[tanner]

This thread seems to show how the whole point is being missed about animal and vegan issues. Like I said before I am a vegetarian for about 30 years now. It is the best decision I made. I power walk half a marathon once a week and go to the gym often. However the health reasons are minor. The main reason -75% - is ethics. We are destroying the planet at a rapid rate. The number one cause far above any other is meat production. The world needs to cut down on meat production immediately by about 80% minimum for its survival. We all have an ethical responsibility to future generations. The facts are quite clear. Instead of debating the facts here, one needs to watch the recently released documentary called Cowspiracy. It has had an enormous impact and vegan community has been exploding all around the world. Simply meat production is destroying the planet. You can argue against this all you want here. However, just watch Cowspiracy first. It is creating a huge change in the way people think.

Hence veganism is not really about health issues -- that is secondary. The primary is survival of the planet for future generations.

[Sooth]

(05-24-2016 02:38 AM)cubanlinx Wrote:  

Don't try to stop me from eating my charred animal corpses.

Haha. I'm going to use "semi cremated animal corpse" in the future.

I dislike vegans because they are usually very ignorant, yet they think they are fully enlightened.

Plus they lord their virtue over you, the terrible animal torturer that you are, but have probably had 3 abortions before their 25th birthday.

[Benoit]

Here's how to write a persuasive argument:
Donald Trump = Make America Great Again

Here's how not to:
Veganism =

(05-24-2016 03:02 AM)tanner Wrote:  

This thread seems to show how the whole point is being missed about animal and vegan issues. Like I said before I am a vegetarian for about 30 years now. It is the best decision I made. I power walk half a marathon once a week and go to the gym often. However the health reasons are minor. The main reason -75% - is ethics. We are destroying the planet at a rapid rate. The number one cause far above any other is meat production. The world needs to cut down on meat production immediately by about 80% minimum for its survival. We all have an ethical responsibility to future generations. The facts are quite clear. Instead of debating the facts here, one needs to watch the recently released documentary called Cowspiracy. It has had an enormous impact and vegan community has been exploding all around the world. Simply meat production is destroying the planet. You can argue against this all you want here. However, just watch Cowspiracy first. It is creating a huge change in the way people think.

Hence veganism is not really about health issues -- that is secondary. The primary is survival of the planet for future generations.

Every child you have is another mouth to eat the world's limited resources and another arse to shit all over the planet.

Stick to your beliefs and stay childless if you truly love mother nature.

[tanner]

(05-24-2016 03:26 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

Here's how to write a persuasive argument:
Donald Trump = Make America Great Again

Here's how not to:
Veganism =

(05-24-2016 03:02 AM)tanner Wrote:  

This thread seems to show how the whole point is being missed about animal and vegan issues. Like I said before I am a vegetarian for about 30 years now. It is the best decision I made. I power walk half a marathon once a week and go to the gym often. However the health reasons are minor. The main reason -75% - is ethics. We are destroying the planet at a rapid rate. The number one cause far above any other is meat production. The world needs to cut down on meat production immediately by about 80% minimum for its survival. We all have an ethical responsibility to future generations. The facts are quite clear. Instead of debating the facts here, one needs to watch the recently released documentary called Cowspiracy. It has had an enormous impact and vegan community has been exploding all around the world. Simply meat production is destroying the planet. You can argue against this all you want here. However, just watch Cowspiracy first. It is creating a huge change in the way people think.

Hence veganism is not really about health issues -- that is secondary. The primary is survival of the planet for future generations.

Every child you have is another mouth to eat the world's limited resources and another arse to shit all over the planet.

Stick to your beliefs and stay childless if you truly love mother nature.

No you not correct. Human population is not the problem according to the Cowspiracy doc. That is why I urge everyone to watch it.

The real problem is Animal Overpopulation in factory farms and the resources required to sustain them. Human population is about 7 billion -- whereas Animal factory farm population has exploded to over 70 billion. Each cow alone drinks 35 GALLONS! of fresh a water per day. Do the math. Instead just watch Cowspiracy and all the math is done for you.

