[scorpion]

I have met a few Nigerian guys who I was very impressed with. I would agree that Nigerian-Americans have outsized success in the U.S., especially compared to other blacks.

Asian-Americans also have outsized success, along with a few other groups as pointed out in that book.

The thing is, though, that none of those other groups have anywhere close to the cultural, political and economic influence of Jews in America. Look at Asians, for example. Asians outperform all other ethnic groups on IQ/SAT tests, have large presences in elite universities, have cultures that value hard work and have strong ethnic loyalty and engagement. And yet Asian-Americans as a group have nowhere near the power and influence of the Jews. So what gives?

I don't believe in any kind of vast Jewish conspiracy, or innate Jewish superiority. I think you can explain it simply by recognizing that Jews, more than anything else, are concerned with looking out for other Jews. This has been their cultural and biological imperative for millennia. It's the only thing that's kept them alive for so long as a nomadic and persecuted people.

What this results in in modern Western society is basically a powerful Jewish networking effect, where Jews who climb up the ranks help pull other Jews up to join them. Jews are much more likely to help out other Jews in this way than whites are to help out other whites, for example, or even other minorities are to help out their fellow minorities. So you end up with a form of Jewish nepotism, which allows Jews to slowly grow to dominate organizations/areas by infiltrating them over time and promoting their fellow Jews over candidates of other ethnicities.

Jews have been wildly advantaged with this strategy in the U.S. since they appear white racially and downplay the racial aspects of Jewish identity, hiding behind the facade of Judaism as a pure religion. But Jews are a distinct ethnic group and readily admit as much. If this were not the case there would be no such thing as secular or atheist Jews, both very common distinctions in the Jewish community.

So the result is that Jews basically assume the public form of whites with a different religion, yet act as a persecuted ethnic minority at every opportunity, most especially by protecting/advancing fellow Jews and pushing political/social policy that serves the interests of Jews/Israel.

[Suits]

I see where some of you guys are coming from. However, on the other hand...



...can't you find it your hearts to accept what Israel is trying to accomplish?

[Hencredible Casanova]

As K Galt pointed out, usury laws and Jewish discrimination in medieval Europe is the source of historic European antisemitism, but that also ironically enabled Jews to flourish in finance, which eventually saw the creation of bond markets (vital in European wars), families like the Rothschilds, and others that financed the Renaissance.

Jews are an integral part of European history and the flourishing of western culture in ways that Asians and other non-European groups simply are not, hence their prominence in the commandeering of western institutions.

This is something covered in great detail in a documentary I like called the Ascent of Money. The part of about the Jewish merchants of Venice is very interesting.

[TheBulldozer]

Hen,

Have you read "Startup Nation?"

I think it explains a lot of the idea about the success of Jews.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-01-2014 04:21 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

Hen,

Have you read "Startup Nation?"

I think it explains a lot of the idea about the success of Jews.

Have not. Thanks though.

[Walderschmidt]

I really like this thread. Hencredible, Scorpion, Quintus, K Galt, and others debating on Israel and Jews civilly.

Keep it up, I'm learning so much.



Wald

[birdie num num]

(03-01-2014 05:04 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

I really like this thread. Hencredible, Scorpion, Quintus, K Galt, and others debating on Israel and Jews civilly.

Keep it up, I'm learning so much.



Wald

Agreed. Hencredible's response to my previous post compelled me to do more research. The other posters also make valid points and do it without recrimination.

[Hencredible Casanova]

There's definitely a lot of smart guys on this forum who are effective in expressing their thoughts. Scorpion, Quintus, K Galt and others have all raised interesting points. I think it keeps quality control high when there's a robust level of discourse in threads about fairly complex topics like this one.

[Feisbook Control]

The Jews do benefit from being white, but they also benefit from being culturally connected to the West, as has been pointed out. Their success and involvement in European culture massively pre-dates them going to America (the Bible being the godfather of it all).

Just off the top of my head:

Philosophy -- Spinoza
Music -- Mendelssohn
Literature -- Kafka
Politics -- Disraeli

Massive numbers of Jews have been involved in science (see my previous post on Nobel Laureates).

