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05-29-2013, 07:37 PM
I understand that terrorism isn't acceptable ad you're missing the point. Terrorism is horrible. I'm not saying anything about terrorism being ok. I'm saying nothing about being a Muslim is wrong. Way more people are killed from drunk driving than terrorist attacks, yet you aren't sitting there condemning drunk drivers.
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05-29-2013, 07:42 PM
Dude, neither do almost all Muslims! That's the point! Most Muslims aren't out killing people
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05-29-2013, 07:45 PM
If you are saying Islam is a bad religion because of a small group of schmucks and should be eliminated, then by that logic, Christianity should have been eliminated back during the crusades.
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05-29-2013, 07:52 PM
Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I'm not saying anything about terrorism is ok. Those assholes deserve the harshest punishments. We both agree that terrorism and extremists aren't ok. No reason to be condescending. Alls I'm saying is terrorism in the Muslim community is the exception, not the rule.
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05-29-2013, 08:08 PM
The problem, InternationalPlayboy, is that it only takes a few to cause serious civil war.
Take, for example, the Woolwich execution or Boston Bombings. First you have a few fanatics that terrorize the non-Muslims. This then incites hated against ALL Muslims, including the peaceful ones. People then react by burning down Mosques, attacking Muslims, etc. Then peaceful Muslims are thrown into conflict whether they like it or not.
And the violent Muslims, although minorities amongst the Islamic population, will continue their violence until they succeed in generating as much hatred from the non-Islamic population as possible. Their goal is to generate hatred, and we will continue to see Islamic riots, beheadings, and bombings, until the local population hates Islam with all of their might.
At this point, the "peaceful" Muslims will have no choice but to fight back and defend themselves, and then they will be in the same group as "violent" Muslims. Thus there is no significant difference between "violent" and "peaceful" Muslims - they are both on the same team, and the violent Muslims will make sure the peaceful ones remember that.
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05-29-2013, 08:43 PM
I also think 5% is too high.
Muslims can be the most hospitable people in the world. They will take you in, feed you, make you feel like family. The vast majority are great people. I have many Muslim friends.
However, it's the Doctrine I have a problem with. The Boston bombers and the London beheaders were doing exactly what their holy books instructed them to do. There are many verses regarding slaying the infidels and slitting throats. Muhammed himself (who they are supposed to emulate) did these very same things, HUNDREDS OF TIMES.
The peaceful Muslims living next door are moderate in the sense that they choose not to carry out the Koran literally. I just wish they would speak out MORE and condemn these atrocities when they happen. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case.
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05-29-2013, 10:05 PM
The issue is that Muslims have to believe that the Koran is the literal word of God. Christians for the most part evolved beyond thinking that the Bible is the literal word of God and pretty much take it metaphorically. The ones who don't, we call fundamentalists. By this definition, Islam requires Muslims to be fundamentalists. The Koran is the word of God and Muhammed is the most perfect man who ever lived and is an example to mankind, throughout the ages. Most of my Muslim friends, even the secular ones, CANNOT view Mohammed as a political and skilled warrior who acted as his times dictated, and raped and pillaged his way through the Middle East, spreading his religion. I've had friendships break up when I bought up example of Mohammed's pillaging and invasion of tribes that did him no harm, of requiring 20% of booty of the tribes his armies conquered, his appropriation of his son's beautiful wife and ascribing it to the will of God, of marrying a 6 year old girl, of ordering the killing of a female poet who created witty poems mocking him while she was nursing her babe, etc, etc...If Mohammed was the perfect man who is an example to the world and needs to be emulated across all ages and times, well, all his nefarious, murderous deeds are rationalized as correct and necessary.
It is a political and imperialistic relgion that was spread through the sword and trade and does seek domination over other religions. Even among the more enlightened members of my Muslim friends, they are unable to out and out denounce the various terror acts that have been occuring lately. There are always attempt to deflect, evade and deny, e.g. "911 was an inside job", "those Chechen boys were set up", "Hitler was a Christian, wasn't he?", "those Jews control everything". One of my most secular Muslim friend, a well educated Pakistani, admitted that even though he agreed with most of what I said he would NEVER voice these opinions in a roomful of ordinary, devout Muslims as eally the "righteous" Muslims tend to be the religious nuts and the "moderate" Muslims defer to their Islamic righteousness.
