[Ivanis]

(12-06-2016 09:16 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

Ivanis....

It is great that you are willing to provide extensive personal details, and I suppose that you still consider your work to be "in-progress."

I don't necessarily believe in having any specific weight goals because if you can get your eating, sleep and exercise levels in a decent and sustainable place, then it is quite likely that the weight will adjust to levels that are healthy for you.

My experiences, in terms of body composition, are quite a bit different from yours, and I am only 5' 9" and my weight out of high school was about 130lbs, I was pretty lean into my late teens and I started weight lifting after highschool and gained about 25 lbs of decent muscle weight in less than 2 years... so I was actually between 155lbs and 165lbs for many years.

I always was quite active too into my 30s, but I think that in my late 30s and early 40s, I had become more of a weekend warrior. I would spend all week at a desk and then active on the weekends, and so probably from 32 years old to 44 years old I had slowly crept up from 170lbs to about 200lbs (I think that during this time, my kind of unconsiously eating of junk food and lots of carbs increased too). In the past several years, I have brought my weight back down to around 175lbs and I have kind of maintained between 175lbs and 180lbs...


So yeah, the personal circumstances of each of us can differ and cause different issues in terms of how badly your body was abused and how sensitive your body has become to continued abuse. I personally do think that there is a lot more potential to recover from bodily abuse when younger, and your implication that there could be some difficult damages to overcome is likely correct.

I see that some of your goals are lifestyle related, yet more personally, I wonder if you have goals in terms of a weight range or perhaps you would like to get off of the metformin in a few years?

I think that it can take quite a while to make bodily changes and to even attempt to cause yourself from having fewer and fewer carb cravings. I don't really believe in the concept of cheat days, but I do believe in some kind of 80/20 rule or something like that.. meaning if you can create a system that is generally 80% good, and follow that with consistency, you can have those splurges at parties etc and don't have to worry about it because it is just once in a while. So on a weekly level, you would eat good food every day, then maybe once every couple of weeks you could participate in various deviations that could be related to parties, holidays or whatever (and some folks may ask you whether you can eat x, y or z, and you say: "I can eat whatever the fuck that I want, but I choose not to." hahahahahaha), but most of the time, you would just stick with a system that is good for you and your lifestyle that does not involve splurges on a regular or even a scheduled basis.

Thanks for the response,

I have a weight goal in mind, I originally kept it to myself, just as a personal test of self discipline, if I told no one but myself I could only hold myself responsible. My main goal is to stay at about 220lbs-240lbs, I am a rather large guy so that would put me at around 15% body fat. Staying about there and maybe going on a few bulk/cut cycles afterward. But my main goal now is to charge towards 240 and hope to god that's enough!

As for the metformin, I actually had bloodwork done recently that shows that I am close to no longer needing it. As my weight loss has been so rapid(in the grand scheme) I am no longer at risk for diabetes either. So I am guessing within the next 6-8 months I will probably be off the metformin.

Thanks for the support man, this is exactly what attracted me towards RVF. If you want to get into anything more personal, shoot me a PM and we can talk more.

[JayJuanGee]

(12-06-2016 09:27 PM)Ivanis Wrote:  

(12-06-2016 09:16 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

[edited out]

Thanks for the response,

I have a weight goal in mind, I originally kept it to myself, just as a personal test of self discipline, if I told no one but myself I could only hold myself responsible.

Each of us may go about goal setting in a slightly different way, and I agree that sometimes you do not necessarily need to share the details with others - even though some times it could be helpful to some guys in some circumstances to share his with others. On the other hand, I do think that it is good to have goals and goals that are achievable... at least the shorter term goals should be achievable. You can have other longer term goals that are aspirational, but may or may not be achievable because with the passage of time, you will have the liberty to reconsider and to calculate whether you would like to tweak your goals to the new circumstances (if any).

(12-06-2016 09:27 PM)Ivanis Wrote:  

My main goal is to stay at about 220lbs-240lbs, I am a rather large guy so that would put me at around 15% body fat. Staying about there and maybe going on a few bulk/cut cycles afterward. But my main goal now is to charge towards 240 and hope to god that's enough!

Yep, I see that ranges of goals can be good, and maybe even specifics.. and in the end, you are in charge of your own goals and to consider whether those goals are reasonable to your circumstances.

Actually, you may know yourself, but guys have a pretty decent ability to maintain and to build muscle in their teens and twenties, and surely some of the dynamics of building and maintaining muscle can become more challenging in the 30s, 40s and beyond.