The Holocaust was utterly inane in that in an attempt to remove what was perceived as a foreign culture, Europeans ended up gutting much of their own culture.

The hatred of the Jews for being successful seems to me like the hatred of the Chinese throughout much of southeast Asia (and increasingly parts of the West). Where you have an indigenous population that is lazy and stupid -- and willingly so -- of course an ethnic minority that has its act together will dominate. That has always been the case anywhere in history. That is how colonialism worked, after all.

Maybe if the average WASP/post-Christian aspired to having kids who were really good at mathematics or playing the violin rather than being able to throw, hit or kick a ball, things might be different. Non-Jewish white cultures have produced a lot of really smart people, but there is also a virulent anti-intellectual strain that runs through our cultures that I cannot abide (especially when I catch it in myself at times).

Want some better movies that don't push a "Jewish agenda"? Go and create them yourself. The average WASP would rather status whore on Facebook than create the next Facebook. That is the root of it all. I have no sympathy for people who kick own goals, and I say that as the WASPiest of WASPs. You'd think that we WASPs who are supposedly all about rewarding hard work and ingenuity, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, etc. would be applauding the Jews. What we (collectively) really mean is that we're all for rewarding hard work, ingenuity and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps as long as we're the top dog. When someone comes and beats us at our own game, we throw all of our toys out of the sandpit.

When I see someone who is more successful than me, I don't hate the guy and think, "He must have got that success in some devious way". I say to myself, "How does he do it? How can I copy him to be more like him?"

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-01-2014 07:27 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  

The Jews do benefit from being white, but they also benefit from being culturally connected to the West, as has been pointed out. Their success and involvement in European culture massively pre-dates them going to America (the Bible being the godfather of it all).

Just off the top of my head:

Philosophy -- Spinoza
Music -- Mendelssohn
Literature -- Kafka
Politics -- Disraeli

Massive numbers of Jews have been involved in science (see my previous post on Nobel Laureates).

The Holocaust was utterly inane in that in an attempt to remove what was perceived as a foreign culture, Europeans ended up gutting much of their own culture.

The hatred of the Jews for being successful seems to me like the hatred of the Chinese throughout much of southeast Asia (and increasingly parts of the West). Where you have an indigenous population that is lazy and stupid -- and willingly so -- of course an ethnic minority that has its act together will dominate. That has always been the case anywhere in history. That is how colonialism worked, after all.

Maybe if the average WASP/post-Christian aspired to having kids who were really good at mathematics or playing the violin rather than being able to throw, hit or kick a ball, things might be different. Non-Jewish white cultures have produced a lot of really smart people, but there is also a virulent anti-intellectual strain that runs through our cultures that I cannot abide (especially when I catch it in myself at times).

Want some better movies that don't push a "Jewish agenda"? Go and create them yourself. The average WASP would rather status whore on Facebook than create the next Facebook. That is the root of it all. I have no sympathy for people who kick own goals, and I say that as the WASPiest of WASPs. You'd think that we WASPs who are supposedly all about rewarding hard work and ingenuity, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, etc. would be applauding the Jews. What we (collectively) really mean is that we're all for rewarding hard work, ingenuity and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps as long as we're the top dog. When someone comes and beats us at our own game, we throw all of our toys out of the sandpit.

When I see someone who is more successful than me, I don't hate the guy and think, "He must have got that success in some devious way". I say to myself, "How does he do it? How can I copy him to be more like him?"

[Feisbook Control]

Thanks for that, and the rep.

[scorpion]

Ron Unz (a Jew) had a really good article awhile back looking at Ivy League enrollment statistics. His conclusion was that Jews were massively overrepresented relative to their academic performance, which has been declining in recent years relative to whites and Asians. Given the enormous importance of the Ivy League pedigree for jump starting a successful career in academia, banking, government and media, it becomes clear how Jewish networking/nepotism in the Ivy League over the past several decades has given an enormous boost to Jewish influence in the country, especially relative to other minority groups.

