[VincentVinturi]

We all know about investment.

It's the idea that the more you invest your money, time and energy into someone or something, the more attached you become to getting a return on that investment.

Women are ninja masters at drawing investment out of guys. They are equipped with scary levels of dexterity when it comes to exploiting our time, energy and resources---both material and emotional.

But as men who value our precious, fleeting time on this Earth, we in turn have to become stoic samurais of divestment.

Divestment works like this: as soon as you realize that you are investing in a suboptimal situation, immediately (and I mean immediately!) walk away from that situation and cut all ties with it. And if possible, do so gracefully.

In the example shown below, Donald Trump immediately realizes that in the time Ali G is clowning him, he could have made $10,000. Trump gives him exactly a minute of his life before graciously bowing out. He immediately divests:

An example closer to home would be going on a date with a girl when logistics are terrible. That's already an investment that you're unlikely to see a return on in the form of same-night sex. (At least, much less likely than if you plan the date a 10 minute walk from your apartment.)

By even agreeing to such a fundamentally disadvantageous scenario, you're essentially throwing your time away.*

But let's say you slip up and go anyway. You're already probably not getting laid tonight which will percolate inside you and sour your disposition subtly. Not least of all because we only have ourselves to blame for investing when ROI is unlikely.

Then she shows up with her friend. If you stay, you invest even further. And now you're under pressure to buy both of them a drink lest you look cheap. (The right move, of course, is to make up an excuse and leave before investing another second of your life into such a whack scenario.)

You sit there and the friend is watching you like a hawk, just itching for you to disqualify yourself somehow. Sideburns? Ugh, disapprove. No tattoos? Beta. Works in a hotel? Loser. Believe me, she'll find a reason and pass it like a virus to the girl you're trying swoop, rendering her vagina dry before you've even had the chance to make a decent play.

Yeah maaaybe you'll wind up fucking her on a day 2 but if you don't....you'll have invested all that time, money and energy. And that will make NOT getting the cookies that much more painful...

Ideally the way to deal with these situations is to quickly recognize them and get out of dodge gracefully.

Girl wants to meet hella far from your apartment? Sorry, something came up. Another time, k babe?

Girl brings her friend? Shit! Sorry girls...I have a business call at home in 30 minutes I totally forgot. Next time!

After 45 minutes of hanging out it becomes clear that the girl you're on a date with has issues and is going to be more trouble than she's worth? Is glued to her iPhone? Is being a humorless bitch? Peace out!

The trouble is that by the time you realize you need to divest, you've probably already invested to some degree and quite naturally want some kind of return. But as soon as that realization hits, divest immediately and don't look back. Delete her texts, delete her number. In fact, block her number. Forget all about a fundamentally fraught dynamic and move forward with the opportunities that will actually pay dividends.

-------

*This subsumes you have options. Warren Buffet, THE investment guru, said that the number #1 determining factor he considers when making an investment is opportunity cost, i.e. "what ELSE could I be doing with this money?"

In terms of game, this means cultivating volume. The more leads you have coming in on the front end, the more intelligently and objectively you can dole out your time and resources. Not least of all because your judgment isn't clouded by a not-recently satisfied need to have sex.

[draguer]

I like this reasoning. Not just in relation to women, but other things you get involved with it can be important to recognize that despite what you have already put in to it (and you feel like this should be rewarded) sometimes your best option is just to walk away. Being aware of that usually means you have to remove your ego attachment from whatever it is and let logic overpower emotion.

This is really just abundance mentality and setting high standards for yourself.

[Mujeriego]

A very pertinent post. I just cut off my main girl tonight because she had turned into a poor investment for my time.

[WestIndianArchie]

This is a strategy...a mindset of a man who believes in his worth, not just a man with options. Bravo!

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

Great post! Should be the rule of thumb for every man

Especially like the idea of being preemptive versus being reactionary

[Pacesetter20]

How to deal with bad investments:

[Patriarch]

I've had the following scenario running through my head for the past couple of minutes. Say you are on the aforementioned shitty date, and she has a bad attitude, glued to her phone, etc. I get the general consensus that some guys here would just get up, say they are going to the bathroom, and hop in their car, leaving the girl with the bill. I fully support this and look forward to doing so. Now, say you drove her there. If she was a complete waste of time, would you ever leave her there and make her get a ride?

A few months ago, before I lost most of my gentlemanly qualities, I set up a date with a girl from online. I picked her up, she was clearly 30 to 40 pounds heavier. OK, I still want to eat sushi. Let me just go and buy my own food. Then she tells me she has 2 kids. Then she sits on her phone the whole night. Just curious what others would have done.

