[MVolt]

Anyone here do any strength training? And by strength training, I mean a program designed around several compound lifts, like the Starting Strength program by Mark Rippletoe?

I saw Roosh post a Men's Journal article via his twitter that celebrated the virtues of barbell strength training, and it made me happy reading that. Strength Training deserves more recognition in mainstream health publications, because the benefits are just enormous.

I've been doing the Starting Strength program for a little over a year now, and I'm in the best shape of my life, and I'm far stronger than I've ever been. Prior to that, I stuck exclusively to machines, not really having a plan whenever I walked inside a gym. I just did a little bit of that, and a little bit of this. I still felt weak, despite working on these machines. I also used to have a sloppy, hunched over body posture, with my neck angled forward (think of a stereotypical nerd). But thanks to the wonders of deadlifts, powercleans, bench/overhead press, etc., my posture has been corrected and I've reached a strength point I thought I would never reach. Plus, it just feels awesome putting some heavy ass weights on your back and squatting that shit. Doing that will definitely sprout some chest hairs.

Anyways, anyone else doing a Starting Strength-styled regime/program?

[Kickb]

I started working out with my new roommate who is 6'3 and like 220 pounds and I've been getting Fucking huge. I have already seen great results in only 2 weeks. I'm just trying to lift as much as him and eating a lot of food. I think it would really help you out if you work out with someone larger than you.

[Chad Daring]

Just before discovering Roosh's site I started hitting the gym, full boot camp, 5 days a week, 1.5 hours a day. I saw massive changes. I'm doing almost no cardio, just very scheduled lifting.

M-W-F I do upper body

T-Th I do lower body

I do all major muscles groups, a core work out, then I do all the major groups again till I hit the failure point. I try to keep my range between 6-10

Im ending my 6th straight week of training and actually taking a bit of a break. I've noticed some of my rep counts on the decline, as well as weight feeling heavier then it did a week ago. I was told that every 6-10 weeks its not a bad idea to take a break for a few days, anyone able to corroborate this?

Also I've noticed a lot of the much more fit guys at my gym do isometrics (static holds) vs big lifting, anyone know if there's an obvious advantage to this? I've noticed their all smaller frame guys, I'm thinking maybe its to get the strength without the size.

[Giovonny]

(04-14-2011 05:44 PM)MVolt Wrote:  

I saw Roosh post a Men's Journal article via his twitter that celebrated the virtues of barbell strength training, and it made me happy reading that. Strength Training deserves more recognition in mainstream health publications, because the benefits are just enormous.

But thanks to the wonders of deadlifts, powercleans, bench/overhead press, etc., my posture has been corrected and I've reached a strength point I thought I would never reach. Plus, it just feels awesome putting some heavy ass weights on your back and squatting that shit. Doing that will definitely sprout some chest hairs.

This is really interesting. I have been thinking about what type of exercises are best for Game purposes. Most people think that working out just for looks. But certain exercises can also build confidence, fearless-ness, swagger, mental toughness, and discipline. I usually recommend boxing or some type of fighting but I think that stuff is only for a handful of people. Most people need something a little less violent and barbaric.

I think the "platform" or "Olympic" lifts are perfect. (I think they are heavy squats, power cleans, push jerks, hang cleans, clean and jerks, etc.) My fav is the over head squat.

These exercises force you to compete against yourself and challenge yourself at a deep level. Its almost like Yoga because it has this positive mental shit that happens with it. You gotta "go to war" with this type of lifting. With Olympic style lifting, you have to "explode" with every rep. I think that is the difference. You have to focus almost all the power in your body and channel it into one direction. You use muscles that you didn't know you had. Somehow all of this "power-focusing" is really good for Inner Game.

You literally feel more powerful and athletic. It even effects the way you walk because it helps your posture and develops your body from the core. It gives you a type of raw strength, power, and flexibility that is great for sports, mma, martial arts, etc.


i'm gonna recommend this to guys just starting to learn Game.

[Kickb]

^I know right? the level of confidence and swagger that you obtain from going extremely hard in the gym is one of things i love about working out. I cant wait to get into boxing this summer/fall. Just knowing that you can beat the shit out of someone at will, help your friend out in a fight, and able to defend yourself has to be a great feeling.