Basically, Jews are receiving preferential Ivy League admissions relative to all other ethnic groups, despite being the most successful and privileged ethnic group in the country. What's happening is that Jews are being categorized as "white" for admissions purposes, so in an incoming class that is 50% "white" total, 25% might be WASPs and 25% Jews, a 1:1 ratio, despite whites being over 50% of the population and Jews 2%. So in this manner Jews can both displace whites from the Ivy League and increase their own numbers at the same time, largely under the radar.

This is easily accomplished simply by favoring applications from Jewish students (which can be easily identified by traditional Jewish surnames and/or involvement with Jewish clubs/organizations) over those of similarly qualified whites. Since Jews count as "whites" for admissions purposes, nothing seems amiss on the surface. This is exactly the sort of thing you would expect to happen if Jews were inclined to engage in extreme levels of ethnic networking/favoritism as I suggested earlier.

Ron Unz Wrote:

The evidence of the recent NMS semifinalist lists seems the most conclusive of all, given the huge statistical sample sizes involved. As discussed earlier, these students constitute roughly the highest 0.5 percent in academic ability, the top 16,000 high school seniors who should be enrolling at the Ivy League and America’s other most elite academic universities. In California, white Gentile names outnumber Jewish ones by over 8-to-1; in Texas, over 20-to-1; in Florida and Illinois, around 9-to-1. Even in New York, America’s most heavily Jewish state, there are more than two high-ability white Gentile students for every Jewish one. Based on the overall distribution of America’s population, it appears that approximately 65–70 percent of America’s highest ability students are non-Jewish whites, well over ten times the Jewish total of under 6 percent.

Needless to say, these proportions are considerably different from what we actually find among the admitted students at Harvard and its elite peers, which today serve as a direct funnel to the commanding heights of American academics, law, business, and finance. Based on reported statistics, Jews approximately match or even outnumber non-Jewish whites at Harvard and most of the other Ivy League schools, which seems wildly disproportionate. Indeed, the official statistics indicate that non-Jewish whites at Harvard are America’s most under-represented population group, enrolled at a much lower fraction of their national population than blacks or Hispanics, despite having far higher academic test scores.

When examining statistical evidence, the proper aggregation of data is critical. Consider the ratio of the recent 2007–2011 enrollment of Asian students at Harvard relative to their estimated share of America’s recent NMS semifinalists, a reasonable proxy for the high-ability college-age population, and compare this result to the corresponding figure for whites. The Asian ratio is 63 percent, slightly above the white ratio of 61 percent, with both these figures being considerably below parity due to the substantial presence of under-represented racial minorities such as blacks and Hispanics, foreign students, and students of unreported race. Thus, there appears to be no evidence for racial bias against Asians, even excluding the race-neutral impact of athletic recruitment, legacy admissions, and geographical diversity.

However, if we separate out the Jewish students, their ratio turns out to be 435 percent, while the residual ratio for non-Jewish whites drops to just 28 percent, less than half of even the Asian figure. As a consequence, Asians appear under-represented relative to Jews by a factor of seven, while non-Jewish whites are by far the most under-represented group of all, despite any benefits they might receive from athletic, legacy, or geographical distribution factors. The rest of the Ivy League tends to follow a similar pattern, with the overall Jewish ratio being 381 percent, the Asian figure at 62 percent, and the ratio for non-Jewish whites a low 35 percent, all relative to their number of high-ability college-age students.

Just as striking as these wildly disproportionate current numbers have been the longer enrollment trends. In the three decades since I graduated Harvard, the presence of white Gentiles has dropped by as much as 70 percent, despite no remotely comparable decline in the relative size or academic performance of that population; meanwhile, the percentage of Jewish students has actually increased. This period certainly saw a very rapid rise in the number of Asian, Hispanic, and foreign students, as well as some increase in blacks. But it seems rather odd that all of these other gains would have come at the expense of whites of Christian background, and none at the expense of Jews.