[Brodiaga]

(04-05-2014 09:33 AM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  

I've had the following scenario running through my head for the past couple of minutes. Say you are on the aforementioned shitty date, and she has a bad attitude, glued to her phone, etc. I get the general consensus that some guys here would just get up, say they are going to the bathroom, and hop in their car, leaving the girl with the bill. I fully support this and look forward to doing so. Now, say you drove her there. If she was a complete waste of time, would you ever leave her there and make her get a ride?

A few months ago, before I lost most of my gentlemanly qualities, I set up a date with a girl from online. I picked her up, she was clearly 30 to 40 pounds heavier. OK, I still want to eat sushi. Let me just go and buy my own food. Then she tells me she has 2 kids. Then she sits on her phone the whole night. Just curious what others would have done.

I would never do anything like leaving a girl to pay the bill or driving away and leaving her alone to get a cab back home, unless the girl is very rude to me. When I walked away from bad dates, I tried my best to be nice and show some respect.

[Manipulator]

I have run into this a time or two. The first time I was the nice guy. Had my drinks, made some bullshit chit chat, and then politely parted ways after picking up the tab.

I kicked myself later on though as I knew I should have handled it differently. History always repeats itself and I found myself in the same spot a month later. She was a cute blond with nice lips, just a little extra weight she hid with her angled pictures. I put my ego aside and realized this girl may have a few extra pounds but this plump gal is kind of like a moped. Fun to ride...just don't let your friends see you doing it. Instead of polite banter I sexualized the conversation(hard) and had her panties wet from talking and my rubbing her thighs under the table. After a few drinks I suggested dessert elsewhere (fatties love sweets you know). I got her in my car and pulled my cock out and that's what this bitch got for desert. Blew my load in her mouth and parted ways.

I always try and make lemonade from lemons and nutting in these sif's mouths is another way of doing so. She enjoyed the attention and I didn't go home empty handed.

[Patriarch]

This girl didn't have a few extra pounds, nor was she a sif. She was huge and had used pictures from several years earlier. But yeah, chubby girls will jump at the chance to suck your dick. It's basically a snack for them between meals. Or other snacks. Just imagine if you could genetically engineer yourself to nut vanilla cream cheese frosting.

[shotgun]

This also applies if you have some personal rules about the number of times you're willing go on a date with the girl before she puts out. For example, if you follow the three date rule, as hard as it is to walk away after all the investment you made, you definitely should do it if she doesn't put out by the third date. Erase her number, texting history, etc. Even if you lost, it means you played by your own rules, not hers, and that's what ultimately matters in the game.

[VincentVinturi]

(04-05-2014 09:33 AM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  

A few months ago, before I lost most of my gentlemanly qualities, I set up a date with a girl from online. I picked her up, she was clearly 30 to 40 pounds heavier. OK, I still want to eat sushi. Let me just go and buy my own food. Then she tells me she has 2 kids. Then she sits on her phone the whole night. Just curious what others would have done.

I call bullshit on the "I still want to eat sushi" part. Ok, maybe you did, sushi is delicious. But I mean I doubt you still wanted to eat sushi with her...and pick up the tab. Waste of resources, waste of time, no chance of a satisfying bang, and she sat through it on her phone.

I would be sooo angry at myself for all of that. I guess you were too, hence the losing your gentlemanly qualities part. ;-)

I wrote this whole section in one of my eBooks about how being a gentleman is a prima facie absurd concept. What is a gentleman, anyway?

It's this arbitrary set of rules that we must follow lest we be labeled "ungentlemanly". And who does being a gentleman benefit? Flower shops, boxed candy producers, restaurants, liquor purveyors and freeloadin' women.

But it sure as hell doesn't benefit the gentleman. His only reward is the societal pat on the head for "being a gentleman". It's so fucking stupid...George is getting upset!

(04-05-2014 09:53 AM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

I would never do anything like leaving a girl to pay the bill or driving away and leaving her alone to get a cab back home, unless the girl is very rude to me. When I walked away from bad dates, I tried my best to be nice and show some respect.

I think it's appropriate to act cold-heartedly if she's the one who ruins the date. Because a lot of times a girl will bring her best behavior to the front end of the interaction and then once you order some food or drinks or somehow invest yourself, she'll relax and let it all hang out. Whether that takes the form of busting out her iPhone or being rude or bitchy or whatever it is.

