[jake1720]

Scored a second hit.

Found a friend who had an "up-and-coming" (In my opinion) blog. Profitable enough to travel the world and run around drunk when he's not working. I rewrote his opt in page in less than a day.

I didn't get paid (I actually offered) but he put to A/B split test right away. If it converts better...well. Up rates and I'll start to have some proof.

Food for thought. We'll see what happens.

If anyone needs some guidance let me know. It seems competitive but once you're established not too bad.

[Krusyos]

I've submitted 10 proposals on eLance and no response so far. I'm going to keep applying and hope for the best.

[borntomack]

I've recently started the Gary Halbert Challenge: http://www.thegaryhalbertletter.com/news...rience.htm

It's been a eye opening experience so far. Reading these copywriting books have changed my mindset dramatically. Practicing and writing copy is one of the foundational skills that every entrepreneur should have. I've had a lot of entrepreneurs tell me this, but I never took the lesson to heart until this year.

By learning copy you better understand the mindset of a consumer and how the average person thinks.

[Vigo_the_Carpathian]

Been a little slow on replying. Let's see...

@heavy: That's a tough question. Judging from your posts, you seem to have the potential. Oddly enough, though, there are some guys who drastically change their writing style when in a more "formal" setting (like articles, ads, etc.). The best way to figure it out would be to write a spec ad or two and see what others think--feel free to PM me if you do so, I've tried to help as many of the guys who've PM'd me as possible get started.

@jake1720: No problem, man--I owe you a PM or 2.

@RichieP: Good question. I'd have to go with "conscious empathy." The more that you can put yourself in the prospect's shoes, the more that you can tap into their fears and desires, and find out what makes them tick, the better. The problem is, if you get too far on the side of empathy (like a lot of chicks do), then oddly enough you can start to lose faith in the product you're peddling, "Is it good enough?", etc. That's why I put the "conscious" part in there--if you're empathic, but remain grounded and centered, you're ahead of 90% of copywriters already. If you can get into your prospects' shoes enough to the point where you adopt their language and manner of speaking in your copy, it can even cover up a lot of technical flaws in your writing.

@Elance Guys: I don't want to derail the thread too much--I've never used elance to get clients, though I've contemplated doing so since I've heard it can be a goldmine if you play it right--there are apparently a lot of good companies willing to pay handsomely. The problem for me is that it seems like you have to give out a few "cheapos" to get feedback on those sites. I'd really prefer not to have to lower my rates in order to build up a "rep" on a site like that, when I have an established track record and rates in real life. Don't think I haven't thought about it during slow periods--a lead source is a lead source.

@GeneralMayhem:

Quote:

One thing I learned is not to waste time working for asshole clients. I would tell him to fuck off politely. He sounds like he is going to be hard to please.

This is sage advice. Clients who want freebies are rarely good ones. There's a difference between doing a test project (at your quoted rate, minus maybe a discount for a first-time client) and "proving" yourself by working for free. Think of it like inner game--YOU'RE the prize. YOU can help these peoples' businesses. They should be LUCKY to have you work for them. The sooner you can internalize this (while maintaining a smile, providing excellent customer service, etc.), the better off you'll be.

@Darius: Thanks man, but I can do you one better--somebody posted the entire Gary Halbert letter archive on the Warrior Forum the other day:

Gary Halbert Archive



Hopefully this link stays active a little longer.

Think that's everyone--if I missed anyone, feel free to PM me. Good luck, fellas.

Vigo

[Goldin Boy]

(02-21-2015 12:37 PM)Krusyos Wrote:  

I've submitted 10 proposals on eLance and no response so far. I'm going to keep applying and hope for the best.

That good!

If you really want to make good money on that site that's how many I'd suggest you do a day which is what I do (I need glowing reviews for my writer website). Something like 40% of jobs never awarded so only 6 of your bids actually have a chance.

I don't say that to discourage..but to give you some perspective. There's a book called 72 tips for elance or something. Lot of good tips about proposals and updating your profile.

Oh and it takes time to hear back...I got 3 jobs offers today from bids I placed 2 weeks ago.

[jake1720]

This is stupid.

The amount of people that think I write articles is stupid.

What's the best way to tell a client what exactly you do?

[zoom]

I'm looking to hire a copywriter to re-write product descriptions on my website. My website is in the health niche.


PM me if interested.

[Villain]

Thanks Vigo, this is an awesome thread.

I already get pieces of work here and there, but you've inspired me to step my game up.

Just ordered The Well-Fed Writer on Kindle so I'm gonna tear through that and decide what needs to be done next.

