[rastignac]

(01-23-2014 03:03 AM)TravelingDoc Wrote:  

(01-22-2014 07:28 PM)durangotang Wrote:  

The US Embassy in Kiev is surrounded right now:

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-protest-us-embassy-056/

The event was organized by Kievans for Clean City, a new pro-government activist group which has spoken out against the rioters and violence in downtown Kiev.

Several thousand demonstrators are taking part, urging the US to “stop sponsoring” mass unrests, local media reported.

“The US is behind everything that is happening in Kiev’s downtown right now. The financing is coming from over there. This has to be stopped. That is what we came out here to say to the whole world: ‘US - stop! US - there needs to be peace in Ukraine,’” said Ivan Protsenko, one of the movement’s leaders.

Cynical about this.

I am sure this "Kievans for Clean City, a new pro-government activist group" will be a force to reckon with in days to come... after the beer money they got for doing it is gone.

[rishboy77]

I was texting with a girl in Kiev I know as she travels the city a lot since she is real estate agent. She said Kiev is filled with all sorts of dangerous people now. She carrys a weapon in her purse, just in case. Business is at a stand still for her.

[Teedub]

Akula, I wasn't dissing anyone when I mentioned the 'worshipping' thing. Probably a bad turn of phrase. I just mean that some people (people who probably haven't even been) talk about it like it's a paradise in every aspect - I was just offering an alternative viewpoint. I haven't been either though.

[Sourcecode]

29 pictures of kiev warzone
Kiev looks like a movie scene

[WanderingSoul]

Wait...are those cops getting ready to throw a Molotov cocktail?

[JJ Roberts]

Protests spread to "at least five more western cities"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25868765

[jimukr104]

(01-23-2014 11:53 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Wait...are those cops getting ready to throw a Molotov cocktail?

No they are drinking Flaming Dr. Peppers!

[rastignac]

A lot of noise on the internets today that the miltia other pro-govt agitators in Kiev are actually Russian.

http://zik.ua/en/news/2014/01/23/sbus_ex...ion_455148

If this is true and it comes out, Putin is looking a little less clever than he has recently.

[rudebwoy]

Yankees go home!

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/01/23/uk...s-go-home/

[HD668B]

All the info available in mainstream media is pro-protester.
Roosh posted on his twitter a link "Good summary of whats going on" but every phrase is still constructed to put the protesters as good people and the russians are bad.

For example they write about Yulia Timoshenko imprisonment and the add the line "Yulia Tymoshenkothe was clearly in favor of the Ukraine-UE agreement." That's called insidious argumentation.

Then, "Peaceful protests started in November 2013, immediately after the president decided to stop the Ukraine-EU agreement. "
LOL have you seen the protests? It's extremely violent, at least from both sides. Actually the next thing roosh tweeted is a video where you can see protesters throw molotov cocktails on police. Nigga please.

Then you have McCain going to Kiev for a speech about democracy LOL. He probably didnt know where in the world was ukraine few weeks ago. And lets not talk about the "american democracy" ahahhaha.

I was actually in ukraine 3 months ago, when the shit started to go crazy in kiev. I was in odessa and not a single fucking person went to protest. My gf actually told me it was all organized bullshit, from oligarch wanting to use the EU excuse to gain more power and money. And most older people in ukraine, like the parents of my previous girlfriends, had no problem whatsover with CCCP (soviet union). Actually they say that the food was way more fresh and tasty, for example.

If you have actually been to EE you will also now that the american and western-european culture is seen as uber cool there. They all fuckin love hollywood and you see all the times girls walking around with a t-shirt of the american or english flag.
Basically young people just want to be part of EU (or the west) for bs reasons. They all think they will get rich and then go to Paris if the EU pact is passed (my gf joked).

Basically I am not condemning all the protests, but the situation isnt simply black and white.

EDIT: This is exactly what I am thinking:

(01-23-2014 06:00 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

The only goal for Washington and the City of London is to separate Kiev from Moscow, and thus weaken Russia’s hand in Eurasia.
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/01/23/uk...s-go-home/

The west is fucking scared of Russia and China. They can feel the power switch. Just in the recent wars of Lybia and Syria, Putin made them look like fool.

[samsamsam]

(01-23-2014 01:36 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

No they are drinking Flaming Dr. Peppers!

Those are pretty fucking tasty. Had a bunch for my birthday years ago. Good times.

[jimukr104]

(01-23-2014 06:38 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

All the info available in mainstream media is pro-protester.
Roosh posted on his twitter a link "Good summary of whats going on" but every phrase is still constructed to put the protesters as good people and the russians are bad.

For example they write about Yulia Timoshenko imprisonment and the add the line "Yulia Tymoshenkothe was clearly in favor of the Ukraine-UE agreement." That's called insidious argumentation.

