[Leonard D Neubache]

It's not a great question.

It's an irrelevant one because the thresh-hold for its social relevance is so far back in the rear view mirror it's a speck. It was used decades ago to open a wedge that brought us up to the point where there are active plans on the table of first world governing bodies for professional post-natal murder.

As it stands now it' simply a rhetorical vehicle for people to feel more apathetic about the current situation. It's as ridiculous and asinine as being forced to explain whether you'd rather be raped by a man in the ass or in the mouth and then giving your explanation. You sound like a faggot either way, and that's the whole point of the question when it gets down to it.

[Oberrheiner]

(02-09-2019 04:55 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(02-02-2019 04:48 AM)Blue Bayou Wrote:  

You didn't answer the question...your wife is raped and now pregnant...what would you do?

I am against abortion in general, but this is a great fucking question that deserves an answer.

Wife, daughter, mum raped by evil scum and pregnant. Abortion or no abortion?

Other tricky one is if it has severe health defects.

I am an atheist, and dead against abortion, but these two cases have me questioning that position.

Anyone have some wisdom?

I had written a long rant but it got too emotional ..

Basically people need to take care of themselves and accept responsibilities for their own life.

Many men let society turn them into children because it was comfortable and now complain they lack power and freedom.
We let our women think that they were adults and now we complain that they act like children.
It's just funny ..

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(02-09-2019 04:55 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(02-02-2019 04:48 AM)Blue Bayou Wrote:  

You didn't answer the question...your wife is raped and now pregnant...what would you do?

I am against abortion in general, but this is a great fucking question that deserves an answer

It's just a grey area. But of course, my wife then would abort the child since consent was not involved.

I think this is about looking at principles and not specific scenarios. I mean, that's the same way you do in science if you use the scientific principle.

The science of biology states that humans are born with two arms and ten fingers, but sometimes there are humans born with less or more than that.
And the scientific theory that gases expand when heated applies, of course, only to gases and can't be applied to, say, plastic.

So some rare exceptions do exist.

Same with abortion. Abortion should be legal for say parents with an IQ below, say, 105. It's not a tragedy when two liberal degenerates decide to have an abortion, it's probably for the best after all.
But it can be when a decent man just happened to impregnate the wrong woman and in that case, it should obviously be illegal.

[Oberrheiner]

(02-09-2019 07:40 AM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

I think this is about looking at principles and not specific scenarios.

On the contrary, scenarios are interesting.

You know those martial arts school which promise to teach you how to get out of situations where you already have a knife to the throat ?
No matter what they say, it's almost never going to work - once you're too far in, there is no more good solution.
Focusing on this is stupid - you fucked up, chances are high you'll die, sorry.

On the other hand you have places which teach you what you need to never get yourself in such a position to begin with, that makes much more sense already.

Then we need to be honest on what women are.
And we need to be honest on what our civilization has become.

There are many countries in the world where no woman gets out of the home without a chaperon.
And if something bad still happens to her, he's likely to have big problems (as in not survive).
This is not only for goatfucker muslim countries, I have seen it in armenia for instance.
Those people are just realistic as to what a woman can do against a serious attacker (nothing), and are determined to prevent it.

Married women in feudal japan supposedly always had a dagger on themselves, to protect themselves and their husband's honor - try to rape them and you will get stabbed and die.
Maybe this is what we need to come back to, you know ? People being responsible for their shit.

I don't let my 3yo run alone into a no-go zone.
I don't see much difference with a modern woman living in what the west has become.
If you can't defend yourself you don't go out alone, period.

Yeah, that hurts.
Now who do we point the finger at ?

[RatInTheWoods]

(02-09-2019 05:06 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

As it stands now it' simply a rhetorical vehicle for people to feel more apathetic about the current situation.

Or for those that see the world in black and white, a reminder that shades of grey exist.

I guess what you are saying is yes to abortion in those extreme circumstances, but not to let that be the thin edge of the wedge to bring in wholesale slaughter of babies for lifestyle and degenerate conveniences, and I can agree with that.

