[JoyStick]

(06-23-2014 06:35 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

^ Let's not forget that PUAHate was shut down recently.

are you seriously comparing people here to puahate? Nobody here is denying game or is even badmouthing gll's game. We just don't believe the video is real and don't like being lied to. Is calling out a fraud video hating now?!

[Beyond Borders]

^ For one, Did you ever read PUAhate?

Yes, the tone of this thread and similar campaigns bears a very strong resemblance to some of the threads and lines of iffy logic over there. As well as threads about Roosh and Tuth on NN and other areas of the internet, supposedly "exposing" them.

These psuedo-sluething campaigns always have the same tone and lines of "logic."

You'll also notice I'm not the first one to mention the comparison.

For two, if you don't realize there was and is a cross-over of memberships between guys here and the PUAhate forum, I'm afraid you're very in the dark on a lot of the more unfortunate characteristics of the manosphere. And I can almost guarantee we've picked up even more of the members since they shut down. So don't act like I've committed some kind of sacrilege for implying that we sometimes exhibit similar behaviors and make the same mistakes.

As much as I like the RVF, we're hardly perfect.

But no, calling out a fraud video isn't necessarily hating. That's not what I see going on here though. If you see the "evidence" laid out in this thread as some ingenious exposure of a fraud, I'm afraid our brains work very differently. Because a lot of what I've seen is just embarrassing and cringe-worthy.

I'm going to bow out of this thread at this point though because I don't see it or my presence here going in a positive direction. You guys carry on.

[runsonmagic]

(06-23-2014 09:19 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I know he made other comments like this too. Very strange he tried to misdirect people here. What is being hid?

Chris broke one of the rules of witch-hunts:

Quote:

Remain in the truth. If you’re under scrutiny, don’t give your opponents a real scandal they could nail you for. Don’t lie. Never do anything illegal. Stay blameless.

It's possible he shot a real video in Idaho, but didn't want people knowing where he shot it, so he only lied about that one aspect. However, being caught in a lie - even a small one - casts doubt over everything else he says, especially when knowing that location allowed us to see where models might be cast from.

[soup]

If he is lying to us in this thread about the video it means he had no respect for us, and would then be essentially spamming us with his replies. I think that would justify a ban.

Say it ain't so, Chris. It really is up to you at this point to either come clean and try to explain yourself or prove that all the allegations of the vid being fake are false. I don't think you can just not post on this thread and expect to stick around much longer.

If I came to the forum, didn't post much and started trying to defend a promo video for an anti balding lotion that I'm selling whose vid turned out to be staged, then Id probably get booted from the forum.

If his whole vid was fake, he should have put a disclaimer on it saying that it's a demonstration and that they were actors etc.

This is all based on principle, of course. Obviously it's very complicated because he's sponsoring ROK this month.

[game_ethic]

Well, despite there being some evidence, I don't think this situation warrants a ban. It's not like he deliberately came on the forum and advertised his video. He's just defending his reputation by addressing the various claims that his video is fake.

[Moma]

(06-23-2014 10:48 AM)soup Wrote:  

If he is lying to us in this thread about the video it means he had no respect for us, and would then be essentially spamming us with his replies. I think that would justify a ban.

Say it ain't so, Chris. It really is up to you at this point to either come clean and try to explain yourself or prove that all the allegations of the vid being fake are false. I don't think you can just not post on this thread and expect to stick around much longer.

If I came to the forum, didn't post much and started trying to defend a promo video for an anti balding lotion that I'm selling whose vid turned out to be staged, then Id get booted from the forum.

If his whole vid was fake, he should have put a disclaimer on it saying that it's a demonstration and that they were actors etc.

This is all based on principle, of course. Obviously it's very complicated because he's sponsoring ROK this month.

The thing is, it was another member who posted up Chris's video.

[MikeCF]

(06-23-2014 10:19 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

These psuedo-sluething campaigns always have the same tone and lines of "logic."

Well I'm an actual attorney who has spent considerable time investigating crimes on behalf of men accused of crimes.

There is some damn good sleuthing going on here. I'm the opposite of a Chris hater. I like him personally, have linked to him many times, and Skyped with him for over 2 hours about how to handle this "scandal" and other stuff.

The evidence is inconclusive.

It all comes down to trust. Your reputation is everything.

Chris got caught up in some white lies. Don't make white lies.

