How are girls with English in the area compared to the rest of China?
Hong Kong & Guangzhou
Nice place VP, I think 35 bucks a nice is a very good deal for your time of stay. Looking forward for those sheets!
Vicious,
Can't really answer that question as I was only in Guangzhou so no idea how the English speaking girls are in other parts of China compared to GZ. I'll leave that for the more experienced China hands here to answer. What I can tell you is that in a city that big, with almost 20 million people, there are a lot of girls with decent to excellent English skills. What I did was pipeline online prior to my trip and met one girl, who was hot but who barely spoke any English. However, her younger friend spoke good English and she was cute and through them, met a bunch of their friends, ranging from cute to a couple of stunners. One of which I'm still in touch me and who was and is heavily into me. I'll go as far as saying that if one were to spend a month or more in GZ, it can be a real pussy paradise. I am not kidding.
Can't really answer that question as I was only in Guangzhou so no idea how the English speaking girls are in other parts of China compared to GZ. I'll leave that for the more experienced China hands here to answer. What I can tell you is that in a city that big, with almost 20 million people, there are a lot of girls with decent to excellent English skills. What I did was pipeline online prior to my trip and met one girl, who was hot but who barely spoke any English. However, her younger friend spoke good English and she was cute and through them, met a bunch of their friends, ranging from cute to a couple of stunners. One of which I'm still in touch me and who was and is heavily into me. I'll go as far as saying that if one were to spend a month or more in GZ, it can be a real pussy paradise. I am not kidding.
Didn't want to start a new thread so I'm posting it here as it's quite relevant to the topic. An awesome video of Guangzhou to give you guys an idea of what this awesome city is like. The only thing I didn't like there was the oppressive heat when I as there. From what I heard, from May to end of September, it is very very humid and hot, think Vegas like in the summer. Other than that, a fabulous city in every aspect. Enjoy the video:
http://vimeo.com/53043267
http://vimeo.com/53043267
VP,
Would you ever recommend going to China w/o a University Degree in order to take a shot at some business ventures? Been very interested within import and export businesses lately and I could possibly come up with some cash in order to finance the Businesses but wouldn't wanna take a shot if the Degree was necessary for people too look twice.
Thanks in Advance.
Would you ever recommend going to China w/o a University Degree in order to take a shot at some business ventures? Been very interested within import and export businesses lately and I could possibly come up with some cash in order to finance the Businesses but wouldn't wanna take a shot if the Degree was necessary for people too look twice.
Thanks in Advance.
Prodigy,
A uni degree while nice has never been a pre-requisite to getting into a biz in China or anywhere on the face of this planet. As a matter of fact, I don't have a Uni degree myself. Did 2 years in IT which was a total waste since in those 2 years, all we did was to study the importance and role of computers throughout History. I might have been young and naive at the time but I knew enough to call BS when I saw one and cut my losses.
So yeah, don't let not having a Uni degree deter you from going to China. When you get to China, the most important thing will be cash, followed by contacts or as they say in Chinese, guanxi connections/network. Cash is king as the saying goes and even more so there. If you go for biz, then the best place to be is in the Guangdong province, in the south which is the richest province in China, which itself is about to become the richest country in the world. And the Guangdong province is where about half of the world's manufacturers are located.
In Guangdong, you have Guangzhou (GZ) and Shenzen (SZ), 2 world class cities. And Hong Kong is right next door. Heck a short 30 minute subway ride takes you to HK from SZ. From GZ, it's a short and comfortable 2 hour train ride. Another reason why GZ and Shenzen are ideal places to base yourself at is when you need to do a border run, there are plenty of cheap flights to nearby South East Asian countries courtesy of Air Asia![[Image: wink.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/wink.gif)
. Or you could just spend a fun and wild weekend in HK, probably the most exciting city in the world.
So all in all, a uni degree is NOT needed at all if you're going to China for business. And if you want to hear my personal advice, is save that Uni tuition and instead of paying some overpriced course for a useless BA in North America, take that dough and use it to live and build a real business in China. This way you'd get a faaar bigger return on your money than sitting in a classroom for some general Business Administration course. With about 20k$, you have plenty to last you a full year in GZ (which is the most expensive place in all of China) living a very comfortable lifestyle. I'd venture even as far as saying that living in say GZ or SZ with a bankroll of about 20k for a year, you'd have a much higher quality of life and far more fun lifestyle than anything you could ever imagine in Canada or the US.