Then, "Peaceful protests started in November 2013, immediately after the president decided to stop the Ukraine-EU agreement. "
LOL have you seen the protests? It's extremely violent, at least from both sides. Actually the next thing roosh tweeted is a video where you can see protesters throw molotov cocktails on police. Nigga please.

Then you have McCain going to Kiev for a speech about democracy LOL. He probably didnt know where in the world was ukraine few weeks ago. And lets not talk about the "american democracy" ahahhaha.

I was actually in ukraine 3 months ago, when the shit started to go crazy in kiev. I was in odessa and not a single fucking person went to protest. My gf actually told me it was all organized bullshit, from oligarch wanting to use the EU excuse to gain more power and money. And most older people in ukraine, like the parents of my previous girlfriends, had no problem whatsover with CCCP (soviet union). Actually they say that the food was way more fresh and tasty, for example.

If you have actually been to EE you will also now that the american and western-european culture is seen as uber cool there. They all fuckin love hollywood and you see all the times girls walking around with a t-shirt of the american or english flag.
Basically young people just want to be part of EU (or the west) for bs reasons. They all think they will get rich and then go to Paris if the EU pact is passed (my gf joked).

Basically I am not condemning all the protests, but the situation isnt simply black and white.

Interestingly...you pretty much said what my wife said(odessan). Her nephew was offered compensation to go protest.
On Russain radio in NYC (caters to ALL FSU nations) they are also talking about how young folks somehow believe a trade agreement MEANS they will be able to enter Europe easier and make money. Interestingly, its mostly guys NOT women who want to leave to get jobs abroad. But for crissakes it was only a damn trade agreement that offered Ukraine NOT more.
They also wanted concessions like gay marriages and other European political correctness shit to descend upon Ukraine. Implementing that stuff would have cost Ukraine billions(Not to mention the local people don't want that crap). Even some western analysts said the president decision benefited Ukraine in the short term.
They got more angered that Russia gave them money(same as Iceland?) with No strings attached.
Its really sad because the protesting is causing more financial ruin.My wife mentioned something about her moms pension check being delayed. Of course being married to a KGB officer she loved the Soviet union. They were richer and had paid vacations every year. Before they came to odessa(reward for husband dying on a mission in Africa) they lived in Ivan Franskisk(spelling?). My wife was born there...she said they always saw her family as occupiers.

Its also amusing that the protesters got angry because of protesting laws that outlawed helmets ,masks, and taking over streets with tents. That's right out of the NYPD disorder control handbook.Like Akula said...the West is being very hypocritical with this.
I am curious does EU require acceptance of gay marriages and abolish of capital punishment in its trade agreements with USA or the middle East? I think we ALL know that answer.
Btw I think this baby belongs to the EU and the USA is only supporting EU wishes as an ally...they aren't really trying to meddle as much(no benefit to us or loss). Makes you wonder what the EU loses with this agreement that they wanted soo badly!

[rastignac]

(01-23-2014 07:01 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(01-23-2014 06:38 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

All the info available in mainstream media is pro-protester.
Roosh posted on his twitter a link "Good summary of whats going on" but every phrase is still constructed to put the protesters as good people and the russians are bad.

For example they write about Yulia Timoshenko imprisonment and the add the line "Yulia Tymoshenkothe was clearly in favor of the Ukraine-UE agreement." That's called insidious argumentation.

Then, "Peaceful protests started in November 2013, immediately after the president decided to stop the Ukraine-EU agreement. "
LOL have you seen the protests? It's extremely violent, at least from both sides. Actually the next thing roosh tweeted is a video where you can see protesters throw molotov cocktails on police. Nigga please.

Then you have McCain going to Kiev for a speech about democracy LOL. He probably didnt know where in the world was ukraine few weeks ago. And lets not talk about the "american democracy" ahahhaha.

I was actually in ukraine 3 months ago, when the shit started to go crazy in kiev. I was in odessa and not a single fucking person went to protest. My gf actually told me it was all organized bullshit, from oligarch wanting to use the EU excuse to gain more power and money. And most older people in ukraine, like the parents of my previous girlfriends, had no problem whatsover with CCCP (soviet union). Actually they say that the food was way more fresh and tasty, for example.

If you have actually been to EE you will also now that the american and western-european culture is seen as uber cool there. They all fuckin love hollywood and you see all the times girls walking around with a t-shirt of the american or english flag.
Basically young people just want to be part of EU (or the west) for bs reasons. They all think they will get rich and then go to Paris if the EU pact is passed (my gf joked).

Basically I am not condemning all the protests, but the situation isnt simply black and white.

