[SamuelBRoberts]

(02-01-2019 10:05 PM)Blue Bayou Wrote:  

Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, it's reality.

Go take that moral high ground preaching to almost any place outside of the first-world and see what sort of response you get.

"Abortion is reality"? What kind of D Grade argument is that? I've seen lots of people for abortion, I've seen lots of people against abortion, but I've never seen anybody who said that abortion didn't exist.

Anyway, SJWs are for it, so I'm against it. That heuristic has never failed me on anything and I don't think it's gonna fail me here, either.

[Leonard D Neubache]

The British are here.
They run the Americas.
You are a colony.
Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, it's reality.
Get over it.

[stugatz]

I hate abortion and think it, alongside feminism, has ruined the country and the West.

However, I do acknowledge that there are silver linings with it (the first one gives me a kind of sick pleasure, the second not so much). Shitlibs don't reproduce nearly as much, and lower-income Americans from inner city slums aren't irresponsibly reproducing nearly as much as they otherwise would be. How much worse would the public assistance problem be with loads and loads and loads and loads more babies from, say, urban decay plagued inner city Detroit?

It pains me to say the second part - until our culture started rotting, black Americans had higher marriage rates than whites did, and I presume better family values. This probably extended to Hispanics too.

I don't know if it's wrong to smile at the fact, though, that so many degenerate white liberals aren't going to have children. They're our enemies, but doing what I'm doing is low-key cheering for abortion, and doesn't help me sleep at night.

[Donfitz007]

I used to be anti-abortion but then i realized the true nature of women. My girl got pregnant, she went on a rant about how useless I was and only wanted the baby JUST to use it against me and hurt me. Then wanted an abortion. I Paid for it, got it done. 1 year later found out the baby couldn't have been mine. (a surgery left me infertile until they fix it) Plus I never came in her.


Long story short, Im still pretty much anti-abortions. However, women are trash.



and for a dark joke
I'm conflicted about abortion, on one hand, it kills babies, on the other hand it gives women rights

[TigerMandingo]

Typically, arguments against abortion have a religious basis. You will often hear the phrase "life is sacred" or "life is precious" which are both biblical. The thing is there's nothing really sacred about life. Millions of organisms are born every second and die every second. It's just the way of nature but the "sacred" part was added by humans to assign special importance to themselves.

[SamuelBRoberts]

(02-01-2019 10:27 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

Typically, arguments against abortion have a religious basis. You will often hear the phrase "life is sacred" or "life is precious" which are both biblical. The thing is there's nothing really sacred about life. Millions of organisms are born every second and die every second. It's just the way of nature but the "sacred" part was added by humans to assign special importance to themselves.

You say this, but you'd still be pretty mad if I stabbed you in the kidneys.

[Blue Bayou]

(02-01-2019 10:20 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, it's reality.
Get over it.

Yes, exactly, get over it.

[astro]

I think it's hard to internalize what abortion is. We have multiple levels of birth control readily available. An abortion is neglecting all levels of that, period. Some people are so fucking dumb that they don't adhere to some basic precautions, find themselves in a rather life changing circumstance, THEN decide their control. It's hard for me to be against people procreating that are so stupid. On some level I am against it, but on another I wish there was more. Overall, I wish I was in a society where this wasn't something anyone had to think about.

[Blue Bayou]

(02-01-2019 10:35 PM)astro Wrote:  

I think it's hard to internalize what abortion is. We have multiple levels of birth control readily available. An abortion is neglecting all levels of that, period.

Ok, sounds like that you are saying that birth control is just another means of abortion...just at an earlier stage.

So any female on birth control, and any male who has ever worn a condom, has in some way contributed to an abortion (denial of life) by denying the chance of conception which is in essence the denial of life.

[NoMoreTO]

The vast majority of these women have consensual sex with a man, then they say the pregnancy was not "planned". As men we know that if we bang we can get the girl pregnant. Women not so much. Yes there are domes, pills, all sorts of contraception, but none says 100% effective. Even pulling out isn't guaranteed.

