[SVK]

Great post Athlone, exactly my experience with American women as well. As a foreigner I had hard time at first, but it really that simple:

1. Get drunk to your right level
2. Have fun
3. Take her home

However, if I bang a girl that soon, I lose interest in LTR since I already got what I wanted and she gets put into the FWB bucket. I guess that's why all the LTR have been with non-American girls

[FretDancer]

(02-07-2012 01:45 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

If you want a girlfriend you gotta hit raw dawg and drop a fat load. Semen is chemically addictive to women.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/...lled-semen

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-...depressant

Interesting reads, wonder if its true. If so, I wonder if it also works via orla administration.

[Parlay44]

(02-07-2012 04:06 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

(02-07-2012 01:45 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

If you want a girlfriend you gotta hit raw dawg and drop a fat load. Semen is chemically addictive to women.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/...lled-semen

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-...depressant

Interesting reads, wonder if its true. If so, I wonder if it also works via orla administration.

Possibly. If you like that then you should read about the Gospel of Eve. They consider the eating of Semen as a religious act.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Eve

http://sacredsemen.com/

[MikeCF]

(02-07-2012 01:45 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

If you want a girlfriend you gotta hit raw dawg and drop a fat load. Semen is chemically addictive to women.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/...lled-semen

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-...depressant

Good point.

[FretDancer]

Wow that is really quite some literature. Showing this to some chicks who dont do BJs really gotta put them to think, at least.

[Roosh]

The best flake defense is to fuck the girl immediately.

Quote:

"Will you be disappointed if I don't push for sex tonight?"

Nice feeler line. I will use.

[Swagger]

To the original poster Samseau,
You asked a very valid question but then when it came to supporting your conclusion you never actually tried the " One where you take it slow, in order to "build" a relationship." IMHO. You got the conversation to be sexual, got her thinking about sex and then withdrew, as in not making a move. Girls flake when you do that.
This is very different from holding hands/making out on the first date, going to 2nd base by date 3 and so on which is where "taking it slow" applies.

[Samseau]

Athlone Wrote:

Bottomline: With American women, it is an absolute, balls-to-the-wall race to the bottom, and the first man (or men-many of these girls are far from monogamous) to get there wins. Find the fastest route downhill and you're golden. He who dares, wins.

See, I don't know if this is just for American women. I think all women are more or less the same in regards to this.

Culture might have something to do with rewarding men who escalate quickly, or it might not. I'm not sure either way.

basilransom Wrote:

Just to confirm - are you guys getting no traction with girls you haven't fucked?

Correct

Swagger Wrote:

You asked a very valid question but then when it came to supporting your conclusion you never actually tried the " One where you take it slow, in order to "build" a relationship." IMHO. You got the conversation to be sexual, got her thinking about sex and then withdrew, as in not making a move. Girls flake when you do that.
This is very different from holding hands/making out on the first date, going to 2nd base by date 3 and so on which is where "taking it slow" applies.

I don't think taking it even more slow will make the approach more effective. If me taking it slower got bad results, how would taking it even slower be more effective?

Also, holding hands on the first date? Is this middle school?


I've done dates where there was only a kiss as well; 100% flake on those girls.

[Excelsior]

(02-09-2012 12:43 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Athlone Wrote:

Bottomline: With American women, it is an absolute, balls-to-the-wall race to the bottom, and the first man (or men-many of these girls are far from monogamous) to get there wins. Find the fastest route downhill and you're golden. He who dares, wins.

See, I don't know if this is just for American women. I think all women are more or less the same in regards to this.

I'm feel quite confident of it. American women are not the only women on Earth that this applies to, but international differences in the response to rapid sexual escalation (either verbally or physically) and the necessity of its use very early on certainly exist.

Some women require more of a base demeanor from men than others, and will expect it earlier and be more likely to reward it with an SNL. On the other hand, there are cultures on this Earth where one can afford to delay the caveman act for a little and actually be a "gentleman" without getting written off almost instantly-in fact, it may even help you.

Its all about getting in where you fit in.

[iknowexactly]

I think there's some possible selection factor here too. Especially where slut-cost* is higher (poorer countries); women may be trying to specifically avoid Guys Like You (pump and dump guys).
they may avoid "night life" ( I see night life as practically a euphemism for alcohol abuse at this point)
and cuing at all in public places. You may hardly see them and falsely conclude they don't exist.

