[Samseau]

NOTE: This has been my experience with American women. In different cultures this may not apply, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is universal.

The question is, "How do you get a girlfriend/LTR?" There's always been two schools of thought in the game:

- One where you take it slow, in order to "build" a relationship.

- One where you push for sex ASAP.

Not that I'm interested in having a LTR, but for me, the game is about knowledge more than it is about the pussy, so after the No-Dating Challenge, where I learned how to get lots of fast sex, curiosity dictated that I try the opposite to see what the results would be.

From another thread, Iknowexactly posed a question...

(02-05-2012 03:06 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

If you wanted an LTR with this chick, what should be done differently?

Is the here consensus bagging a chick for LTR is IDENTICAL to SNL strategy? Roosh has argued that and I'm not sure I agree. Since I suck at either lol I'm interested in the response.

I'm happy to say I can now answer this question. My conclusion is if you want a LTR you need to bang her as fast as possible.

I realized this is true after experimenting with dating for three weeks in January; I wouldn't try and close on the first night or first date. None of those girls went anywhere. One girl in particular, who I had been making out with at the club and who agreed to let me take her home, was a good experiment.

We were walking back to my car and there was a random apartment building. Just to see if it would be possible for me to get her inside of my place, I said to her,

S: "Oh look! What do you know, there's my apartment building."

Her: "What? No it isn't."

I proceed to walk up to the apartment building's front doors, and she follows me up to the doors. I turn around and start smiling and laughing at her, and I walk away from the apartment building.

Her: "Oh my god! You're the WORST!"

And she grabs onto my arm and keeps walking with me. As we continue to walk towards my car, I make a confession.

S: "Will you be disappointed if I don't push for sex tonight?"

Her: "Yes."

I look at her. Her eyebrows furrow together like she just said something wrong, and said back to me,

Her: "No, I mean NO. I'll respect you, I'll remember you, I'll be thankful for you taking things slow and keeping your distance. Not pushing for sex means you're a gentleman."

S: "You said yes first. I think that was a Freudian slip."

She laughed.

S: "Well, too bad for you. I'm not that kind of guy. I need lots of trust and comfort first. You will not be getting any action tonight."

I finally drove her back to where she was staying for the night (at her friends), and I dropped her off. She would not get out of my car, and kept making out with me. Took her twenty minutes to leave my car. We had exchanged numbers and picked a day to meet up on later.


Never heard from her again. This girl was a very good experiment, because I know I could have gone for the bang and most likely gotten it, as she walked up to that apartment building with me and would have gone inside. I know she wanted me to make a move, and her confession that she tried to backpedal on only confirmed it. She had a killer body, but was 29 years old, so it wasn't a big loss for me to experiment with her. And because she was 29, it also shows that "taking it slow" isn't any more effective on older women than it is with younger women.

After this experiment, I had falsified the concept of "taking it slow". Here, I had the chance to bang but I did not. If taking it slow was a good strategy, I would have met up with her again. But I did not meet up with her again, which means taking it slow was not a good strategy.

You might think that I can't judge off just one girl, but I disagree, since so many of the variables were accounted for (she was attracted to me, she had kissed me, she showed she was willing to go somewhere private, she confessed she wanted me to push for sex, she was older, etc.). One good experiment is worth ten half-assed attempts.


So after this, I went back to the usual strategy of blitzing for sex.

Two weeks later I have a two girls chasing my ass, calling me up, asking to hang out with me again and again, and with both of them I tried to fuck them the same night (but couldn't), then tried to fuck them on the first date (and got one lay).

The girl who didn't put out on the first date had a bad trip on the weed I smoked with her, and didn't call me back up for a week and a half, but we're scheduled to hang out on Tuesday night. Meanwhile the other girl fucks like a rabbit and has already agreed to go on the Pill.

And during this time I'm continually meeting new girls (but I'm taking the time to learn Salsa instead of sarging full-time).


