[TravelerKai]

(11-09-2017 10:00 PM)Arado Wrote:  

Unless oil gets back to above 80$/barrel, Saudi is going to see a massive drop in its influence in the next decade. The idea that they can diversify away from oil or that their population will accept a modern, less extreme version of Islam is a pipe dream. Saudi people have neither the IQ nor the work ethnic to have high value added industries. I don't understand what MBS's long term goal is.

80 a barrel? Dude Saudi Arabia is NOT Canada. Try any amount over 30 dollars a barrel. OPEC does not need 80 dollars a barrel to stay profitable. When The US/world allowed more or less, oil to rise that high, we more or less gave Saudi Arabia a gift probably in the trillions.

I don't think many of you realize just how much money they have.

Cars are not going anywhere in 10 years either. China is going car crazy and even if America dropped 10% on automobile use, China would fill in that demand easily.

Also, to say a less extreme Islamic regime is impossible is forgetting history. The Abbasid Dynasty did all of this and Muhammad was dead about 100 years prior to that. The Shia were their enemies and they see them as a death cult that does not practice the real Islam. Nomadbrah already pointed to this.

Here is a map of their old empire. Subtract out Israel.



Whether or not they do it European Union style or the old way with tanks and guns (or a mixture of both), who could actually stop them from smacking the rest of the region or pulling them into their system. The framework already existed. It's called OPEC.

We will see how far they get, but insulting their IQ levels is a dishonest analysis and racist drivel. To have gotten this far, they are not dummies. Their ancestors certainly were not. Powers rise and fall, come and go. They have the money and resources to pull it off for certain. Don't forget Iraq had the 4th largest military in the world at one point. The Saudis could easily top that if they wanted to.

[Going strong]

(11-10-2017 08:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Don't forget Iraq had the 4th largest military in the world at one point. The Saudis could easily top that if they wanted to.

"the 4th largest military in the world", that was undone in one day by a mere division of French soldiers (backed by the US 82nd Airborne Division), suffering only two casualties on their victorious way to Baghdad ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_Daguet

As to the Saudis, what kind or army could they get, without citizen soldiers? Mercenaries, who would inevitably turn on them at some point, or take control of the empire, through their descendants, end-of-Rome style?

I mean, if you can find 10000 Saudi citizens ready to ditch their Ferraris, Filipina house-slaves and Ukrainian sex slaves, to go fight in the desert, it'd be a maximum.

[Beirut]

Saudi Arabia already has the THIRD largest military budget.

It spends more than Russia lol...

[Arado]

(11-10-2017 08:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(11-09-2017 10:00 PM)Arado Wrote:  

Unless oil gets back to above 80$/barrel, Saudi is going to see a massive drop in its influence in the next decade. The idea that they can diversify away from oil or that their population will accept a modern, less extreme version of Islam is a pipe dream. Saudi people have neither the IQ nor the work ethnic to have high value added industries. I don't understand what MBS's long term goal is.

80 a barrel? Dude Saudi Arabia is NOT Canada. Try any amount over 30 dollars a barrel. OPEC does not need 80 dollars a barrel to stay profitable. When The US/world allowed more or less, oil to rise that high, we more or less gave Saudi Arabia a gift probably in the trillions.

I don't think many of you realize just how much money they have.

Cars are not going anywhere in 10 years either. China is going car crazy and even if America dropped 10% on automobile use, China would fill in that demand easily.

Also, to say a less extreme Islamic regime is impossible is forgetting history. The Abbasid Dynasty did all of this and Muhammad was dead about 100 years prior to that. The Shia were their enemies and they see them as a death cult that does not practice the real Islam. Nomadbrah already pointed to this.

Here is a map of their old empire. Subtract out Israel.



Whether or not they do it European Union style or the old way with tanks and guns (or a mixture of both), who could actually stop them from smacking the rest of the region or pulling them into their system. The framework already existed. It's called OPEC.