We also know that guys carry their weight differently depending on their level of fitness, genetics, so you could have some ideas about whether there are certain areas that are more in need of work for yourself, including whether you believe that you need to improve your cardio - just in case a nuclear bomb gets dropped in your state, and then whether you think that you can run or walk 5 miles to save your life, etc etc.. or walk up the stairs carrying the groceries, or pick up a chick and carry her for half a mile in order to get laid or whatever task may be reasonably necessary in possible circumstances that you might face.

(12-06-2016 09:27 PM)Ivanis Wrote:  

As for the metformin, I actually had bloodwork done recently that shows that I am close to no longer needing it. As my weight loss has been so rapid(in the grand scheme) I am no longer at risk for diabetes either. So I am guessing within the next 6-8 months I will probably be off the metformin.

I personally believe that it is great if you can get off of most, if not all medicines because sometimes there can be misunderstood side-effects and dependencies and even misinformation. I like to, sometimes, mention the story about when I was about 44, my various doctors were consistently and highly recommending that I get on statin drugs, and my circumstances of blood pressure, cholesterol and some other indicators were such that I did not know enough about the situation in order to NOT follow doctors' recommendations. Therefore, I got onto statin drugs (and some other related drugs), researched the matter, continued to ask questions to the doctors on a regular basis, and within several months I began to get various suspicions that the medical industry is full of shit when it comes to statin drugs and some of the their dietary / lifestyle recommendations, and even though the individual people are tending to be "good" and "well-intentioned" people, they are pushing standards of care that are established by bad people (drug pushers, food misinformation etc).

Anyhow, I slowly began to wean myself off of statin drugs and other related drugs and to make a variety of dietary, sleep, exercise and lifestyle changes that I believe caused much better results than I would have experienced by continuing with the drugs and the "standards of care" course that my doctors were recommending... in the end, we gotta think preventative and think about staying out of hospitals as long as we can, unless we get sick or have some other kind of abnormal condition that cannot be made better through good diet, sleep and exercise.

(12-06-2016 09:27 PM)Ivanis Wrote:  

Thanks for the support man, this is exactly what attracted me towards RVF. If you want to get into anything more personal, shoot me a PM and we can talk more.

I am similar in terms of brainstorming with guys, and frequently we are going to be able to help each other in order that we can better help ourselves, because in the end, each of us has to decide how to proceed in various regards and to figure which goals are fitting and suitable for ourselves and our circumstances. So, yeah, sometimes just writing out a response can be helpful for me to better be able to identify what I think in light of the experiences of other guys, too....

By the way, sometimes, some of the guys (present company excluded, hahahahaha) are full of shit too, but sometimes it still can be helpful to consider and to figure out from them. hahahahaha

[Kinko]

I have tried many different diet plans including ketogenic. I think ketogenic is an extreme diet plan.

I liked eating all the proteins but looking back on it that was like protein overload. It seems people eat excessive protein especially in USA.

Eating huge amounts of fats also seemed strange and extreme. It was always a lot of work ingesting enough fats. And if a person has a sluggish liver which many people in USA do, all that fat wont do much good for them.

Also ketogenic diets are natural for Eskimos because of their extreme living conditions that naturally gave them few other options. Where I live there are millions of plants and foliage everywhere. It seems normal to include plants in your diet if they are abundant in your natural surroundings.

[Mr. Scumbag]

Anyone else experience your immune system weakening while low carb and lower calorie dieting?

I tend to get sick easier when I'm low-carb dieting, even while taking multivitamins and making sure to get enough vitamin C without going above 50 grams of carbs.

[JayJuanGee]

(12-06-2016 11:27 PM)Kinko Wrote:  

I have tried many different diet plans including ketogenic. I think ketogenic is an extreme diet plan.

I liked eating all the proteins but looking back on it that was like protein overload. It seems people eat excessive protein especially in USA.

You are probably doing something wrong if you are overloading on protein.

I think that the basic framework for ketogenic is low carb, high fat and "adequate" protein. If you are overloading or eating a lot of protein, then something would be wrong about that.

(12-06-2016 11:27 PM)Kinko Wrote:  

Eating huge amounts of fats also seemed strange and extreme. It was always a lot of work ingesting enough fats.

You might be correct that finding a lot of fat sources and concentrating on getting enough "good" fats can be a bit of a struggle, when a person is first learning about the benefits of a ketogenic diet.


Let's say for example, that a preferred macro ratio for a ketogenic diet is something like greater than 60% fat, 25% protein and less than 15% carbs.

If you are having trouble with that, then maybe you can tweak it a little bit and do 40% fat and 35% carbs, and you would probably still be doing better than many of the standard junky diets that are probably something like less than 20% fat, 25% protein and more than 60% carbs.

If you cannot meet the preferred standard, then you just gotta just attempt to do the best that you can, and you will likely still get some of the benefits without quite reaching the ketosis levels - you just gotta be careful not to misread it too much and eat too much proteins or eat bad fats or too many carbs (especially bad ones)

(12-06-2016 11:27 PM)Kinko Wrote:  

And if a person has a sluggish liver which many people in USA do, all that fat wont do much good for them.

