[Roosh]

As in, have you banged a girl you met from salsa dancing? I've been pretty down on salsa for a while, but my dancing is getting rusty and I was thinking of taking lessons to get moving again. Just curious if guys think there are sexual benefits of salsa on top of regular approaching.

Previous salsa threads:

-Should I take Salsa lessons?

-converting Salsa/Dancing game

[daygamebrah]

I brought a plate to a salsa lesson once. The ad said "free," but of course there was a $10 cover/each for us to enter. Scam.

I don't know if I'm just that bad of a dancer, but she did LJBF me some time after that.

[Giovonny]

WestCoast is the forum expert on this. He consistently pulls the same night.

Its a sexualized way to approach and interact.

Dancing > Cold Approaching

He can break it down in as much detail as you like.

He is always preaching -- Learn to dance, build your body, dress for success.

[Tuthmosis]

Several, but never same-night. The angle, it seems, is mostly getting a number and doing a traditional date. I even got a pretty significant LTR from salsa.

That said, I think the salsa market is tapped out--or at least in serious decline--in American cities. So many dudes mined that hard, that it scared away the better talent and seriously skewed the ratios. Guys who didn't know it before will tell you that there are still girls there, but the quality has markedly declined, the bullshit (like bitch shields) has increased, and the sausage factor has grown. New cute girls still get dragged out by their one salsa-dancing friend, but don't last when they get the wave of thirsty dudes with marginal dance skills yanking them onto the dance floor. I see more girls turning down dances and sitting it out in the corner than ever. This is in multiple venues, in multiple cities.

Another piece is the rise of bachata dancing at salsa venues. In some cities, the ratio is approaching 1:1 on how much bachata gets played versus salsa. The problems with bachata is that--apart from being an entirely different dance with a different learning curve--further clams up the girls. Because it can involve a lot of (very) close dancing, chicks get tired of having boners from no-game horny dudes rubbed on them all night. By the time you come around, they're that much less open to meeting you.

I don't know what things are like in Europe, which may be trailing the US in this respect, but these are important considerations. I'm not being a negative nelly about salsa, I'm just calling the balls and strikes as I seen them.

Source: Experienced, advanced-level salsa dancer.

[daygamebrah]

Tuthmosis, is there another style that has more chicks then? Or are they not dancing at all anymore?

[thegmanifesto]

I don't really go to "salsa spots" but learning some salsa dancing has no doubt helped me swoop girls.

Salsa helps you dance better which of course is good.

Here is how I use it:

1. Approach girls normally, get them going, spit some Game.

2. Work some Cigarette Game isolation and rapport.

3. Venue bounce to a more "lively" spot with dancing (not usually salsa dancing).

4. Get some more cocktails, and dance with girl using some Salsa "moves" interspersed. This gets her primed for the close.

5. Close.

This is the way I "use" Salsa Game to swoop.

So no, I don't slug it out for hours in a Salsa Spot.

I don't have any competitive advantage there as there are going to be a grip of guys that have some skills. I don't want to play the "best salsa dancer in the room wins Game".

I want to utilize some salsa skills in a dope lounge where my modest Salsa Skills give me a big advantage over the guys who know none.

[Luvianka]

Of course! There is an immediate direct physical contact with a girl. IMHO there are more chances if you are taking regular group classes than going to a Salsa club where girls go in groups usually with relatives and cock blocking is unavoidable. By the way, Salsa open air classes are very popular these days in Eastern Europe.

[Giovonny]

I have banged girls from making salsa..

Fresh roated tomatoes or tomatillos
Fresh roasted jalapenos and serrano peppers
Onion
Cilantro
Lemon juice
Salt

With eggs and potatoes. Or, fish and brown rice.

Very vibrant. Girls like the colors.

[Ryre]

Buddy of mine uses salsa a lot, but his go-to move isn't meeting girls at salsa places. It's taking girls he meets other ways to a salsa lesson and dance as a first date. He's quite a good dancer, so for him salsa is a good first date--he's confident in the environment, it gets the physical contact going, etc. Seems he rarely fails to make out with a girl after a salsa date.