Going to GZ/SZ for a year or two or ten, you would gain infinitely more than any BA could ever deliver. And you'd learn Mandarin, which is going to be huge. Real world first hand experience in China is going to be infinitely more valuable and rewarding to you than any Uni course/degree ever! The only reason I could think of that a uni degree would be required is if you were to go there to teach English. And China being China, there are still ways around it... lol So the answer to your question as to whether a uni degree is required to get into a biz in China, the answer is a big fat and emphatic NO!
Hope this helps. I would also wholewheartedly advise you to get in touch with the guys from theelevatorlife.com These guys are the real deal and are very down to down to earth and know their stuff inside out and are very helpful.
What kind of business do you have in mind?When you do plan on going to China?
A uni degree while nice has never been a pre-requisite to getting into a biz in China or anywhere on the face of this planet. As a matter of fact, I don't have a Uni degree myself. Did 2 years in IT which was a total waste since in those 2 years, all we did was to study the importance and role of computers throughout History. I might have been young and naive at the time but I knew enough to call BS when I saw one and cut my losses.
So yeah, don't let not having a Uni degree deter you from going to China. When you get to China, the most important thing will be cash, followed by contacts or as they say in Chinese, guanxi connections/network. Cash is king as the saying goes and even more so there. If you go for biz, then the best place to be is in the Guangdong province, in the south which is the richest province in China, which itself is about to become the richest country in the world. And the Guangdong province is where about half of the world's manufacturers are located.
In Guangdong, you have Guangzhou (GZ) and Shenzen (SZ), 2 world class cities. And Hong Kong is right next door. Heck a short 30 minute subway ride takes you to HK from SZ. From GZ, it's a short and comfortable 2 hour train ride. Another reason why GZ and Shenzen are ideal places to base yourself at is when you need to do a border run, there are plenty of cheap flights to nearby South East Asian countries courtesy of Air Asia
. Or you could just spend a fun and wild weekend in HK, probably the most exciting city in the world. So all in all, a uni degree is NOT needed at all if you're going to China for business. And if you want to hear my personal advice, is save that Uni tuition and instead of paying some overpriced course for a useless BA in North America, take that dough and use it to live and build a real business in China. This way you'd get a faaar bigger return on your money than sitting in a classroom for some general Business Administration course. With about 20k$, you have plenty to last you a full year in GZ (which is the most expensive place in all of China) living a very comfortable lifestyle. I'd venture even as far as saying that living in say GZ or SZ with a bankroll of about 20k for a year, you'd have a much higher quality of life and far more fun lifestyle than anything you could ever imagine in Canada or the US.
Going to GZ/SZ for a year or two or ten, you would gain infinitely more than any BA could ever deliver. And you'd learn Mandarin, which is going to be huge. Real world first hand experience in China is going to be infinitely more valuable and rewarding to you than any Uni course/degree ever! The only reason I could think of that a uni degree would be required is if you were to go there to teach English. And China being China, there are still ways around it...
lol So the answer to your question as to whether a uni degree is required to get into a biz in China, the answer is a big fat and emphatic NO!Hope this helps. I would also wholewheartedly advise you to get in touch with the guys from theelevatorlife.com These guys are the real deal and are very down to down to earth and know their stuff inside out and are very helpful.
What kind of business do you have in mind?When you do plan on going to China?
Quote: (12-11-2012 02:09 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:
Prodigy,
A uni degree while nice has never been a pre-requisite to getting into a biz in China or anywhere on the face of this planet. As a matter of fact, I don't have a Uni degree. Did 2 years in IT which was a total waste since in those 2 years, all we did was to study the importance and role of computers throughout History. I might have been young and naive at the time but I knew enough to call BS when I saw one and cut my losses.