I don't know from where you are getting this information about fats being bad for the liver. I suppose that you are suggesting that toxins are stored in fats and therefore with a ketogenic diet you would be eating more toxins than you would on a high carb diet, which you may be correct that your level of toxins may go up, but if your quality of calories is overall better, then it is likely that the quality of the foods is going to make you stronger too, to be able to have a stronger liver, no?

(12-06-2016 11:27 PM)Kinko Wrote:  

Also ketogenic diets are natural for Eskimos because of their extreme living conditions that naturally gave them few other options. Where I live there are millions of plants and foliage everywhere. It seems normal to include plants in your diet if they are abundant in your natural surroundings.

So, are you suggesting to eat more plants? What are you suggesting exactly? I think that you could still be doing o.k. by including plants in your diet as long as you stay away from processed foods and artificial fats ... Are you suggesting to avoid meat and just mostly eat plants because they are abundantly around you?

[JayJuanGee]

(12-07-2016 01:32 AM)Mr. Scumbag Wrote:  

Anyone else experience your immune system weakening while low carb and lower calorie dieting?

Who said anything about lower calorie? If you are emphasizing cutting calories then maybe you are conceptualizing something wrong?

(12-07-2016 01:32 AM)Mr. Scumbag Wrote:  

I tend to get sick easier when I'm low-carb dieting, even while taking multivitamins and making sure to get enough vitamin C without going above 50 grams of carbs.

This scurvy thing seems to be a kind of myth. What is 50 grams, something like 20% or less? Are you saying that you have to go below 50 grams of carbs otherwise you do not get a benefit? Probably, a lot of folks are eating in the 200 grams of carbs arena, so if you are eating in the 50 grams to 100 grams arena, you may be achieving a kind of modified ketogenic, no? Can' t you do something like that, if you feel that you need a bit higher on the carbs to "feel better" while still moving in the ketogenic direction (without quite getting there)?

I understand the concept that maybe going in the more extreme manner of "ketogenic" might not be so good for your own preferences and lifestyle, but are you suggesting that you have to go with a kind of less extreme version in order to not suffer some perceived side effects, because if that is the case, then maybe a less extreme version may be better for some guys, no?

[Ivanis]

(12-07-2016 02:11 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

This scurvy thing seems to be a kind of myth. What is 50 grams, something like 20% or less? Are you saying that you have to go below 50 grams of carbs otherwise you do not get a benefit? Probably, a lot of folks are eating in the 200 grams of carbs arena, so if you are eating in the 50 grams to 100 grams arena, you may be achieving a kind of modified ketogenic, no? Can' t you do something like that, if you feel that you need a bit higher on the carbs to "feel better" while still moving in the ketogenic direction (without quite getting there)?

I understand the concept that maybe going in the more extreme manner of "ketogenic" might not be so good for your own preferences and lifestyle, but are you suggesting that you have to go with a kind of less extreme version in order to not suffer some perceived side effects, because if that is the case, then maybe a less extreme version may be better for some guys, no?

I personally eat in the range of 15g-30g of carbs a day. But the thing is, while in ketosis I just don't get hungry, often times I need to remind myself to eat.

So personally it works well for me, but obviously you're mileage may very.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(12-07-2016 07:01 AM)Ivanis Wrote:  

I personally eat in the range of 15g-30g of carbs a day. But the thing is, while in ketosis I just don't get hungry, often times I need to remind myself to eat.

So personally it works well for me, but obviously you're mileage may very.

I try to stay around 50 grams in net carbs per day. I found out you can still eat a lot of veggies (leafy green) as the net carbs is pretty low. Six cups of a typical mixed salad is less than 11 grams of net carbs. Even less if you leave out carrots.

[Ivanis]

(12-06-2016 10:30 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(12-06-2016 09:27 PM)Ivanis Wrote:  

(12-06-2016 09:16 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

[edited out]

snip

Each of us may go about goal setting in a slightly different way, and I agree that sometimes you do not necessarily need to share the details with others - even though some times it could be helpful to some guys in some circumstances to share his with others. On the other hand, I do think that it is good to have goals and goals that are achievable... at least the shorter term goals should be achievable. You can have other longer term goals that are aspirational, but may or may not be achievable because with the passage of time, you will have the liberty to reconsider and to calculate whether you would like to tweak your goals to the new circumstances (if any).