We will see how far they get, but insulting their IQ levels is a dishonest analysis and racist drivel. To have gotten this far, they are not dummies. Their ancestors certainly were not. Powers rise and fall, come and go. They have the money and resources to pull it off for certain. Don't forget Iraq had the 4th largest military in the world at one point. The Saudis could easily top that if they wanted to.

You do realize that Saudi Arabia's budget balance is currently at 70$ a barrel, right?

http://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-ara...en-2017-11

You also realize that they have a growing population base and ongoing proxy wars throughout the Middle East? They are trying to cut their budget but the more subsidies they cut, the more their entitled population is going to get pissed off at the government.

Every year that oil is under their breakeven level they have to dip into their reserves. I admit that their reserves are huge and that can go on for a few more years but eventually people will start to look for an exit plan - if there looks to be no alternative, then the markets are going to flee Saudi assets and they will have to further deplete their reserves to maintain the fixed exchange rate.

Even now, with all the craziness in the Middle East and saber rattling, oil is not even above 60$. Imagine what will happen in 2020 once electric cars go mainstream (check the Elon Musk thread if you want to have that argument). I don't see any future for them other than a return to being desert herders, perhaps preceded by a massive war to kill off the excess population above their malthusian limit.

Also, I would be very wary of conflating Iran and Saudi Arabia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate
The Abbasid Dynasty was based in Baghdad and relied on Iranians to run their empire.

Quote:

The Abbasid period was marked by reliance on Persian bureaucrats (notably the Barmakid family) to govern the territories conquered by Arab Muslims as well as an increasing inclusion of non-Arab Muslims in the ummah. Persianate customs were broadly adopted by the ruling elite, and they started supporting artists and scholars.

The face that Persians 1,000 years ago helped build a massive empire based in Iraq is not evidence of SAUDI talent for international competitiveness nor is it evidence that the Saudi people themselves are ready to become interfaith hippies and religious moderates. This type of change requires a generation or two.

Now, on the topic of their workforce, let's take a look at the quality of students that Saudi is producing. Check out this OECD study:

(http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/d...B4B5DD2446)

Saudi Arabia, despite its massive wealth, still ranks in the bottom on international standardized tests. Good luck diversifying - they will need a massive drop in wages to make them competitive if all they can offer is low skilled labor.

Good luck instilling a work ethnic too - Saudis themselves

(http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/20/news/sau...index.html)

admit that most of them don't even work for a living.

Quote:

It was a moment of candor in a rare public debate about the future of Saudi Arabia's economy -- and its workers.
According to civil service minister Khaled Alaraj, many Saudi government employees are really only working for an hour each day.
"[The amount worked] doesn't even exceed an hour -- and that's based on studies," he said.
Alaraj's comments came during a televised roundtable late on Wednesday about how to reform the kingdom's economy so that it is better equipped to weather periods of low oil prices.
Analysts say changes targeting the country's public sector will be crucial.
Almost 70% of employed Saudi nationals -- more than 3 million -- hold jobs in the public sector, according to McKinsey.

So if you want to invest in Saudi Arabia, be my guest. I think the U.S. should do all it can to isolate themselves from this hideous country and let the pampered (shitting on Instagram whores) royals enjoy their game of thrones power maneuvers.

[TravelerKai]

(11-10-2017 01:44 PM)Arado Wrote:  

(11-10-2017 08:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(11-09-2017 10:00 PM)Arado Wrote:  

Unless oil gets back to above 80$/barrel, Saudi is going to see a massive drop in its influence in the next decade. The idea that they can diversify away from oil or that their population will accept a modern, less extreme version of Islam is a pipe dream. Saudi people have neither the IQ nor the work ethnic to have high value added industries. I don't understand what MBS's long term goal is.

80 a barrel? Dude Saudi Arabia is NOT Canada. Try any amount over 30 dollars a barrel. OPEC does not need 80 dollars a barrel to stay profitable. When The US/world allowed more or less, oil to rise that high, we more or less gave Saudi Arabia a gift probably in the trillions.