Muslims have a persecution complex, which is rich when considering how they persecute other groups in their lands, and have a strong sense of the "ummah" worldwide Muslim community. Of course, this solidarity is only expressed to outsiders. They hate one another otherwise.
Whenever I bring up the persection of the Copts in Egypt, or the Bahai in Iran or the Ahmadis in Pakistan, each one of my Muslim friends dismisses it with a shrug - they are OK with persecution as long as it's Muslims doing the persecuting. Woe betide if it's the other way around however! Can't wear burkas? Persecution!!!
I hope this constant global scrutiny of Islam will eventually force Muslims to clean up their house. Unlikely but one can hope.
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05-30-2013, 01:52 AM
What percentage of rapes do Muslim men commit in Europe by country?
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05-30-2013, 04:19 AM
Quote: (05-29-2013 08:43 PM)AFspecOps Wrote:
However, it's the Doctrine I have a problem with. The Boston bombers and the London beheaders were doing exactly what their holy books instructed them to do. There are many verses regarding slaying the infidels and slitting throats. Muhammed himself (who they are supposed to emulate) did these very same things, HUNDREDS OF TIMES.
The peaceful Muslims living next door are moderate in the sense that they choose not to carry out the Koran literally. I just wish they would speak out MORE and condemn these atrocities when they happen. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case.
Spot on.
And Vronsky's whole post was the best post I've seen on the subject, so I'm not going to quote it all. However, I will give him a:
I too have had a friendship break apart because my questioning became too much for my Muslim friend to handle, and I couldn't take seeing him partake both in Taqiyya and Dawah in my presence.
Taqiyya is basically lying when it helps protect the religion and/or a Muslim from a non-believer. Dawah is spreading Islam (proselytizing). Often it felt as though he only hung out with me to try and convert me. And he was what many would call a moderate. He didn't drink, but he was a massive football fan etc.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H L Mencken
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05-30-2013, 02:30 PM
I fucking love Pat Condell. If he's not bashing religion, he's bashing progressives. If he's not bashing one of them, he's bashing both of them at the same time:
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H L Mencken
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05-30-2013, 03:22 PM
Islam is supposed to be religion of peace, but the Jihadists and some devout muslims are giving it a bad name! Devout muslims want the whole world to be muslims, they don't want anybody to have the freedom of choice, they just want everybody to lead an Islamic lifestyle.
Now let's talk about Jihad. Jihad means "struggle/war against unbelievers". Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization and they've never given the infidels a chance, they blew up the world trade center and did lots of other terrible things. I'm certain Islam doesn't condone killing non-believers, when it's a war both party participate, but when you blow up WTC, how is the other party participating in that war? The problem lies with the New age Islamists/ Jihadists, who believe that by getting rid of infidels they will make it to heaven and get 70 hot whores ,live happily forever, without ever needing to work.
Saudi Arabia's Padshah (King) Abdullah is a big-time hypocrite. In Saudi, you can't screw women other than your own wife, and if you do you get punished. It's even worse when the chick gets caught after having pre-marital sex, she gets stoned to death. On the other hand the damn Padshah, he gets to enjoy his own harem of "Eastern European" and other exotic women.
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05-30-2013, 05:10 PM
No! Abdullah is healthy as fuck, he is 88 and has 34 children
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06-09-2013, 03:47 PM
This thread makes me laugh. Everything that is said about Muslims right now is no different from what Americans said about Catholics in the 19th and early 20th century.
"They'll outbreed us! Because of that bible verse about going forth and multiplying!"
"They'll force the authority of the Vatican onto our democracy!"
"They're incompatible with our culture!"
"They're lazy scum who are polluting the streets with their beggary and criminal ways"
"They'll steal our women with their swarthy Roman ways!"
Hell, the second Ku Klux Klan gained its millions strong strength by bashing the Catholics as hard as they did the Negros. Even in 1960 whatever, fucking JFK had to publicly apologize and grovel for being a Catholic.
Y'know what happened? Their kids and grand-kids assimilated into the culture, the birth rates dropped due to economic realities, and the Catholics are now respected members of the community.
Those who repeat history are doomed to repeat it they say. How many more ethnic fascist movements do we need?
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06-09-2013, 04:04 PM
Your analogy is bad.
The analogy between Catholics and Prostatants is akin to Sunni and Shia Muslims.
Christianity is to Islam as to what Democracy is to Fascism.
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