What are your guy's thoughts on muscle confusion? Me and my buddy are currently alternating our workouts each week. I guess the theory is it keeps your muscles from adapting to exercises

[Chad Daring]

My gym doesnt have an extensive free weight section, but I do agree the general increase in your badassery is undeniable. I used to hate standing straight because I was very amorphous, now when I stand straight all the muscle groups stand out and I feel like a beast.

Also I was reading something someone had on twitter (cant find it for some reason) about any cardio outside of walking being detrimental to muscle growth. I've been doing cardio after every lifting session and I'm gonna switch to just doing uphill walking for 20 min instead.


For muscle confusion, the way its always been explained to me is that a two different ways of working the same muscle work it just different enough that it forces the muscle to adapt to the new motions. I havent played around much with this yet, but Im thinking about starting it in the new month or so because I'm starting to plateau a little.

[speakeasy]

I so want to start with heavy squatting and dead-lifts, but I herniated a disc at the gym a couple years ago and my back still flares up here and there so I'm forced to go lighter than I want. Once you mess up a disc, I don't think it ever heals 100%. You just sorta learn to work around it. Whatever you do, make sure your form when lifting is on point, can't emphasize that enough.

[MVolt]

(04-14-2011 09:16 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I so want to start with heavy squatting and dead-lifts, but I herniated a disc at the gym a couple years ago and my back still flares up here and there so I'm forced to go lighter than I want. Once you mess up a disc, I don't think it ever heals 100%. You just sorta learn to work around it. Whatever you do, make sure your form when lifting is on point, can't emphasize that enough.

Yeah, Mark Rippletoe emphasizes near-perfect form and technique when doing compound lifts. It's imperative, since it can prevent injury. I'm more concerned with how I'm lifting, rather than how much I'm lifting.

Quote:

This is really interesting. I have been thinking about what type of exercises are best for Game purposes. Most people think that working out just for looks. But certain exercises can also build confidence, fearless-ness, swagger, mental toughness, and discipline.

I think the "platform" or "Olympic" lifts are perfect. (I think they are heavy squats, power cleans, push jerks, hang cleans, clean and jerks, etc.) My fav is the over head squat.

There is a correlation that I've noticed. At my gym, nobody does squats/deadlifts/cleans/presses etc. when I'm there. I'm the only one. Everyone would rather play it safe and just use machines, or do bicep curls. I often wonder why these strapping young men refuse to do one compound lift. Are they scared they might fail? Worried that they might look stupid? Once you do 'em, they're not so bad. It's exhilarating, if anything. It might look scary, but it's not. And there's nothing wrong with machines or working on your biceps, but playing it safe can only take you so far. Got to take some risks if you want to see improvement.

Same thing with game. You look around, and hardly anyone is approaching all the cute girls that surround you. It seems like you're the only one doing it. Again, most people would rather play it safe and meet a girl through a friend, work, social circle, Internet, whatever. Nothing wrong with that either, but just like with Olympic lifting analogy, you got to take some risks if you want to see improvement, especially if you're not happy with where you are.

[Roosh]

I just started the Starting Strength program, but I've come down with bronchitis or something so I have to postpone it for a while.

I'm one of the guys he describes in the book... lifting for years but pretty much the same weights. I think my musculature has improved in look, but I can't say I've gotten any stronger. Plus I can bench more than I can squat, which means I've been focusing too much on upper body like most other guys I see in the gym.

It's funny now that I know how to do a proper squat, I see 90% of guys in the gym doing it wrong, usually going down only halfway.

[Moma]

(04-15-2011 11:55 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I just started the Starting Strength program, but I've come down with bronchitis or something so I have to postpone it for a while.

I'm one of the guys he describes in the book... lifting for years but pretty much the same weights. I think my musculature has improved in look, but I can't say I've gotten any stronger. Plus I can bench more than I can squat, which means I've been focusing too much on upper body like most other guys I see in the gym.

It's funny now that I know how to do a proper squat, I see 90% of guys in the gym doing it wrong, usually going down only halfway.

You need to lift with a partner and go for maxes. If you do the same shyt, you will most likely achieve the same shyt. The body only changes if the circumstance calls for it.

Secondly, and this is very important, you need to pay attention to your nutrition. You MUST take in extra protein if you want to get stronger. There is no alternative to this. You should aim for a gram per pound of bodyweight.

It has worked for me and every single person that I have advised as seen very favourable results.

[Agent_GQ]

(04-15-2011 11:55 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I just started the Starting Strength program, but I've come down with bronchitis or something so I have to postpone it for a while.

