[Onto]

(01-17-2015 02:53 PM)rpg Wrote:  

Lots of great advice here. I got married at 22 to a 19 year old. I was crazy and life kicked my ass a thousand times over. Get your education, career, and finances in order. Get a house. Get married on your own terms to a woman significantly younger than yourself. Always hold all the upper hands in the relationship. You really want to be banging a sexually desireable woman until you are about 60. Sooo that means look for someone 15 to 20 years younger than yourself.

lol. Come back when you are 55 and tell us it will all be over at 60.

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

For the young guys reading this...if you don't follow any other advice

Don't even mutter the "M" word before 35

I can leave my email for you to thank me in 10 years

[ordinaryleastsquared]

(01-17-2015 04:48 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 01:34 PM)Goldhawkstar Wrote:  

Whatever the ideal age is, it certainly isn't "college-age". I graduated high school a couple years ago, and already guys who were in my grade are getting married and having kids after dating for about a year. It's sad - Like, they seem happy now. But in 10 years? When they're 30 and buried in debt and held down from their kids and wife? Doubt it.

Yep. Hey OP, you know what 23 is the "ideal age" for? For you to fuck as many hot 23 year-olds as possible! The best thing you can do to ensure you can be content in a marriage at 35 is to drain your balls between now and then! Dozens, perhaps even hundreds of girls. When you feel your body doesn't have an ounce of fluid left in it, you're ready to be in a monogamous marriage and be a good dad.

ALSO: There is no 23 year old ON EARTH who is mature enough to be married. Now on the flip-side, after 31 or so, they start to get jaded, they've had too many cocks in them to ever bond with you. They have that thousand-cock stare, AND their body ain't what it used to be. So I don't recommend that either. The ideal age, to answer the OPs question, is in the middle: 25-28 or so. That woman is mature enough to be married, but not too old she is emotionally and physically burned out. And, because she hasn't had too many close relationships yet, she can still bond to you. YOUR ideal age to get with that 25-28 year old is 30-35. Until then, your goal is to plunder as many loins as possible, without impregnating anyone

I've been wondering if there might be a sweet spot here for guys in their 40's: Not all 30-33 women have been slutting it up for 15 years. Probably many settled with betas / low ambition buys in their early to mid 20's, and for whatever reason wound up single after their prime.

I could see accomplished, fit guys in their 40's crushing this market, if one is looking for a wife/mother.

Women are going to have baggage, the only variation is whether it somes from you, their parents, their friends, or other dudes in their past...

[The Father]

(01-17-2015 05:07 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 04:48 PM)The Father Wrote:  

ALSO: There is no 23 year old ON EARTH who is mature enough to be married. Now on the flip-side, after 31 or so, they start to get jaded, they've had too many cocks in them to ever bond with you. They have that thousand-cock stare, AND their body ain't what it used to be. So I don't recommend that either. The ideal age, to answer the OPs question, is in the middle: 25-28 or so. That woman is mature enough to be married, but not too old she is emotionally and physically burned out. And, because she hasn't had too many close relationships yet, she can still bond to you. YOUR ideal age to get with that 25-28 year old is 30-35. Until then, your goal is to plunder as many loins as possible, without impregnating anyone

To build upon "The Father's" point:

There's no 23 year old in the US who is mature enough to marry. However, in Europe, and in the East, there are girls who's ambition in life to get married and start a family. They're mature enough to marry at as young as 16.

Why do I say this? I say this because it is not about the age. It's about the culture a girl is raised in, which includes how her family is.

If you take my argument to it's logical conclusion, you could say that most girls at any age in the US are mature enough to get married. And I imagine many guys here, including myself, would agree with you.

G

Yes that's very true and as soon as I wrote my post I thought about editing it to say that. When I lived in eastern Europe, I was surprised how many 21 year old women were more mature than our 30 year olds!