A lot of people are quite unaware and ignorant of the real issues. Veganism is about human survival first -- and health second. Mock it all you want. Vegan community is still exploding and there is a good reason it is doing so.

[Benoit]

(05-24-2016 03:37 AM)tanner Wrote:  

No you not correct. Human population is not the problem according to the Cowspiracy doc. That is why I urge everyone to watch it.

The real problem is Animal Overpopulation in factory farms and the resources required to sustain them. Human population is about 7 billion -- whereas Animal factory farm population has exploded to over 70 billion. Each cow alone drinks 35 GALLONS! of fresh a water per day. Do the math. Instead just watch Cowspiracy and all the math is done for you.

A lot of people are quite unaware and ignorant of the real issues. Veganism is about human survival first -- and health second. Mock it all you want. Vegan community is still exploding and there is a good reason it is doing so.

Well, that's clearly false, even allowing for some exaggeration it's beyond the normal upper limit for the largest cattle in a hot climate.
http://beef.unl.edu/amountwatercowsdrink

Quote:

Daily water intake may vary from 3 to 30 gallons per day depending on age, body size (weight), stage of production, and the environment (mainly air temperature).

There is a lot of water out there, and it's a renewable resource. It literally falls out of the sky in many places.

If veganism was so self-evidently the right choice there would be no need for vegans to do anything to promote it, only to live their lives peacefully and serve as role models.

Instead the vegan community is exploding like wordy eco-terrorists.

[tanner]

Water is one issue compared to the other issues like the green house effect and Deforestation. However only 1% of the world's water is fresh and accessible for direct human uses. -Go look this fact up. Fresh water is not abundant. There is no sense debating here until one is properly informed of the real issues. It will just lead to endless chat. Again Cowspiracy has gone into depth with the major issues. Watch it first and you will at least be better prepared to have an honest discussion.

My frustration however, is radical feminists, and gays and other weird vegans have infiltrated the vegan movement and distorted its message. In fact veganism is being used to attack masculinity and promote radical feminism. That is the real problem.

Only 50 years ago the animal rights and environmental community was made primarily of masculine men. Even today the leading academic work in this area comes from masculine men. Cowspiracy for example was made by a masculine guy, yet radical feminists and gays have claimed it as a work of their own and use it as a means to attack masculine men.

Veganism is pretty well equated with radical feminists. That is a terrible injustice. I was so offended at a Animal Rights talk I went to at the University, and the radical feminist speaker started comparing animal suffering and oppression with the women rights movement.

[Wreckingball]

(05-24-2016 04:02 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

[quote]Quote:

Daily water intake may vary from 3 to 30 gallons per day depending on age, body size (weight), stage of production, and the environment (mainly air temperature).

There is a lot of water out there, and it's a renewable resource. It literally falls out of the sky in many places.

"Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed"

[tanner]

(05-24-2016 04:58 AM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 04:02 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

[quote]Quote:

Daily water intake may vary from 3 to 30 gallons per day depending on age, body size (weight), stage of production, and the environment (mainly air temperature).

There is a lot of water out there, and it's a renewable resource. It literally falls out of the sky in many places.

"Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed"

What good is the 1% available fresh water if it is transformed into unusable water?

This is what I mean by endless chatting. Not being properly informed.

I know more ridiculous and dishonest counter arguments are coming so I will likely soon be ejecting out of this discussion. My main points are already made which anyone can read.

[RedPillUK]

What are your main points? We should stop eating the natural diet we evolved to eat to save water? Is that it? Doesn't growing plants require just as much water?

Nah, I like eating a high fat and protein diet, I feel much better and train better on that diet. Becoming stronger is more important to me than enviromental or animal rights concerns. So even if the stuff you say is true, I would still eat animals. Health is my first concern, everything else second.