I'm one of the guys he describes in the book... lifting for years but pretty much the same weights. I think my musculature has improved in look, but I can't say I've gotten any stronger. Plus I can bench more than I can squat, which means I've been focusing too much on upper body like most other guys I see in the gym.

It's funny now that I know how to do a proper squat, I see 90% of guys in the gym doing it wrong, usually going down only halfway.

When I saw you mention power clean on your twitter feed, I had a feeling you were on Starting Strength. Good shit man. The most important thing is to eat a lot (at least 500kcal over your BMR) and get a lot of rest.

And yeah, I've only seen two people ever squat correctly at my gym. And they're power lifting guys in their 40's.

[Moma]

(04-15-2011 12:20 PM)Agent_GQ Wrote:  

[
And yeah, I've only seen two people ever squat correctly at my gym. And they're power lifting guys in their 40's.

They say it's harder (due to longer levers) for tall guys to squat and they shouldn't even bother.

What's your take on that, brah?

[Agent_GQ]

(04-15-2011 12:54 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(04-15-2011 12:20 PM)Agent_GQ Wrote:  

[
And yeah, I've only seen two people ever squat correctly at my gym. And they're power lifting guys in their 40's.

They say it's harder (due to longer levers) for tall guys to squat and they shouldn't even bother.

What's your take on that, brah?

It is more difficult for taller guys to squat b/c longer levers/limbs, but you should still do them. It's great for your entire lower body and your core. If you do it with correct form, you'll have swole soccer player quads. Better to have a swole upper body and lower body than just a swole upper body and chicken legs.

You'll see a lot of guys doing 'leg press' machine and saying it's an acceptable substitute for squats. It's not. Anybody can leg press a bunch of weight. It takes good form and hard work to squat a lot of weight. So my mantra is Squats FTW.

[Moma]

(04-15-2011 01:07 PM)Agent_GQ Wrote:  

(04-15-2011 12:54 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(04-15-2011 12:20 PM)Agent_GQ Wrote:  

[
And yeah, I've only seen two people ever squat correctly at my gym. And they're power lifting guys in their 40's.

They say it's harder (due to longer levers) for tall guys to squat and they shouldn't even bother.

What's your take on that, brah?

It is more difficult for taller guys to squat b/c longer levers/limbs, but you should still do them. It's great for your entire lower body and your core. If you do it with correct form, you'll have swole soccer player quads. Better to have a swole upper body and lower body than just a swole upper body and chicken legs.

You'll see a lot of guys doing 'leg press' machine and saying it's an acceptable substitute for squats. It's not. Anybody can leg press a bunch of weight. It takes good form and hard work to squat a lot of weight. So my mantra is Squats FTW.

I don't know. I think a tall guy may need to rotate something else in. A lot of NBA guys don't even squat. Even when I tried squatting, I could not keep my upper torso straight. I checked in Arnold's book and he said..a taller guy will not be able to do it due to his height.

But squats if they can be done are EXCELLENT. Free weights are EXCELLENT. If one lifts weights and they don't fcuk with free weights, they are wasting their time.

You gain strength and size far more quickly lifting free weights than fcuking with those simp ass machines. In fact, who wants to go to the gym just to say they go? Nothing more delicious than someone KNOWING you hit the iron.

[Chad Daring]

What is everyones thoughts on the "inbetween" machines. The pullies and such that are much more free then the traditional machines, but still not as free as dumbbells and barbells?

Either way, after reading all of this I'm going to remove all machines from my workout routines. Good stuff.

Also....

Quote:

Also I've noticed a lot of the much more fit guys at my gym do isometrics (static holds) vs big lifting, anyone know if there's an obvious advantage to this? I've noticed their all smaller frame guys, I'm thinking maybe its to get the strength without the size.

[MVolt]

(04-15-2011 12:54 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(04-15-2011 12:20 PM)Agent_GQ Wrote:  

[
And yeah, I've only seen two people ever squat correctly at my gym. And they're power lifting guys in their 40's.

They say it's harder (due to longer levers) for tall guys to squat and they shouldn't even bother.

What's your take on that, brah?

It's harder for taller people, but they should still do them, because the benefits far outweigh the cons.

In the Starting Strength instructional DVD (which you can download from a torrent, if you're so inclined), they have a few tall people doing squats and other compound lifts. So it's very much possible.

[NeVerGymLess]

Did not read. Sign up for elitefitness forums or bodybuilding.com wasting your time on here for advice.