[donnie514]

What would be the best site to find writers to write some content for a website that's a brick and mortar business. I tried fiverr and elance but seems everyone is from Pakistan or Sri Lanka.

[Beyond Borders]

Donnie, how's your budget looking?

[donnie514]

(03-05-2015 07:57 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Donnie, how's your budget looking?

I'll pay what it takes to get her done properly.

[hondo28]

This is one of those areas where the barrier for entry seems cheap and easy but in reality once you "open for business " it's a steep climb to make any decent money. The first thing I noticed starting this was the difficulty it takes to overcome the businesses /freelancers with thousands of jobs and years of experience. So when you hear 3K-5K a project the reality is you are a LONG way from getting to that point. You will literally spend probably 5 years just climbing to that point and that's only if you are good enough to consistently provide good results.

[Villain]

(03-08-2015 03:36 PM)hondo28 Wrote:  

This is one of those areas where the barrier for entry seems cheap and easy but in reality once you "open for business " it's a steep climb to make any decent money.

This may be true.

Yet even if you never become pro, a lot of what you learn is still extremely valuable.

You are setting prices, marketing yourself, negotiating with clients, etc. Just as you would in any other business.

You might never write superstar guru level copy (lol), but you will have at least learned how to identify needs in the market.

Which you can then fill...and get paid. Handsomely.

spot needs + fill them = more $$$$ than you can wipe your butt with!!

[Villain]

Not to mention the mad psychology insights you get....

looking at a hundred Comso magazine covers will certainly teach you something about women

[hondo28]

I actually have a passion for writing copy. I have done it off and on through a couple freelancing sites over the last couple years. The things holding me back are those little things I can't add to a profile easily. Like a master's degree. Or some other kind of certification that the top players have. But getting back to your point I'm always open to more money for butt wiping

[Goldin Boy]

(03-08-2015 03:36 PM)hondo28 Wrote:  

This is one of those areas where the barrier for entry seems cheap and easy but in reality once you "open for business " it's a steep climb to make any decent money. The first thing I noticed starting this was the difficulty it takes to overcome the businesses /freelancers with thousands of jobs and years of experience. So when you hear 3K-5K a project the reality is you are a LONG way from getting to that point. You will literally spend probably 5 years just climbing to that point and that's only if you are good enough to consistently provide good results.

How long have you been writing?

People are drawn to copy because of the work from home idea. But they'll wash out when they realize it's a ton of work to get Bly or Halbert money.

If one is knowledgeable in a niche and has a solid USP I don't care too much about what everyone else is doing. I write like my life depends on it so I'm not too worried about making a name for myself.

You need a reputation in any line of work to command big bucks why does this discourage you?? We respect Roosh's game advice because he's got 100's of bangs and student success stories. No one's gonna hand you 5K to write anything unless you've got an amazing portfolio and glowing references.

You're new here but this forum is for self-improvement, not defeatist attitudes.

[hondo28]

I appreciate your point and respect what you are saying but I think you are missing my point. I'm simply pointing out that my experience has been that it's not quick money and if you have aspirations of making top money it will require more than just reading a couple Dan Kennedy books.

I'm certainly not taking any shots at you or the profession. If you read my post above you will note that I'm in agreement with the potential in this field.

[jake1720]

There really isn't any quick money in life.

If you want a six figure starting salary out of college you're in for a lot of all nighters in the library. Which is pretty much what I've done.

But if you start freelancing now 10 hours a week in 3-4 years you might be able to command 5k a sales letter.

Just like when I learned game. Going out 2-3x for 4 years sucked at first. Now I'm a machine.

Start now, enjoy the process, see where it leads.

[Goldin Boy]

(03-08-2015 07:04 PM)hondo28 Wrote:  

I appreciate your point and respect what you are saying but I think you are missing my point. I'm simply pointing out that my experience has been that it's not quick money and if you have aspirations of making top money it will require more than just reading a couple Dan Kennedy books.

I'm certainly not taking any shots at you or the profession. If you read my post above you will note that I'm in agreement with the potential in this field.

No offense taken. Guess I misinterpreted the tone of initial post.

You're right: Part of the success of the Halberts, Blys, and Gandias of the game is talent, networking, and some luck. Less of the latter though.

The authors of the books/courses skim that fact they worked their asses off, they're are selling an "easy money" dream afterall. Most people are fascinated with the results (money) of being a top writer, not the process(getting rejected, being broke) that gets one there.


Back to my original question: I'm still curious how long have you been writing professionally? Do you do it fulltime?

