[jdreise]

(02-06-2013 01:47 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

JD,
While it is true that as you put it nicely, every yahoo is in Guangdang exporting crap out of China, opportunities there are incredible. And like in anything else, the way to differentiate yourself from the competition is by offering better quality, learning the language, being familiar with the local customs of things are done and delivering more than what the clients are expecting. And that frankly is not quite hard to achieve in China where as long as you have the basics checked, it's not hard to achieve that.

I agree totally with you that the major money is in importing quality, luxury goods from overseas into China. As you mentioned, the Chinese middle class is exploding and they have money to burn. Their appetite for western, luxury goods is simply unsatiable. This is also where I will be concentrating on when I get there later this year.

You're also right that the 2nd tier cities are a gold mine. Keep in mind tough that the sheer size of cities in China are in a different league than what we may be used to by western standards. A village can have half a million people and a small town, over a million. As a matter of fact, there are over 50+ cities with a population of a million or more. Mind blowing!
China is really the wild wild wild west or rather in that case, the wild wild wild east and it's developing like crazy at a neck braking pace.

In my opinion, the best place to start is to watch the videos on the elevatorlife.com site. These guys know their stuff inside out and are down to earth.

Here are a couple of videos that address much of your comments:
http://www.theelevatorlife.com/the-eleva...-in-china/

http://www.theelevatorlife.com/the-eleva...isconnect/

When you will go back to China, which city are you going to base yourself in? Keep me updated on things as I will be very interested in how things go for you. I will return to China in the fall.

All the best man!

Thanks for the tips VP! I just watched those videos you posted and I checked out a few out a few others after reading through this thread the other day. I'll probably go through all of them in the next couple of days.

After watching the one about starting small, they reconfirmed my beliefs that you don't have to know what you're going to be doing when you first get into China. There is so much opportunity there that you don't have to be someone who invents a completely new product or strategy to get a foothold.

As far as where I might end up... I'm still researching that. When I was China 2 years ago I went to about 16 cities but I was just there to check things out as a tourist. It wasn't until near the end of that trip that I started meeting people that were doing cool things and my eyes were opened. By that point I was already in Yunnan and Guizhou provinces and had passed over some of the second-tier ports like Xiamen and Ningbo. A lot of the people I met were actually on holiday from their endeavors in the Chinese coastal cities.

Like I said, I'm not sold yet on Guangzhou or Shenzhen proper just yet. What would be the advantage of being in Guangzhou over someplace like Zhuhai, Zhongshan, Huizhou, or Foshan that (I imagine) are still in the intermediate boom stages? When I was working with the freight forwarder I processed so many shipments out of those places... there are so many manufacturers there that the place just has to be swimming in disposable income and it might be cheaper to get set up with some office or warehouse space.

I'm also interested in Fujian province. I like the fact that it's still subtropical but you have some nice mountain areas and it's less known internationally and maybe less polluted. I'm thinking access to the port in Xiamen and a better quality of life are two potential advantages. Fuzhou or Xiamen are big candidates for me as they're both about midway between Shanghai, Guangzhou and Taiwan if relations between the two Chinas ever cool. It's a shame I didn't get off the train in either of them last time I was there. Xiamen is supposed to be rather pretty and have some nice beaches.

Other than that, there is TONS (!!!) of potential in developing things in Central and Western China. I spent two weeks in Guizhou and was shocked by how underdeveloped it was. There were signs that the Chinese government has big plans for it however, as they were building a giant four lane highway directly through mountains (not going around or over them like we do in North America). Some of the lesser known areas might be a goldmine in the waiting as the money will eventually start to pour in from Beijing.

Perhaps I'll revive an old thread or start up a new one on some of these more off-the-beaten path small cities. For example, Guiyang, Guizhou has 4.5 million people... like you said VP, these places are only small in the universe that is China!

[Menace]

BTW, I know this was posted in another Chinese thread, but guys interested in China should look up a guy named serpentza on YouTube. He posts weekly videos about China, working there, living there, etc. He's in SZ. I would not take game advice from him, because as cool and decent as he appears to be, he married a middling (at best) beer girl. He has a video where he says Chinese girls are easy, but he was the one who got gamed but maybe does not know it.