I don't think many of you realize just how much money they have.

Cars are not going anywhere in 10 years either. China is going car crazy and even if America dropped 10% on automobile use, China would fill in that demand easily.

Also, to say a less extreme Islamic regime is impossible is forgetting history. The Abbasid Dynasty did all of this and Muhammad was dead about 100 years prior to that. The Shia were their enemies and they see them as a death cult that does not practice the real Islam. Nomadbrah already pointed to this.

Here is a map of their old empire. Subtract out Israel.



Whether or not they do it European Union style or the old way with tanks and guns (or a mixture of both), who could actually stop them from smacking the rest of the region or pulling them into their system. The framework already existed. It's called OPEC.

We will see how far they get, but insulting their IQ levels is a dishonest analysis and racist drivel. To have gotten this far, they are not dummies. Their ancestors certainly were not. Powers rise and fall, come and go. They have the money and resources to pull it off for certain. Don't forget Iraq had the 4th largest military in the world at one point. The Saudis could easily top that if they wanted to.

You do realize that Saudi Arabia's budget balance is currently at 70$ a barrel, right?

http://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-ara...en-2017-11

You also realize that they have a growing population base and ongoing proxy wars throughout the Middle East? They are trying to cut their budget but the more subsidies they cut, the more their entitled population is going to get pissed off at the government.

Every year that oil is under their breakeven level they have to dip into their reserves. I admit that their reserves are huge and that can go on for a few more years but eventually people will start to look for an exit plan - if there looks to be no alternative, then the markets are going to flee Saudi assets and they will have to further deplete their reserves to maintain the fixed exchange rate.

Even now, with all the craziness in the Middle East and saber rattling, oil is not even above 60$. Imagine what will happen in 2020 once electric cars go mainstream (check the Elon Musk thread if you want to have that argument). I don't see any future for them other than a return to being desert herders, perhaps preceded by a massive war to kill off the excess population above their malthusian limit.

Also, I would be very wary of conflating Iran and Saudi Arabia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate
The Abbasid Dynasty was based in Baghdad and relied on Iranians to run their empire.

Quote:

The Abbasid period was marked by reliance on Persian bureaucrats (notably the Barmakid family) to govern the territories conquered by Arab Muslims as well as an increasing inclusion of non-Arab Muslims in the ummah. Persianate customs were broadly adopted by the ruling elite, and they started supporting artists and scholars.

The face that Persians 1,000 years ago helped build a massive empire based in Iraq is not evidence of SAUDI talent for international competitiveness nor is it evidence that the Saudi people themselves are ready to become interfaith hippies and religious moderates. This type of change requires a generation or two.

Now, on the topic of their workforce, let's take a look at the quality of students that Saudi is producing. Check out this OECD study:

(http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/d...B4B5DD2446)

Saudi Arabia, despite its massive wealth, still ranks in the bottom on international standardized tests. Good luck diversifying - they will need a massive drop in wages to make them competitive if all they can offer is low skilled labor.

Good luck instilling a work ethnic too - Saudis themselves

(http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/20/news/sau...index.html)

admit that most of them don't even work for a living.

Quote:

It was a moment of candor in a rare public debate about the future of Saudi Arabia's economy -- and its workers.
According to civil service minister Khaled Alaraj, many Saudi government employees are really only working for an hour each day.
"[The amount worked] doesn't even exceed an hour -- and that's based on studies," he said.
Alaraj's comments came during a televised roundtable late on Wednesday about how to reform the kingdom's economy so that it is better equipped to weather periods of low oil prices.
Analysts say changes targeting the country's public sector will be crucial.
Almost 70% of employed Saudi nationals -- more than 3 million -- hold jobs in the public sector, according to McKinsey.

So if you want to invest in Saudi Arabia, be my guest. I think the U.S. should do all it can to isolate themselves from this hideous country and let the pampered (shitting on Instagram whores) royals enjoy their game of thrones power maneuvers.