[Ensam]

Yes. Dancing was pretty much the only way I got laid before I discovered game. It's still where the majority of my hook ups come from. In my experience there are a few ways to go about it:

a) as a beginner approach other beginners. Open and game as usual. Pretty easy to do insta-dates if you're vibing well.

b) learn some basic skills and bring girls you met some place else along. Works great if you get her to park at your place so you can bounce her straight back to your pad for some post dancing drinks... Or to continue dancing etc.

c) get very good and become a regular in your scene. Instant social proof. Date the beginners and out of town dancers. If you go this route avoid dating the other regular dancers until you know the lay of the land.

d) start competing (you don't need to be good). Go to the major comps. In your region. Get a hotel room where their holding the event and invite girls up to your room for a drink. Girls at these events are super easy - but it can be expensive and time consuming to travel to them.

I think it's worth it to get better for other reasons too. I find partner dancing to be relaxing and it makes me more creative in other areas of my life. I've been doing it for 15 years now and getting into it was one if the best decisions I've ever made.

[DVY]

Learning to dance at an intermediate level already puts you head and shoulders above 99% of guys. I think its a cornerstone of "Game".

-Dancing transcends language and culture. 3/4 of my swoops internationally involved hitting the dance floor.
-Keeps you in great shape
- If you should ever settle down, have an activity that can be enjoyed by you and your significant others.

All the upside, zero downside.

[daygamebrah]

This is my dancing style.

[TheBulldozer]

Tuth:

Would you think this is the case with samba as well?

[Courage Reborn]

I put in work hitting salsa clubs regularly during my 6 years in LA.

Scene girls - They are all about the dancing. They go every week. Many do competitions. They take it seriously. I have only fucked 1 such girl. Personally I wouldn't bother with these anymore. Nearly always a waste of time. Almost never DTF unless you are established as a top dancer.

Curious newbies - These are the best types, but they are more rare to find. Every night will have a few of them. I have banged a good number after encouraging them through the basics. Never ONS though, because they only go out in big packs. Usually mixed groups. I always had to # close and make it happen on the day 2.

Lonely cougars - Like shooting fish in a barrel. Always DTF same night. Personally I do not indulge, but have had homies who would regularly bring these girls home from the club. I've had them say to me on the dance floor things like, "hard & fast baby". 1 cougar actually invited herself to my place after a dance.

Most Salsa bangs came from non-salsa girls, who I set up first & second dates at a salsa club with. Not sure I would count those as attributed to Salsa skills, but was another contributing factor among many.

Unless you are a top competitive dancer, Salsa is just another channel. Not a replacement for day, club, or online game. Top dancers definitely get mad vagina. I know because a few girls I banged from various salsa classes, I later found out they had hooked up with the instructor earlier on.

[WestCoast]

I posted a thread with my basic strategy on here. Lots on here is already correct.

Bachata in the USA = waste of time
Lots group set issues at major salsa events etc.

Basically you go to the lessons to actually learn, then when you're decent you just go to Latin themed spots that are not necessarily salsa spots. This way no one there is dancing salsa except you and the girl. Also no chance of 4 million thirsty dudes asking chicks to dance.

Salsa is best for
1) first dates - self explanatory
2) meeting girls with Latin music - one night stands here
3) at home dates where you dance

I am not an expert (intermediate for American standards) and found the bangs are more due to my process.

When you can make a stranger (random girl) "feel good" dancing with you. That's about all you need.

[thegmanifesto]

(08-26-2013 03:37 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

Top dancers definitely get mad vagina. I know because a few girls I banged from various salsa classes, I later found out they had hooked up with the instructor earlier on.

I have actually considered getting very proficient at salsa or Tango. Good enough to teach lessons.

I think this could be a very good "Twilight of a Playboy" style Game; as in playing the older, suited down, smoother type older Playboy that is surrounded by fly girls.

You are bound to take a bunch of them down even with advancing age.

[Tuthmosis]

The teacher angle definitely gives you increased access and social proof but, like everything else about the scene, isn't what it used to be, say, even 5-10 years ago. Enough "teachers" are transparently and sloppily hitting on the chicks that the word is pretty much out--especially now.

A good data point for this is Alex da Silva, once one of the most famous teachers in the country (and a guy who was quite good at pulling decent talent from his classes), getting thrown in jail for like a decade when several chicks alleged that he'd raped them. This dude was world champion several times and was even the choreographer for a national dance TV show.