Normally I don’t share my long term goal. I have shared my short term goals with all of my family to hold me to it. My short term goal is trying to drop weight in 10lb increments (eg. If I am at 272lbs, then I set my goal for 262). I also have PR goals in the gym and cardio goals as well, but whenever I lack motivation, I always look to the overall goal that I never shared (until now)

(12-06-2016 10:30 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

Yep, I see that ranges of goals can be good, and maybe even specifics.. and in the end, you are in charge of your own goals and to consider whether those goals are reasonable to your circumstances.

Actually, you may know yourself, but guys have a pretty decent ability to maintain and to build muscle in their teens and twenties, and surely some of the dynamics of building and maintaining muscle can become more challenging in the 30s, 40s and beyond.

We also know that guys carry their weight differently depending on their level of fitness, genetics, so you could have some ideas about whether there are certain areas that are more in need of work for yourself, including whether you believe that you need to improve your cardio - just in case a nuclear bomb gets dropped in your state, and then whether you think that you can run or walk 5 miles to save your life, etc etc.. or walk up the stairs carrying the groceries, or pick up a chick and carry her for half a mile in order to get laid or whatever task may be reasonably necessary in possible circumstances that you might face.

Well, actually, now reading it over it may have seen as though I intended on staying at 240lbs indefinitely, this is not the case. 240 is a goal for fat loss, my goal for muscle is closer to 260lbs. That is; if my body will allow me to pack on an extra 20lbs of muscle. I want to have as much muscle mass as possible; however I also want it to be sustainable. At some point, possibly when I am traveling, I am really interested in taking martial arts classes, and you need to have good cardio for that so I don’t want to have so much muscle that I get winded walking up the stairs! I happy medium of strength and cardio is what I am after.

(12-06-2016 10:30 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

I personally believe that it is great if you can get off of most, if not all medicines because sometimes there can be misunderstood side-effects and dependencies and even misinformation. I like to, sometimes, mention the story about when I was about 44, my various doctors were consistently and highly recommending that I get on statin drugs, and my circumstances of blood pressure, cholesterol and some other indicators were such that I did not know enough about the situation in order to NOT follow doctors' recommendations. Therefore, I got onto statin drugs (and some other related drugs), researched the matter, continued to ask questions to the doctors on a regular basis, and within several months I began to get various suspicions that the medical industry is full of shit when it comes to statin drugs and some of the their dietary / lifestyle recommendations, and even though the individual people are tending to be "good" and "well-intentioned" people, they are pushing standards of care that are established by bad people (drug pushers, food misinformation etc).

Anyhow, I slowly began to wean myself off of statin drugs and other related drugs and to make a variety of dietary, sleep, exercise and lifestyle changes that I believe caused much better results than I would have experienced by continuing with the drugs and the "standards of care" course that my doctors were recommending... in the end, we gotta think preventative and think about staying out of hospitals as long as we can, unless we get sick or have some other kind of abnormal condition that cannot be made better through good diet, sleep and exercise.

I completely understand, I want to be off all prescription meds and just take natural supplements that I can do with or without.

(12-06-2016 10:30 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

I am similar in terms of brainstorming with guys, and frequently we are going to be able to help each other in order that we can better help ourselves, because in the end, each of us has to decide how to proceed in various regards and to figure which goals are fitting and suitable for ourselves and our circumstances. So, yeah, sometimes just writing out a response can be helpful for me to better be able to identify what I think in light of the experiences of other guys, too....

By the way, sometimes, some of the guys (present company excluded, hahahahaha) are full of shit too, but sometimes it still can be helpful to consider and to figure out from them. hahahahaha

Exactly, for me, it is a compare and contrast everywhere, forum included. If you don’t agree, most things in life revolve around opinion anyway. I tend to like brainstorming like this as well, it is nice that someone like you is able to provide knowledge and wisdom to the next generation. I really appreciate the feedback too, that’s a +1 from me.

[GrapeApe]

(12-06-2016 06:23 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(12-06-2016 04:27 PM)GrapeApe Wrote:  

(12-06-2016 03:50 PM)Ivanis Wrote:  

(12-06-2016 03:44 PM)GrapeApe Wrote:  

Keto diet is great for losing weight fast but as soon as you go back to eating regular you'll pack it all back on. It's pretty much not a temporary thing. If you can go without carbs 6 out of 7 days a week then it may be for you and work well.

That is water weight. Normally as soon as I go into ketosis I drop around 5-8lbs and then gain the same back while eating carbs. All the rest is good weight lost.

No, I mean after several months and you're down 20-30lbs. If you go back to eating the way you did before, you'll pack it on twice as fast as you lost it.

You seem to be attempting to suggest that it is worse to even try than not because you will be in a worse position after you try, and that seems to be a kind of defeatist thinking.

RVF guys should sufficiently capable of attempting to set up a strategy that causes long term improvement rather than becoming a statistic, no?