As much as I hate doing this, the (((IMF))) is a poor source of authority on knowing what the Saudis need to "break even" on a barrel of oil.

Light sweet crude (from under a sandy desert) is so easy to pull up out of the ground a monkey could do it. Canada's oil sands are vastly more expensive to pull up and require more processing for refinement.

If the Saudi's themselves tell you that they need 70 bucks a barrel to break even, they are lying to you too. That's probably the profit point they want, not what they could do it with at a minimum. No one in the oil business that knows upstream and E&P would buy that shit number either. That's just 10 dollars less than what the Canadians have to get for a barrel more or less. Bullshit.

The rest of your points are good though. Still does not mean that it cannot be turned around over a longer period of time. Something the West fucks up on, is a fundamental lack of long term strategic planning. Asians, more specifically the Japanese, tend to use 20 year models, instead of the standard 5 year models lots of American companies and organizations use. Our country does not plan much pass 2 years let alone 5.

[TravelerKai]

(11-10-2017 11:10 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(11-10-2017 08:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Don't forget Iraq had the 4th largest military in the world at one point. The Saudis could easily top that if they wanted to.

"the 4th largest military in the world", that was undone in one day by a mere division of French soldiers (backed by the US 82nd Airborne Division), suffering only two casualties on their victorious way to Baghdad ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_Daguet

As to the Saudis, what kind or army could they get, without citizen soldiers? Mercenaries, who would inevitably turn on them at some point, or take control of the empire, through their descendants, end-of-Rome style?

I mean, if you can find 10000 Saudi citizens ready to ditch their Ferraris, Filipina house-slaves and Ukrainian sex slaves, to go fight in the desert, it'd be a maximum.

Drone warfare is the future. Mechanized Infantry -> Armed Drones. We have gone over this several times before on this forum. You don't need men if quiet armed gyro copters can dip into enemy territory un-noticed and start shooting people. All the "advanced" nations have shitty birthrates, so they will follow America and buy more of those.

Mercenaries still work too. You think they would have a hard time finding soldiers of fortune in any of those areas in the green map? I don't think so.

They are not going to try and be America. They don't have the demographics for that. They can still be a new kind of Sparta based on slave labor and a spoiled rotten citizenry and still be a power within their own right.

[Arado]

(11-10-2017 02:37 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

As much as I hate doing this, the (((IMF))) is a poor source of authority on knowing what the Saudis need to "break even" on a barrel of oil.

Light sweet crude (from under a sandy desert) is so easy to pull up out of the ground a monkey could do it. Canada's oil sands are vastly more expensive to pull up and require more processing for refinement.

If the Saudi's themselves tell you that they need 70 bucks a barrel to break even, they are lying to you too. That's probably the profit point they want, not what they could do it with at a minimum. No one in the oil business that knows upstream and E&P would buy that shit number either. That's just 10 dollars less than what the Canadians have to get for a barrel more or less. Bullshit.

The rest of your points are good though. Still does not mean that it cannot be turned around over a longer period of time. Something the West fucks up on, is a fundamental lack of long term strategic planning. Asians, more specifically the Japanese, tend to use 20 year models, instead of the standard 5 year models lots of American companies and organizations use. Our country does not plan much pass 2 years let alone 5.

The 70 bucks a barrel is the Saudi federal budget break even price, not the oil company break even price, sorry for not being clear earlier. Even if oil was at 15$ a barrel, because, as you correctly noted, light sweet crude is easy to drill, oil companies drilling in Saudi will still make a profit at that price.

The problem comes in on the federal budget level. The profits from selling oil go to the federal budget because taxes are very low and spending is high. The reason they need high oil prices is not for the oil companies themselves but rather to subsidize the government, and by extension, the entire society.

Who knows, they may pull it off. I agree with you that it is at least a credit to them that they are thinking long term unlike leaders in the West.