[The Father]

(01-18-2015 01:34 AM)ordinaryleastsquared Wrote:  

I've been wondering if there might be a sweet spot here for guys in their 40's: Not all 30-33 women have been slutting it up for 15 years. Probably many settled with betas / low ambition buys in their early to mid 20's, and for whatever reason wound up single after their prime.

I could see accomplished, fit guys in their 40's crushing this market, if one is looking for a wife/mother.

Women are going to have baggage, the only variation is whether it somes from you, their parents, their friends, or other dudes in their past...

That's me - accomplished fit guy in his 40's. The problem? There just aren't that many "normal" single 31-33 year olds! Why would a woman be single at that age?

- Career chick (who wants to compete with their wife??) OR no one was good enough for her (you won't be either)
- Divorced. If she initiated it, you'll be next. If HE initiated it, she'll be an anxious wreck if you are 5 minutes late coming home from work; she'll assume your cheating. I'm serious I've had that issue!
- Widowed - you know, that's about the only decent reason for a woman that age to be single. But their just AREN'T many of them, and most of them have kids. Try living up to the kids real Dad. When he was alive, he was that slob that couldn't pick up his socks. But now that he's died of cancer or was killed by a drunk driver, he's been elevated to saint status and YOU will always be in his shadow.

I've lived through all of these. Now, I don't necessarily recommend that you get married; why should you? But if you DO need to marry, the best age for the girl is mid-late 20s.

[Cobra]

Not a bad subject to discuss.

However, neither has the manosphere evolved to a point at which it can accept a full on discussion on the subject given the male shaming society we live in ....

Nor have we (red pill men, collectively) evolved to a certain level of knowledge and experience to even start the discussion in a meaningful manner.

At least the people that start these threads seem to be grabbing at the stars before even having taken themselves off the ground. Not a bad thing but always great to ground yourself and take it one step at a time.

If we think about it, it would have felt real discussing it 50 years ago, but now, our purpose of existence has changed. We exist to learn and practice game, which in turn evolved to this point because it was not derailed by such a subject.

[estraudi]

(01-17-2015 05:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 03:09 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

She is better off with an older guy that has stuff established and can provide better leadership for her.

The role of leadership in a relationship is so under-discussed it's criminal.

And leadership is more than just do what I say when I say it.

WIA

...And from bogus threads like this the heavy hitters on this game forum have dropped some crucial and perhaps heavily glossed over pearls of wisdom. Leadership. I for one am in this boat of "great, I can bed the women I chase most of the time, but for LTR-mLTR how can I provide the leadership she drops in hints and convos that she so desperately craves from me?".
Thanks TravelerKai and WIA for helping point,verbally, where my mind has not been able to point itself for a few months, knowing where my game could use more shoring up at my age(28).

Wish a worthy thread about Leading could sprout up from this...

[Pride male]

The Dark Ages. Marriage aint what it used to be.

[kazz]

Ok, some good points ending up from this thread.

Father.. i agree, however there are some women at any age for one reason or another end up single for legitiment reasons who are not (to) crazy, alot of relationships when started young fall apart because the people were not right for each other. But for the most part western women seem to become more unpleasant with age. I had a great LTR with a girl that was 18, i was 30, bit by bit over the years i was with her she became more unpleasant, to the point I wondered what happened to the sweet nurturing caring girl I met. I don't believe in marriage, but if I were to have a LTR 80% chance it will only be with a foreign girl. They are just so much better, at any age because they are not living in a place where they believe they are the center of the universe.

[Pride male]

There is a saying where I come from. Marry a girl half your age plus 7. Not sure why though.

[iknowexactly]

(01-17-2015 04:48 PM)The Father Wrote:  

.... YOUR ideal age to get with that 25-28 year old is 30-35. Until then, your goal is to plunder as many loins as possible, without impregnating anyone

30-35 for a man? Too young, unless you're in a non-gynocentric country, where you can get a stunning 18-25 YO. That is, if you have a fairly strong sex drive--at forty I could still have sex every day. Everyone's different, there are many men who only want sex a couple times a week.