So yeah, don't let not having a Uni degree deter you from going to China. When you get to China, the most important thing will be cash, followed by contacts or as they say in Chinese, guanxi connections/network. Cash is king as the saying goes and even more so there. If you go for biz, then the best place to be is in the Guangdong province, which is the richest province in China, which is soon to become the richest country in the world. And the Guangdong province is where about half of the world's manufacturers are located. In Guangdong, you have Guangzhou (GZ) and Shenzen (SZ), 2 world class cities. And Hong Kong is right next door. Heck a short 30 minute subway ride takes you to HK from SZ. From GZ, it's a short and comfortable 2 hour train ride. Another reason why GZ and Shenzen are ideal places to base yourself at is when you need to do a border run, there are plenty of cheap flights to nearby South East Asian countries. Or you could just spend a fun and wild weekend in HK, probably the most exciting city in the world.
So all in all, a UNI degree is not needed at all if you're going to China for business. And if you want to hear my personal advice, is save that Uni tuition and instead of paying some overpriced course for a useless BA in North America, take that dough and use it to live and build a real business in China. This way you'd get a faaar bigger return on your money than sitting in a classroom for some general Business Administration course. With about 20k$, you have plenty to last you a full year in GZ (which is the most expensive place in all of China) living a very comfortable lifestyle. I'd venture even as far as saying that living in say GZ or SZ with a bankroll of about 20k for a year, you'd have a much higher quality of life and far more fun lifestyle than anything you could ever imagine in Canada or the US.
Going to GZ/SZ for a year or two or ten, you would gain infinitely more than any BA could ever deliver. And you'd learn Mandarin, which is going to be huge. Real world first hand experience in China is going to be infinitely more valuable and rewarding to you than any Uni course/degree ever!
Hope this helps. I would also wholewheartedly advise you to get in touch with the guys from theelevatorlife.com These guys are the real deal and are very down to down to earth and know their stuff inside out and are very helpful.
What kind of business do you have in mind?When you do plan on going to China?
Wow, thanks for the great insight, ill +1 after I do write this reply.
Well I'm currently in school now doing a degree in business, but I've more or less just started on that. I've been thinking lately though that maybe Uni (I'm sure this is typical dropouts talk but whatever) is not the place I should be. After reading 4 Hour Work Week for the first time currently, I feel I should probably think about taking a shot at something I really wanna do now. Realistically I guess I could be over there within the next 2 months if needed or I want too, but I'm just weighing the options now. Glad that people will not look at you differently due too degrees etc. because I know sometimes that helps with raising capital in start-ups etc. seeing that you have some history behind yourself.
The main Business idea that dragged me into this recently was Importing and Exporting but after talking with my Dad a bit he suggested I speak to some of his friends in the industry with a history of global trade etc. and that is opening me up to a whole new set of options.
Funny to think I almost could of been in Alberta with you now had it not been for a very quick decision to come to University in the first place. How are things going for you out there by the way? I've heard their is somewhat of a shortage of work lately from close friends in Grande Prairie.
Anyways, I'm nearing the Break after exams next week and ill head home and see if I can make a go at this within the next couple months logically speaking, and see if I can raise a decent capital as well for future ventures in Global Markets.
Hope to meet you in China in the new year.
Prodigy,
No worries man.
In China and Asia, they do value highly education. However, the only way your education and degrees would come into playing a role is when you are applying for a traditional JOB there. For someone like you or me going there to do business, the only thing that matters is the ability to keep focused despite all the very tempting temptations ( not only the uber sexy and feminine Chinese girls but also foreign talent but most importantly, the myriad of opportunities there being presented and thrown your way) is to stay focused on one project till it gets to becoming profitable before venturing into another idea/project/biz.
Speaking of the many ways of doing biz in China, go over at theelevatorlife.com and download their free ebook on the various ways of making money in China. That alone will get your head spinning faster than an F1 car...
Another major advantage of going to China is the calibre of people you will meet there would be almost impossible in Canada unless you were already in that kind of circles. I'm talking about being able to meet, have a drink and pick the brains of super successful entrepreneurs who have been living and or doing biz in China for years and these are guys who are very friendly and helpful. You don't know who the guy sitting next to you at the bar or the guy you're playing pool with. I would also recommend you to be striking a conversation with the westerners you see there.