However, the structural challenges are just too great. There are no countries out there with such a poorly educated workforce that have been able to develop innovative and competitive export industries without relying on dirt cheap labor. Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, and Bahrain are often pointed to as Middle East success stories but they are largely dependent on fuel exports and all have resource windfalls that are spread over very small populations. Also, often over half of the population is comprised of expats that do the actual work. However, Saudi is an order of magnitude larger, with 27 million people and with 27% of their population under the age of 14 (compared to 18% in the U.S.) I just don't see how the math will work out.

[TravelerKai]

(11-10-2017 03:32 PM)Arado Wrote:  

(11-10-2017 02:37 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

As much as I hate doing this, the (((IMF))) is a poor source of authority on knowing what the Saudis need to "break even" on a barrel of oil.

Light sweet crude (from under a sandy desert) is so easy to pull up out of the ground a monkey could do it. Canada's oil sands are vastly more expensive to pull up and require more processing for refinement.

If the Saudi's themselves tell you that they need 70 bucks a barrel to break even, they are lying to you too. That's probably the profit point they want, not what they could do it with at a minimum. No one in the oil business that knows upstream and E&P would buy that shit number either. That's just 10 dollars less than what the Canadians have to get for a barrel more or less. Bullshit.

The rest of your points are good though. Still does not mean that it cannot be turned around over a longer period of time. Something the West fucks up on, is a fundamental lack of long term strategic planning. Asians, more specifically the Japanese, tend to use 20 year models, instead of the standard 5 year models lots of American companies and organizations use. Our country does not plan much pass 2 years let alone 5.

The 70 bucks a barrel is the Saudi federal budget break even price, not the oil company break even price, sorry for not being clear earlier. Even if oil was at 15$ a barrel, because, as you correctly noted, light sweet crude is easy to drill, oil companies drilling in Saudi will still make a profit at that price.

The problem comes in on the federal budget level. The profits from selling oil go to the federal budget because taxes are very low and spending is high. The reason they need high oil prices is not for the oil companies themselves but rather to subsidize the government, and by extension, the entire society.

Who knows, they may pull it off. I agree with you that it is at least a credit to them that they are thinking long term unlike leaders in the West.

However, the structural challenges are just too great. There are no countries out there with such a poorly educated workforce that have been able to develop innovative and competitive export industries without relying on dirt cheap labor. Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, and Bahrain are often pointed to as Middle East success stories but they are largely dependent on fuel exports and all have resource windfalls that are spread over very small populations. Also, often over half of the population is comprised of expats that do the actual work. However, Saudi is an order of magnitude larger, with 27 million people and with 27% of their population under the age of 14 (compared to 18% in the U.S.) I just don't see how the math will work out.

Yep at this current state, the math is not in their favor at all. By the new king trimming the fat off and jailing the leeches, he may have a shot at correcting the path. While they do not have China's vast population to rebound quickly, they may have to forge some new alliances or expand their citizenship/borders somehow. Demographics are still destiny...

[Gmac]

Just to add to what TK was saying (skip to 12:35):

[Horus]

(11-10-2017 08:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

We will see how far they get, but insulting their IQ levels is a dishonest analysis and racist drivel.

He mentioned IQ and work ethic. I challenge you to live and work in a GCC country and leave with the belief that the indigenous population is capable of diversifying beyond a petro based economy. They are coddled, uneducated retards and no reform can change that in the short term.

[Thomas Jackson]

(11-11-2017 01:48 PM)Horus Wrote:  

(11-10-2017 08:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

We will see how far they get, but insulting their IQ levels is a dishonest analysis and racist drivel.

He mentioned IQ and work ethic. I challenge you to live and work in a GCC country and leave with the belief that the indigenous population is capable of diversifying beyond a petro based economy. They are coddled, uneducated retards and no reform can change that in the short term.

Most estimates put them in the 85-90 range. And everyone knows the famous Arab work ethic. Inshallah.

[CynicalContrarian]

Quite the 'rabbit hole' to be found on Twitter under the - #QAnon hashtag.

[TravelerKai]

(11-11-2017 01:48 PM)Horus Wrote:  

(11-10-2017 08:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

We will see how far they get, but insulting their IQ levels is a dishonest analysis and racist drivel.