You'll still be stuck at 50 with a wife who's no longer fertile, and far less sexually attractive, but in a non-gynocentric country you can easily get a mistress.

I STRONGLY second Vacancier's argument to spend time outside the USA.

Don't look for a wife in gynocentric America/Anglosphere, or "G-world". Don't. Some G-world women may pay lip service to accepting traditional male authority, but when there is tension her "friends' will pile on, telling her to "be strong" and confront, cheat on, or divorce rape you. Women can't help but follow the herd.

There are exceptions, but they know who they are-- the absolute top of the Ivy-League connected heap, getting a woman who is self-aware about being a POST feminist. and over the moon about nailing you. Again, if you are one of these people, you know who you are. The fact you're here asking questions means you're not one.

Taking a wife from the Anglosphere is otherwise like you need an operation , and you go and buy the critical blood supply for the operation in a country with an Ebola epidemic. Yeah, you MIGHT get OK blood, but why look in the worse possible place for it?


PS-- There's no divorce in the Philippines, unless you are upper middle class and can afford to bribe the church and get an annulment. So SHE can't divorce you, but YOU can divorce here, by leaving the country and divorcing her abroad. You'll still be legally married here though, I think.

My guess is this is a female troll trying to find out how men think about this.

[The Father]

(01-18-2015 03:13 AM)estraudi Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 05:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(01-17-2015 03:09 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

She is better off with an older guy that has stuff established and can provide better leadership for her.

The role of leadership in a relationship is so under-discussed it's criminal.

And leadership is more than just do what I say when I say it.

WIA

...And from bogus threads like this the heavy hitters on this game forum have dropped some crucial and perhaps heavily glossed over pearls of wisdom. Leadership. I for one am in this boat of "great, I can bed the women I chase most of the time, but for LTR-mLTR how can I provide the leadership she drops in hints and convos that she so desperately craves from me?".
Thanks TravelerKai and WIA for helping point,verbally, where my mind has not been able to point itself for a few months, knowing where my game could use more shoring up at my age(28).

Wish a worthy thread about Leading could sprout up from this...

Magnificent post! So many studies show that, despite financial and educational and career gains the past 40 years, most women have grown MUCH more unhappy during that time. The reason is that they aren't psychologically cut out for the leadership roles that society has artificially pushed them into by subsidizing all manner of female deficiencies. Not strong enough to be a fireman? NO PROBLEM! We'll lower the standards :/ Girls don't do well in math in grade school? NO PROBLEM! We'll change the curriculum to make it less objective-oriented and more process-oriented, more about feelings. Women are a tiny percent of executive roles? QUOTAS QUOTAS QUOTAS!

The bible observes that women were put here to be "help-mates" to their men. I'm not religious, I only mention it to point out that as far as 2,000 years ago, it was clearly understood what roles men and women played: Men were beasts of burden, warriors, work-horses who worked themselves to death (figuratively and literally) to support their families, all because nature called upon them to do those things and to be the HEAD of their households. Women were put here to have babies (i.e., perpetuate the species), and to NURTURE them. Practically, this means feeding, cleaning, and other domestic chores. It means NOT leading, but following. So nature has evolved women to FOLLOW, and since hypergamy (natures way of improving the gene pool) compels women to seek out high-status men, the best men, it also means women crave men who can lead, whom they can follow.

It's perfectly natural and perfectly obvious, but trying saying it out loud in public in our ARTIFICIAL, stilted politically-corrected society!

[Geomann180]

(01-18-2015 06:51 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

PS-- There's no divorce in the Philippines, unless you are upper middle class and can afford to bribe the church and get an annulment. So SHE can't divorce you, but YOU can divorce here, by leaving the country and divorcing her abroad. You'll still be legally married here though, I think.