This would make sense for evolutionary reasons, because guys who pair bond will invest more in the child.

I think the value of the "attack immediately" strategy has two obvious environments favoring it:

1) True caveman society where impregnation's only goal
2) 1st world where women and kids are paid for whether guy is there or not. Or to be more colorful, the "Rat Race Hypergamy Environment" (RRHE)


*slut-cost-- negative consequences for promiscuity in a given society and time. Currently low in 1st world countries (esp. lower class) because child support laws will attach the fathers assets anyway). High in 2nd/3rd world-- all other things being equal-- because the child will have fewer resources and the mother will become very undesirable to to other men.

[at350zguyy]

interesting points here...and now that i go back, the women ive gotten in bed early on in knowing them have ended up being LTRs

[theIVth]

Ive learned that if you want a girl to be down with you, you have to treat them all the same in the beginning....u need to be focused solely on trying to fuck them. Taking your time to try to fuck because you think she is too special to push the issue, will backfire a lot of times.

If a woman is not fucking you, she doesnt really like you. Thats what I live by. You are not going to really be on her mind like that unless you are fucking her. Point blank.

The key to a womans heart is through her pussy.

So whether you want a fuck buddy or a girlfriend, fucking them and getting them sprung off of the dick is the most sure way to get it done.

[Schoolboy_D]

I've realized I have no interest in getting a LTR and I seem to can't to get any love on the second day therefore I have to go for the one-nighter...

[Gixxermuscle]

I just wanted to echo Antholone's fantastic post. I find this to be the reality in clubs, Toronto specifically, cave man sexual aggression is the key to North American chicks (night game). The fact that a lot of guys just stand around and hold there drinks hoping a girl comes up to them, just makes this strategy so much more powerful. It boggles my mind how many dudes just line the walls of clubs, waiting for who knows what.

Regarding the blitz to bang, I agree with this 100 percent. This is absolutely key. YOu must remember, before you lace a chick, she knows she has something you want, she has something of value. Once you bang her, you've taken something from her. You got the prize. Tides of power shift. The dynamics shift. I also firmly believe there is a biological interaction occurring as another poster pointed out, something happens in the female brain which increases their attraction.

[Manystyles]

(02-07-2012 08:06 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

The best flake defense is to fuck the girl immediately.

Quote:

"Will you be disappointed if I don't push for sex tonight?"

Nice feeler line. I will use.

How would one go about using this line during a date or first meet up?

[Veloce]

Just another affirmation that's being said here:

3 recent girls have said the same thing, making it actually kind of creepy: "I like to have sex with a guy early on because if he's a bad lay it's just a waste of time."

It sounds unbelievably masculine.

Of course, these girls don't realize that hearing them say that reduces their value to me, to the point I'd never want to commit to them.

Regardless, going for the bang asap is crucial. I can think of two instances a while ago where I failed big time. Both involved either me or the girl being dropped off from a car after a major make out session. We're talking where the girl is moaning sexually from the makeout...my hand in her crotch, squeezing her tits, etc, and she's INTO it. One of them gave me the "I have to wake up early" and the other gave me, "My place is a mess" and both times I idiotically replied, "Ok, some other time." WRONG. Neither one responded to me after that. I didn't push.

Whether it's a ONS or an LTR it's all the same. Go for the bang asap. Push through whatever bullshit she throws at you. It's a test.

[Sebastian]

I honestly thought 'bang her asap' comments from those forums fucked up my mind.

There were times I banged a girl and she got buyer's remorse.
If I waited little bit, I could keep her as regular bang. I felt like I killed the 'goose'

Doesn't it also make you look like you haven't got laid for a while if you go for the bang?
No girls will just let you do whatever you want. you will face resistances when you try to pull down her bra, take her pants off, finger her etc.
You are not in vegas for one night. If your goal is keep banging her in the future, would you keep trying?

[Cruisen_Chubby]

(02-07-2012 01:45 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

If you want a girlfriend you gotta hit raw dawg and drop a fat load. Semen is chemically addictive to women.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/...lled-semen

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-...depressant

Great find!

I recently just started banging my ex (first girlfriend from high school) again. I started out using condoms but then threw caution to the wind and creampied her out of desire or hate, not sure which one yet.