He mentioned IQ and work ethic. I challenge you to live and work in a GCC country and leave with the belief that the indigenous population is capable of diversifying beyond a petro based economy. They are coddled, uneducated retards and no reform can change that in the short term.

Without doxxing myself I have project managed two very expensive IT projects for Saudi businesses and government. I am very well aware of their work ethic, most of which is religious culture junk more so than an inability to work.

I also brought up long term. Typical westerners like yourself can only think of short term.

I bet the new king IQ is well over 130 and probably alot higher than most of this forum. If that is the case I am quite certain he has plans for that. It would be a mistake to underestimate him.

Also many Saudis are very educated and get education abroad. They are not some backwater fools.

Look at the video gmac linked. See how fucking fast they rose in the past? It's foolish to think that will not be possible even today.

[Beirut]

(11-12-2017 02:28 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

I bet the new king IQ is well over 130 and probably alot higher than most of this forum.

How? He has an inferiority complex and has failed in everything he has put his country through.

Continued support for jihadists against Assad = failure.

Launch of a war against yemen = colossal failure. 3rd largest military budget against poorest country in the region. Threw the houthis in Irans lap.

Theres even talk now that the big settlement will see saudi land given to jordan to resettle palestinians.

Hell even our 82 year old president just epically outchessed him in the whole Hariri debacle.

He tries to bully and buy his way out of stuff, does not have any patience or vision or long term strategic planning. The iranians are picking him apart.

Only thing hes managed is power his way inside SA and thats because certain circles in the US (Kushner and co,) see his idiocy and blind ambition as very helpful to their cause.


Im not underestimating the threat he poses because hes a bull in a china shop, and its precisely his lack of longterm strategic vision that makes him so dangerous. But a genius he is not. Hes just someone who can bring down a lot of people with him.

[Beirut]

And the whole dispute with Qatar was a disaster as well

[911]

Agree, Beirut. MBS looks like someone with that combination of ruthless ambition and lack of principles that makes him the right profile for the globalists, he will execute the plans they have for Arabia. He's somewhat similar to Saddam.

There are a few smart sheiks in the Gulf, like the rulers of Dubai. Dubai is the first Arab state to exploit the West and the rest of the world, something no Arab state has done in centuries. They're one of the poorer Gulf statelets (relative to Koweit, KSA etc) yet they've managed to carve for themselves a mini-empire out of great vision and proper execution.

Good report on the MSB putsch by Pepe Escobar:

Quote:

A top Middle East business/investment source who has been doing deals for decades with the opaque House of Saud offers much-needed perspective: “This is more serious than it appears. The arrest of the two sons of previous King Abdullah, Princes Miteb and Turki, was a fatal mistake. This now endangers the King himself. It was only the regard for the King that protected MBS. There are many left in the army against MBS and they are enraged at the arrest of their commanders.”

To say the Saudi Arabian Army is in uproar is an understatement. “He’d have to arrest the whole army before he could feel secure.”

...

Before the purge, the House of Saud’s incessant spin centered on a $500 billion zone straddling Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt, on the Red Sea coast, a sort of Dubai replica to be theoretically completed by 2025, powered by wind and solar energy, and financed by its sovereign wealth fund and proceeds from the Aramco IPO.

In parallel, MBS pulled another rabbit from his hat swearing the future of Saudi Arabia is a matter of “simply reverting to what we followed – a moderate Islam open to the world and all religions.”

In a nutshell: a state that happens to be the private property of a royal family inimical to all principles of freedom of expression and religion, as well as the ideological matrix of all forms of Salafi-jihadism simply cannot metastasize into a “moderate” state just because MBS says so.

Meanwhile, a pile-up of purges, coups and countercoups shall be the norm.

http://www.atimes.com/article/inside-sto...ng-knives/

[DarkTriad]

BREAKING! Wikileaks has released hidden audio from a frank discussion between Trump and King Faud during his first visit to Saudi in May, and it explains a lot of what is happening now.