Most people there are there for business and are doing anywhere from great to extraordinary things there. And they are quite happy and willing to answer your questions, help you and some will even take you under their wings. I met one such very successful entrepreneur on the elevator my first night. He was not only very kind to meet me at a later day for drinks where I grilled him with questions to which he answered openly but also was generous enough to allow me to tag along the next day to meet his suppliers at the leather market to see how real business is done in the real world. And I'm still in touch with this guy and each time he asks me if there is anything he can help me.
Meeting guys like this will inspire you and these guys are there to keep each other going. There's saying that goes "you are the sum of the 5 people you spend the most time with". Well in GZ, it wouldn't take long before you can surround yourself with 5-6 or 10 or more very successful western entrepreneurs and you being with them, you would learn a ton and be inspired like crazy to make it happen.
As for me, I'm now back in Boretown as the timing for me wasn't the best when I got to E town back in Oct. I'm taking a course in Jan here and with that, I can more easily find a good paying gig when I return to AB in the spring.
If you go to China in the new year, keep in mind that around Feb, China is pretty much dead as it's around the Chinese New Year. If you want to experience that, awesome. If not, get there by March, just in time for the Canton Fair (the biggest trade fair in the world) which is held twice a year, from mid April to mid May and from mid Oct to mid Nov. However, be warned, during Canton Fair, prices for accommodations go through the roof. So get there in late Feb/early March and sign a lease contract for an apart for 6-12 months if you don't want to be paying crazy amounts for hotels when the Canton Fair comes to town.
No worries man.
In China and Asia, they do value highly education. However, the only way your education and degrees would come into playing a role is when you are applying for a traditional JOB there. For someone like you or me going there to do business, the only thing that matters is the ability to keep focused despite all the very tempting temptations ( not only the uber sexy and feminine Chinese girls but also foreign talent but most importantly, the myriad of opportunities there being presented and thrown your way) is to stay focused on one project till it gets to becoming profitable before venturing into another idea/project/biz.
Speaking of the many ways of doing biz in China, go over at theelevatorlife.com and download their free ebook on the various ways of making money in China. That alone will get your head spinning faster than an F1 car...
Another major advantage of going to China is the calibre of people you will meet there would be almost impossible in Canada unless you were already in that kind of circles. I'm talking about being able to meet, have a drink and pick the brains of super successful entrepreneurs who have been living and or doing biz in China for years and these are guys who are very friendly and helpful. You don't know who the guy sitting next to you at the bar or the guy you're playing pool with. I would also recommend you to be striking a conversation with the westerners you see there.
Most people there are there for business and are doing anywhere from great to extraordinary things there. And they are quite happy and willing to answer your questions, help you and some will even take you under their wings. I met one such very successful entrepreneur on the elevator my first night. He was not only very kind to meet me at a later day for drinks where I grilled him with questions to which he answered openly but also was generous enough to allow me to tag along the next day to meet his suppliers at the leather market to see how real business is done in the real world. And I'm still in touch with this guy and each time he asks me if there is anything he can help me.
Meeting guys like this will inspire you and these guys are there to keep each other going. There's saying that goes "you are the sum of the 5 people you spend the most time with". Well in GZ, it wouldn't take long before you can surround yourself with 5-6 or 10 or more very successful western entrepreneurs and you being with them, you would learn a ton and be inspired like crazy to make it happen.
As for me, I'm now back in Boretown as the timing for me wasn't the best when I got to E town back in Oct. I'm taking a course in Jan here and with that, I can more easily find a good paying gig when I return to AB in the spring.
If you go to China in the new year, keep in mind that around Feb, China is pretty much dead as it's around the Chinese New Year. If you want to experience that, awesome. If not, get there by March, just in time for the Canton Fair (the biggest trade fair in the world) which is held twice a year, from mid April to mid May and from mid Oct to mid Nov. However, be warned, during Canton Fair, prices for accommodations go through the roof. So get there in late Feb/early March and sign a lease contract for an apart for 6-12 months if you don't want to be paying crazy amounts for hotels when the Canton Fair comes to town.