So, the basic strategy for getting a girlfriend is to:

1. Bang them ASAP.

2. Let the ones who like you call/text you back.


They have to chase you, otherwise it doesn't work. Chasing a girl shows you're low value, so to get a girlfriend you must game and fuck her so good she comes back for more.

That's all there is to it.

[BadgerHut]

Bingo. I picked up on this a while back, obviously a woman has to find you attractive to want a relationship with you, and today's young women will judge a man less attractive if he's not constantly sexually escalating. They really seem to have hair triggers to judge a guy as man-defective.

This is another arena where guys have to side with what women do and not what they say. Women may say they want guys to be "gentlemen" and not push for sex, but those guys don't get their voicemails returned.

It's a bit bizarre, because young women are always bitching (like over at Hooking Up Beta) that they feel pressure to sleep with a guy quickly or they won't have relationships, but men are in the same boat.

One criticism of this is "but what if she gets offended/creeped out and doesn't want to see you again?" This is a variation of the "game only helps you get slutty bar chicks, quality girls don't fall for game."

First, I bet the ratio of women who write you off because you were sexually forward to those who write you off because you didn't push hard enough is 1:10 or more.

You hear stories from chicks of bad first dates where guys pushed really hard for sex and they got creeped. Well, if she thinks you're attractive and your game is reasonably tight (and you know when to quit), she's going to want to see you again, even if she doesn't feel comfortable enough to hit it yet. So when women complain about guys who push for sex, they're complaining about unattractive guys trying to have sex with them.

[Single Dad Swag]

I can agree with this.

It sort of lends itself to instinctual psychology and falls back on the premise of the alpha/beta concept that has become so popular within the game community.

Pushing for the bang demonstrates confidence and assumed value. Projecting that you need time and trust before opening yourself up sexually, as a male, demonstrates insecurity.. which is not at all attractive or desirable.

[LowerCaseG]

Another obvious factor is the ability to demonstrate your sexual prowess. After you have shown that you know what you are doing, and are able to satisfy her, she will naturally become addicted to you, and want more and more. From what I absorb from women it seems like 80% of the dudes out there are insta-nutters.

[Scarlet_Terror]

Quote:

You hear stories from chicks of bad first dates where guys pushed really hard for sex and they got creeped. Well, if she thinks you're attractive and your game is reasonably tight (and you know when to quit), she's going to want to see you again, even if she doesn't feel comfortable enough to hit it yet. So when women complain about guys who push for sex, they're complaining about unattractive guys trying to have sex with them.

Brilliantly true.

[BadgerHut]

(02-05-2012 01:28 PM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  

From what I absorb from women it seems like 80% of the dudes out there are insta-nutters.

That's actually why I never participate in any no-fap challenge. You have to balance keeping your hunger against the tendency to blow quickly. It's notable that a common prescription for premature ejaculation is to jerk off the days you plan to have sex.

[BadgerHut]

(02-05-2012 01:32 PM)Scarlet_Terror Wrote:  

Quote:

You hear stories from chicks of bad first dates where guys pushed really hard for sex and they got creeped. Well, if she thinks you're attractive and your game is reasonably tight (and you know when to quit), she's going to want to see you again, even if she doesn't feel comfortable enough to hit it yet. So when women complain about guys who push for sex, they're complaining about unattractive guys trying to have sex with them.

Brilliantly true.

I think knowing when she's really committed to NOT banging that night is key. Then you calmly slip out, without any butthurtness (which is a bit of a takeaway), and live for the next date. Another thing I got from the players that works, I never talk about the next meetup. Just say goodbye and let her wonder for a day if you'll call again.

[Samseau]

(02-05-2012 12:56 PM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

You hear stories from chicks of bad first dates where guys pushed really hard for sex and they got creeped. Well, if she thinks you're attractive and your game is reasonably tight (and you know when to quit), she's going to want to see you again, even if she doesn't feel comfortable enough to hit it yet. So when women complain about guys who push for sex, they're complaining about unattractive guys trying to have sex with them.

If a guy pushes hard for sex and the girl is creeped out, you gotta ask yourself:

"Why did she go out with him in the first place if she never considered having sex with him?"