[DamienCasanova]

This is a major power shift going on here, maybe this is why the Bushes have been so pissed off about Trump lately.

Saudi "Deep State" Prince Bandar Among Those Arrested In Purge

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-10...rge-report



According to a new report by Middle East Eye, Prince Bandar bin Sultan - Saudi Arabia's most famous arms dealer, longtime former ambassador to the US, and recent head of Saudi intelligence - was among those detained as part of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's (MBS) so-called "corruption purge" that started with the initial arrests of up to a dozen princes and other top officials last weekend.

If confirmed, the arrest and detention of Bandar would constitute the most significant and high profile figure caught up in the purge - even above that of high profile billionaire investor Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal - given Bandar's closeness to multiple US administrations and involvement in events ranging from Reagan's Nicaraguan Contra program (including direct involvement in the Iran-Contra scandal), to making the case for the Iraq War as a trusted friend of Bush and Cheney, to directing US-Saudi covert operations overseeing the arming of jihadists in Syria.

Middle East Eye issued the report based on multiple contacts "inside the royal court" and indicates further that the scale of MBS' aggressive crackdown is much larger than previously reported, and even involves the torture of "senior figures" among those detained:

Some senior figures detained in last Saturday's purge in Saudi Arabia were beaten and tortured so badly during their arrest or subsequent interrogations that they required hospital treatment, Middle East Eye can reveal. People inside the royal court also told MEE that the scale of the crackdown, which has brought new arrests each day, is much bigger than Saudi authorities have admitted, with more than 500 people detained and double that number questioned.
And shockingly, those sources say that the longtime Saudi 'deep state' power broker and liaison with the West, Prince Bandar, is among the detained:

One of the most famous is Prince Bandar bin Sultan, a former Saudi ambassador to Washington and confidant of former US President George W Bush. There is no word on his fate, but Saudi authorities said that one of the corruption cases they are looking at is the al-Yamamah arms deal, in which Bandar was involved.
While no doubt Bandar's very well-known role in Saudi "oil for arms" programs which have come to define Saudi relations with the West over the past decades is a trumped up and "selective" charge (insofar as the highest levels of the state have overseen such shady dealing) the al-Yamamah deal in particular - which goes back to the mid-1980's - has been an historical embarrassment to both the UK and Saudi governments (BAE Systems was the prime British contractor involved) for the astounding level of fraudulent accounting exposed in UK courts.





I think this article is particularly interesting also

Why Robert Mueller Was Selected To Be The Special Prosecutor
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-12...prosecutor

It all began with the 1996 bombing of the Khobar Towers apartment complex in the Saudi city of Khobar, which killed 19 U.S. military, who worked at the Dharan air base three miles away.

That incident became the lynchpin of the accusation by the Saudi royal family, the U.S. State Department, and the CIA, that Iran is the foremost state sponsor of terrorism.

TL;DR
So, Comey and Mueller were brought in by Freeh because Freeh was about to retire and he wanted successors who would be committed to the theory of the case, that Freeh had gotten from Prince Bandar. If Comey and Mueller wouldn’t go along with that torture-extracted ‘testimony’ as ‘evidence’, then their ability to become appointed head the FBI would have been zero. Freeh, Comey, and Mueller are a team - a team that serves the Bushes and the Sauds. But not the American public.

Our continuing war against Iran is due entirely to their crucial assistance. The Deep State appoints such individuals.

[Beirut]

(11-12-2017 10:50 PM)911 Wrote:  

Agree, Beirut. MBS looks like someone with that combination of ruthless ambition and lack of principles that makes him the right profile for the globalists, he will execute the plans they have for Arabia. He's somewhat similar to Saddam.

There are a few smart sheiks in the Gulf, like the rulers of Dubai. Dubai is the first Arab state to exploit the West and the rest of the world, something no Arab state has done in centuries. They're one of the poorer Gulf statelets (relative to Koweit, KSA etc) yet they've managed to carve for themselves a mini-empire out of great vision and proper execution.