Great input VP, always love to read your posts, specially about China!
vacancier,
if you book now there are a few hotels that havent put up their canton fair rates yet. i booked a few weeks ago and got a 4 star for 65/nt.
if you book now there are a few hotels that havent put up their canton fair rates yet. i booked a few weeks ago and got a 4 star for 65/nt.
What's the visa situation?
How about for foreigners working online?
How about for foreigners working online?
Beyond All Seas
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
I've been wondering the same BB. I'm going to check with my contacts and will post the answer.
im in GZ right now on a monday night, outside the 2 main shopping streets everything seem dead but will be leaving before thursday. I approached a girl and got a deer in the headlights response but still talked to me for a bit. then again im a chinese guy speaking mandarin so I dont have the foreign factor. From what I understand chinese guys dont game which is a pity. the talent and numbers are off the charts, the shopping streets are a goldmine for good targets.
I highly recommend the documentary made by British historian Niall Ferguson (Harvard Professor and author of other documentaries and books, notably "The Ascent of Money" - here and here). It's called "China: Triumph and Turmoil":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKyY0u8AJ...brxu1o20GG
[Unfortenately, I didn't manage to find the third episode in youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKyY0u8AJ...brxu1o20GG
[Unfortenately, I didn't manage to find the third episode in youtube]
Quote: (01-21-2013 12:09 PM)qazwsx Wrote:
I highly recommend the documentary made by British historian Niall Ferguson (Harvard Professor and author of other documentaries and books, notably "The Ascent of Money" - here and here). It's called "China: Triumph and Turmoil":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKyY0u8AJ...brxu1o20GG
[Unfortenately, I didn't manage to find the third episode in youtube]
+1
I saw the series on UK tv,was fascinating and well worth watching.
Awesome thread VP,just read it from start to finish and it has everything: foreign travel to exotic locations,good looking women,business epiphanies... That is what every trip should be about!
Where is your head at at the moment in regards to returning and kicking off some business ideas and maybe nailing the language?
I was in off the beaten track North China for three months back in 2002 and I had an absolute blast! China is without a doubt my favourite Asian country. Best food,best women,cool people and opportunities galore. I was offered work all the time from modelling underwear in adverts to working in a nuclear plant. If you nailed Mandarin you could get into something decent over there. I considered studying Chinese at a university over there,the prices were/are ridiculously cheap like $1500 USD for a years tuition in the backwoods. Life took me in another direction but I've always had a soft spot for the place and would love to go back at some point to see how things have changed. If you want the hottest women in China then ( imo ) check out Sichuan province. Not the tallest but perfect little porcelain doll type chicks,had some great times.
I have the option of a free month in March if I want it and this thread has given me the itch to hit China again. Damn!
Awesome documentary indeed. Finished watching the first 4 parts of the first episode. Very informative! Thanks for posting it qazwsx.
Vorkuta, indeed China is a whole different beast in every aspect. I also can't wait to return there. Where in China were you in that first stint that you mention? Were you teaching English or traveling? After watching that documentary, I'm also itching to start learning Mandarin again. For me, after the Siberia/Russia project, it's straight to China!
Vorkuta, indeed China is a whole different beast in every aspect. I also can't wait to return there. Where in China were you in that first stint that you mention? Were you teaching English or traveling? After watching that documentary, I'm also itching to start learning Mandarin again. For me, after the Siberia/Russia project, it's straight to China!
How were the girl's teeth in Guangzhou? I don't remember one way or another when I went to Beijing, but I always see more mangled dentition in Taipei than I would like.
Do the young people (re: girls) speak Cantonese or Mandarin, i.e. which is more hip?
Do the young people (re: girls) speak Cantonese or Mandarin, i.e. which is more hip?
#NoSingleMoms
#NoHymenNoDiamond
#DontWantDaughters
I didn't notice anything wrong with the girls' teeth to be honest. While technically GZ is in Canton territory thus Cantonese speaking, everyone there spoke Mandarin. I'm sure most people speak both, also depending on from where in China they are from. Best bet is to speak in Mandarin.