Animal and egg protein is the best type of protein, and the only protein I actually consider protein. "Protein" from grains is shit like gluten, which is unusuable by the human body. And plant protein? It's not as bioavailable in plants, it has to be converted by the body into animal protein. The process then destroys a lot of the protein. That's why we eat cows who have done all that work for you. Never trust someone who believes you can get protein from broccoli and compares the amounts of that to the REAL protein that is in meat or eggs. That person is an idiot.

That said I've tried eating vegetables just for a few days and it fucking sucks. I'm just hungry and angry all the time. You end up relying on starchy carby stuff to try and fill yourself up and THAT is exactly what is bad for you and the type of food I try to avoid.

Edit: and before you lecture me about caring about myself more than water. How often do you shower? How many times do you flush your toilet per day? Can you limit that 1 shower per month and 1 toilet flush per week? It's for the enviroment, your personal hygiene's not as important. Thanks.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Fuck this vegan noise.

I fucking hate it when people say "oh, please just watch 90 minutes of propaganda that serves my cause and then debate me on the issue". Fuck off, seriously. The sheer arrogance of insisting that hundreds of forum viewers collectively spend thousands of hours of their time just so they can be as "informed" as you are is fucking galling.

So how's this for "sustainability".

Where I live there is so much food waddling, climbing and hopping around the place that I can literally shoot a hundred critters a night within a ten mile radius for a week and not put a dent in their population. That's right. The very next night they will still be shitting on my porch and stealing fruit from my orchard.

So fuck the precious animals. My only regret is that they cost me so much in fucking ammunition.

[weambulance]

(05-24-2016 05:16 AM)tanner Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 04:58 AM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 04:02 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

[quote]Quote:

Daily water intake may vary from 3 to 30 gallons per day depending on age, body size (weight), stage of production, and the environment (mainly air temperature).

There is a lot of water out there, and it's a renewable resource. It literally falls out of the sky in many places.

"Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed"

What good is the 1% available fresh water if it is transformed into unusable water?

This is what I mean by endless chatting. Not being properly informed.

I know more ridiculous and dishonest counter arguments are coming so I will likely soon be ejecting out of this discussion. My main points are already made which anyone can read.

What?

I don't care about veganism, people can do what they want, but you're starting to pull some pseudoscience out to support your case man. How is fresh water turned into unusable water just because some cattle drink it?

Fresh water is not lost. It goes in an animal and comes back out. It goes into plants and comes back out. It's not like it disappears from the universe or gets launched into space at escape velocity.

In the specific case of a cow, 99.9% of the water it drinks in its life will be excreted one way or another. In urine, in feces, during respiration. What water is left is locked up in the body of the animal. When that body is cooked and eaten, some water is first driven off during cooking, and the rest is consumed by the human or animal eating the meat or organs. That water will then be excreted from the human or animal who ate the meat, and so on.

The amount of non-ice fresh water available on the planet is basically determined by geology. As in, how much can hang out in aquifers and lakes. The continents only have so much water capacity, and water is constantly cycling through. It evaporates from the ocean, rains on the continents, soaks into the continents or enters lakes and rivers, and eventually goes back to sea. It's not like there's some contingent of water molecules that always stays fresh unless we fuck it up.



Yes, it can be a regional problem if people are retarded and start overusing their water resources, but that just screws them over, it doesn't affect the rest of the world much. Subsurface water transport is slow. Sometimes it's really, really slow. It takes times for aquifers to recharge. That's why the huge CA population growth is fucking over the entire southwest.

We could produce a lot more fresh water if we wanted to, in a fairly economical way. The way is simple: bring nuclear reactor technology to maturity, reduce the absurdly onerous regulations surrounding the technology, build lots of nuke plants for cheap energy, and make lots of desalination plants on the coasts. The end.

However, the people who worry about cows ruining the planet because they magically destroy water are the same people who A) don't understand nuclear power generation technology but B) still think it is awful and should be banned forever. So I ignore them because they offer no practical, scalable, economical solutions to the problems they rant about.

I believe you are writing in good faith, but you need to seriously reconsider the sources where you get your information.