If she isn't up front about who she is and hoodwinks you into expending hard-won resources and irretrievable time on her, she can pay the bill, get herself a cab home AND go fuck her own sloppy self.

But if she's forthright and there's just an honest mismatch of interests, THEN I think it's perfectly fine to cover the expenses and write the whole thing off as a sunk cost.

(04-05-2014 10:04 AM)Manipulator Wrote:  

I have run into this a time or two. The first time I was the nice guy. Had my drinks, made some bullshit chit chat, and then politely parted ways after picking up the tab.

I kicked myself later on though as I knew I should have handled it differently. History always repeats itself and I found myself in the same spot a month later. She was a cute blond with nice lips, just a little extra weight she hid with her angled pictures. I put my ego aside and realized this girl may have a few extra pounds but this plump gal is kind of like a moped. Fun to ride...just don't let your friends see you doing it. Instead of polite banter I sexualized the conversation(hard) and had her panties wet from talking and my rubbing her thighs under the table. After a few drinks I suggested dessert elsewhere (fatties love sweets you know). I got her in my car and pulled my cock out and that's what this bitch got for desert. Blew my load in her mouth and parted ways.

I always try and make lemonade from lemons and nutting in these sif's mouths is another way of doing so. She enjoyed the attention and I didn't go home empty handed.

Nice!

(04-05-2014 11:14 AM)shotgun Wrote:  

This also applies if you have some personal rules about the number of times you're willing go on a date with the girl before she puts out.

One. But I'm in SEA so I've become spoiled.

But even back in the US my experience was that the longer I waited to fuck a girl, the less chance I had of doing so. Gotta make hay while the sun is up.

[DVY]

You say this now, but when you are 3 weeks in (w/no sex) its tough to keep this ideal.

Its a good metaphor on living life, but life aint black and white.

[xxMarco]

I agree with this theory.

But....

I've had scenarios where things weren't looking too well and I ended up closing the deal.

- I have gone on dates across town. Spit not so great game, ended up at my house for a bang.
- I have gone out at night and at very late hours pulled a Hail Mary. Last call type of thing. 4am.
-I've taken girls out to sushi end up with dick in hand. Next date is a sure bang.
-gone out solo and been rejected many times only to have the last girl of the night make out with me out of nowhere.

I'm an optimist sure. These situations have happened and they are not the norm.

When do you know you should cut your losses. There is always that small hope. That maybe. That outlier.

[Yeti]

Divestment is how I imagine many of us live our lives. If something doesn't pan out, we cut ties and have a fresh start with someone, something, or somewhere else.

I don't know, though. Does that lead to the greater happiness? Perhaps I sound like a girl when I say that, insofar as girls are more about feelings and emotions and being 'happy'.

But I think that, while following a policy of quick divestment in unsatisfactory situations may be convenient, it's not ideal, if we want to be happy in the long term.

I say that because I think that if we did that as a matter of course, we'd end up with few long-lasting friendships or relationships, which are what life is about (among other things). I think that you have to find the right balance between cutting ties with people who aren't serving your needs, and sticking with people beyond the immediate future. Have the foresight to know which people are worth hanging around for, and which aren't.

Of course, it's not easy. If a fat bitch showed up with her fat friend, I would (and have) cut ties and walk away.

Anyway, there's more to say. I shunned divestment and was probably happier for it. But for nearly all of my adult life, I have cut ties when things were not convenient. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that sometimes, you just have to dig in and be happy with the people and situations that life has brought your way.

[Rudra]

(04-08-2014 10:25 PM)Yeti Wrote:  

I don't know, though. Does that lead to the greater happiness? Perhaps I sound like a girl when I say that, insofar as girls are more about feelings and emotions and being 'happy'.

That's correct. Real men shun happiness.

(04-08-2014 10:25 PM)Yeti Wrote:  

Anyway, there's more to say. In my younger and more vulnerable years, I shunned divestment and was probably happier for it.

Why do you think that was?

The idea isn't to cut ties with solid friendships if you're friend's currently being a dick, which you understand. But if some girl you've only known for 15 minutes can't stop checking her phone - it's another deal.

It's a about keeping firm boundaries and having clear values. If she's glued to her phone, let her know you won't tolerate that - or just leave.

If you were to guess: Would this woman bring you more pleasure or pain in the long run anyway?

[LeightonBlackstock]

Excellent post Vincent.