Furthermore, the Harvard enrollment changes over the last decade have been even more unusual when we compare them to changes in the underlying demographics. Between 2000 and 2011, the relative percentage of college-age blacks enrolled at Harvard dropped by 18 percent, along with declines of 13 percent for Asians and 11 percent for Hispanics, while only whites increased, expanding their relative enrollment by 16 percent. However, this is merely an optical illusion: in fact, the figure for non-Jewish whites slightly declined, while the relative enrollment of Jews increased by over 35 percent, probably reaching the highest level in Harvard’s entire history. Thus, the relative presence of Jews rose sharply while that of all other groups declined, and this occurred during exactly the period when the once-remarkable academic performance of Jewish high school students seemed to suddenly collapse.

[Sawyer]

If Christ had given the Jews their own homeland he wouldn't have been persecuted and crucified at the behest of the Pharisees. The state of Israel therefore represents the complete failure and implosion of the Christian tradition. Israel is a standing refutation of the basis of Western Civilization.

Good for the Jews. They finally got what they wanted. Shame on those who fell for it.

Muslims consistently choose irrationality because irrationality can't be co-opted. They may serve chaos, but at least they aren't serving they who rejected the Lamb of God.

Fuck Israel.

[TheBulldozer]

^What the what?

[Sawyer]

Christ could have saved Himself from crucifixion had He granted the Jews international sovereignty.

Israel is a standing testament by Western Civilization that Christ was wrong. The ultimate hoodwink: The Civilization founded on the idea that Christ was right convinced to support the State that shows for all He was wrong.

Good for the Jews. Sick for Westerners to support it.

[TheBulldozer]

Can I have some of what you've been drinking, Sawyer?

[Suits]

(03-01-2014 11:41 PM)Sawyer Wrote:  

Christ could have saved Himself from crucifixion had He granted the Jews international sovereignty.

Israel is a standing testament by Western Civilization that Christ was wrong. The ultimate hoodwink: The Civilization founded on the idea that Christ was right convinced to support the State that shows for all He was wrong.

Good for the Jews. Sick for Westerners to support it.

There's a thread for you:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-16973.html

[big poppa]

I think what Sawyer is getting at is that Jews believe Israel is their holy land, due to God's promise to Abraham.

The Jews then rejected Christ and therefore rejected God (from a Christian perspective)

Therefore, they were given right to the holy land, thanks to a promise from a God they they in fact 'rejected'?

I could be way off.

[Hencredible Casanova]

The funny thing about the Ivy League and other elite private schools is they've never been meritocracies. They're privately funded and can do whatever they want. They generally recruit people mostly from backgrounds that suggest they will be able to afford attending the school and then contributing towards it later in life. They're very worried about admissions stats like yield ratios, acceptance ratios, and the like because the numbers they report are scrutinized and affect their profile relative to their competitors. Donors and alumni groups obsess over those reports. So the Ivy League really does prefer the type of students that go to the type of schools and come from the type of places that suggest they will accept an offer of admission. For poorer students, who they recruit less, they do extensive screening and due diligence. Also, it's easier to make money when you come from money, Ivy pedigree or not. Recruiting financially well-off students will make it much more likely that the schools get an ROI from those kind of students in the form of donations. Hell, some families make donations prior to their kid applying to the school to encourage them to accept them.

Even within the white gentile population, the Ivy League skews heavily towards Episcopalians, who have the most college and postgraduate degrees and highest incomes of any other Christian denomination despite being much smaller in membership.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcopal_C...Membership

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...nd-income/

It's impossible for admission into the top schools to be based strictly on numbers. There's only so few slots for so many people who apply. It's a high stakes game and the kinds of things people must do now to distinguish themselves is ridiculous.

Asians and Jews are far wealthier than white gentiles on average. They can afford the tools to gain an edge in this game. White gentiles will always be underrepresented relative to their numbers. Yet race in general is very superficial and not particularly helpful in analysis. If you look within subsets of white gentiles, you'll find disproportionately successful groups like Mormons, Episcopalians, and Presbyterians.

The majority of white gentiles who are not part of successful Christian groups and are relatively poorer have the cards stacked against them. You won't find too many Bill Clintons in the Ivy League. Few and far between. And you can blame their lack of success for the kind of things Feisbook Control was talking about - a cultural problem.