[Hades]

On a side note weabulance, China is doing exactly that. By 2020 or so they're going to have a couple 10MW thorium reactors on the coast to run a massive desalination effort. It wouldn't surprise me if some day they'd invade Africa and terraform the desert.

[Wreckingball]

(05-24-2016 05:16 AM)tanner Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 04:58 AM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 04:02 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

[quote]Quote:

Daily water intake may vary from 3 to 30 gallons per day depending on age, body size (weight), stage of production, and the environment (mainly air temperature).

There is a lot of water out there, and it's a renewable resource. It literally falls out of the sky in many places.

"Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed"

What good is the 1% available fresh water if it is transformed into unusable water?

This is what I mean by endless chatting. Not being properly informed.

I know more ridiculous and dishonest counter arguments are coming so I will likely soon be ejecting out of this discussion. My main points are already made which anyone can read.

"Cows drink 30 gallons water a day."
Some of this water is absorved in the meat-> is released into the air when you cook, and it goes into you when you eat it. Verdict, not transformed into unusable water
Some of the water goes to fecal matter -> it's used for fertilizer. if its not used as fertilizer, cow shit will just dry and water will turn into gas form, in a process called "Evaporation". It will then come down raining in your face. Verdict, not transformed into unusable water.
Some of the water is released by cow urine -> Once again, and just like cow shit, cow urine will go to the ground, make it smell awfull, and probably destroy the ground. But the water in the ground will go again trough the procedure called "Evaporation". It will go up in the air and once again rain down on your face. Verdict, not transformed into unusable water.
Cows sweat -> Evaporation. Verdict, not transformed into unusable water.


Once again, "Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed."

Final verdict:
#1-Cow Hater
#2-Low knowledge of basic science

Now, if you want to talk about the pollution to the environment, that's a different topic, but don't say the 30 gallons a day become unusable...

[wi30]

Framing an entire debate on one "allegedly" true documentary is intellectually arrogant at best; and completely ignorant at worst. Even the best documentaries use half-truths and omissions to skew the perception of the viewer. Hell, I love watching documentaries but I take them with a grain of salt. I'd rather watch informative documentaries over persuasive ones though. Learning about space or the ocean is infinitely more productive then wasting my time being brainwashed by some liberal Vice-styled agenda. Tanner, your argument is the equivalent of someone whose global warming stance is, "Seriously guys, you don't know what you are talking about until you watch 'An Inconvenient Truth'. Just watch it and then we'll have a debate."

Basing an entire argument on a single documentary isn't much better than basing an entire argument on a single YouTube video. No one is going to take you seriously until you compile some credible sources or peer reviewed data.

[Hannibal]

I notice you said something about the greenhouse effect caused by cattle.

Fuck the greenhouse effect. Fuck global warming, too.

When the dinosaurs were around, CO2 levels were 5 times higher than they are now. You know what happened? Plants grew at enormous rates, which supported enormous animal life.

I wouldn't have such a problem with vegans if they didn't try to evangelize so hard. If your lifestyle is really that superior, you don't have to evangelize. You just live an exemplary life which others try to emulate.

As it stands, you guys smell, have bad skin, no muscle to speak of, and are constantly using creative supplementation to get around the fact that your body requires meat.

So the focus then weirdly enough goes on the so-called "environmental aspect". You want to be an environmentalist?

• Ride a bike to work
• Don't be a consumerist
• Go live with the Amish
• Invest in a few solar panels for your roof
• Live in a smaller home
• Buy food in bulk so you're not wasting all that packaging
• The list goes on
  

I did some research. Meat may consume a lot of energy to make, but it also is very dense, nutrition-wise. The vegan diet is not nutrition dense. It takes more energy that you'd think to make. In fact, lettuce takes three times more energy to make than bacon if you're talking calories. This makes sense.

[Deepdiver]

(05-24-2016 05:16 AM)tanner Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 04:58 AM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 04:02 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

[quote]Quote:

Daily water intake may vary from 3 to 30 gallons per day depending on age, body size (weight), stage of production, and the environment (mainly air temperature).