Interestingly...you pretty much said what my wife said(odessan). Her nephew was offered compensation to go protest.
On Russain radio in NYC (caters to ALL FSU nations) they are also talking about how young folks somehow believe a trade agreement MEANS they will be able to enter Europe easier and make money. Interestingly, its mostly guys NOT women who want to leave to get jobs abroad. But for crissakes it was only a damn trade agreement that offered Ukraine NOT more.
They also wanted concessions like gay marriages and other European political correctness shit to descend upon Ukraine. Implementing that stuff would have cost Ukraine billions(Not to mention the local people don't want that crap). Even some western analysts said the president decision benefited Ukraine in the short term.
They got more angered that Russia gave them money(same as Iceland?) with No strings attached.
Its really sad because the protesting is causing more financial ruin.My wife mentioned something about her moms pension check being delayed. Of course being married to a KGB officer she loved the Soviet union. They were richer and had paid vacations every year. Before they came to odessa(reward for husband dying on a mission in Africa) they lived in Ivan Franskisk(spelling?). My wife was born there...she said they always saw her family as occupiers.

Its also amusing that the protesters got angry because of protesting laws that outlawed helmets ,masks, and taking over streets with tents. That's right out of the NYPD disorder control handbook.Like Akula said...the West is being very hypocritical with this.
I am curious does EU require acceptance of gay marriages and abolish of capital punishment in its trade agreements with USA or the middle East? I think we ALL know that answer.
Btw I think this baby belongs to the EU and the USA is only supporting EU wishes as an ally...they aren't really trying to meddle as much(no benefit to us or loss). Makes you wonder what the EU loses with this agreement that they wanted soo badly!

The west doesn't really seem to care one way or the other, best I can tell. There was a Nation report emphasizing the roll of the Svaboda party in all this with nice images of neo-nazis. The message was do we really want to be on the side of right wing thugs? Grated, the Washington Post did write a bizarre post about freeing Ukraine from Putin.

I love how my US FB friends reaction: OMG I hope no one gets hurt and my FSU friends chime in, if people die and it is good for Ukraine, so be it.

Ukrainians in large part hate the Yanukovich regime. This is no longer about Europe and that short sighted trade treaty. It is about Yanukovich and a certain style of increasingly totalitarian and corrupt leadership. The opposition and Yanukovich are not talking about Europe and the trade agreement. They are talking about the protest laws and Yanukovich resigning. They negotiated a three day truce The people rejected that tonight.

Yanukovich's appointed loyalist oblast governors have fallen (forced to resign) to protestors all throughout the west today, in places like Ivano Frankivsk and Lviv. He will only be able to retake them by force. If he does that he weakens his hand in the capital.

Maybe what is missing is the almost universal hatred there is for Russia and Russian rule in Ukraine. I have spent a lot of time in Lviv and Odessa where there is hatred and ambivalence towards Russia, so that might color my sense of this, but all of my Kyiv business associates (I am in software development) are pro-Maidan as well. (Oh there is a guy I know, 60s, ex-soviet Communist official, father of a friend, who loves Russia).

One point folks are making I agree with. The US would have destroyed any such movement say on the Washington DC mall. It would have been violent and the psychological ops through media would have been brutal.

The problem Yankovich has I believe is that he has been bad at consolidating his power and has alienated a lot of his constituency.

Also, he is kind of an idiot. Speaks poorly. Is seen as easily fooled by clever people like Putin and corrupt as hell.

What people are saying about Timashenko is true, but she has some charsima. Yanukovich has none. Do not underestimate that. Dictators need charisma.

Coming days will be interesting.

[rastignac]

On that so called protest at the U.S. Embassy. Looks like they were paid... well supposed to be paid... but that got botched.

http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/01/23/7010876/

Google translate through Chrome works well enough on the above link.

[TripleG]

"One point folks are making I agree with. The US would have destroyed any such movement say on the Washington DC mall. It would have been violent and the psychological ops through media would have been brutal."

Rastignac, US would not have done any better. Just look at the LA Riots if you need an example or the MLK riots a few decades earlier...

In terms of controlling civil disobedience no one in the world does it better than the Russians. They enforce brutal yet effective punishment. Unfortunately cops here are too scared of using force (compared to developing world) due to potential lawsuits so too much power is concentrated in the judicial sector...street justice unfortunately is non-existent here and can lead to a repeat of racial riots or even economic riots, just look how long the Occupy Wall Street protests persisted. If the police in any way used violent force on the DC Mall useless groups like the ACL or NAACP would interfere and trust me the politicians and DC government would get scared of further offending them and their followers and would back off as soon as the media started reporting on local law enforcement using excessive force.

[calwinston]

The fall of the Ukrainian hryvnia begins.....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-23...redit.html

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10...11524.html

When I left Ukraine last month is was still hovering around 8 hryvnia to the dollar. Now it is at 8.5 and declining.