(02-09-2019 07:40 AM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

It's just a grey area. But of course, my wife then would abort the child since consent was not involved.

As above, no double consent = no right to life for baby?

Does that mean if a woman tricks a man into a pregnancy he does not want, that "reverse rape" is grounds for an abortion?

(02-09-2019 08:37 AM)Oberrheiner Wrote:  

There are many countries in the world where no woman gets out of the home without a chaperon.
I don't see much difference with a modern woman living in what the west has become.

Can't get onboard with this Sharia based solution. Men get raped and beaten up as well, therefore they shouldn't be allowed to leave home without police escort?

[Heuristics]

I have a huge problem with late term abortions as does much the US by an overwhelming percentage.

I have a big problem with abortion in general, but especially abortion on demand. Sometimes I read philosophy papers and the arguments really go beyond the normal stuff your read... So many reasons. A lot of abortion can be had in portions of the US without giving cause.

Recent developments (I'm thinking of the laws in Virginia and New York) really show at bare minimum for abortion to be adequately regulated. In the US in many places it's easier to get an abortion than many parts of Europe.

Also, federal and state level funding of Planned Parenthood is problematic, when despite the fact that they say they provide women's health services, about a third of their business is due to abortion. Don't quote me on this but I think abortion rates are decreasing in the US due to better access to contraception and better education on teen pregnancy.

[Blue Bayou]

(02-09-2019 05:06 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

It's not a great question.

It's an irrelevant one because the thresh-hold for its social relevance is so far back in the rear view mirror it's a speck.

You could say the same thing about the relevance of being struck by lightning or being attacked by a shark at your local beach...the odds of it happening are miniscule...but it still happens, and as a result the community has plans for building awareness and responses for when it does happen.

Pretending it doesn't happen and that it is irrelevant is not a strong argument.

[Oberrheiner]

(02-09-2019 06:44 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

Can't get onboard with this Sharia based solution. Men get raped and beaten up as well, therefore they shouldn't be allowed to leave home without police escort?

If it was important that men do not get beaten up or killed then yes, that would be an option.

This is already what most foreign diplomats in the third-world do.
Because they think their life is important, you know ..

[infowarrior1]

(02-02-2019 12:53 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

In the next few years, as the great democraphic crash of population decline accelerates in all first world nations, there will be massive and increasingly desperate government campaigns to encourage women to have more children.

When this happens, the moral questions of abortion will no longer control the abortion debate. It will simply change to: "Abortion is Evil"

President Pence will successfully push for a constitutional amendment making Abortion illegal in the entire USA.

Women who got abortions twenty or thirty years before, will be hauled up in front of the courts and charged with Murder. Just like Bill Cosby was convicted of rape for something that, 30 years earlier, would never have been called rape.

We do not know. Its unlikely to turn out the way you would predict.

[budoslavic]

Steven Crowder recently interviewed a former PP worker Abby Johnson for the second time. It is interesting to watch.

Interview's somewhat boring, but some parts are very interesting.
=======
Around 8:30-ish, AJ talked about health sanitary, sterilization and safety in PP's procedure rooms.
Abby Johnson (AJ): "...they are not sterilizing instruments that are being used woman-to-woman."
Steven Crowder (SC), perplexed: "Why not though?"
AJ: "There's no time."
SC, looking stunned: "That many abortions they can't sterilize equipment?"
AJ: "Yeah..."
AJ (around 8:35): "...a lot of clinics are performing 50, 60, 70 abortions a day...some of the clinics are washing the instruments in Dawn dish soap..."
SC, shaking his head in disbelief at the number of abortions per day and PP's lack of health sanitary and safety.
=======
Around 30:00-ish, AJ talks about her organization (AbortionWorker.com) that provides counseling and support services for former abortion workers. A large percentage of former abortion workers who came to AbortionWorker.com organization need professional counseling due to trauma from witnessing babies who were alive being left to die and suffocated on their own in a procedure room.