[Vacancier Permanent]

JD,
What would be the advantage of GZ or even SZ over other cities? To be honest, I'm not overly qualified to answer that question since my experience in China is limited to just a little bit over a week in GZ last September. And even while in GZ, I may only have scratched a tiny tiny part of the surface. Opportunities are every where in China with manufacturers located throughout the country. From my limited understanding (and I invite all the China pros/experts to chip in and correct me here if/when needed) is that the Guangdong province is not only the richest province in China, with GZ being its capital and richest city. But also, the fact that about 50% of all the manufacturers are located within the Guangdong province, which is the manufacturing capital of the world. Add to that the fact that GZ is a first tier, international city, with very easy access to Hong Kong and that makes it a very attractive option. Which is huge not only for visa runs cost/time wise but also for the ease that it provides for the global transportation hub that HKG is.

Also, GZ being a huge city with a population of over 30 Million + (about the same than the entire Canadian population!) makes it an exciting, vibrant city full of life and things to do. And not to mention, no harsh cold winters. However, one major downside to it, IMO, is the suffocating heat from May to end of Sept. Think Vegas heat in the summer where you feel like you're walking inside an oven as soon as you step outside during the day.

Also, because it is such a big international city, it also has world class amenities way cheaper than in the western world and add to that, the fact that the city is filled with westerners doing awesome, awe inspiring stuff, that creates an environment to not only inspire you but to motivate you, to keep you going and to make killer contacts a lot easier than in a place who may have less foreigners.

I feel the best thing anyone can do when getting to China, is choose one city as their base and go explore other cities regularly, to always be on the look out for other opportunities in those smaller markets. And once you do find a city that like best, where the general atmosphere vibes and matches the best with your own requirements/personality, then make the move there. I know that my base will be GZ because I already have an established social network there and I'm going to build it from there. Whichever city you decide to go into, keep me updated as I'm also going to be investing a lot of time in China in the future. When are you going there? I'll be there in the fall. Maybe we can even meet there for the Canton Fair in October/Nov.

Vorkuta,
The guys at the elevatorlife.com are everything but selling pipe dreams. They are solid and their site is a literal goldmine. I'm amazed these guys put all these killer gems for free. I've seen paid membership sites with half the content and 1/10 of the calibre of info charging upwards of 50 to 100$/month. You can't go wrong with these guys. I love what they're doing and I'm a huge admirer of them and I'm very happy to also have them as my buddies. Awesome to see you're going there. Is that going to be purely fun, notch chasing trip or biz scouting? Or a balance of the two? I'd be very curious to hear how it goes, so please update it here on how things go when you get there.

Menace,
Yes I've seen a few of that guy (serpentza)'s videos on youtube and yeah, he's got value. You're right, not the best when it comes to the dating scene, but when it comes to living in Shenzen, he is legit. I'd like to meet that guy for drinks when I get to SZ. Too bad that doesn't have a blog cause he knows A LOT about living in China and in SZ. Does anyone know how to contact this guy other than on youtube? Not sure if he checks or responds to comments on his youtube channel. Anyone?

[xsplat]

You've got me planning on GZ instead of Shanghai now. Inspiring thread.

Anyone know what rents are like out there? And did anyone figure out the visa issue? I'll be self employed, handling most of business through the internet. It's possible a few interns will be joining me to head out there sometime this year, so a larger place, like a three floor building or similar could work. It really does sound like the place to be.

Oh, and anyone know what paperwork would need to be done if I wanted to hire employees? I'm used to the very lax regulations of Indonesia.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Rent can be had for real cheap if you are looking in the outskirts of GZ for about 150-200$/month. But keep in mind, you'd be living among the lower classes Chinese in apartments with Chinese amenities (think squatting washrooms). For nice apartments with western amenities in the nicer areas of town, you'd be looking at 300-400$/month. For something nicer and bigger, say in the Tianhe district, which is the nicest in town, you'd be looking at 500-700$/month.

For your visa question, after talking with the elevatorlife boys, I was advised to get into China on a business visa. It's not hard to obtain, just get any business in the US/Canada or wherever you're from to state that they'd need you to be in China for 1 year/2 years to source products for that company. Include that letter in your business visa application when you apply for it at your nearest Chinese consulate/embassy.