[Enigma]

(02-21-2015 01:12 PM)Vigo_the_Carpathian Wrote:  

@Elance Guys: I don't want to derail the thread too much--I've never used elance to get clients, though I've contemplated doing so since I've heard it can be a goldmine if you play it right--there are apparently a lot of good companies willing to pay handsomely. The problem for me is that it seems like you have to give out a few "cheapos" to get feedback on those sites. I'd really prefer not to have to lower my rates in order to build up a "rep" on a site like that, when I have an established track record and rates in real life. Don't think I haven't thought about it during slow periods--a lead source is a lead source.

True, but you could always just knock out a couple smaller projects to get those first few 5-star ratings. It doesn't even have to be copywriting.

Find a low paying article job that you can breeze through in a couple hours.

The "cheapos" are more about people seeing that you've actually done a job and satisfied the client. And your profile looks very incomplete without at least one rating.

But overall it's more about your portfolio and actual qualifications.

[hondo28]

Sorry about the late response. I wrote professionally back in 2009-2011. I moved on to other opportunities after that and now I only write for my own projects or if the situation is right. I made decent money and felt like I had/have a good grip on the craft but it is tedious and at the end of the day I just felt like an employee again. Just with 3 or 4 different bosses at any given time.

[Beyond Borders]

(02-21-2015 01:12 PM)Vigo_the_Carpathian Wrote:  

@Elance Guys: I don't want to derail the thread too much--I've never used elance to get clients, though I've contemplated doing so since I've heard it can be a goldmine if you play it right--there are apparently a lot of good companies willing to pay handsomely. The problem for me is that it seems like you have to give out a few "cheapos" to get feedback on those sites. I'd really prefer not to have to lower my rates in order to build up a "rep" on a site like that, when I have an established track record and rates in real life. Don't think I haven't thought about it during slow periods--a lead source is a lead source.

Honestly, if you've got good examples and a good opening pitch I think you could squeeze in without lowering rates; it might just take a bit of time. And as they say, time is money, which is why a lot of guys just do a small quickie at a reduced rate.

But since you've got clients, there's a very simple way around all this. Just ask one of your newer clients if they're willing to take the job over to elance. Pitch it as in their benefit because the escrow system creates security for both of you, or you can even lower the price a tad (perhaps artificially) to entice them.

This all sounds more complicated and you might be hesitant to introduce another step to the negotiation process but it's really not a big deal. Just wait until you're working for a client who is a bit lost on the process of hiring a writer and mention that you'll be doing the job through elance to take advantage of the escrow system.

Chances are they won't even question it because they're looking to you to guide them anyhow. And if they do, well, it's in their best interest.

Keep in mind that you'll lose a good chunk to elance fees; just consider it the cost of opening a new marketing channel. Do a couple jobs on there that way, get the clients to leave feedback, and then you've got enough of a rep to get your start without lowering prices.

Also, here's a golden phrase to open your pitches:

"I may be new here on Elance, but I'm no stranger to the copywriting game. Blah blah blah...."

You know the drill.

[borntomack]

I wanted to bump this thread. I've been studying a lot Gary Halbert lately and I recently read his Dating Ad:

Gary Halbert Dating Ad

It's an absolute masterpiece. It was so good that supposedly he had book offers and movie deals based on the ad. He also says that he lost count on the amount of women he ended up dating because of the ad.

Go read it.

Also, on an issue of one of his Letters he wrote the following on the ad:

"You know, there were a lot of fat, ugly, "loser" women who didn't like my ad but, boy oh boy, you should see the one that did like it. You see, when I wrote the ad, I DIDN'T WORRY ABOUT OFFENDING THE "DOGS" INSTEAD, I CONCENTRATED ON SELLING THE "FOXES"

[NovaVirtu]

If anyone is looking for a good simple intro to copywriting, I've taken a few Len Smith courses on Udemy which you may find useful.

After going through a couple of these, I've decided to seriously pursue this as a career. I'm interested in more thorough training. Has anyone tried any AWAI courses? I'm reading The Well-Fed Writer now and Bowerman recommended two courses from them:

Secrets of Writing for the Business-to-Business Market &
Michael Masterson's Six Figure Copywriting course

I've heard good things about both. Worth investing in?

Any other recommendations for a beginner? I plan on going into monk mode the next few months. Nothing but writing and the gym. Any advice is appreciated.

Gracias Brochachos

[thirty-six]

I'd steer clear of paying for any online course. Here's my advice to any beginner who wants to get started in copywriting: Make a website, write some very nicely designed (get a graphic designer to do the art/layout) spec pieces that have strong/catchy "concept" for the popular industries, and network.