[Chad Daring]

So after reading all around, I'm coming to one major conclusion, and one rule of thumb for working out.

If the ancient Romans couldn't do it, it wont help you.

If your particular workout is based on some kind of machine that wasn't around 2000 years ago, or the advice is based in some kind of science that wasn't possible 2000 years ago it probably wont help.

[Samseau]

I used to squat big for my size. I was up to 265 pounds. But I hurt my back and have stopped doing squats for over 6 months.

I'm pretty scared of messing up my joints, so I take it easy with weights now. I only do what is enough to induce hypertrophy.

[Roosh]

Here's the gym article mentioned earlier:

http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-yo...s-is-a-lie

Great read.

[Docter]

Awesome article, Roosh.
I think I'll print out all his info-pics and put them in my Gym journal for reference.

I follow the (Leangains) blog which is something I recommend you all check out.

interesting Leangains posts:

Truth about alcohol, fat loss and muscle

The Leangains Guide

[Chad Daring]

Leangains definitely has my attention. I'd love to try the intermittent fasting if my life would allow for it, but I'd be half dead at work after just two days if I did that I love that he breaks EVERYTHING into science though. He doesnt stop at "oh eat this just because" he gets deep into why

[Selva]

(04-15-2011 03:52 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

What is everyones thoughts on the "inbetween" machines. The pullies and such that are much more free then the traditional machines, but still not as free as dumbbells and barbells?

Either way, after reading all of this I'm going to remove all machines from my workout routines. Good stuff.

Just a specific example, on a simple dumbbell curl you can feel a point where there is less resistance in the motion. I decided to add cable curls to my arm workout and with the constant resistance I feel it helps.

I started to research this and it turns out Ronnie Coleman uses cables in his workouts, too. Hard to argue with his results.

http://www.getbig.com/articles/biceps2.htm

Here's what he has to say about cables:

"Many authorities claim that cables are solely for advanced bodybuilders, in order 'to refine what they've already built.' I don't agree. Cable work allows you to attack the biceps with 100% concentration, and that sort of exclusive application will make the biceps grow.

Muscle fibers don't know whether the stress is being applied by free weights or a machine; they respond only to the level of muscular stress being placed on them. Whatever does the job, will do the job!"

[speakeasy]

(04-15-2011 12:08 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Secondly, and this is very important, you need to pay attention to your nutrition. You MUST take in extra protein if you want to get stronger. There is no alternative to this. You should aim for a gram per pound of bodyweight.

That's just a fuckload of protein. I'm at about 185lbs. A chicken breast only has 30grams of protein. So I'd need to eat like 6 chicken breasts a day to do this. And that's conservative. Some trainers even insist on 1.5 grams per pound of body weight.

Can someone give me examples of a full day's course of meals for building bulk and strength?

And here is the question I've never found an adequate answer to...how do these dudes in prison get so huge? There is no way they can be getting a bunch of protein from their meals which mostly consists of empty calorie "filler" like mac and cheese, bread, baloney, spaghetti and stuff like that. Yet these guys are coming out of the pen yoked. What's going on there?

[Chad Daring]

(04-16-2011 02:42 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(04-15-2011 12:08 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Secondly, and this is very important, you need to pay attention to your nutrition. You MUST take in extra protein if you want to get stronger. There is no alternative to this. You should aim for a gram per pound of bodyweight.

That's just a fuckload of protein. I'm at about 185lbs. A chicken breast only has 30grams of protein. So I'd need to eat like 6 chicken breasts a day to do this. And that's conservative. Some trainers even insist on 1.5 grams per pound of body weight.

Can someone give me examples of a full day's course of meals for building bulk and strength?

This is why body builders pound protein powder like crazy. You're average powder is damn near 50g of protein per serving, one serving twice a day and you're a lot closer to that number then you were.

I've started adding a protein bar to my breakfast every morning because of this. I've been reading a lot about the advantages of whole grains like steel cut oatz, in the morning since they're have fiber, good carbs, and protein, gonna make that my daily breakfast starting next week. If I see any kind of noteworthy change I'll report it.

(04-16-2011 02:42 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

And here is the question I've never found an adequate answer to...how do these dudes in prison get so huge? There is no way they can be getting a bunch of protein from their meals which mostly consists of empty calorie "filler" like mac and cheese, bread, baloney, spaghetti and stuff like that. Yet these guys are coming out of the pen yoked. What's going on there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlPQJ7qIy...re=related