There is something very anti feminine and cold about a woman having the life inside of her destroyed. Even if you think that the fetus is not a full human life, it is still your kin.

Most abortions are a combination of this non femininity, mixed with fear of the unknown, perhaps the baby is from an casual relationship, a desire for career/vacations/big fancy wedding. Often the guy, chick friends are on board for similar reasons, but its still not their choice. All the responsibility for this goes to the women in our society, this is what they want apparently.

[moneyshot]

After reading the story a few threads down about that Serbian thot who committed infanticide right after the first twin was born prematurely, my opinion has swayed a little toward the "in favor of" side of things. That's just an off-the-cuff reaction, though.

[astro]

@Blue lol, no. Birth control stops either the available egg from being fertilized or sperm from being able to meet the egg. I guess if you didn't know, there it is. Once an egg is fertilized, abortion begins. That's the debate I was focused on.

[Brodiaga]

I may be going against the general party line here, but I don't give a fuck about abortion at all. There are too many people in the world already and many of them don't contribute anything at all to society. Most of those who get aborted would probably be a burden to society if they were born. I don't want to pay more taxes so that dumb sluts can get free unlimited abortions, but I don't want abortion to be illegal either.

[Leonard D Neubache]

What kind of society do you want?

Somehow aptly this is a case of having to ask which came first, the chicken or the egg.

Would fetuses aborted be burdens to society if born because their prospective mothers are ratshit skanks? Or are the prospective mothers ratshit skanks because we've adapted society to give them a free way out for every shitty decision they make, including failing to use the many and varied forms of birth control available to them? A free way out even if the method for that escape is abhorrent.

Look at the amish, or any wholesome community. How many of their women are giving birth to "useless burdens"? It's the society that creates the woman that creates the so-called need to abort "future burdens". It echoes both ways. Give women access to abortions and you create ratshit skanks who help create the society where people say "I'm glad they're not giving birth".

As for overpopulation, currently Africa, China and India are each going to have two kids for every one you refuse to have yourself. They will be happy to step into your place when you self-genocide to save the planet.

[Buddydowrongright2]

I think abortion is repugnant and should not exist at all but if I got a bitch pregnant and did not want to be her baby daddy bet your ass I’d be handing her a coat hanger

[Pride male]

Abortion is murder. What if you had been aborted? Even animals don't kill their own young.

[JimBobsCooters]

I'm kind of torn on the whole thing.

On the highest level I find the killing aspect to be reprehensible.

On the flipside, the majority of people using abortion are people you don't want reproducing that would be bringing children into situations that will just "repeat the cycle" and thus for society it's a net positive. Remember that the people who are needing abortions are the ones too stupid to use other far simpler forms of birth control.

Given the amount of killing that goes on for far less positive reasons I'm able to balance my thoughts to be in favour of abortion being a choice.

I will say that I'm personally absolutely in favour in it being available in the situation of degenerative birth conditions that can be detected and in the case of rape where the woman should have the choice of how to progress and the man doesn't deserve any say.

While I'm in favour of abortion I can't say that I have any real position at what stage to draw the line and I'd say that's partly because I think the different reasons probably deserve different treatment. I think earlier for those using it as birth control as compared to the birth defects argument but again, I have never really delved into it to that level.

I know that's probably not the mainstream opinion here but ultimately that's my personal opinion and I'm fine with it.

[flyinghorse]

Tends to be most right wing people are anti abortion so I think on this forum most will be against it.

I'm more libertarian but I am left leaning on health care, anti-war, pro-rights, and pensions.

I believe everyone over the age of 16 should have autonomy over their body. I see no benefit of having an unwanted child in this world.

[Malone]

I'm not religious and used to have a pretty left-leaning view on abortion. It was like all of my left wing views were—unexamined.