The "creepy" factor from the teacher angle, in other words, is at an all-time high as a result of these kinds of cases and the proliferation of guys claiming "teacher" status. They're everywhere. Miscellaneous good dancers have shitty business cards printed up, dance with newbie, and hand them a card for a free "lesson." These guys, who are numerous, are diluting (and probably have already killed) the legit teacher angle. Add to this that most of the chicks I ever saw top teachers pulling were the horny cougars (which Courage Reborn correctly ID'd as a major demographic in the scene above).

Finally, keep in mind that getting good enough at salsa that you can teach in a competitive market like LA or NY is a huge time investment. It may be worth it if you're already quite good at dancing, and love it independently of chicks, but there are better ways to get access or social proof.

The bottom line is that salsa, while not dead, is an over-mined resource in 2013. Dudes have been riding that shit hard for over a decade, and are still piling into the clown car, while the chicks have scattered elsewhere. It may restore itself in the coming years, but don't say I didn't warn you.

[Ensam]

(08-26-2013 03:55 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Basically you go to the lessons to actually learn, then when you're decent you just go to Latin themed spots that are not necessarily salsa spots. This way no one there is dancing salsa except you and the girl. Also no chance of 4 million thirsty dudes asking chicks to dance.

This is a really key point. Do not take a girl you haven't banged yet to a salsa club.

I agree with Tuth - the salsa scene is not what is was (same is true for swing and tango) but if you enjoy dancing there's still enough girls that check it out that you can pull.

[WestCoast]

Yep when I say salsa bangs I mean you incorporate it as part of a date or a salsa music venue not a salsa dance lessons venue.

Pulling out of lessons is dying.

I am ridiculously busy this week, but one major theme I am seeing is EVERYTHING you do with American girls absolutely must seem "spontaneous, effort less and unplanned"

What I mean is don't tell bitches you are an instructor even if you are just say it's a "hobby". You don't lift weights you just kinda work out and just "happen" to look great. You don't know much about style you just happen to get the right stuff.

Basically, this movement is causing me to adjust my game.

I could write a data sheet on this movement if I had time.

Anyway most of the stuff on salsa has been answered in this thread now.

Player Tips: if you really want to try to pull from a salsa lessons class you better be dancing with the ugly ones as well. If you try and just dance with the cute one in the after class hang out and practice session you may as well have "creep" written on your forehead. In addition to really kill he guard, befriend a semi attractive girl (3-4 of them) now show up with them and again they believe you are there "just to have fun and learn".

Again I don't recommend pulling from dance lesson venues as much as salsa music venues

[aphelion]

I got heavily involved (still sorta am) in my local salsa scene for several years. Here's what I've discovered:

A) Someone here made a comment to the effect of, 'girls who specialize in one particular form of dance are usually mediocre-looking girls with a near autistic fixation on that style of dance'. After that I looked around and goddamnit if he wasn't right.

B) That being said, when an average looking girl dances really well, she becomes super hot for a minute. I've seen a 30 year old 6 magically turn into a temporary 8 when her jeans with the bedazzled butt pockets swished back and forth like a Swiffer. Or maybe I'm just a simp.

C) It's hard to game while salsa dancing at a salsa dance event. Isolation is super fucking hard because it's socially acceptable to come grab a girl and ask her to dance while she's heavily engaged with you, then the flow breaks. If she's part of the community, escalation is hard because everyone knows each other and girls generally don't want to make out with a guy in front of her friends. There's a strong part of the culture that salsa dancing events aren't a hookup spot generally, and the ones that are are usually frowned upon. I once made the observation that, 'The only salsa girls worth going after are the married ones.' They're usually there without their husbands/boyfriends, who don't like dancing and will never bother taking it, and if these girls are out and about in a dancing environment, there's a strong chance that at least some part of their hindbrain wants some side.
C1) That being said, I've gotten a few of the salsa girls with boyfriends to renege a bit, but no bangs from them. It's not worth the effort.

D) As mentioned before, learning how to dance is very useful for NORMAL club game. Taking salsa/swing/whatever, and paying particular attention to musicality and body control, is great preparation for then going to a club and spinning a girl and pulling her in and suddenly she's telling her friends tomorrow 'wow, it was so magical, he was such a great dancer I couldn't help but kiss him'.

