to pros is still considered a no no in western culture and the exact percentage of people who go is unclear, possibly much higher than what is often given in the media. The number of males who would be classed as MGTOWs in the UK, is estimated at possibly 1 in 20, this is a very real minority, not as large as homosexuals or bis, still none the less sizeable.
Women hate hookers. Not because of what they do. But because of how they go about it.
They hate them because they are too blatant and open about what their intentions are.
They much prefer the girls who can pull off the 'long con' - like the women who can find rich guys and then take half their money.
Sadly - all women are the same.
Some you pay up front with cash on the table.
Others you pay at the end in the divorce courts.
The first type are cheaper and more honest.
They hate them because they are too blatant and open about what their intentions are.
They much prefer the girls who can pull off the 'long con' - like the women who can find rich guys and then take half their money.
Sadly - all women are the same.
Some you pay up front with cash on the table.
Others you pay at the end in the divorce courts.
The first type are cheaper and more honest.
Women just want to monopolize the sexual market place because it increases their power.
Hookers tend to drive down the cost of "buying the cow" because you can get the milk for cheap, relatively speaking.
Learning game is the best way to buck the system, but if every guy took advantage of it with equal effort, we'd still be back at square 1 with 20% of the guys pulling 80% of the ass.
I don't have a problem with the free market in that sense because I believe that people should take responsibility for what they want in life, but the fact that we have to spend at least a solid year of quality effort (if not a lot more) just to satisfy a physical need is a testament to something fucked up in society, when in the past dudes would just get married to get laid on a somewhat regular basis and then get on with whatever they wanted to accomplish with their lives.
Hookers tend to drive down the cost of "buying the cow" because you can get the milk for cheap, relatively speaking.
Learning game is the best way to buck the system, but if every guy took advantage of it with equal effort, we'd still be back at square 1 with 20% of the guys pulling 80% of the ass.
I don't have a problem with the free market in that sense because I believe that people should take responsibility for what they want in life, but the fact that we have to spend at least a solid year of quality effort (if not a lot more) just to satisfy a physical need is a testament to something fucked up in society, when in the past dudes would just get married to get laid on a somewhat regular basis and then get on with whatever they wanted to accomplish with their lives.
“I have a very simple rule when it comes to management: hire the best people from your competitors, pay them more than they were earning, and give them bonuses and incentives based on their performance. That’s how you build a first-class operation.”
― Donald J. Trump
If you want some PDF's on bodyweight exercise with little to no equipment, send me a PM and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.
The Red Light District in Amsterdam is great fun.
For the first ten minutes it feels weird. And then for the rest of the weekend it is the most normal chilled out place in the world.
The most fun is the choice. Literally 50 hot girls to choose from. Window shopping has never being this much fun.
Browsing for sex is great. It is like being in a bookstore - except you cum at the end.
For the first ten minutes it feels weird. And then for the rest of the weekend it is the most normal chilled out place in the world.
The most fun is the choice. Literally 50 hot girls to choose from. Window shopping has never being this much fun.
Browsing for sex is great. It is like being in a bookstore - except you cum at the end.
I used to have a job where I interacted with a lot of prostitutes. It's a totally different industry in the US and in Europe. The ones I know who worked in the US said most men used them for companionship. Those men were lonely and looking for company, not just sex. In Europe it's much more about just fucking.
These days I prefer porn. Less time, less hassle - same result.
I guess that makes me an omega loser.
Cool!
I don't give a fuck about anything except my books and bourbon.
And the lack of stress is great. And it is great not having to give a fuck what women think of you. I sometimes think I am the only truly free man as a result.
I guess that makes me an omega loser.
Cool!
I don't give a fuck about anything except my books and bourbon.
And the lack of stress is great. And it is great not having to give a fuck what women think of you. I sometimes think I am the only truly free man as a result.
Acronyms are for faggots. ASAP ETA MGTOW
I prefer it over all the other 'red pill' sectors like MRAs and PUAs since it does 3 things.
1. Searches for the truth regardless of how uncomfortable it makes anyone, and is intellectually honest.
2. The most masculine sector, real men don't bitch in divorce court or base thier whole life round getting sluts in bed
3. They're doing cool stuff, like going to random countries and banging foriegn ladies, driving muscle cars, discussing philosophy with whiskey in hand, ect ect
Hemingway would be proud
I prefer it over all the other 'red pill' sectors like MRAs and PUAs since it does 3 things.
1. Searches for the truth regardless of how uncomfortable it makes anyone, and is intellectually honest.
2. The most masculine sector, real men don't bitch in divorce court or base thier whole life round getting sluts in bed
3. They're doing cool stuff, like going to random countries and banging foriegn ladies, driving muscle cars, discussing philosophy with whiskey in hand, ect ect
Hemingway would be proud
The GirlWritesWhat video linked to above is very good. She is a smart person and I have seen some of her videos before. This is definitely one of her best ones.
Still - to comment on her video. Even if there was still a positive image to being a husband and a father these days. I would still opt out. Since I don't care what other people think.
And for those who have seen the video. If I were alive in the days of world war one. I would have taken all those white feathers and made a giant peacock hat out of them. Before wearing it whilst dancing merrily down the street.
Still - to comment on her video. Even if there was still a positive image to being a husband and a father these days. I would still opt out. Since I don't care what other people think.
And for those who have seen the video. If I were alive in the days of world war one. I would have taken all those white feathers and made a giant peacock hat out of them. Before wearing it whilst dancing merrily down the street.
GirlWriteWhat is probably one of the smartest female social commentators I've ever seen on youtube.
In spite of her haircut and that she's probably a mother, I'd hit that.
/is that beta?
In spite of her haircut and that she's probably a mother, I'd hit that.