AJ: "...we've had a lot of workers come to us from late-term abortion clinics...they're telling us like about babies that are born alive. That are suffocated to death. They're left to die crying on their own...in a metal pan...one of our workers that came to us...there was a baby born alive at 23 weeks...they were physically blocking her from leaving the procedure room to go call 911 to save this baby."
=======

[Chester]

I believe that this is the personal choice of each girl.

[Kid Twist]

If men want to be with women who are virgins, the question answers itself.

[hv123]

I wonder how much actual unprotected sex goes on. Abortions are only the tip of the pyramid - what percentage of unprotected sexual encounters result in pregnancy and what percentage of those pregnancies are actually terminated (aka murdered).

The ratio sex to abortion ratio is actually probably pretty low.

[Beyond Borders]

Glad to see this thread alive again.

It has been some years since I started it.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a definite hell no at this point. Never again, and shouldn't have happened to begin with, not that I can do much about that now.

It's wrong. Bottom line.

[for.petes.sake]

This is a very complex topic. One view I would like to add to this debate is the eugenics side. I'm not talking about eradicating races but I am specifically talking about diseases and genetics disorders. Would anyone want a kid that has dwarfism or even worse genetic disorders like down syndrome or Progeria? Life is already hard but imagine going through life with a genetic disorder. And although some pro-life people will parade success stories of people who have these disorders; we know that deep down we still feel sorry for them. I would want my kid to have live life to the fullest and be on an equal footing with his peers and to never feel pity from someones else. These people with genetic disorders also put a strain on healthcare systems in the West. Do you want to be footing the bill? Some of these disorders can results in thousands of wasted taxpayer money. Iceland has eradicated down syndrome in its nation and I feel like that is an amazing medical achievement. Remember abortions have reduced infanticide. In the olden times, humans would abandon these babies in the forest to be killed. So i do support abortions when it comes to getting rid of genetic disorders.

[hv123]

(03-04-2019 10:56 PM)for.petes.sake Wrote:  

This is a very complex topic. One view I would like to add to this debate is the eugenics side. I'm not talking about eradicating races but I am specifically talking about diseases and genetics disorders. Would anyone want a kid that has dwarfism or even worse genetic disorders like down syndrome or Progeria? Life is already hard but imagine going through life with a genetic disorder. And although some pro-life people will parade success stories of people who have these disorders; we know that deep down we still feel sorry for them. I would want my kid to have live life to the fullest and be on an equal footing with his peers and to never feel pity from someones else. These people with genetic disorders also put a strain on healthcare systems in the West. Do you want to be footing the bill? Some of these disorders can results in thousands of wasted taxpayer money. Iceland has eradicated down syndrome in its nation and I feel like that is an amazing medical achievement. Remember abortions have reduced infanticide. In the olden times, humans would abandon these babies in the forest to be killed. So i do support abortions when it comes to getting rid of genetic disorders.

That's not the same as abortion on demand though. One doesn't justify the other.

[yankeetravels]

I do have a story on this subject that kind of decided my opinion on it. I was very neutral a couple years ago, but I think now I lean towards avoid if possible.

In the past, I had a close friend get a chick he was seeing for a while pregnant. They were early 20's and at the time lived in two different countries. I'll be straight up and say they were both kind of basket cases when around each other at least. Back then, my friend was flat broke and pretty much investing everything he had in going back and forth abroad. So, he told our group about the pregnancy and I think the girl wanted to keep it from her family because she came from a conservative area. Basically, neither of them had money to cover the cost of it, so my friend asks our group for help on it. The rest of us talked privately and discussed it for a while, but came to an agreement to help him do it. We all felt like they were better off not having a kid attached to them for at least 18 years.

I've felt bad about that ever since. Our group really brings that up somberly every now and then. I don't think any of us are proud about helping him, but we knew at the time it'd save our friend's individual life. I think I remember trying to push adoption as an option for them if they were dead set against having a kid, but alas that didn't work.