This is the exact reason why I ran away from a girl two days ago. When I saw her, she was too short and she'd brought her friend along. I absolutely could not be bothered to waste two hours of my life on some formality which would lead to nowhere so I pretended to go to the bathroom and fucked off

[Yeti]

(04-11-2014 09:57 PM)LeightonBlackstock Wrote:  

Excellent post Vincent.

This is the exact reason why I ran away from a girl two days ago. When I saw her, she was too short and she'd brought her friend along. I absolutely could not be bothered to waste two hours of my life on some formality which would lead to nowhere so I pretended to go to the bathroom and fucked off

I got rid of a fat bitch who'd been giving me grief.

Women are giving me bad thoughts recently. Even the fat and stupid bitches act like they're the bee's knees. I'm tired of gaming them - but deep down I know that I just need to work on my game.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Great post Vincent!
Guys need to be more assertive with cutting their losses, specially when it comes to girls.

Instead of pretending to go to the washroom and to bounce, why not tell her straight up that her behaviour is unacceptable and that she is not up to your standards and get up, throw your part if the bill on the table and go? If the girl is totally different from her online pics, I'd simply tell her that she doesn't look like her pics and that she is absolutely not my type as I don't want to get anywhere fat girls. If she plays with her phone, tell her straight up to stop. If she doesn't simply get up and let her know the reason.

We need to put these cunts in their places so that they realize that guys will not put up with their crap anymore. If an increasing number of guys start doing that, it would do wonders to society at large. And indirectly, help these hogs as well since they would realize they'd need to improve their appearance both in terms of how they dress, how they behave but also, to give them an incentive to lose weight.

Few things can match the liberating feeling you get for putting a cunt in her place and by getting up and letting her know in no uncertain terms that it was her unacceptable behaviour or that she doesn't look like anything on her pics online makes it even sweeter. The expression on their bewildered face is truly priceless!

[Yeti]

I agree. My own spin: let the bitch know that her behavior is unacceptable, but do so in a calm, but forceful manner. The temptation is to be upset and tell her when emotions are triggered on a deep level.

I'd resist that temptation. Acknowledge something as a problem and it has legitimacy. Remain even-tempered, tell the bitch that she can't act like that, and walk away, no matter what she says. Stay cool, don't let her ruin your night.

[VincentVinturi]

(04-11-2014 10:21 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Great post Vincent!
Guys need to be more assertive with cutting their losses, specially when it comes to girls.

Instead of pretending to go to the washroom and to bounce, why not tell her straight up that her behaviour is unacceptable and that she is not up to your standards and get up, throw your part if the bill on the table and go? If the girl is totally different from her online pics, I'd simply tell her that she doesn't look like her pics and that she is absolutely not my type as I don't want to get anywhere fat girls. If she plays with her phone, tell her straight up to stop. If she doesn't simply get up and let her know the reason.

We need to put these cunts in their places so that they realize that guys will not put up with their crap anymore. If an increasing number of guys start doing that, it would do wonders to society at large. And indirectly, help these hogs as well since they would realize they'd need to improve their appearance both in terms of how they dress, how they behave but also, to give them an incentive to lose weight.

Few things can match the liberating feeling you get for putting a cunt in her place and by getting up and letting her know in no uncertain terms that it was her unacceptable behaviour or that she doesn't look like anything on her pics online makes it even sweeter. The expression on their bewildered face is truly priceless!

I'm on the fence about whether or not putting a girl in her place actually accomplishes anything for either party.

These days when a girl does something unacceptable that warrants leaving, I tend to look her dead in the eyes and calmly say "I'm going to go now."

Then I leave her to figure out for herself why she won't be enjoying my company. I don't want to give her the gift of drama.

If I let her have it, I'll invest more emotional energy and give her an experience. That's a form of reward.

Plus, from the few times I've told a girl off, I got red-hot angry and the negativity hung around me for hours as my mind shuffled through alternate scenarios.

All in all, my theory is that calmly getting up and going is more effective in teaching a girl a lesson and saving grace. But I might be wrong.

[Akula]

Good post. Time is the most valuable of resources for sure, and wasting time on something that is going nowhere is a big mistake.

My wing in Moscow and I had a 'backup system' of 'emergency calls' that worked a couple times for me in desperate situations where I needed to eject quickly from a date. I guess you could just fake it too...but it looked good for me to get a call and have my phone light up and then suddenly have a 'work emergency' that I absolutely had to deal with. It's a good way to back out of a situation and also spare the girl's feelings/investment as well (if you care!)).