If you don't want to say the location, say, "I don't want guys blowing up my spot."

If you actually hired models, don't deny it. Don't say anything other than, "Guys can believe what they want. No hate from me either way."

Or maybe PM some guys like Samseau. Be real. Say "Yeah, they are models. This was more to demonstrate to insecure men how to approach rather than make me look cool. Just trying to help guys. Would you turn down the heat?"

This is an amazing group of guys. Do you know how many guys here know my full name and all sorts of details about me? Countless.

No one ever blew me up. Guys have even written to me letting me know when I inadvertently leaked out personal information.

So you can come to people and say, "Hey, would you chill please...because between you and me, there was some reality TV aspect to it."

That said, Chris has always been transparent. The guy has posted way more pictures of himself than anyone else.

So right now, I take him on his word.

But to say this thread is junk or a hater thread is nonsense. There is some great detective work going on here.

Everyone is on notice.

Don't fucking lie. You will get caught.

Don't lie about little shit. You will be caught.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. We should all be more open (or we should keep our mouths shut.)

We all know to be more authentic and transparent and honest.

That's a huge win for the forum.

[Samseau]

(06-23-2014 11:11 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 10:48 AM)soup Wrote:  

If he is lying to us in this thread about the video it means he had no respect for us, and would then be essentially spamming us with his replies. I think that would justify a ban.

Say it ain't so, Chris. It really is up to you at this point to either come clean and try to explain yourself or prove that all the allegations of the vid being fake are false. I don't think you can just not post on this thread and expect to stick around much longer.

If I came to the forum, didn't post much and started trying to defend a promo video for an anti balding lotion that I'm selling whose vid turned out to be staged, then Id get booted from the forum.

If his whole vid was fake, he should have put a disclaimer on it saying that it's a demonstration and that they were actors etc.

This is all based on principle, of course. Obviously it's very complicated because he's sponsoring ROK this month.

The thing is, it was another member who posted up Chris's video.

Yeah, member "Monster" with who made one post in this entire thread and has one rep point. MikeCF made a good point about marketeers who purposely pay a guy who isn't a total newbie, but not established enough to cost much, to make a legitimate thread in order to promote videos.

Given the amount of bullshit detected so far, Monster may be (high likelihood) in on this too.

[Samseau]

Also, I just want to point out that Chris almost got away with this. Up until page 8, most guys were thinking the vid was a bit strange but willing to give the benefit of the doubt, myself included.

Then one random guy joined told everyone where Chris was day gaming:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-37295-...#pid760876

Pretty much blew the lid off this. What a fucking turn of events for this thread. Now that's entertainment. After that guys went to model mayhem and started digging through photos and found a few of the models, confirming many suspicions all along.

[Dr. Howard]

Being the first time I've even seen this thread, the video looks like reality TV, staged reality. That in mind I think its a good instructional video but not a good "Look at me picking up chicks!" credibility video. The good news is that I see it being pushed as product/instruction vs. credibility. For those injured that it might be fake...so is WWE wrestling.

Offense is warranted if members are being lied to though, regardless of intent...lest we forget Roosh in jail.

[Beyond Borders]

(06-23-2014 11:18 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 10:19 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

These psuedo-sluething campaigns always have the same tone and lines of "logic."

Well I'm an actual attorney who has spent considerable time investigating crimes on behalf of men accused of crimes.

There is some damn good sleuthing going on here. [...]

But to say this thread is junk or a hater thread is nonsense. There is some great detective work going on here.

With all respect, I've had some pretty up close and personal interactions with attorneys and their PIs in the past, and I've seen them make some pretty brain-boggling leaps of logic too. Either way, we'll have to agree to disagree on the above.

[MikeCF]

(06-23-2014 11:47 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

With all respect, I've had some pretty up close and personal interactions with attorneys and their PIs in the past, and I've seen them make some pretty brain-boggling leaps of logic too. Either way, we'll have to agree to disagree on the above.

Sure, but I'm not some rando or hack lawyer like you probably know. 10 years of my "thinking out loud" is available on the web for all the evaluate.

I may be a hot head, but you're going to have trouble finding anyone question my critical thinking skills or ability to analyze evidence.

[Beyond Borders]

(06-23-2014 11:51 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 11:47 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

With all respect, I've had some pretty up close and personal interactions with attorneys and their PIs in the past, and I've seen them make some pretty brain-boggling leaps of logic too. Either way, we'll have to agree to disagree on the above.