There is a lot of water out there, and it's a renewable resource. It literally falls out of the sky in many places.

"Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed"

What good is the 1% available fresh water if it is transformed into unusable water?

This is what I mean by endless chatting. Not being properly informed.

I know more ridiculous and dishonest counter arguments are coming so I will likely soon be ejecting out of this discussion. My main points are already made which anyone can read.

This condescending and arrogant tone and self righteous attitude is why Vegans do themselves and their religion so much damage - they are like dealing with any other rigid insufferable religious Cult. They are right and correct and you are wrong and living in a state of sin in their eyes. I have dated some true Vegan women with some oral skills and even they were totally insufferable after one to four bangs.

We need to revisit some basic definitions here...

Masculine Men: Enjoy a great surf and turf grilled tenderloin and lobster tail with grilled asparagus, a nice glass of Red wine paired with the steak, perhaps a side salad followed by a small desert and a Cigar and Scotch with a walk along the harbor with a woman you just feed as part of your victory meal to prepare her for the obligatory victory bang after the walk.

Neomasculine men - above men inoculated against the crazy SJW trends and violent anti masculine Marxist Feminist pro LGBTQ philosophies including radical ideas that USA must bear the entire costs of so called Climate Change, CO2 Greenhouse Effect and Cowmageddeon. Further inoculated against the cat like nature of women who will basically feed on their male hosts and providers if given the opportunity.

Vegetarian Men: Men who have accumulated a bit too much belly fat and high BMI and need to eat salads and lean protein for a while with minimal carbs to get back to their lean fighting weight to increase their stamina and their ability to inseminate desirable Alpha feminine females to create future generations of their genetic lines versus deficient undesirable psychotic sociopathic cultists.

Vegan Men: Oxymoronic - vegan masculine men are incompatible concepts. Men worried about the rights of edible animals, Climate Change and Social Justice rights of psychotics like LGBTQs and the new leftist Cause du Jour; Trannie Fannies and where they park them - have a lot more to worry about the type of men who insured their genetic lines across the arc of human history...

Military Men especially Nuclear Submarine Warfare qualified who have no problem vaporizing all of our radicalized enemies off of the planet who want to cram their lunatic political and religious philosophies down our throats. Then we start over with the traditional family and societal structures that got us - the masculine human race - this far in the first place.

[tanner]

As long as the discussion remains respectful and interesting I may partake a bit more. I find this field interesting but I am not over passionate about it that I am going to go to battle. Right now just being masculine in society is the main battle I am enduring.

So just to say, Veganism is only a small component of a larger movement which consists of Animal Right, Environmental, Fisheries, Climate Change etc, etc activists. The whole sphere does not seem to have a name that I know of, but it is growing at a fast rate. I am not a vegan but overall I think the message of veganism is good and necessary for our times. I do not like however, how the vegan movement has become anti masculine and taken over by radical feminists, gays and other misinformed weird people. The brains behind the vegan movement is usually academic masculine men which is over shadowed.

Many arguments being made by the whole sphere of Earth survival activists which includes Vegans is quite compelling.

The argument that the number one factor above all that is destroying the planet is Animal factory Farming is also quite compelling. I certainly believe it.

The circumference of the earth is only 24,901 miles. Only 1% of earth's water is usable for human consumption. The earth is actually quite vulnerable. It has never had this kind of stress on it like it has today in its history. Over 7 billion individuals and increasing. In 1900, world human population was 1.6 billion. In only 100 years we have had this massive increase which has put a lot more stress on the planet. But the real increase has been in animal factory farming -- which is now estimated around 70 billion.

We really do not know how the earth is going to respond to the new and unique stresses it is enduring. But common sense say that earth resources are finite and there has to be a breaking point somewhere.

That is why the sphere of Earth survival activists which include vegans -- is growing at a fast rate and will likely continue to do so which I think is good. I would say it is important to get beyond the external issues like vegans are fat, arrogant, noisy, unhealthy, and look more into the internal issues. That is where the real debate is going on.