No, no no, you misunderstand me. I'm trying to tell people that this isn't an: I'll do this for a few months to drop some pounds type of diet. It's a commitment and a lifestyle. If you're not dedicated to eating this way forever then it's probably not for you.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

Ivanis:

If you are taking supplements to help you with the ketosis and reduce your meds, check out pantethine (a form of B-5). I take 450 mg gel caps twice a day. Made a huge difference for me (improved energy, reduced LDL).

Link to study via the WSJ


edit: Don't confuse with Pantothenic Acid. Pantothenic Acid has no benefits when it comes to LDL & triglycerides than pantethine.

[JayJuanGee]

(12-07-2016 07:01 AM)Ivanis Wrote:  

(12-07-2016 02:11 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

This scurvy thing seems to be a kind of myth. What is 50 grams, something like 20% or less? Are you saying that you have to go below 50 grams of carbs otherwise you do not get a benefit? Probably, a lot of folks are eating in the 200 grams of carbs arena, so if you are eating in the 50 grams to 100 grams arena, you may be achieving a kind of modified ketogenic, no? Can' t you do something like that, if you feel that you need a bit higher on the carbs to "feel better" while still moving in the ketogenic direction (without quite getting there)?

I understand the concept that maybe going in the more extreme manner of "ketogenic" might not be so good for your own preferences and lifestyle, but are you suggesting that you have to go with a kind of less extreme version in order to not suffer some perceived side effects, because if that is the case, then maybe a less extreme version may be better for some guys, no?

I personally eat in the range of 15g-30g of carbs a day. But the thing is, while in ketosis I just don't get hungry, often times I need to remind myself to eat.

So personally it works well for me, but obviously you're mileage may very.

I guess that I was kind of taking issue with some of the points that Scumbag was raising, and he was suggesting that guys could have issues with carb levels below 50 grams per day, and really 50 grams of carbs per day seems quite sufficient, especially if a guy may be reducing from the 100 grams to 200 grams of carbs that frequently may be consumed in a regular diet.

By the way, Ivanis, you may have heard about some of the theories about plateauing with various diets, and surely sometimes, there may be a need to mix it up a bit and then maybe come back to where you were before. But, yeah, as you said, you likely need to assess the effects that changes are having on you personally. Your 15-30 grams do seem to be a bit on the lowside yet within ketogenic concepts, but it seems that you could probably go up to 50 grams from time to time without really having any kind of negative effect on your results, but sure that is for you to assess whether that kind of flexibility works for you.. lets say for example, you stay within 15 to 30 grams 5 days a week, but you go up to 50 grams two days a week, I doubt that those kinds of behaviors would have measurable negative effects, unless you are extremely insulin resistant.

[JayJuanGee]

(12-07-2016 09:30 AM)Ivanis Wrote:  

Normally I don’t share my long term goal. I have shared my short term goals with all of my family to hold me to it. My short term goal is trying to drop weight in 10lb increments (eg. If I am at 272lbs, then I set my goal for 262). I also have PR goals in the gym and cardio goals as well, but whenever I lack motivation, I always look to the overall goal that I never shared (until now)

Yes, I personally think that it is good to have a variety of goals that are not only tied to weight loss, but other performance indicators or even some other health markers - and some folks do measure their body fat, and I also indicated that several years ago I bought a bodyfat scale for $65. I have the Omron HBF-516, and there are some similar and economic models out there.

(12-07-2016 09:30 AM)Ivanis Wrote:  

Well, actually, now reading it over it may have seen as though I intended on staying at 240lbs indefinitely, this is not the case. 240 is a goal for fat loss, my goal for muscle is closer to 260lbs. That is; if my body will allow me to pack on an extra 20lbs of muscle. I want to have as much muscle mass as possible; however I also want it to be sustainable. At some point, possibly when I am traveling, I am really interested in taking martial arts classes, and you need to have good cardio for that so I don’t want to have so much muscle that I get winded walking up the stairs! I happy medium of strength and cardio is what I am after.

Yes... some of the specifics help to illustrate some of the points, that you might set some overall goals, and then after you reach one or more of them, then you start aiming for the next one, but then again, you might also decide to reassess at some point before reaching one goal or another and decide to change it up and for example to head towards putting on more muscle before losing fat.. Those are definitely discretionary points and not set in stone kinds of goals that you can assess and reassess, as needed.

(12-07-2016 09:30 AM)Ivanis Wrote:  

I completely understand, I want to be off all prescription meds and just take natural supplements that I can do with or without.

Agreed, the supplements that you decide to take will likely change over time too.

(12-07-2016 09:30 AM)Ivanis Wrote:  

Exactly, for me, it is a compare and contrast everywhere, forum included. If you don’t agree, most things in life revolve around opinion anyway. I tend to like brainstorming like this as well, it is nice that someone like you is able to provide knowledge and wisdom to the next generation. I really appreciate the feedback too, that’s a +1 from me.