Good report on the MSB putsch by Pepe Escobar:

Quote:

A top Middle East business/investment source who has been doing deals for decades with the opaque House of Saud offers much-needed perspective: “This is more serious than it appears. The arrest of the two sons of previous King Abdullah, Princes Miteb and Turki, was a fatal mistake. This now endangers the King himself. It was only the regard for the King that protected MBS. There are many left in the army against MBS and they are enraged at the arrest of their commanders.”

To say the Saudi Arabian Army is in uproar is an understatement. “He’d have to arrest the whole army before he could feel secure.”

...

Before the purge, the House of Saud’s incessant spin centered on a $500 billion zone straddling Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt, on the Red Sea coast, a sort of Dubai replica to be theoretically completed by 2025, powered by wind and solar energy, and financed by its sovereign wealth fund and proceeds from the Aramco IPO.

In parallel, MBS pulled another rabbit from his hat swearing the future of Saudi Arabia is a matter of “simply reverting to what we followed – a moderate Islam open to the world and all religions.”

In a nutshell: a state that happens to be the private property of a royal family inimical to all principles of freedom of expression and religion, as well as the ideological matrix of all forms of Salafi-jihadism simply cannot metastasize into a “moderate” state just because MBS says so.

Meanwhile, a pile-up of purges, coups and countercoups shall be the norm.

http://www.atimes.com/article/inside-sto...ng-knives/

Very true. And the UAE regime does it all very low key and behind the scenes.

The UAE has backed jihadists just as much as Qatar and SA, yet you never hear about it. Notice how the country that has most to lose from a jihadi attack (UAE) has never been subjected to one. Even though theoretically, a gulf jihadist should attack dubai first.

Even Ben Salman is manipulated by the UAE and mentored by its ruler. They have used his yemen war to directly take over whatever territories the anti-houthis won, and president Hadi is now isolated because of him being disliked by the UAE.

They operated behind the scenes for so long.

[911]

By UAE, I think you're talking about the ruler of Abu Dhabi, Khalifa bin Zayed, he is indeed very involved in nefarious regional/global politics. The Dubai rulers (Al Maktoums) are more focused on bettering their sheikdom. Khalifa got the upper hand after in the UAE after Dubai got hit hard in the last recession, he bailed them out.

[PharaohRa]

The Saudi purge is a step in the right direction but more needs to be done.

[SamuelBRoberts]

I'm very disappointed that people are buying all this "The new Saudi King is a hero reformer who is super-brilliant and will save the world!" propaganda that I keep seeing.
It's like everyone suddenly forgot that paid stealth marketers were a thing. For years and years, "Saudi Prince" has been a by-word for corruption, stupidity, and deceit, but somehow THIS PARTICULAR ONE (who coincidentally would verymuch like to have a strong reputation outside his country) is this great guy who will do exactly what westerners have been hoping the Saudis would do for ages. This is popping up everywhere, and NOBODY is calling it out.

As a side note, anyone who uses the phrase "game of thrones" to refer to a real-life political situation should have their hand chopped off with an ax.

[Transsimian]

(11-11-2017 02:43 PM)Thomas Jackson Wrote:  

(11-11-2017 01:48 PM)Horus Wrote:  

(11-10-2017 08:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

We will see how far they get, but insulting their IQ levels is a dishonest analysis and racist drivel.

He mentioned IQ and work ethic. I challenge you to live and work in a GCC country and leave with the belief that the indigenous population is capable of diversifying beyond a petro based economy. They are coddled, uneducated retards and no reform can change that in the short term.

Most estimates put them in the 85-90 range. And everyone knows the famous Arab work ethic. Inshallah.

I criticised linking race to IQ when it comes to Southern Africans, but in Saudi Arabia, the estimate seems realistic for a place with rampant socially approved multi-generational cousin incest.

If inbreeding lowers White people's IQs, then it is racist to assume it wouldn't lower Arab IQs.