E) It's impossible to impress a salsa girl until you hit teacher-level status. No matter how hard you work to improve your skill, you'll never be an A-level dancer to her. Chances are she's danced with the Alex da Silvas, the Oliver Pinedas, the world champion of Bumfuck Egypt Salsa Congress 2007, the guy who came in to the city to host a $100 weekend workshop and sleep on some guy's couch while doing it, the guy who was in that video that one time that she learned to stick her butt out a bit more on the 7, and the guy who isn't actually much of a dancer but does all the great photography and she'd like to be a famous model before she turns 31 so... you'll always be a B-level dancer at best. She's danced with better and she will continue to dance with better, probably every week in fact. The level of personal investment to even register on the radar for the higher-level salsa girls is out of this world. And to boot, you have to ask them to dance anyway. So now they're doing you a fucking favor by dancing with you. These days I only dance with the girls who I think will really enjoy dancing with me. And some really do - I have some local fangirls. One's 50 years old and married and I think has a bit of a crush on me. I'd still rather dance with her than some bored pixie who's going through her shopping list while I'm doing body rolls.

Being heavily involved in dance cost me about 1.5 years of near celibacy. I went out 5-6 nights a week, and chased after the wrong girls. Part of game is fishing where the fish want your bait. Which is why I quit dancing so much salsa.

That being said, I still like it and go about once a week, although mainly to see friends and remind people that I'm still a motherfucker.

[aphelion]

(08-26-2013 05:23 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 03:55 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Basically you go to the lessons to actually learn, then when you're decent you just go to Latin themed spots that are not necessarily salsa spots. This way no one there is dancing salsa except you and the girl. Also no chance of 4 million thirsty dudes asking chicks to dance.

This is a really key point. Do not take a girl you haven't banged yet to a salsa club.

I agree with Tuth - the salsa scene is not what is was (same is true for swing and tango) but if you enjoy dancing there's still enough girls that check it out that you can pull.

Also, WestCoast and Ensam here might as well be Socrates and Diogenes here on this point. I fucked this up a billion times.

[aphelion]

One more thing that I was just reminded of while chatting with a certain gentleman of RVF alignment:

Dancing events are kind of like social media. The girls stand around, a guy comes and asks them to dance. It's like a little insta-date. Or like a Facebook like. She feels good and gratified and her ego validated. 3 minutes later, she finishes the dance, some other guy comes and asks her to dance before she gets off the floor. Another date/like/whatever! And again, and again, and again. By the end of the night, her ego's been validated a billion times at the expense of all the men who came around and asked her to dance.

And that's great for her, but I noticed that a lot of salsa girls are chronically single. Now I know why - she constantly puts herself into regular mini-date situations where her ego is validated, but none are chosen. She spends a lot of time doing it, and now no guys are good enough for her because these B-level salsa guys keep coming around and asking her to dance and make her feel great (kinda like beta orbiters), and now Joe Equivalent To Her isn't quite enough of a superstar to catch her eye. And then she gets a cat.

As a rejoinder, I do another type of dance that's becoming pretty popular, and it's a pretty hippie population that dances it, with a surplus of girls, so the girls often come around and ask the guys to dance. I can sit out all night and wait for girls to ask me to dance, and by the end of the night my ego is sky high and I feel great. If I was a woman and got this all the time from salsa, I'd be a tyrant.

[thegmanifesto]

Interesting insights.

Question for the salsa heads:

Are the guys strong competition?

I mean are they strong competition outside of salsa?

For instance, I don't think I have ever seen a salsa dancer guy at my boxing gym. And I don't think any guy who has ever surfed that is also a great salsa pro.

The point I am try to make is are these guys straight up G's?

Or are they coming weak like FEMA during Katrina (outside of their salsa skills)?

[Ensam]

(08-26-2013 07:29 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Interesting insights.

Question for the salsa heads:

Are the guys strong competition?

I mean are they strong competition outside of salsa?

For instance, I don't think I have ever seen a salsa dancer guy at my boxing gym. And I don't think any guy who has ever surfed that is also a great salsa pro.

The point I am try to make is are these guys straight up G's?

Or are they coming weak like FEMA during Katrina (outside of their salsa skills)?

Besides this guy?

They're your typical awkward dudes for the most part. Most of them (myself included) got started because they had a hard time meeting girls. The best part of about dancing for a lot of guys is that you don't have to talk to the girl much while you're dancing. In my experience even the really good dancers with tons of charisma on the floor are often times social wrecks off of it. They do well with the girls in the scene but usually have a hard time pulling otherwise.

[aphelion]

I'd like to see how Roosh works a salsa club.