Sure, but I'm not some rando or hack lawyer like you probably know. 10 years of my "thinking out loud" is available on the web for all the evaluate.

I may be a hot head, but you're going to have trouble finding anyone question my critical thinking skills or ability to analyze evidence.

Fair enough.

Either way, my stance remains. As I mentioned earlier, my participation in this line of conversation isn't going to be productive, and I'm happy to leave these guys to it at this point. So no need for us to debate your critical thinking skills.

[speeddemon]

Was the video really instructive though?

It seemed like every approach was: weak direct opener -> pointless conversation -> effortless number close

But hey, if it works, it works

[MikeCF]

(06-23-2014 11:59 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Was the video really instructive though?

It seemed like every approach was: weak direct opener -> pointless conversation -> effortless number close

Chris' goal is to help men who are too afraid to even talk to a girl.

That's his aim. It's not for hardcore guys or even intermediate guys.

It's for the basic of the basic guys.

[MikeCF]

By the way, there's a marketing less here, too.

If I had done the video (and hired models) and it got linked to here, stay head of the message.

"Hey guys, just an FYI. This is for guys with severe approach anxiety and not for experienced guys. I know I looked sort of weird with my bandana and that's because the video is just to help guys who are afraid of even talking to girls. It's to show those guys that girls aren't going to bite your head off if you say hello. Sometimes you'll even get a number. "

Then the thread goes nowhere, because you've framed the message. It's not a pick-up video or to make you look cool. It's to help a certain segment of men (guys with severe approach anxiety) do something specific (say hi, get a phone number, walk away).

Even if guys say it's fake, so what? You've already gotten control of the message.

Always stay ahead of the message. Anticipate objections and raise and reframe them. Don't let anyone take control of the message from you.

[soup]

(06-23-2014 12:12 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

By the way, there's a marketing less here, too.

If I had done the video (and hired models) and it got linked to here, stay head of the message.

"Hey guys, just an FYI. This is for guys with severe approach anxiety and not for experienced guys. I know I looked sort of weird with my bandana and that's because the video is just to help guys who are afraid of even talking to girls. It's to show those guys that girls aren't going to bite your head off if you say hello. Sometimes you'll even get a number. "

Then the thread goes nowhere, because you've framed the message. It's not a pick-up video or to make you look cool. It's to help a certain segment of men (guys with severe approach anxiety) do something specific (say hi, get a phone number, walk away).

Even if guys say it's fake, so what? You've already gotten control of the message.

Always stay ahead of the message. Anticipate objections and raise and reframe them. Don't let anyone take control of the message from you.

Yes, it's calling out the elephant in the room.

The ironic thing is that is exactly what Chris is trying to show in the video.

[Travesty]

@soup

If you ever try to sell us fake hair regrow cream for balding I will vote for temp suspension not ban.

[soup]

Yeah that makes more sense.

That said- the example I used was based on something that actually happened. There was a guy on here trying to hawk a baldness cure.. Some guy from Canada.. And he got banned.

[Akula]

Lot of interesting points have been made here, and although some serious questions are being asked, I don't think its a 'witch hunt' per se. It's just that some things have come to light that have made many members cast doubt on GLL's responses, and for many of us there just seem to be too many things in the video that call it into question. That plus some very well-regarded, very senior members have said they think it's fake.

In addition, I think it's relevant to revisit the fact that the original post was made by a low-repped, low post member and (IMO) reeks of pure promotion (honestly go back and re-read it) as do several comments by low-rep, low post member in support of GLL.

That said, let's also keep this in perspective - it's not like GLL is on trial here for murder, or that he had some kind of malicious goal here with the video. No matter what happened I think he's truly trying to help out guys. Maybe he just used a few of these girls to help out in the video to drive home certain points (and thus fibbed a bit to us) - that would be the worst case scenario.

Moreover, it's not like the video shows him doing all sorts of big baller stuff and claiming he banged all these girls. I have no doubt this guy's got an effective form of game. Bottom line - he's trying to use his experiences to help out other guys. BUT end of day he does benefit from selling his products/videos and if he's fibbing here on even a small level it seems to me that we all have a right to question.

[el mechanico]

(06-23-2014 12:04 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 11:59 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Was the video really instructive though?