[BadgerHut]

(02-06-2012 12:04 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(02-05-2012 12:56 PM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

You hear stories from chicks of bad first dates where guys pushed really hard for sex and they got creeped. Well, if she thinks you're attractive and your game is reasonably tight (and you know when to quit), she's going to want to see you again, even if she doesn't feel comfortable enough to hit it yet. So when women complain about guys who push for sex, they're complaining about unattractive guys trying to have sex with them.

If a guy pushes hard for sex and the girl is creeped out, you gotta ask yourself:

"Why did she go out with him in the first place if she never considered having sex with him?"

That's basically what I ask women when this subject comes up. Shirley they plan on having sex at some point? Or why are they dating a cold-start prospect? So take it as a compliment that he's trying to sleep with you and not somebody else.

I also tell women that the whole "I want to wait until I feel ready" thing is way overplayed. Nobody should have sex if they don't want to have it, but the fact of the matter is you'll never feel totally ready for something until long after you should have done it.

[soup]

I call it the big-bang theory of relationships: have sex as soon as possible because a) it's important to know if you are compatible in bed asap so you don't waste your time if you guys aren't b) you got to get her oxcytocin flowing in order for her to bond to you.

[InternationPlayboy]

This is definitely correct for American girls.

[Cincinnatus]

(02-06-2012 12:04 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

If a guy pushes hard for sex and the girl is creeped out, you gotta ask yourself:

"Why did she go out with him in the first place if she never considered having sex with him?"

Meal ticket. There's a whole category of women out there that'll happily use a beta for all the resources they can get out of him, without putting out.

That said, when it comes to LTRs - the only one I've managed well these last few years has been with a chick whose virginity I took. The other bitches have had more than their share of cock already and I've no interest in locking them down.

[Excelsior]

This is completely and totally accurate for American women.

This kind of goes back to the post I made over in G-Man's thread about the latest episode of the Travel Bum show where he travels to Cancun and interacts with both American and Mexican girls.

The basic gist of that long post was that when it comes to American girls, you must adhere to your most base instincts in order to succeed. The Travel Bum noticed this too: whenever he tried to approach American girls, he fell flat unless he was shitfaced. The alcohol allowed him to be more crude/base and sexually direct, and this is the only type of talk that got a warm response from them (ex: "I feel like we don't even need to talk, we can just go and make babies right now").
He could calmly and soberly approach Mexican girls and talk about respectful, non-sexual things to begin with (ex: what do you study, why do you study it, etc)-he didn't need to escalate immediately to get a good response from her. One of them even thanked him after he was done and suggested a place to meet up.

When he tried that on the Americans, they essentially rolled their eyes and quickly told him (non verbally) to fuck off. They simply have no tolerance for anything above a base level of sexual conduct when it comes to beginning a relationship. If anything, that repulses them.

What young guys need to remember is that with the average American woman, you must devolve, and regress to a more primal state of being (read: become a caveman). There is no room for calm, measured approaches, no room for chivalry, no room for anything remotely gentlemanly or intellectual, and no time to wait a few dates for sex. Throw ALL of that out the window, or prepare for involuntary celibacy.

For some guys this is VERY difficult to do, especially if you're more of an intellectual type, but they need to find a way. Dating here is fiercely anti-intellectual. Girls do not want to hear anything "too smart" from the men they're with-this is an instant turn off. Dumb it down, and hide your intelligence until well after you've become intimately acquainted.

You have no time to waste for escalation either-it needs to happen quickly, or she will disappear. Get sexual fast. Keep it within reason (use common sense-you should know what'll get you labelled a rapist/creeper) but don't be afraid to be forward or say something that seems too "explicit" for someone you're not involved with yet-with the American woman, it is almost never too much. Make ample use of light touches and other forms of kino escalation.

You need to just assume that she is willing to fuck on the first night, and treat her accordingly-if you have her on a pedestal as many young guys do ("oh, she's WAY too sweet for that, I'm sure she wouldn't appreciate me objectifying her so early. Better take it slow!"), knock her off of it-ASSUME she's already fucking someone else. Chances are that if she isn't fucking you right off the bat, she actually is fucking someone else early-I don't care who she is or how "innocent" she appears.