For your question about the paperwork to hire employees (are you think of Chinese employees or foreigners?). For that, I'd advise you to check with the elevatorlife guys.

You're spot on that GZ and Guangdong province are THE place to be when building a business in China. I'm happy that some guys are seeing the opportunities there and are making a move there or are at least seriously thinking about it.

[jdreise]

(02-10-2013 04:48 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Rent can be had for real cheap if you are looking in the outskirts of GZ for about 150-200$/month. But keep in mind, you'd be living among the lower classes Chinese in apartments with Chinese amenities (think squatting washrooms). For nice apartments with western amenities in the nicer areas of town, you'd be looking at 300-400$/month. For something nicer and bigger, say in the Tianhe district, which is the nicest in town, you'd be looking at 500-700$/month.

For your visa question, after talking with the elevatorlife boys, I was advised to get into China on a business visa. It's not hard to obtain, just get any business in the US/Canada or wherever you're from to state that they'd need you to be in China for 1 year/2 years to source products for that company. Include that letter in your business visa application when you apply for it at your nearest Chinese consulate/embassy.

For your question about the paperwork to hire employees (are you think of Chinese employees or foreigners?). For that, I'd advise you to check with the elevatorlife guys.

You're spot on that GZ and Guangdong province are THE place to be when building a business in China. I'm happy that some guys are seeing the opportunities there and are making a move there or are at least seriously thinking about it.

What's the advantage of going on a business visa rather than a teaching visa (Z visa)?

Since I have experience teaching, I'm assuming I should be able to get a job pretty easily that will pay for my flight and housing and give me a nice monthly allowance and insurance. I'm thinking the key for the first six months or year is just to get acclimated with the language/culture and use free time to make contacts and do some business recon.

The way I would go about doing this is to take a job with low contact hours (10 to [maybe] 20 per week) and then use the rest of the work day to do as I just stated above. I have a lot of my lessons "canned" so my teaching prep time would be rather minimal.

I'm thinking this would be a good way to mitigate the financial risk or getting started and network.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Re: advantage of the business visa versus the teaching one:
I'm no specialist but I believe the employer has a lot of say in your visa. They hire you and by doing so, are the ones who will be in control of your work visa. Say you wanted to move on either to another company or another line of work or even stop working and focus on your business, they could void your visa and this would create a bunch of problems for you. Again, I'm no expert on the matter but that's what I believe would happen. Can the China experts in here (redneckpunk, BadWolf, etc...) could chip in on this?

Quote:

The way I would go about doing this is to take a job with low contact hours (10 to [maybe] 20 per week) and then use the rest of the work day to do as I just stated above. I have a lot of my lessons "canned" so my teaching prep time would be rather minimal.

I'm thinking this would be a good way to mitigate the financial risk or getting started and network.

Yes pretty solid strategy. Most people that came to China without a big capital, started that way, including the guys from the elevatorlife. Starting that way is good not only financially but most importantly, for networking. You never know who are your students or their parents or by talking/chatting with them, they could turn out to be great contacts.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Wanted to share with you guys a very informative interview of the elevatorlife.com guys by Dan Andrews. Lots of good intel about moving to China and GZ and what it takes to make it there. I've listened to this interview a few times and each time, it pumps me up.
Enjoy!

http://www.tropicalmba.com/1mil-in-5-years/

[FretDancer]

(02-17-2013 01:04 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Wanted to share with you guys a very informative interview of the elevatorlife.com guys by Dan Andrews. Lots of good intel about moving to China and GZ and what it takes to make it there. I've listened to this interview a few times and each time, it pumps me up.
Enjoy!

http://www.tropicalmba.com/1mil-in-5-years/

Great interview! Thanks for sharing VP. I'm hoping to meet with these guys in China soon and just learn from them alot. I have a couple of good business ideas and I can already feel the opportunity and success.

Full speed ahead.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Glad you liked it! Its a great little and short interview. Awesome that its already giving you ideas. Get in touch with them they are cool and the real deal!

All the best man and keep me updated on how things go!

Cheers!