[Akula]

(01-23-2014 09:24 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

Akula, I wasn't dissing anyone when I mentioned the 'worshipping' thing. Probably a bad turn of phrase. I just mean that some people (people who probably haven't even been) talk about it like it's a paradise in every aspect - I was just offering an alternative viewpoint. I haven't been either though.

Yeah no worries mate. To be sure, Russia and Ukraine are certainly no paradises!!

[jimukr104]

(01-23-2014 11:15 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

"One point folks are making I agree with. The US would have destroyed any such movement say on the Washington DC mall. It would have been violent and the psychological ops through media would have been brutal."

Rastignac, US would not have done any better. Just look at the LA Riots if you need an example or the MLK riots a few decades earlier...

In terms of controlling civil disobedience no one in the world does it better than the Russians. They enforce brutal yet effective punishment. Unfortunately cops here are too scared of using force (compared to developing world) due to potential lawsuits so too much power is concentrated in the judicial sector...street justice unfortunately is non-existent here and can lead to a repeat of racial riots or even economic riots, just look how long the Occupy Wall Street protests persisted. If the police in any way used violent force on the DC Mall useless groups like the ACL or NAACP would interfere and trust me the politicians and DC government would get scared of further offending them and their followers and would back off as soon as the media started reporting on local law enforcement using excessive force.

The wall street protest was a joke and very contained. They basically were herded into a park like cattle and maced every time they peaked out of the barricade lol.

If cops were being firebombed NO one would care about the ACL. The LA riots was a mistake they learned from. NYC had its Crown height riots. But that was because the Black mayor Dinkins wanted his black peoplel to vent.Commissioner Kelly was on vacation at the time..but once the NYPD got the GO AHEAD, it was crushed.
Restraining the cops isn't always in the power of the brass..maybe in Ukraine because they can be fired. NYPD cops can't be fired for lawful conduct(unions). NYS law authorizes cops to use deadly force to protect themselves or others from death, serious injury or disfigurement. They are legally allowed even to make a mistake if they fear for their safety and had reason to thing they were endangered.
Amadou Bailo Diallo shooting is an example...we all knew those cop were going to get off because they did the right thing based on law..although it was a tragic error. Cops also shot dead a religious Jewish guy in Boro park who was standing over 20 feet away holding a hammer. ACL has no control over how an individual cop response to a situation.
If American protesters put on masks and take over gov't buildings they will be taken out by swat teams before they can blink. Those actions are considered forms of terrorism...and as you know in the name of anti terrorism states can pretty much do anything..Patriot Act!
Many of the posters here aren't taking sides in the conflict we just don't like the hypocrisy of "big brother" telling others how to live around the world. You can never forget because those of us who lived overseas always have to file out 1040 regardless of where we live!

Plenty of folks have a hard life everywhere around the world. I wouldn't want to live in a bad area of Detroit for example lol. The one thing i have learned is it is better to be at the top of the food chain NO matter where ones lives.
2 kinds of folks..predators and prey.. which one you prefer to be?
But history has shown pure socialism doesn't work, although having some socialist institutions can be beneficial. Hybrid is probably the way of the future!When someone tells me they want a welfare state...I cringe!

If you come over to me with flaming alcohol..it better be a flaming Dr. Pepper, they are great!

[hipster]

Rio de Janeiro a few months ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsIAC99DM10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2D_9oN7y-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv0BZVKhws4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHyfFeUT1-s

[Tex Pro]

[rastignac]

(01-24-2014 03:26 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

RT is Putin's platform.

[Volk]

People are saying Russians are involved but they should take not that speaking Russian as a first language is not the same as being from Russia. That there are some thugs hopping the border and doing some shit up, I don't doubt it, but from that to saying there's an invasion it would be denying that a good chunk of the population of Ukraine is ethnically Russian.

[jimukr104]

Interesting!
http://www.globalresearch.ca/washingtons...ne/5361882

[rastignac]

(01-24-2014 05:24 PM)Volk Wrote:  

People are saying Russians are involved but they should take not that speaking Russian as a first language is not the same as being from Russia. That there are some thugs hopping the border and doing some shit up, I don't doubt it, but from that to saying there's an invasion it would be denying that a good chunk of the population of Ukraine is ethnically Russian.

No. This is not a claim about the ethnicity of the militia or the language they speak. My guess is there are many ethnic Russians protesting and in the militia. I am sure most people are speaking Russian on the ground on both sides.

The claim is that some of the Berkut special forces are actually borrowed from the Russian Federation's special forces. Reports coming from some of the Ukrainian Berkut leadership and reports about their behavior. The thought is they would be more willing to crack down given the animosity of many Russians to Ukraine.

Could of course be part of the information war, spread by the protestors. Worth following.

[Tex Pro]