If you are just too respectful/laidback a guy to do this naturally, then use alcohol as an aid. Figure out the level of intoxication you need that'll allow you to regularly escalate early and without fear (without getting blackout/sloppy drunk), and get it in your system. This has helped me quite a bit. Normally, I'm very prone to sounding "too smart" or "too nice" if left to soberly converse with a girl. When I have a solid buzz on, I become an aggressive caveman-women seem to prefer that version of me a lot more.

Bottomline: With American women, it is an absolute, balls-to-the-wall race to the bottom, and the first man (or men-many of these girls are far from monogamous) to get there wins. Find the fastest route downhill and you're golden. He who dares, wins.

On a related (and more "macro") note: In the Travel Bum video, I noticed a bunch of foreign guys (mainly the Argentinians) saying that American girls were hard. I've heard this from other foreign men as well. A few of us here must naturally think that this is absurd, since we know how slutty american girls are relative to others.

However, I think this thread topic might shed some light onto why other guys think this way. Think about it: we've concluded here that to succeed with American girls, you MUST escalate very rapidly, even if you want an LTR. In many other societies, things run quite the contrary: you're expected to court for a little while and be respectful before you get into bed. Same-night-lays in these places are not very common relative to the US, and you can actually hurt your chances if you escalate too openly and rapidly.

For a guy coming from a society like that, America would be extremely challenging to adjust to. He simply won't be prepared to escalate as quickly as he'd need to, and it could take him a very long time to adjust.

[The Geographer]

[Stoic]

Athlone, ridiculously accurate man. Really hit home. Because of how successful I've been the past couple nights, I've been frustrated that I couldn't remember what I said to chicks due to being drunk!

As an intellectual type, I must keep reminding myself this:

"What young guys need to remember is that with the average American woman, you must devolve, and regress to a more primal state of being (read: become a caveman). There is no room for calm, measured approaches, no room for chivalry, no room for anything remotely gentlemanly or intellectual, and no time to wait a few dates for sex. Throw ALL of that out the window, or prepare for involuntary celibacy."

[reaper23]

(02-06-2012 06:15 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

This is completely and totally accurate for American women.

great post but i have a question -

does this apply across the board in all situations or just night game?

[Excelsior]

(02-07-2012 09:34 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

(02-06-2012 06:15 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

This is completely and totally accurate for American women.

great post but i have a question -

does this apply across the board in all situations or just night game?

The general philosophy ("push for the lay as quickly as you can") applies to all girls regardless of where you meet them.

Obviously, a same night lay is easier to arrange if you've just met the girl in a club or bar. If you meet at noon in a coffee shop or on the street (followed perhaps by a brief insta-date if you're fortunate), chances are you're going to have to arrange another date (either that night or later that week) to move forward.

In both cases, however, you need to escalate rapidly. We've already seen what this means in night game: when you meet a girl in the club/bar, just escalate quickly that night. In the case of the girl you met during the day/anywhere outside of the club or bar, this would mean escalating on the very first date you schedule after you first meet and pushing for the lay then. You can afford to delay escalating heavily during the first meet (where you introduce yourself, get the number, maybe do a quick insta-date, etc), so long as your game is tight enough to get her to agree to go on a date with you soon-she will not necessarily write you off for not being aggressive here. The clock starts ticking after this-if you do not escalate rapidly on that first date, you're likely toast.

Don't bother "taking it slow", bringing her to dinner or anything formal for your first date and chivalrously following any "three-date" rules. Bring her to a comfortable lounge, club or bar (preferably after dinner time), have some casual drinks, and escalate quickly that same night. If you don't, she'll probably write you off.

[Basil Ransom]

Samseau and Athlone, great posts.