[RichieP]

Awesome documentary on three guys trying to make their millions in China:

Brits Get Rich In China

A good insight into what it takes to make it there, some of the crazy shit that goes on and also how easy it is to get shafted unless you've got some solid biz chops...

[Vacancier Permanent]

Richie,
that's an excellent documentary, a must see for anyone who's serious about China. It was posted here about a year ago by YMG and I saw it at the time and loved it. Thanks for putting it in here as it is a very eye opening watch.

[buja]

FWIW, the Elevator Life guys said in a blog post I just listened to that they would have chosen Shenzhen over Guangzhou if they had have researched more.

[qazwsx]

Vacancier Permanent,

When you mentioned theelevatorlife.com first time in this thread I saw one or two videos and well, it seemed just good for people wanting to go to China. But after so much hype from your part I decided to take better attetion to more stuff they say, and in the last days I have been watching dozens of their videos.

And, wow, really, so much information coming from them. It really make us want to leave all behind and go there to just start making some business. And the better thing is that much of their advice makes sense to young people who want to become entrepeneurs (like myself) no matter if you want to make it in China or everywhere else. It is indeed unbelievable the amount of knowledge those lads have been giving completely for free.

So, I'm writing this post just to express my gratitude to you for insistently recommending the theelevatorlife.com. It has been a motivation.

[Vacancier Permanent]

qazwsx,
I'm glad you're enjoying the info on the elevatorlife site. I've been there and met them in person and hung out with them, saw them in action, met their contacts and partied with them. They are definitely legit and are everything but hype. I'm also amazed at the quality of info that they are giving out for free. The fact that they're giving out so much valuable info for free is only a testament to them being the real deal. I've been telling anyone that's not only looking to go to China but also anyone looking for a better option to make it out there, about them, even my own family and relatives. Would I do that if they were hype and fake?

I highly encourage anyone, whether they are going to China or not, to watch their video if only just to have their minds expanded on the endless possibilities in China. Their moto, says it all: "lose the ladder, take the elevator", the ladder being the painstakingly slow way to the top in the Western world in the corporate world taking decades to reach the top while in China, you get into the elevator to success and hack your way to to the top in 3-5 years. China is as real as it gets guys!

Btw, nice avatar! Serge was a legend.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Yeah Shenzen is also a great option as it's right next door to Hong Kong (about a 25 minute metro ride each way). I will spend some time in SZ too as I have contacts there to see where I would want to set up base. But either way, whether you opt for GZ or SZ, you won't go wrong, they're both top class 1st world cities with amazing opportunities and an unbeatable location right in the heart of the business action.

Also, it's very important that each and everyone in here does their own due diligence and spend some time in at least 3-5 cities and see which one fits best to their needs and requirements. And the beauty about China is that there are a lot of options as far as cities to set up shop.

(02-21-2013 02:45 PM)buja Wrote:  

FWIW, the Elevator Life guys said in a blog post I just listened to that they would have chosen Shenzhen over Guangzhou if they had have researched more.

[buja]

Hi Vacancier Permanent,

I also want to thank you for turning us on to The Elevator Life.
I haven't been to China since 99 but I'm going this year to Hong Kong, Shenzhen, and most likely Guangzhou.

I'm interested in importing consumer products from China to South America.

The first product that comes to mind is Victoria's Secret style bras and panties...the women are crazy for those things down there.

I'm sure there are other products with higher margins though.

I'm going to start banks accounts while I'm there.

Do you have any recommendations of anyone I should meet while I'm there?

[Vacancier Permanent]

Buja,
You're welcome man. Regarding specific contacts for when you get there, the best place to start as mentioned throughout this thread is to get in touch with Nick and Tim from theelevatorlife.com they are cool and super knowledgeable and their network is is top notch. Can't go wrong with contact them.

Good luck!

[OSL]

I've got a friend in Hawaii who grew up partially in Taiwan/Shanghai/California. Half Chinese and basically just bums around blazing and playing Starcraft in Oahu.