I don't much like Shapiro, but I find his non-religious argument on this pretty persuasive:

Source: https://savethestorks.com/2017/09/ben-sh...uman-life/

Ben Shapiro Wrote:

A first-trimester fetus has moral value because whether you consider it a potential human life or a full-on human life, it has more value than just a cluster of cells. If left to its natural processes, it will grow into a baby. So the real question is, where do you draw the line? So, you’re going to draw the line at the heartbeat – because it’s very hard to draw the line at the heartbeat? There are people who are adults who are alive because of a pacemaker, they need some sort of outside force generating their heartbeat. Are you going to do it based on brain function? Okay, well, what about people who are in a coma? Should we just kill them?”

From the article Wrote:

When Shapiro asked the student if adult life has “intrinsic value,” the student replied that “sentience” is what gives life moral value, not the fact of “being human alone.”…

“So when you’re asleep, can I stab you?” Shapiro asked.

“I’m still considered sentient when I’m asleep,” the student answered, uncertainly.

“OK, if you are in a coma from which you may awake, can I stab you?” Shapiro retorted.

The student said “no,” adding that a person in a coma still has “potential sentience.”

Shapiro then pounced.

“I agree it is potential sentience. And you know what else is potential sentience? Being a fetus!”

I find these arguments very persuasive. Also, as a father of a young boy the idea is pretty repulsive. If our culture weren't so sick young people would have a lot more babies in their extended families and they wouldn't think of abortion as the equivalent of having a fucking mole removed.

Abortion is wrong. Later term abortion is straight up murder. Society punishes murderers or it's not a society any more.

[Blue Bayou]

(02-02-2019 01:53 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

What kind of society do you want?

Somehow aptly this is a case of having to ask which came first, the chicken or the egg.

You need to do better than the chicken and egg question for this discussion.

You didn't answer the question...your wife is raped and now pregnant...what would you do?

[Leonard D Neubache]

(02-02-2019 04:48 AM)Blue Bayou Wrote:  

(02-02-2019 01:53 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

What kind of society do you want?

Somehow aptly this is a case of having to ask which came first, the chicken or the egg.

You need to do better than the chicken and egg question for this discussion.

You didn't answer the question...your wife is raped and now pregnant...what would you do?

Oh. Sorry, zero rep chump. Is my dialogue not up to your standards?

[Malone]

Funny, little Ben has been asked that particular "gotcha" bullshit as well

Quote:

“The answer is that [rape] doesn’t actually change the calculus, meaning that obviously, what happened to this person is an awful, awful horrible thing. And as I said earlier, the person who raped her should be tracked down, captured, killed or castrated. So that’s number one,” he said.

“As far as the morality of abortion [goes], the morality of abortion does not change based on need, right?…The abortion argument really comes down to, ‘do you think this is a life or not?’”

“If you don’t think it’s a life, then you can do whatever you want with it. If you do think it’s a life, then you can’t do anything with it.”

and

Quote:

“If you just come up and ask me do I think a woman should have an abortion, then we could actually have an argument or discussion about what case is an abortion appropriate. But this is what people on the pro-choice side — the anti-life side — actually do. What they actually do is they take the marginal case, they take the rapes — a woman who has a severe disability — and they say, ‘this is all abortions.’”

“That’s not all abortions. Significantly less than 1% of all abortions are performed on women who have been raped. If you want to talk about the epidemic of abortion in the country — over one million abortions performed a year in the United States — let’s talk about the other 99% of cases. When you are willing to agree with me that the other 99% of cases are not cases where abortion should be necessary then I’m willing to have a discussion with you about compromise.”

“But I don’t think that’s what you want. You’re just using the exceptional case in order to try and guilt me into supporting a broad-based abortion platform. These are two separate issues: sympathy for the woman and sympathy for – have a little sympathy for the child. Okay? At any point does sympathy for the child coming here?”

[infowarrior1]

Its murder unless its medically necessary to save the mother of the child.

[Donfitz007]

(02-02-2019 03:21 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

Abortion is murder. What if you had been aborted? Even animals don't kill their own young.

Not a good argument. There are a bunch of animals that kill their young. Some stress abort, some wait for the offspring to be born and then eat or kill the runt (many species do this) and some lose thier maternal instinct as soon as the offspring are born (many reptiles).

[SeaFM]

I didn’t peach anything. I said what I think.