Keep in mind that this works better in the big cities with strong late nite work cultures where it's more plausible - probably a bit trickier in Thailand I'd guess. Nothing groundbreaking here of course but always good to cut your losses quickly and move on.

[pitt]

I have been thinking about this thread a lot in the last few days, probably one of the best threads I have seen on this forum, that trump video truly exemplifies the OP idea.

Lately, I have been using this strategy more often. A girl flakes once? I am deleting her number, she didn't reply to my text about us meeting tomorrow? I am deleting her number, she comes to our date with another friend, I am walking away. It has been saving me money and time. Specially when you have other girls to bang, there is no reason to be so persistent with a new girl, actually I was going through the list of all the girls that I banged and the majority of time, they always showed interest when I was making the move, the number of girls who flaked me a lot and then I got the bang is not that high and thinking about it, it was not worth the investment (I can think of two that were worth the investment because they were straight 9.5 in my book and the sex was really good but still..)

Great post OP, it was very educational for me.

[reaper23]

another way of saying time is your most valuable resource, and thusly, your presence with a woman is the most precious thing you can give her.

[DarkTriad]

(04-04-2014 01:51 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

We all know about investment.

It's the idea that the more you invest your money, time and energy into someone or something, the more attached you become to getting a return on that investment.

Women are ninja masters at drawing investment out of guys. They are equipped with scary levels of dexterity when it comes to exploiting our time, energy and resources---both material and emotional.

But as men who value our precious, fleeting time on this Earth, we in turn have to become stoic samurais of divestment.

Divestment works like this: as soon as you realize that you are investing in a suboptimal situation, immediately (and I mean immediately!) walk away from that situation and cut all ties with it. And if possible, do so gracefully.

In the example shown below, Donald Trump immediately realizes that in the time Ali G is clowning him, he could have made $10,000. Trump gives him exactly a minute of his life before graciously bowing out. He immediately divests:

An example closer to home would be going on a date with a girl when logistics are terrible. That's already an investment that you're unlikely to see a return on in the form of same-night sex. (At least, much less likely than if you plan the date a 10 minute walk from your apartment.)

By even agreeing to such a fundamentally disadvantageous scenario, you're essentially throwing your time away.*

But let's say you slip up and go anyway. You're already probably not getting laid tonight which will percolate inside you and sour your disposition subtly. Not least of all because we only have ourselves to blame for investing when ROI is unlikely.

Then she shows up with her friend. If you stay, you invest even further. And now you're under pressure to buy both of them a drink lest you look cheap. (The right move, of course, is to make up an excuse and leave before investing another second of your life into such a whack scenario.)

You sit there and the friend is watching you like a hawk, just itching for you to disqualify yourself somehow. Sideburns? Ugh, disapprove. No tattoos? Beta. Works in a hotel? Loser. Believe me, she'll find a reason and pass it like a virus to the girl you're trying swoop, rendering her vagina dry before you've even had the chance to make a decent play.

Yeah maaaybe you'll wind up fucking her on a day 2 but if you don't....you'll have invested all that time, money and energy. And that will make NOT getting the cookies that much more painful...

Ideally the way to deal with these situations is to quickly recognize them and get out of dodge gracefully.

Girl wants to meet hella far from your apartment? Sorry, something came up. Another time, k babe?

Girl brings her friend? Shit! Sorry girls...I have a business call at home in 30 minutes I totally forgot. Next time!

After 45 minutes of hanging out it becomes clear that the girl you're on a date with has issues and is going to be more trouble than she's worth? Is glued to her iPhone? Is being a humorless bitch? Peace out!

The trouble is that by the time you realize you need to divest, you've probably already invested to some degree and quite naturally want some kind of return. But as soon as that realization hits, divest immediately and don't look back. Delete her texts, delete her number. In fact, block her number. Forget all about a fundamentally fraught dynamic and move forward with the opportunities that will actually pay dividends.

-------

*This subsumes you have options. Warren Buffet, THE investment guru, said that the number #1 determining factor he considers when making an investment is opportunity cost, i.e. "what ELSE could I be doing with this money?"

In terms of game, this means cultivating volume. The more leads you have coming in on the front end, the more intelligently and objectively you can dole out your time and resources. Not least of all because your judgment isn't clouded by a not-recently satisfied need to have sex.

Great post. And don't bother being too diplomatic, it would only be seen as weakness anyway. Do the fake call, say "Hi", a random "stripper name", smile, and then put on a fake frowny face and tell them you have an emergency and have to go. Quick painless exit, an appropriate insult, and your best odds for recovery at the same time.