[Benoit]

(05-24-2016 09:54 AM)tanner Wrote:  

The circumference of the earth is only 24,901 miles. Only 1% of earth's water is usable for human consumption. The earth is actually quite vulnerable. It has never had this kind of stress on it like it has today in its history. Over 7 billion individuals and increasing. In 1900, world human population was 1.6 billion. In only 100 years we have had this massive increase which has put a lot more stress on the planet. But the real increase has been in animal factory farming -- which is now estimated around 70 billion.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environ...ion157.htm

Quote:

There's a whole lot of water on Earth! Something like 326,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallons (326 million trillion gallons) of the stuff (roughly 1,260,000,000,000,000,000,000 liters) can be found on our planet. This water is in a constant cycle -- it evaporates from the ocean, travels through the air, rains down on the land and then flows back to the ocean.

"Only 1%" is 3,260,000,000,000,000,000 gallons. You keep referring to things being "compelling" without producing any valid argument.

Start by getting the first principles correct, and you may begin to understand why nobody accepts you assuming the conclusion that vegans are the last hope for this dying earth.

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Live footage of this thread:

[weambulance]

(05-24-2016 09:54 AM)tanner Wrote:  

As long as the discussion remains respectful and interesting I may partake a bit more. I find this field interesting but I am not over passionate about it that I am going to go to battle. Right now just being masculine in society is the main battle I am enduring.

So just to say, Veganism is only a small component of a larger movement which consists of Animal Right, Environmental, Fisheries, Climate Change etc, etc activists. The whole sphere does not seem to have a name that I know of, but it is growing at a fast rate. I am not a vegan but overall I think the message of veganism is good and necessary for our times. I do not like however, how the vegan movement has become anti masculine and taken over by radical feminists, gays and other misinformed weird people. The brains behind the vegan movement is usually academic masculine men which is over shadowed.

Many arguments being made by the whole sphere of Earth survival activists which includes Vegans is quite compelling.

The argument that the number one factor above all that is destroying the planet is Animal factory Farming is also quite compelling. I certainly believe it.

The circumference of the earth is only 24,901 miles. Only 1% of earth's water is usable for human consumption. The earth is actually quite vulnerable.

Gotta stop right here, because this is just bizarre. What do you mean, only ~25000 miles? Like that's a quick day trip? And why are you talking about circumference at all? We don't live on a small strip on the equator, we live all over the planet. The earth has about 200,000,000 square miles of surface area.

You keep fixating on the 1% number as if it's meaningful. This is the kind of deceitful communication environmentalists often engage in. They attempt to make things either seem really big, or really small, by ignoring context. For example, when discussing how much ice melted in the 20th century in Greenland, they liked to cite 9 trillion tons so people would think "holy fuck, 9 trillion tons of ice?! That's like, all of it!" In context, it is actually about 0.3% of the total ice mass covering Greenland, and given the measurement error 100 years ago that's probably within the margin of error anyway. But 9 trillion tons sounds so much more impressive and worrisome.

Or let's look at this headline: "'Astonishing' Heat Wave Melts 97 Percent of Greenland Ice Sheet", story here. This was widely reported. But what actually happened? Actually, over a short period melting was observed over 97% of the surface of the ice sheet. The Greenland ice sheet is several kilometers thick! Who gives a fuck if a few inches melted off the top, or even a few dozen meters? Proportionally, I lose more skin off my dick every time I jerk off than Greenland lost in ice sheet thickness. For anyone who is ignorant of how ice sheets and glaciers work: they lose mass during the summer, and gain mass in the winter. You can't take a snapshot in time and have a clue what's going on. You have to look at ice mass over a multi-year period.

I could go on with examples all day, but I have things to do.

As to earth's vulnerability, says who? Anyone who has a basic understanding of geologic history should see that, in fact, the earth is incredibly resilient and well buffered.

Quote:

It has never had this kind of stress on it like it has today in its history. Over 7 billion individuals and increasing. In 1900, world human population was 1.6 billion. In only 100 years we have had this massive increase which has put a lot more stress on the planet. But the real increase has been in animal factory farming -- which is now estimated around 70 billion.