Ever since then, been getting a text everyday. She was acting rather aloof until my "scientifically proven" magical load was burried in her furrow.

I'd be lying if I didn't tell you i've been losing sleep on a pregnancy scare though.

[UnW]

(02-05-2012 12:56 PM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

Bingo. I picked up on this a while back, obviously a woman has to find you attractive to want a relationship with you, and today's young women will judge a man less attractive if he's not constantly sexually escalating. They really seem to have hair triggers to judge a guy as man-defective.

This is another arena where guys have to side with what women do and not what they say. Women may say they want guys to be "gentlemen" and not push for sex, but those guys don't get their voicemails returned.

It's a bit bizarre, because young women are always bitching (like over at Hooking Up Beta) that they feel pressure to sleep with a guy quickly or they won't have relationships, but men are in the same boat.

One criticism of this is "but what if she gets offended/creeped out and doesn't want to see you again?" This is a variation of the "game only helps you get slutty bar chicks, quality girls don't fall for game."

First, I bet the ratio of women who write you off because you were sexually forward to those who write you off because you didn't push hard enough is 1:10 or more.

You hear stories from chicks of bad first dates where guys pushed really hard for sex and they got creeped. Well, if she thinks you're attractive and your game is reasonably tight (and you know when to quit), she's going to want to see you again, even if she doesn't feel comfortable enough to hit it yet. So when women complain about guys who push for sex, they're complaining about unattractive guys trying to have sex with them.

Prime reasons why you should never listen to what a girl says but observe what she actually does. They act on emotions and not logic,

eg. "OH I WANT GUYS TO TAKE CARE OF ME AND LOVE ME FOR WHO I AM AND NOT JUST USE ME FOR SEX"

*Bangs a random dude from a club the next night*

[Nomad77]

@Samseau drawing any conclusion from such an extremely small sample is, actually just one, is virtually meaningless. The first question would be is the girl LTR material to begin with? All guys I know categories girls into two groups: LTR material and bangs. For ALL of my LTR/girlfriends I did not bang quickly and I did not lose them. But then again, any girl that goes out on the date with me is mine to lose, so maybe I am not a good sample...

[Samseau]

One man's pump n'dump is another man's LTR material


All women are fundamentally the same

[Samseau]

As for the sample size being too small... I addressed that in the OP:

Quote:

You might think that I can't judge off just one girl, but I disagree, since so many of the variables were accounted for (she was attracted to me, she had kissed me, she showed she was willing to go somewhere private, she confessed she wanted me to push for sex, she was older, etc.). One good experiment is worth ten half-assed attempts.

This is called intuition. It's not scientific but that's okay because game does not need science.

And my intuition was proved right 7 months later:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-15569-...61826.html

[The Come Back]

(02-05-2012 12:56 PM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

Bingo. I picked up on this a while back, obviously a woman has to find you attractive to want a relationship with you, and today's young women will judge a man less attractive if he's not constantly sexually escalating. They really seem to have hair triggers to judge a guy as man-defective.

This is another arena where guys have to side with what women do and not what they say. Women may say they want guys to be "gentlemen" and not push for sex, but those guys don't get their voicemails returned.

It's a bit bizarre, because young women are always bitching (like over at Hooking Up Beta) that they feel pressure to sleep with a guy quickly or they won't have relationships, but men are in the same boat.

One criticism of this is "but what if she gets offended/creeped out and doesn't want to see you again?" This is a variation of the "game only helps you get slutty bar chicks, quality girls don't fall for game."

First, I bet the ratio of women who write you off because you were sexually forward to those who write you off because you didn't push hard enough is 1:10 or more.

You hear stories from chicks of bad first dates where guys pushed really hard for sex and they got creeped. Well, if she thinks you're attractive and your game is reasonably tight (and you know when to quit), she's going to want to see you again, even if she doesn't feel comfortable enough to hit it yet. So when women complain about guys who push for sex, they're complaining about unattractive guys trying to have sex with them.

More specifically they are complaining about guys with weak game that pushed for sex. (I almost said beta who pushed for sex but thats an oxymoron)

[RexImperator]

Interested in revisiting this thread. Would the consensus still agree on this?

[void]

Before anything, there is a BANG. What holds true for our universe, also holds true for relationships. Her chasing you in a social circle scenario is the only other possibility, as mentioned by the OP.