He sets up shopping tours for rich Mainland Chinese tourists who swing through the island to buy gifts to bring back home. Chinese tourists will come and live at the shittest hotels and eat ramen noodles for a week straight but drop $30K USD on gucci bags, red coral gifts, and other things they can bring home. He pockets like $5K in a week's work from commissions in these shopping tours. He then promptly spends it on pot, partying, and in-game purchases in his multiplayer RPG games - waiting to be set up with the next wave of tourists.


It's a huge status symbol for Chinese to have traveled abroad and brought back gifts. It's not about altruism, it's about "mianzi" - giving and receiving "face" - basically meaning that they can show to their compatriates that they have arrived and fully entered the middle or upper class.

When thinking about the China opportunity, don't forget that millions of them are increasingly wealthy and clambering to get out of the country and explore opportunities abroad - particularly in shopping tours, biz/investment trips, and scouting better education and private schools for their children.

Outbound Chinese tourism is the current and future juggernaut trend in tourism that will shape the industry. In grand central and penn station, or any machine where you can buy subway tickets in Manhattan, you'll see that the languages available always include Chinese, Korean, and Japanese (I think).

I feel like continental Europe is where you can scout more opportunities in this general area. Paris, Milan, Zurich, etc.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Excellent input YMG and totally agreed with you that as the middle classes in China increase and their disposable income increases, travel is where they will spend a big chunk of it. Finding ways to monetize on that market is going to be huge and extremely lucrative. Well said! Good to see you contribute to this topic man!

[Menace]

<deleted>

[Vacancier Permanent]

Update of an awesome success story:

You guys remember my friend Ryan from http://www.theelevatorlife.com/the-eleva...n-watches/

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1173...nless-stee

Well, last week, he launched his first product, grain watches and made a cool 100Gs in that 1 week. You read that right, $100,000 in the first week of launching his product. I'm blown away and very happy for him as he deserves it since he worked his ass off in that project the last few months.

Guys, this is a prime example of what China can do to you if you're there, working closely with your manufacturer, with the right crowd and above all, if you're focused and don't let distractions come into your way (both girls and most importantly, other opportunities while there).

China here I come...

[FretDancer]

(03-04-2013 02:04 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Update of an awesome success story:

You guys remember my friend Ryan from http://www.theelevatorlife.com/the-eleva...n-watches/

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1173...nless-stee

Well, last week, he launched his first product, grain watches and made a cool 100Gs in that 1 week. You read that right, $100,000 in the first week of launching his product. I'm blown away and very happy for him as he deserves it since he worked his ass off in that project the last few months.

Guys, this is a prime example of what China can do to you if you're there, working closely with your manufacturer, with the right crowd and above all, if you're focused and don't let distractions come into your way (both girls and most importantly, other opportunities while there).

China here I come...

Wow, $100,000 in pure profit? Either way, that is really amazing! The watches are really nice. I'm not a watch guy actually but I would really like wearing one of these.

VP When are you planning on hitting China again?

[Vacancier Permanent]

It's 100Ks in sales in about a week for a brand new product. Simply unreal. I'd guestimate about 30-40% to be profits which still isn't too shabby for 1 week hey? Yeah the watches are awesome. I'm about to order all 3 of them as they are dope. I fully expect these watches to take the world by storm and be around the world in every retail store by the end of the year!

All this was done by being on the ground, attending the Canton Fair to get ideas, doing the necessary research and getting to work, sticking to it, with total and full commitment and concentration. That's why it's vital to go to China with a capital of about 30K to be able to live there for at least a year or 2 and make contacts, building a network, building a mutually beneficial relationship with one or 2 manufacturers and getting to work closely with them. And above all, not getting distracted by other shiny opportunities being thrown at you literally daily. This is going to be the hardest part as it's literally raining opportunities there!

I will try to catch up with Ryan over the next week or so and will post here some pointers and tips on how he achieved that from A to Z. Stay tuned and start planning to make it to China guys!

[jdreise]

VP,

What was your impression of Dongguan?

I've been looking at that as a good option to set up in. From what I've read, it's big and sandwiched in between Shenzhen and Guangzhou with an enormous manufacturing sector and good infrastructure.

I'm not sure I want to be in Shenzhen or Guangzhou. It's my gut that with some social maneuvering and basic comprehension of the language, it would be more advantageous to be outside of the "foreigner zones."

Since you interviewed there I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...