African-Americans have also seen a degradation and outright stripping of their native African culture when they were brought as slaves to the United States, as well as the influence of poor white gentile habits and ideas.

As I mentioned earlier, the immigrants from African countries that had once been a source of slaves for the Americas (Nigeria, Ghana, etc) have seen outsized educational outcomes in this country. So, it's not about race so much as culture. Even during the 17th century, Africans were viewed generally positively throughout the Americas. The notion of race and its related assumptions as we understand them didn't evolve until later.

Back to the topic, the Ivy Leagues also recruit heavily from the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic states (more than 40% of their student bodies), and historically always have. This region of the country is now home to roughly half of the country's Jewish population but only 20% of white gentiles.

Jews now go to the type of elite high schools they had historically been barred from attending; the kind of places that serve as "feeders" to the Ivy League.

As for the Unz article, it seems to have gotten some mainstream support, though some academics have disputed his numbers (http://andrewgelman.com/wp-content/uploa...icle.pdf).

Regardless of what the official numbers are, I'm not surprised by his thesis, but I don't think it goes far enough as it does not analyze the diverse socioeconomic makeup of white gentiles.

However, the administration of most Ivy League schools are dominated by Jewish-Americans.

http://thezog.wordpress.com/who-controls...vy-league/

Same with the Supreme Court. Nine members. Three Jews.

I know as a group that's 2% of the population nationwide, that seems alarming, but it doesn't feel like 2% when you live in the most prominent cities (NYC, LA, Miami, Chicago). They all have a much larger percentage of Jews and a very visible imprint of Jewish culture in many areas. Jews happen to live in the most prosperous areas of the country and do well in those places.

Like I've said, they have a great culture and antisemitism ironically has only served - and forced really -to make them stronger as a group.

The Talmud is very different from most dogmas, which generally instruct followers to "obey" and not even question what they're being told, whereas the Talmud is essentially an ongoing debate about what is Jewish Law and its implications for life.

I think that also lends to the cultivation of a different kind of intelligence just as many Asians credit Confucianism in their cultural success. It's not just being smart, disciplined, and goal-oriented, but also about creativity, ingenuity and thought leadership. Jews have made quite an impact in those intangible areas more than any other group.

[Courage Reborn]

Hen, you are killing it in this thread. Thank you for your contributions. A voice of reason to a very complicated topic.

(03-01-2014 12:43 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Even if you throw out the idea that Jews have some kind of self-serving agenda in mind through their control of the media, the simple fact that their domination is so pervasive in this area (not to mention their strong presence in government, academia and banking/finance) is at the very least disturbing simply by virtue of how out of proportion it is compared to their actual population numbers.

This is an ethnic group that comprises about 2% of the population of the U.S., and yet which exercises a totally outsized influence on the culture through its dominance of media, academia, government and banking.

What disturbs you specifically?

As I understand you from your previous posts, you are primarily concerned with America loosing it's cultural identity. But your tone alludes to fear of conspiracy or agenda.

I assure you there is none. Like all Americans, we are singular individuals. Trying to make a living, and take care of our families, and the people we love. No Jewish person un-related to me has ever given me a thing. Nor anybody I know. And I've known hundreds of Jews.

(03-01-2014 12:43 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

As a thought experiment, imagine if Japan had a minority population of Black Muslims that comprised 2% of its population, yet which controlled all major Japanese news outlets, film studios, television stations, dominated Japanese academia, had an enormous presence in government through appointments and lobbying, and which ran most Japanese banks.

You would have an incredibly small minority of Black Muslims essentially controlling Japanese culture. A people totally disconnected from the ethnic majority culturally, racially and historically would be in de facto control of Japanese society.

Wouldn't that, at the very least, be extremely fucking weird?

And yet that's basically what's going on in the U.S.

To quote GManifesto...Come on.

Compared to the Muslim world, Jewish culture is nearly synonymous with Western American values. Muslim is night & day different from the Japanese.