We really do not know how the earth is going to respond to the new and unique stresses it is enduring. But common sense say that earth resources are finite and there has to be a breaking point somewhere.

That is why the sphere of Earth survival activists which include vegans -- is growing at a fast rate and will likely continue to do so which I think is good. I would say it is important to get beyond the external issues like vegans are fat, arrogant, noisy, unhealthy, and look more into the internal issues. That is where the real debate is going on.

The bold bit is the only thing you said that I agree with. And the people stopping us from properly utilizing the resources to develop new, clean, much more efficient technology are the very people you claim are the earth's best hope.

If humanity continues to waste resources pussyfooting around trying to pull magic unicorn sunbeam farts out of thin air with "green" technology like bird cuisinarts and broilers, we will eventually run out of easy resources and then we will be completely fucked as a race. And that will be directly because environmentalists keep convincing credulous, scientifically ignorant people to support pie in the sky bullshit that anyone with the slightest familiarity with engineering principles can see will never work.

When a movement relies on deceit and the ignorance of its followers to push its agenda, those followers should probably stop and ask why that is.

[ShootTheMoon]

(05-24-2016 08:16 AM)Hades Wrote:  

On a side note weabulance, China is doing exactly that. By 2020 or so they're going to have a couple 10MW thorium reactors on the coast to run a massive desalination effort. It wouldn't surprise me if some day they'd invade Africa and terraform the desert.

Can you give a link to where you found out about this? I've been interested in thorium energy for a while now and I would love to read about real-world use of that technology.

[spokepoker]

I've worked on a lot of farms, that cowspiracy thing is just bullshit.

[TravelerKai]

(05-24-2016 03:02 AM)tanner Wrote:  

This thread seems to show how the whole point is being missed about animal and vegan issues. Like I said before I am a vegetarian for about 30 years now. It is the best decision I made. I power walk half a marathon once a week and go to the gym often. However the health reasons are minor. The main reason -75% - is ethics. We are destroying the planet at a rapid rate. The number one cause far above any other is meat production. The world needs to cut down on meat production immediately by about 80% minimum for its survival. We all have an ethical responsibility to future generations. The facts are quite clear. Instead of debating the facts here, one needs to watch the recently released documentary called Cowspiracy. It has had an enormous impact and vegan community has been exploding all around the world. Simply meat production is destroying the planet. You can argue against this all you want here. However, just watch Cowspiracy first. It is creating a huge change in the way people think.

Hence veganism is not really about health issues -- that is secondary. The primary is survival of the planet for future generations.

Why can't people against cows and mass beef production, do their part to help control deer populations across the US? Venison has no chemicals, hormones, and is much healthier than beef. Failure to keep their populations in check harms our local ecosystems.

What about the rampant wild hog issues? I don't know the numbers for other states, but they cause at least 50 million dollars in damage a year in Texas. Would a vegan eat meat for these causes? Wild hogs don't have chemicals, etc.

What about the underfishing of certain fish and other seafood? Overfishing has hurt many species in the past, but now there are underfishing concerns in certain parts.

If everyone started eating vegetables only, these populations, including wild wolves, mountain lions, and others would get out of control very quickly. Some species will lose and risk extinction.

The stark reality is that balance is key. Balance in diet and ecosystem. God tasked man with managing all the resources of the Earth. Extreme actions in avoidance of balance will negatively impact the earth. We are to be good stewards of the Earth and all of it's resources (animals).

Your primary goal is misguided if management of the planet is the goal. If you want to only eat vegetables for personal health reasons, that is your prerogative, but do not use the Earth's well being as an example to only eat vegetables. That argument will never hold up, because if anything you should be holding a rifle and helping out your local hunters maintain the ecosystem around you. If you do not want to eat the meat, donate it to a needy family.

[Dusty]

Because we want to climb Mount Everest, and live.

[Kona]

People got vegan sunscreen. That's gay.

Aloha!