My guess is this is a female troll trying to find out how men think about this.

That's fantastic. I wish more countries were like that.

People would be more cut out for marriage if they knew it was for the long haul.

G

[aguirre]

(01-17-2015 03:09 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

If you are both 23, you have already lost the upper hand. Again put her into your long term or short term area and hold out for later when you have plenty of resources, time, and some money in savings.

Like MikeCF said a long time ago, men mature very slowly and you really don't get mature until 25. She is better off with an older guy that has stuff established and can provide better leadership for her. You might want to let her go when get a chance so she doesn't waste her youth. It's not a knock against you but you need to give yourself the best situation to launch the best life and family possible that you can provide.

For now explore, learn, bang women, develop some skillsets. These good women are not going anywhere soon. They are like busses, if you miss one, there is always another one right round the corner.

(01-17-2015 04:24 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

I just have one question to the OP:

Have you done any traveling abroad? And by traveling, I don't mean 1-2 weeks at a resort in the Carribbeans or Mexico, with family, or with a gf!

If not, then I urge you, if not implore you, for your own sake, to spend as much time as you can abroad outside of North America and the Western world. Even make it your main priority at this time as a 23 year old, to spend a few months to a couple of years abroad before committing to anything major, be it post grad, buying a house/condo or to a girl.

There are many ways to spend extended time abroad. Whether it'be through an exchange semester through your school or teaching English or backpacking or even bootstrapping an online biz in one of the many hubs around the world for that. Check the forums, they've been extensively covered. If not sure where, ask away here.

Go see the world, the sights, try the foods, drinks and of course, no cultural experience would be complete without enjoying the company of the fine, sweet, feminine local women. And let me warn you, once you do get a taste of life and how good it can be outside of the Western world, there's no turning back!

Additionally, once you start interacting with the very sweet, wonderfully feminine women outside of the Anglosphere, then getting married to an American/Canadian/Brit or Aussie girl will be as appealing as spending time in jail.

I know family and relatives and to a lesser extend and degree, friends can put a lot of pressure on the young guys to do "the right thing". But the right thing for whom? Clearly not for you. Maybe for the women, the system and the hordes of ther miserable beta blue pill guys who would love nothing more than seeing you forfeit your most prized asset other your Time, your Freedom and join their ranks as one more Fallen Miserable.

So young man, don't get caught up in the pressures that family, relatives, friends or your gf are putting on you. Go see the world, explore it, conquer it and enjoy its wonders. Which include the feminine women of outside the western world. Then, if after a few years of that, if you're still kin on getting married, then you would be in a better position to make an informed decision with your own best interest at heart. On your own terms!

Go East Young Man!

totally agree with you TravelerKai,I see that I need a younger girl when thinking at this seriouss things..well,we learn by mistakes,it was the first time I didn't thought this things and now I see there is a conflict..

recently we argued and this has been a point of reflection.

thanks vacancier permanent.Yes,I travelled the world,In fact I was in Lithuania in exchange year,living in Vilnius and the second large city of the country Kaunas.

She is lithuanian but of russian heritage and she came to live with me to the Western,but now we argued and I feel that things are not going in the right way,I mean,now I see that I should have choosen her by a more rational decision(younger,and with other qualities..),also,I have seen first time "the true nature of women"..

I'm thinking in going abroad but don't know how to start..do you know any useful link? I'm thinking in doing what I always wanted,study a bachelor abroad of a field I like.

[asdfzxh]

wrg

[UberBicep]

I would only consider the idea of marriage if I'm with the same girl for 20+ years and the kids have grown up, mostly for financial risk reasons. If you've gone through the highs and lows, raised a family and everyone is happy, then there isn't much risk in it ending in divorce. But then likely you'll be wanting a younger model anyway.