Thanks for the plus 1. You know sometimes any of us could get caught up in kinds of battles of disagreements with other guys about what works and what doesn't and what has worked in his experience, so I doubt that it is as big of a deal if we disagree but instead attempt to engage in genuine conversations about our experiences and what we have tried (and maybe what we are contemplating trying).

For example, when I first began reading up about low carb, I was a bit confused about whether eggs were good or bad.. and this is kind of bullshit that I would be in my mid 40s and not know about whether eggs were good or bad.. but it is a kind of widespread misinformation campaign that is out there especially when food manufacturers are promoting egg beaters (which are not really eggs) and egg whites etc... so for example, sometimes guys come to differing conclusions about eggs, and my conclusion currently is to eat the whole egg and to eat as many of them as you want... and maybe even the more the better.. .. but in actual practice, my quantity of eggs really varies... so in any given week I may eat anywhere between 2 eggs and 30 eggs, just depending on what I am up to during that week, but I probably currently average around a dozen eggs per week.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(12-07-2016 02:27 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

For example, when I first began reading up about low carb, I was a bit confused about whether eggs were good or bad.. and this is kind of bullshit that I would be in my mid 40s and not know about whether eggs were good or bad.. but it is a kind of widespread misinformation campaign that is out there especially when food manufacturers are promoting egg beaters (which are not really eggs) and egg whites etc...

I am old enough to remember when the cholesterol in eggs was supposed to kill us all. Eggs and beef were the targets in the later '70s and early '80s.

[Unabashed]

I've done the Keto diet a few times and I can definitely say it does work. YMMV one the muscle gain portion. After acclimating to the drop in carbs, I never noticed a drop in strength. Here's some basic things to be aware of that I learned through Keto sites as well as personal experience:

1) Salt everything. You're going to initially shed a TON of water weight (somewhere along 8-10 pounds). Drink a lot of water and salt all of your food in order to help keep your electrolytes in balance (it's what your body craves).
2) Drink coffee. While adapting, you're going to feel like crap, aka the low carb flu. Blunt these effects with coffee.
3) In regards to fats, focus on both quantity and quality. Get a bunch of fats from many different, healthy sources. Nuts, avocados, butter, salmon, beef, etc. I've found this helps me adapt to the Keto diet faster.
4) Take it easy for the first week or two. You won't really notice too many ill effects until you really deplete your glycogen stores for the first time. That's when the low carb flu will kick in. Once that happens, I typically back off of any heavy training and mainly just take regular walks until the "flu" passes.

Hope this helps.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

I got the results of my blood work from last week:

LDL and HDL both dropped slightly from a year ago The new limit on LDL is 99, but I am at 135. My HDL is 55, so my ratio is still decent. Last year LDL was 138 and HDL was 59.

My liver though is under stress with the lab work result slightly abnormal. My triglycerides number also took a big jump from 72 to the mid 140s (high end of the normal range). The doctor thinks it could be the fact that I had just got over a virus. I suspect I need to cut back (or just go dry) on my drinking. I am too old for that daily glass of scotch at the end of the day. So as of today, I am on the completely dry bandwagon, whilst waiting for the results of a retest.

My LDL and HDL numbers indicate that the bulletproof coffee and high saturated fat diet has had no real effect on my cholesterol levels. Did it have an effect on my triglyceride levels? Maybe... I'll see what happens with my liver enzyme levels first though. I get re-tested in a month.

[JayJuanGee]

(12-15-2016 01:55 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  

I got the results of my blood work from last week:

LDL and HDL both dropped slightly from a year ago The new limit on LDL is 99, but I am at 135. My HDL is 55, so my ratio is still decent. Last year LDL was 138 and HDL was 59.

My liver though is under stress with the lab work result slightly abnormal. My triglycerides number also took a big jump from 72 to the mid 140s (high end of the normal range). The doctor thinks it could be the fact that I had just got over a virus. I suspect I need to cut back (or just go dry) on my drinking. I am too old for that daily glass of scotch at the end of the day. So as of today, I am on the completely dry bandwagon, whilst waiting for the results of a retest.

My LDL and HDL numbers indicate that the bulletproof coffee and high saturated fat diet has had no real effect on my cholesterol levels. Did it have an effect on my triglyceride levels? Maybe... I'll see what happens with my liver enzyme levels first though. I get re-tested in a month.

I think that you are misfocused if you think that the LDL number really means anything significant.

I understand that standards of care and all that bullshit cares about LDL, but unless your LDL is way out of wack, like above 300 or possibly 400, I wouldnt give it too much concern.