I read that Cantonese is more spoken within old people (native of Canton). But considering that in the last decades the region received millions of migrants coming from the rural provinces, Mandarin became even more spoken than Cantonese. So it doesn't even worth the effort to learn Cantonese, go directly to Mandarin.
VP,
are you going to be in GZ during the Canton Fair?
are you going to be in GZ during the Canton Fair?
Quote: (01-21-2013 03:01 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:
Vorkuta, indeed China is a whole different beast in every aspect. I also can't wait to return there. Where in China were you in that first stint that you mention? Were you teaching English or traveling? After watching that documentary, I'm also itching to start learning Mandarin again. For me, after the Siberia/Russia project, it's straight to China!
Yes I was teaching English kids in a private school in a city called Linyi in Shandong Province. Because of a huge wholesale market there the city was swimming in cash. The owner of my school was mega loaded but seemed to lack sound business acumen and was into building huge vanity projects. For example he built big modern hotel next to the school,really classy place but he built it in the industrial suburbs so nobody ever stayed there. He then built about 30 big beautiful houses on a plot of land opposite the school but he built so many on such a small piece of land that none of them had gardens of any kind so you'd be looking out of your window into the neighbours lounge. They were on the market for about $250,000,I think he sold three in the end since they were so badly designed. He then built a whole street called 'Europe Street' near the school. Grand buildings that looked European,he envisioned some kind of cafe culture developing,and restaurants and boutiques but it was too far out of town so the only people who rented these large buildings were the mafia who turned them all into brothels and karaoke bars. The local government closed them all down eventually and that was the start of the end. The school went under as did his other projects. Another footnote in the history of Chinese capitalism.
I might come down to China with you after Siberia VP,if I have time. Would be good to have a look around again.
Quote: (01-21-2013 04:53 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:
I didn't notice anything wrong with the girls' teeth to be honest. While technically GZ is in Canton territory thus Cantonese speaking, everyone there spoke Mandarin. I'm sure most people speak both, also depending on from where in China they are from. Best bet is to speak in Mandarin.
Excellent; thanks.
Second-tier China is on my high list.
What were the grooming habits of the girls there? East and Southeast Asian girls often sport non-immaterial amounts of pubic hair, of which I'm not particularly fond.
#NoSingleMoms
#NoHymenNoDiamond
#DontWantDaughters
Hey VP
Sounds like GZ has really lit a fire under you, good for you.
Just some insights for you and anyone else planning on studying Mandarin from scratch - My mother tongue is English and I have a decent amount of experience studying languages. I did a 22 hour per week course at a university in China for 8 months and was more or less disappointed with my results. These are my observations:
- If your mother tongue is English and you have no knowledge of a Chinese related language (e.g. Japanese, Cantonese) then don't expect rapid progress with learning Mandarin in the university environment. One can near fluency in Spanish in an intensive 6 month course (I had already reached the second highest level at my language school after 4 months), whereas with 6 months in Chinese people will typically only be just getting comfortable with having a conversation. You will find the Japanese and Cantonese speakers will naturally progress much faster than you, this is normal. Similar to when an American and Japanese both are learning Spanish, you don't need to look up "fotografia" in your dictionary, he does.
- There is a strong focus in university language programs on reading and writing Chinese characters. Typically in a 20 hour week, maybe 4-6 hours will be spent on speaking and listening, and the rest will be spent on reading and writing. Even in speaking and listening classes, you will be working from exercise books which require you to read and write Chinese. Learning to write is 100% a memorization exercise. The only real way to remember to write a Chinese character is to write it out a bunch of times. My teacher told me at 5 years old kids start learning to write and they do it by writing every character out 100 times. It takes up a lot of your study time. It only takes two seconds to learn how to say "My name is Joe" but it takes 5 minutes to learn how to write it, and if you don't practice writing it regularly you will forget it in a week.