I also dated a Filipina who told me about a girl she was friends with around the same age who had an abortion done in secret over there. I could tell that situation really bothered her because she had very Christian beliefs when it came to life and parenthood. We talked for hours one night about it and I confided to her about the story above. If I accidentally got that chick pregnant there would have been no way she would have given the kid up. She loved the idea of motherhood and babies too much.

Point is, it's a tough subject. It can be a necessary evil, but you are taking away an opportunity at life. I'm really torn on if I'd do it if I got a chick pregnant who I didn't want to be with.

[budoslavic]

Around 19:25 mark, she said: "...the fact is is that it was a choice and it was something that had to be done..."


Pro-Choice women don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions.

[Filbert]

Being a veterinarian, I could do a coat hanger abortion on a chick, no biggie..
It should be done as soon as poss though, before a soul enters the fetus.
If you abort after, there can be problems (both for you and the chick)

[Max RNR]

The hamstering in this article is off the rails. I am surprised it did not have a "reader beware" warning.

Quote:

Anna North
Throughout the last few months, there’s been a lot of focus on abortions that happen later in pregnancy. Can you talk a little about why people seek such abortions?

Kristyn Brandi
Thank you for using the more appropriate terminology. A lot of the people I’ve been talking to about abortions that happen later in pregnancy use these weird terms like “late-term abortion.”

Anna North
Can you explain why the term “late-term abortion” is not accurate?

Kristyn Brandi
Usually, as medical professionals, we talk about abortion in relation to gestational age, but we don’t use terms like “late” because it doesn’t really apply. And when we talk about late-term pregnancy, we’re actually referring to pregnancies that are a week after their due date, so 41 weeks’ gestation, which is very different than what we’re talking about typically when people say late-term abortion. Which I think really reflects the fact that people that are having these conversations may not have that medical background, and so we’re not speaking the same language and it creates confusion for everyone involved.

Anna North
Given that, can you talk to me about the reasons that people seek the procedure later in pregnancy?

In case you really must read how the other side thinks about this horrendous subject:

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/11/18246702/b...ginia-2019

[heavy]

Ideally, the only abortions that take place are with rape where the woman aborts the unborn child very early.

From a less ideal and more realistic perspective, the law is less than 20 weeks accompanied by a culture that finds the practice disgusting, but at times necessary.

That's a nuanced, ideal world.

In the completely bass-ackwards, non-ideal real world we live in, I'm pro-life. Why? Because of the extremes.

The extreme on one side is Ben Shapiro (and my dad). Life begins at conception. Ideally this is great, but people will be aborting fetuses. The cost is putting doctors in jail for performing abortions in very non-ideal scenarios...rape, incest, other very specific exceptions. Or putting those moms in jail. I'm not sure where Shapiro falls on this, but there is a cost to *no abortions ever allowed*.

The extreme on the other side is this strange idea that abortions are liberating to women. Seeing women being proud of their abortion or even think it's wrong that there should be some shame attached is disgusting. I feel shame when I have shorts and flip-flops on in a bar. A woman should feel shame that she accidentally got pregnant and flushed it down the toilet.

I'll take the former over the latter.

Preferably, abortion laws are up to the state, and they can be set on the age of the baby (why not let Indiana have more strict laws than California).

(not sure what got me thinking about this, but thread has no been bumped)

[N°6]

It’s the blood sacrament of Hypergamy.

[Pride male]

With all the birth control around how do women still have pregnancy accidents? If there was no birth control, no welfare and we were still living in the middle ages, abortion would be an option. But how do you support abortion in the modern world with higher standard of living people enjoy?

[loremipsum]

Quote:

Alabama just passed a near-total abortion ban with no exceptions for rape or incest

The legislation -- House Bill 314, "Human Life Protection Act" -- bans all abortions in the state except when "abortion is necessary in order to prevent a serious health risk" to the woman, according to the bill's text. It criminalizes the procedure, reclassifying abortion as a Class A felony, punishable by up to 99 years in prison for doctors.

link

Waiting for the outrage

[Malone]

A perfect example of why the whole system with the powers of the states being separate from that of the Fed was inspired.