Just to confirm - are you guys getting no traction with girls you haven't fucked? This has been happening to me for a little while now, and I thought it was some flaw in my game - my rapport phase has always been a little weak. I found that almost every time, if I didn't bang a girl on the first date, I didn't see her again, or would not ultimately bang her even if we did meet up again later. If I didn't fuck her the first night, I just became this non-entity in her head, either not compelling enough to see again, or not sex worthy. Even if I fingered them on the first date. My main mistake was only having 1-2 drinks with them, even though the dates were always at my place, where I didn't have to drive.

This is pretty mind-blowing. Because NO ONE is talking about this. About the fact that you have to fuck a girl, and fuck her well, on the first date if you want to see her again. All this BS about girls complaining how hard dating is, this talk about dating in the modern world... it has no connection to the reality we live in. Maybe it's different in social circle game, which is the most common way to find a mate.

[lurker123123]

(02-07-2012 01:23 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Maybe it's different in social circle game, which is the most common way to find a mate.

good point you probably have more leeway to take things slightly slower. the majority of men, traditional betas, arent banging on the first date but theyre probably meeting through social circles. in the rough and tumble world of cold approaching its a different game

[drymarro]

Great posts guys. Just 2 nights ago I started talking to this one girl. We had a great conversation and she was really cool. She had to go so I got her number. I texted her the next day and she didn't respond after figuring out who it was. I can say this happens every time you don't kino enough and get enough sexual tension. I'm learning from my mistakes though and am changing my methods. Note I'm one of the rare few guys that approaches groups of girls and games them at college parties.

[reaper23]

i usually do push for the fuck asap. in fact my current girlfriend was taken with me right away because i grabbed and kissed her 30 minutes into our first date (okcupid).

one night i had a early shift date with one girl and late night meet up scheduled with another.

on the early date, i escalated until the point of fingering her wet pussy but stopped just short of fucking her, only because i literally was leaving there to go have a sure thing fuck in a few minutes.

that girl i didnt fuck? never responded to me ever again after that.

she and i played okcupid tag for weeks, texted, emailed, had a date, she invited me back to her house, we made out i fingered her and everything and then she never responded ever again

i always wondered about that. i thought i had her set up, leaving her hungry for me, etc. but in reality, she just turned cold. odd.

[Basil Ransom]

(02-07-2012 01:33 PM)lurker123123 Wrote:  

(02-07-2012 01:23 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Maybe it's different in social circle game, which is the most common way to find a mate.

good point you probably have more leeway to take things slightly slower. the majority of men, traditional betas, arent banging on the first date but theyre probably meeting through social circles. in the rough and tumble world of cold approaching its a different game

Well what often happens, is that girls and guys hang out together a lot, have known each other for months or years, and then one night they hook up and bang.

For instance, in college, I met this girl on the street outside a bar, and we got to talking. I hooked up that night, and then went on a date with her, and I don't think I even got her bra off, she was that prude. A couple months later, I find out a close friend of mine banged her one night. They had been friends before for a year or two, and she began to come by here and there to bang him every so often. I'm pretty sure her notch count was low too.

IMO, banging a guy on the first date and banging an old friend on a drunk night out are equally slutty, but girls clearly don't feel that way. In a sense, even in social circles, the progression is just as fast. Girls today don't actually like anyone. She has no interest in you as a person, or most any other man for that matter. But she will reward you with vagina if you can turn her on and push her buttons right, and strike when the opportunity arises.

[Parlay44]

If you want a girlfriend you gotta hit raw dawg and drop a fat load. Semen is chemically addictive to women.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/...lled-semen

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-...depressant

[jariel]

(02-07-2012 09:34 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

great post but i have a question -

does this apply across the board in all situations or just night game?

Don't use night game to find LTR material.

[Raoul]

Yes, don't get LTR materials from the clubs/bars. I was hitting the clubs three nights in a week last time. And I fell in love with a girl I banged from one particular club. That's the beginning of my first mistake - I made her my girlfriend because of her stunning looks. She ended up cheating on me because she was and still is a party girl. No matter how tight your game is, if you're with a slut, she will stray.

(02-07-2012 02:10 PM)jariel Wrote:  

Don't use night game to find LTR material.