Your HDL looks really good (above 40 is good and 59 is even better), but I agree your triglicerides are way too high...

Below 100 for triglicerides is o.k., but even below 80 would be better... .

From my understanding Trigliceride production is related to excess glucose in the blood, so either you are getting it from the drinking or maybe you could also be eating too much protein and not eating enough fat (possibly?)

It is possible that your liver has become too sensitive, so alchohol and fruits (fructose) are processed through the liver... and medications too, so there could be some medications that are giving that negative liver side effect (which is more important if your liver is more sensitive, for whatever reason over the years or possibly a genetic component that makes it more sensitive in your case?)

Edit: By the way, I recall that you seemed to have been eating pretty clean, so I cannot recall what you were saying about the kinds of fats that you were eating, or your eating grains or some of the other supposedly "healthy" carbs.

Regarding the bulletproof coffee, that should not have any negative effect as long as you are not putting anything weird in it... so butter is o.k. coconut oil is o.k., heavy whipping cream is o.k..... If you are putting low fat or even regular milk that may not be too good... and I am kind of o.k. with half and half if there is no heavy whipping cream available. What else would you be adding to your version of bulletproof coffee?

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(12-15-2016 02:41 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

Your HDL looks really good (above 40 is good and 59 is even better), but I agree your triglicerides are way too high...

Below 100 for triglicerides is o.k., but even below 80 would be better... .

What else would you be adding to your version of bulletproof coffee?

I have been good with my sugar and carb intake. Scotch / whiskey is zero in carbs. Now I had just gotten over an illness and I had been taking stuff (ie. acetaminophen) that can affect liver function (per my Doctor). So this could be a blip or a warning that I need to pretty much kill the alcohol consumption... which I am going to do.

My coffee is just heavy cream, coconut oil, and sometimes a couple drops of real vanilla extract.

I have no other problems. Except for the 5 days I had Norovirus like symptoms I have been well. Still gradually losing fat (based on my belly fat dissipating).

Weight is falling slowly as I am still lifting. I was supposed to have some 75 lbs dumbbells delivered (65 lbs got too light for some of the exercises I do). Somehow, the UPS guy didn't bother ringing the bell. I don't this guy want to haul them to my door.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

I have been noticing an uptick in articles slamming keto diets. Seems like a lot of "health professionals" are freaked out by keto. This is the latest one I have come across:

http://www.healthnpost.com/?p=5853#comment-1844

Quote:

For starters, most of the lost weight is water weight, according to Lisa Cimperman, R.D.N., a clinical dietitian at University Hospitals Case Medical Center in Cleveland, Ohio, and a spokesperson for the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.

“Once your body enters ketosis, you also begin to lose muscle, become extremely fatigued, and eventually enter starvation mode. Then it actually becomes even harder to lose weight,” Cimperman told Healthline.

Mawer said he doesn’t believe the keto diet causes muscle loss. He did caution it’s not optimal for someone trying to gain muscle.

Other experts interviewed by Healthline had stronger words of caution.

“Keto diets should only be used under clinical supervision and only for brief periods,” Francine Blinten, R.D., a certified clinical nutritionist and public health consultant in Old Greenwich, Connecticut, told Healthline. “They have worked successfully on some cancer patients in conjunction with chemotherapy to shrink tumors and to reduce seizures among people suffering from epilepsy.”

[rainy]

I don't exactly shoot for keto but I do go low carb when needing to cut. Doing it right now. I'll let you know a secret staple of my low carb diet.

Shopska. Picked it up when overseas in Bulgaria.



Ingredients in Bulgaria are feta cheese, olive oil, roasted pepper, tomatoes, onions and cucumber. I personally think onion is one of the most revolting foods on this planet so I replace with avocado(healthy fat, low carb, high fiber) and rarely roast the peppers as....who has time for that?

Extremely low carb and filling. Have it at least once a day either with meat at dinner or as my lunch. Chop up organic tomatoes, avocados, cucumber and green pepper, generous amount of olive oil poured on top, sprinkle feta cheese, done.

Don't buy the shit feta from your local grocer though. Find a store which offers it in Eastern/Southern Euro style blocks, like this.



Feta, not from the states but imported from Europe, particularly Bulgaria, Greece or France is also a quality probiotic.

Aside from that, my first meal of the day is a smoothie, spinach, half an avocado, spoonful of peanut butter and protein powder, with ice. Then rotate between meats, fish, chicken, beef, etc, with various veggies on the side. Sometimes I'll do a keto style burger, beef/turkey, runny eggs on top, bacon, then avocado and tomatoes on the side. Another smoothie before I go to bed.

Carbs end up being anywhere between 20-50 per day.