The moment you sign that dotted line, you're putting yourself at risk of loosing half of everything you have worked so hard for. Unless she is from a richer family, you are signing a contract that has downside risk and very little upside benefit. In a mathematical sense the expected value from a marriage is negative. Is it worth it? What are you really going to gain from having a wife? Why can't you just be happily together without marriage? Why do you need to sign a bit of paper, have a wedding ring and a rediculously expensive wedding reception?

Just so you can stay with the girl? Don't you have her anyway? If she is demanding marriage then I'd run far away.

Marriage provides no real benefit to a man. If you want loyalty, get yourself a dog instead.

Most couples get married within the first couple of years being with each other but what they don't realise is their relationship is nothing more than a drug addition that eventually wears off. When they are in love it is not possible to think in a rational sense.


If anyone else shares my views of marriage then the next most important question is which women should you have children with?

[zuma]

(08-24-2015 10:27 AM)UberBicep Wrote:  

The moment you sign that dotted line, you're putting yourself at risk of loosing half of everything you have worked so hard for.

Marriage provides no real benefit to a man.

I think it depends each country.

In France for example, you have different kind of wedding contracts. It means you can divide all your belongings with your wife, or you can divide what you earn only after the date of marriage, or you can simply divide nothing etc.

The only problem regarding money is about children. If the mother got the children after the divorce, you have to pay some money according to your salary each month.

And there is one big benefit, at least in France. When you are married, taxes on your revenue are lower than being single or living with someone without being married. Also, you received more money from the government for children, etc.

In the end, I think it really depends each country, difficult to generalize.

[RexImperator]

I think in a healthy society you would have guys aged 25-28 marrying girls aged 17-20 or something like that.

[PapayaTapper]

(08-24-2015 11:08 AM)zuma Wrote:  

(08-24-2015 10:27 AM)UberBicep Wrote:  

The moment you sign that dotted line, you're putting yourself at risk of loosing half of everything you have worked so hard for.

Marriage provides no real benefit to a man.

I think it depends each country.

In France for example, you have different kind of wedding contracts. It means you can divide all your belongings with your wife, or you can divide what you earn only after the date of marriage, or you can simply divide nothing etc.

The only problem regarding money is about children. If the mother got the children after the divorce, you have to pay some money according to your salary each month.

And there is one big benefit, at least in France. When you are married, taxes on your revenue are lower than being single or living with someone without being married. Also, you received more money from the government for children, etc.

In the end, I think it really depends each country, difficult to generalize.

Really? Never heard of that

[BasketBounce]

dudes are saying to wait until late 30s to early 40s to get married, and I understand that vibe. Stack up the paper, travel the world, mess with women so that you don't get hoodwinked by their duplicitous ways. I've read enough of The Rational Male blog to get this idea.

Is it really that easy to get an early 20s GF in, say, Mexico or Spain? Especially if you are a foreigner and a different race from the girl. I just don't see a 42 y/o Asian man pulling a Venezuelan woman in her prime just because he is rich and has game. I don't see a black American pulling a half French/half Moroccan bombshell just because he has some money. i dunno, seems like a hail mary to me...

There are other men out there in these other countries that not only have money, but also have a similar upbringing and social connections that most foreign men simply can't compete with. Can you imagine the amount of effort it would take to fully integrate within an entirely new country? Adapt to a a new set of laws? You'd definitely have to sever ties with your family in your home country...none of that vacationing back home for weeks at a time.

I'm not saying that a foreign LTR is undesirable, but I think some guys here may be romanticizing the idea of getting married to a foreign wife. How many of you cats are really willing to go to Mexico, live there for multiple years, learn the language, embrace the culture, invest in real, meaningful relationships with the locals, learn about the retirement laws, educational system, etc. just to get a wife and have some kids? Maybe if you have family that is still in Mexico, it would be feasible...but we got loads of dudes on this forum talking about going to the Philippines to get a wife, and i know that most of them ain't Fiilipino! haha

If we're are talking about Western men finding wives, I honestly think men are better off finding a "cute-enough" wife who has some rock-solid values. A girl-next-door type chick that comes from the kind of family that YOU want create. I'd rather have wife who is a 6 w/ character than a wife who is a 9 w/ character. You know why? Because all things being equal, the 6 will have only hundreds of men hitting on her instead of thousands At the end of the day, even the most trustworthy woman is still subject to her own hypergamy, so there ain't no such thing as removing the threat of her cheating on me. The only thing I can do is pick wisely so not too many dudes are chasing after her. Yes, tight game is tight game, but I'm not the only man with game out there in the world.