/is that beta?
“I have a very simple rule when it comes to management: hire the best people from your competitors, pay them more than they were earning, and give them bonuses and incentives based on their performance. That’s how you build a first-class operation.”
― Donald J. Trump
If you want some PDF's on bodyweight exercise with little to no equipment, send me a PM and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.
The thing about these sites Roosh, MGTOW and the PUA sites is that it helps you see the bullshit for what it is. Some of the guys posting on various sites can be a little toxic, overall, when listening to the positive guys who have perspective they provide really useful insights.
I actually like the guys who are toxic. It helps me find the line of exactly how cynical I want to become. That said most of the guys seem legit and honestly trying to just figure something out, or share something they've figured out.
Return Of Kings had an article on MGTOW the other day:
http://www.returnofkings.com/5351/mgtow-...-than-mras
http://www.returnofkings.com/5351/mgtow-...-than-mras
Quote: (02-24-2013 08:29 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
Out of the PUA, MRA, and MGTOW stuff
(pick up artists, men's rights advocates, and men going their own way)
MGTOW has the appeal.
it doesn't come off as skeevy like Pick Up.
It doesn't come off as bitter as MRA often sounds.
It's men deciding that they want to live their lives on their own terms. They don't exist to be the engine for society, to build society and to be taxed by said society.
It appeals to the independent and self-sufficient nature of men, without any baggage of the other movements.
WIA
What I don't really get about mgtow is why it even exists (disclaimer: I haven't tried too hard to understand). Once I graduated from college and started supporting myself, I've pretty much done my best to live my life on my own terms. I made some dumb mistakes and also didn't take as many risks I could have, but I was independent and except where the law was involved (taxes, insurance, etc.) I just did whatever I wanted. I was productive, creative, made money, traveled, whatever.
That is, except in one area, which was women. I had social skills but very little success attracting the girls I wanted to fuck. I got lucky a couple of times (I have good looks) but eventually I realized I was (a) still flailing in the dark (b) sublimating and rationalizing subpar relationships with women I did not truly desire.
The details are a story for another time, suffice to say that with some encouragement I deliberately sought out game resources for self-improvement. That's how I found Roosh initially, and then I stuck around because I found a lot of other interesting ideas. That's how I wound up exposed to the MRA stuff, and while I think MRA's reputation for bitterness and whining is somewhat deserved and they can be as prone to denying reality as feminists, I found many quality articles and legal topics I had not considered before.
But MGTOW... I've never seen any truly interesting blog or online resource, nor would I have any reason to seek out such a group on my own. Game and MRA types always seem to be talking about MGTOW, and while the concept makes a ton of sense I don't understand its appeal as a distinct movement.
Most MGTOW writings I come across is from men in their 50's bitching about their second failed marriage.
To me - the stories are quite entertaining. Particularly since in 99% of cases - the details are the same. It is just the names that change. So - it is quite interesting to see these patterns show up.
But yeah. You probably won't find as much useful/positive information in MGTOW as you would elsewhere since MGTOW has no underlying philosophy. It is like zen. Do what you want, and try and be happy.
So - in a sense - PUA is a part of MGTOW - but not all MGTOW are part of the PUA scene.
The PUA and MRA scene has created a useful space on the internet for men to get together, share stories and give advice.
And - later on - I guess the MGTOW scene developed for those who are interested in the above fields. And like sharing stories and information. Yet - are not so bothered about the endless pursuit of pussy. And are also pessimistic about any efforts which will help change laws which are tilted against men. Particularly since it is a 'zero sum' game in which any changes to the law will be at the expense of women. And as such will never be allowed to happen.
Still - alot of the stuff you come across in MGTOW (like the repeated warnings against marriage) can be useful in helping strengthen your 'frame' when it comes to dealing with women. Since the best way to negotiate a deal - is to be prepared to walk away...
To me - the stories are quite entertaining. Particularly since in 99% of cases - the details are the same. It is just the names that change. So - it is quite interesting to see these patterns show up.
But yeah. You probably won't find as much useful/positive information in MGTOW as you would elsewhere since MGTOW has no underlying philosophy. It is like zen. Do what you want, and try and be happy.
So - in a sense - PUA is a part of MGTOW - but not all MGTOW are part of the PUA scene.
The PUA and MRA scene has created a useful space on the internet for men to get together, share stories and give advice.
And - later on - I guess the MGTOW scene developed for those who are interested in the above fields. And like sharing stories and information. Yet - are not so bothered about the endless pursuit of pussy. And are also pessimistic about any efforts which will help change laws which are tilted against men. Particularly since it is a 'zero sum' game in which any changes to the law will be at the expense of women. And as such will never be allowed to happen.
Still - alot of the stuff you come across in MGTOW (like the repeated warnings against marriage) can be useful in helping strengthen your 'frame' when it comes to dealing with women. Since the best way to negotiate a deal - is to be prepared to walk away...
Thanks for the link. I am a big fan of that blog. Everyone should check him out. He is the only blogger I have seen who is interesting, writes well and comes from a MGTOW perspective.
I don't think MGTOW are just guys who reject feminism. I'd always thought it was people who "swallowed the red pill" and therefore thought most established social institutions and values had become corrupted to the point that men who sought to fulfill society's expectations were just being enslaved. Studying hard=student loans and no job. Working hard=low pay, high taxes, offshoring, limited upward mobility. Marriage=loss of assets, loss of sex, loss of child custody, financial enslavement. MGTOW attempt to avoid this by unplugging from society in some way - expatriation, celibacy, whoremongering, rejection of materialism.
I think PUAs and MRAs are different in that they just focus on dealing with women and are working within the system.
I think PUAs and MRAs are different in that they just focus on dealing with women and are working within the system.
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