It seemed like every approach was: weak direct opener -> pointless conversation -> effortless number close

Chris' goal is to help men who are too afraid to even talk to a girl.

That's his aim. It's not for hardcore guys or even intermediate guys.

It's for the basic of the basic guys.

If his goal was to help men too afraid to talk to girls then why did he hire "models" (I'm also shocked our 2/10 WNB trolls didn't get in on them) and then make it seem effortless to get the digits then walk away. Why not go after the slop at the park or whatever what was there. That's how you teach. Real situation and this is what's going to happen.

How much money does this stuff make?

[Hotwheels]

(06-23-2014 05:09 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 12:04 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 11:59 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Was the video really instructive though?

It seemed like every approach was: weak direct opener -> pointless conversation -> effortless number close

Chris' goal is to help men who are too afraid to even talk to a girl.

That's his aim. It's not for hardcore guys or even intermediate guys.

It's for the basic of the basic guys.

If his goal was to help men too afraid to talk to girls then why did he hire "models" (I'm also shocked our 2/10 WNB trolls didn't get in on them) and then make it seem effortless to get the digits then walk away. Why not go after the slop at the park or whatever what was there. That's how you teach. Real situation and this is what's going to happen.

How much money does this stuff make?

Can make quite a lot depending on what you pimp.

You'd probably do well with your personality.

*no homo*

[Travesty]

^

The blonde dog walker from Model Mayhem that should be a female boxer with her strong face.

2/10....

still WB

[soup]

(06-23-2014 05:09 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 12:04 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 11:59 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Was the video really instructive though?

It seemed like every approach was: weak direct opener -> pointless conversation -> effortless number close

Chris' goal is to help men who are too afraid to even talk to a girl.

That's his aim. It's not for hardcore guys or even intermediate guys.

It's for the basic of the basic guys.

If his goal was to help men too afraid to talk to girls then why did he hire "models" (I'm also shocked our 2/10 WNB trolls didn't get in on them) and then make it seem effortless to get the digits then walk away. Why not go after the slop at the park or whatever what was there. That's how you teach. Real situation and this is what's going to happen.

How much money does this stuff make?

There was that short fat weird girl in the beginning and then the one wit chicklet teeth whose brother was near.

[good looking loser]

There is some stuff that is correct on this thread, but there's a lot of stuff that is incorrect.

Let me tell you what you got right and what is not correct.

Location:

- The video is in Idaho. (SoupDuJour, correct)
x I never once said the video was in Seattle. You guys ran with that based on the YouTube description and comments where it's written "Pacific NW", "(or surrounding states)". "Near to the university of Washington."

Eastside explains that here:
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-37295-...#pid761035
... that is exactly what happened.

I was vague about the location, always have been and will continue to be for these videos.

Why?
Because freaks go looking for the girls and contacting them. As has already happened.

I don't need girls mad at me, even though any footage in the public domain is fair game.

Do you know how many freaks have contacted my long-time, long-distance girlfriend on Facebook to show her my website?

Probably about 60 guys.

The second reason is --

Although this video is fine, my camera guy (1.5 guys) is not fully not board with my site and the stuff I teach.

I'm transparent about myself. My Mom was a director for the United States Marshall Service, I have a solid legal team. I have semi-automatic weapons - I'm not worried about my safety. When it concerns the privacy of other people - I take that seriously.

Girls
"Valerie"
The model mayhem of Valerie is indeed the girl in the video. Nice work.

About 20-30% of the girls I pick up, especially in club scene (LA) have model mayhem pages and representation.

The fact that 1 girl in my video has a MM page means nothing and you guys know that.
btw - it was news to me that she modeled.

What happened to her Facebook page?
I guess she took it down.

You guys relentlessly contacted her yesterday through that page and showed her the video that she was in. She's creeped out by you and me.

Leave her alone.

"Girl with Dog"
This is not the same girl.
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-37295-...#pid761244

"Jogger Girl"
This is not the same girl.
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-37295-...#pid761817

"Shy Girl"
This is not the same girl.
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-37295-...#pid761850

This is the first thread on RVF, but not the first thread that posted screenshots of my videos matched with random model mayhem profiles. PUAHate did that to me about 5 times.

This is not new to me. I make videos, I get harassed and people go looking for the girls and the people in the videos, to harass them.
This is not unique to this forum.

I stand on exactly what I said-
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-37295-...#pid758182