I think we should spend our 20s and 30s travelling and attempting to have LTRs with foreign women as a learning experience. That way you learn just how much value you have as a man relative to a woman. You learn how a bitch thats with it will respect and adore her man. Using that knowledge, you can better judge whether an American woman is LTR material.

I'm 21 right now, but I've been reading this forum for a while. My plan is to experience many women from many different nations for the next 2 decades while I stack my paper. I've got an LTR and a jump-off (check out jariel's threads) and I still have the itch to smash other women, so I know this libido ain't going anywhere anytime soon. Eventually, I'll settle down with a young, American woman who comes from a good, patriarchal type family. Her father should be the kind of older man that most guys here on the forum would want to emulate. She'll have a good relationship with her Dad. These are the qualities that I imagine that I'll want in twenty years...and I imagine that this image I have in my head will become more specific and realistic as I age.

After reading so many threads and listening to some of the more experienced cats on this forum, if there is anything that I have learned, it's that marriage is not something you "just do". The consequences are too great. Marriage is a journey, and it is not one for the unprepared. And thanks to Roosh V Forum and other game blogs, I can say that I think I have a "game" plan to approach it.

[Virtus]

you're 21 and worried about someone getting tail at 42? krauser is 38 or 39 iirc

[eradicator]

(08-25-2015 07:06 PM)BasketBounce Wrote:  

dudes are saying to wait until late 30s to early 40s to get married, and I understand that vibe. Stack up the paper, travel the world, mess with women so that you don't get hoodwinked by their duplicitous ways. I've read enough of The Rational Male blog to get this idea.

Is it really that easy to get an early 20s GF in, say, Mexico or Spain? Especially if you are a foreigner and a different race from the girl. I just don't see a 42 y/o Asian man pulling a Venezuelan woman in her prime just because he is rich and has game. I don't see a black American pulling a half French/half Moroccan bombshell just because he has some money. i dunno, seems like a hail mary to me...

I think that the better quality women in third world countries are more likely to be open to this sort of opportunity because they see you as a potential lottery ticket out of their third world shithole life. But bringing them back to the usa to marry them is opening a can of worms, they will become westernized(fat and entitled).

[Phoenix]

I'd say late 20s, marrying late teens, sounds about right and realistic, assuming a healthy society. I don't agree with deliberately putting it off until 30s and 40s. Fuck that. I'd also consider the fact that I'll almost undoubtedly miss that late 20s benchmark to be a lamentable result of being behind schedule, due to the severe losses of having lived in Australia so long.

I know a lot of guys have a cynical view of marriage, but whenever they post that view I always seem to see a little American/Australian/British flag next to their name. Marriage as an institution shouldn't receive the blame over the true culprit - Western social degeneration

[Robert Plant]

I'm gonna contradict some of the mainstream views in this thread and say you are actually better off marrying a women in her mid to late 20s than her early 20s. Women in their early 20s still more or less have teenage mentalities and are much more likely to fall in and out of love very quickly. A woman in her mid 20s who has not slutted around too much seems ideal to me. For one thing she is likely a lot more mature. Also if she has been with been with less than 5 or 6 guys in her mid 20s, that is pretty good proof she is not a slut and can resist sexual opportunities as they arise.

[Phoenix]

^ That doesn't make sense though. You'll still be married to the 19yo when she's 29.