Zero processed food. No bread. No pasta. Never any cereal or granola or anything like that. No soda, no juice, when I drink it's liquor, straight. Body adapts to it fairly quickly.

[MOVSM]

(01-23-2017 07:33 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  

I have been noticing an uptick in articles slamming keto diets. Seems like a lot of "health professionals" are freaked out by keto. This is the latest one I have come across:

http://www.healthnpost.com/?p=5853#comment-1844

Quote:

For starters, most of the lost weight is water weight, according to Lisa Cimperman, R.D.N., a clinical dietitian at University Hospitals Case Medical Center in Cleveland, Ohio, and a spokesperson for the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.

“Once your body enters ketosis, you also begin to lose muscle, become extremely fatigued, and eventually enter starvation mode. Then it actually becomes even harder to lose weight,” Cimperman told Healthline.

Mawer said he doesn’t believe the keto diet causes muscle loss. He did caution it’s not optimal for someone trying to gain muscle.

Other experts interviewed by Healthline had stronger words of caution.

“Keto diets should only be used under clinical supervision and only for brief periods,” Francine Blinten, R.D., a certified clinical nutritionist and public health consultant in Old Greenwich, Connecticut, told Healthline. “They have worked successfully on some cancer patients in conjunction with chemotherapy to shrink tumors and to reduce seizures among people suffering from epilepsy.”

All of these scare-mongering claims are easily disproved--there are countless people who live on this diet. I personally am on some sort of low carb diet for over 4 years, I adjust according to my needs, including powerlifting and building muscle. Full quarter of Swedes are on low carb diet. Low carb high fat (LCHF) diet is recommended by their surgeon general.
Then there is all kinds of research on the matter by Drs. Atkins, Peter Attia, Volek and Phiney, and books published by them and Gary Taubes and Jimmy Moore.

The trouble with doctors is that they are taught current dietary guidelines, and despite knowing the physiological processes, continue to regurgitate the accepted mantra. Sometimes it is due to risk of malpractice lawsuits, sometimes due to sugar lobby, and sometimes, as in this case, blithering idiocy.

I highly recommend reading the above authors. For powerlifting I recommend Leangains.
Then there is Mongolia, Masai, Siberian pastoralists, northern nomads (Eskimo etc.) for whom LCHF diet was the norm for centuries.


Edit: Forgot--eating meat today is a politically incorrect act. This is the greatest opposition to these diets. It is further effort at emasculation of men, which must go on at all costs. Hence all SJW, PETA, feminazis etc. will oppose these attempts at eating healthy.

[Grenblin]

I can vouch for the fact that you only lose muscle if you diet and don't train. But same goes for not training and not dieting at all.
I've gone on Keto since May of last year + lifting.
Dropped 70lbs so far and I can do same amount of bench presses with 135lbs that I could with an empty 45lbs bar at the beginning of my journey.
Both the size of my muscles and my strength have been going up steadily.
Now I'm working on my endurance.

[Jaihoo]

I peaked out on the scale right after the new years...280 lbs, disgusting. Started strict keto 7 days ago, 12+ lbs down. Feeling much better. For keto advice, I exclusively check Primal Edge Health youtube, and track my food via Cronometer.

Ditched the junk food completely. I'm going old school with food, my family makes olive oil from the couple of olive trees they have, so now I'm using that daily, also grandma protip - teaspoon of olive oil every morning, on empty stomach.

I just hope I don't crash back to carbs lol.

[MOVSM]

(02-01-2017 03:28 PM)Jaihoo Wrote:  

I peaked out on the scale right after the new years...280 lbs, disgusting. Started strict keto 7 days ago, 12+ lbs down. Feeling much better. For keto advice, I exclusively check Primal Edge Health youtube, and track my food via Cronometer.

Ditched the junk food completely. I'm going old school with food, my family makes olive oil from the couple of olive trees they have, so now I'm using that daily, also grandma protip - teaspoon of olive oil every morning, on empty stomach.

I just hope I don't crash back to carbs lol.

1st two weeks are horrible, persevere. 1st month is bad. After that it gets better. Except for the holidays, you will have relapses. Remember, sugar is a drug more powerful than cocaine.

[samsamsam]

Is it ok to have a carb day on Keto?

I still need a day to enjoy the foods I like. Trust me I like bacon and meat and cheese like there is no tomorrow.

But I like having my one day to go to town on junk.

Any of you do keto 5 to 6 days a week, with a day for whatever?

Or does that destroy all your gains from keto?

JJG mentioned triglycerides were a result of too much glucose. I think that is probably what messes with my blood also. But I like to eat, I enjoy it. Hopefully just narrowing it to one or two days a week of carbs would still see an improvement in health and bloodwork?

Jaihoo if you really want to drop weight fast check out the RFL thread. thread-48982.html