- Remember there is no alphabet in Chinese. Every word is a unique character. They say knowledge of 4,000 characters is needed to comfortably read a newspaper. In contrast a top surgeon is expected to know upwards of 20,000 (or so I hear). Learning to read and write 4,000 unique characters almost seems ridiculous considering we only need to learn 26 (52 if you include capital letters, I guess). As a test, look up maybe 10 basic Chinese characters, learn to write them, and see how many of them you can still write the next day, and the next week. I still remember how I was with a couple of classmates in a cafe studying for exams and all us were just burning through paper writing characters out over and over and over again. Literally thousands and thousands of times. There were 400 boxes on each page and we were going through maybe 10 a day, which is, 4,000 times. That actually seems stupid now that I think back on it. We all knew how to say our shit, we just couldn't remember how to write it. Whats even worse is, I've easily forgotten how to write more than half of it, only a few months after finishing my course.
- I think the best advice I can give you is, enrol in a reputable university course for maybe half a semester or 1 semester. 2 months or so is a good start. It means you will get a good foundation and they will teach you the basics properly, such as the 4 tones, basic stroke order when writing etc etc. However after the first few months a lot of your time will be spent on just reading and writing, which I would assume wouldn't exactly align with your needs. If you are looking to get into business and make connections, and more importantly game chicks, speaking and listening should be your main priorities. In my opinion the best approach is to find yourself 2 or 3 private teachers (theres plenty of them). The reason I suggest different teachers is because they can have very different accents and you should try and get used to the different ones. Take an hour or two of class with a different teacher each day and you can tailor the material to your needs, tell them you want to focus on speaking and listening, and if you're interested in learning to read you can spend some time on that too. If only learning to speak, I think you can reach a high conversational level in 6 months. If learning to speak and read/write, you will need closer to 1.5-2 years. I really don't recommend learning how to write. It is a useful skill to have, and if it interests you then by all means go for it, but just the insane amount of time needed to get to any decent level of proficiency is simply not worth the effort, in my opinion. I know an American Chinese guy who set up a bunch of restaurants in Shanghai, he spoke Chinese at home growing up so was fluent, but couldn't read or write a thing - didn't stop him getting businesses up and running. He did have a Chinese girlfriend who he took with him to fill out forms and shit, though. Another thing that makes learning to write even more unnecessary is that so many people are using computers now to write. So learning to read is sufficient in most cases. Interestingly, Mandarin is pretty much the only language I can think of where it is common for people to speak fluently but not read or write. Many universities have a special class especially for people like this (usually for overseas born Chinese).
- Learning Chinese is a big investment of time - assuming you're an English speaker you could realistically learn 3 romanized languages, say Spanish, Portugese, French in the same time it would take you to reach fluency in Chinese (including learning to read/write). Most universities here have a program in place which requires between 2 and 2.5 years to reach the highest level. And remember investing your time to learn Chinese is placing all your bets on China, and although its a bloody good bet, its not a guaranteed one. I guess this is why French is such a common second language to study, its basically spoken on every continent.
- This is a little off topic, but I'll add this here anyway as I'm guessing it will apply to a lot of dudes here. If you are a white English speaking guy, China is your playground. Every girl will want to be your "language partner", which is a great way to both practice your Chinese and meet girls. Chinese people will all want to be your friend and you are likely to get special treatment in a lot of your jobs. Some examples - a friend of mine was a decent architect and got picked up pretty easily by a local firm. Even though he wasn't super high up in the ranks, he got taken on all the business trips with the big boss, staying in 5 star hotels all over China and eating at private meetings and banquets with all sorts of big players in the construction industry. He used to always come back and tell me ridiculous stories about drinking Chilean wine and eating lobsters and beef flown in from Australia and eating with CEOs of hotels and bla bla bla. Why? Because he was a tall, white pretty boy with brown curly hair who spoke some average Chinese. Image is everything in China, and when these dudes roll with white guys who seem to have their shit together and can speak some Chinese, it just makes them look good. Like they're international and all that, I guess.
Another example was a guy I knew who was a tall, good looking half white half Chinese guy. He got a job as a club promoter at the drop of a hat. Every Thurs, Fri and Sat night, he got given a free table at one of the top clubs in Shanghai with 5 or so free bottles of Grey Goose. His job was to bring his friends to the club to sit at his free table and drink his booze. He needed to get 15 people into the club before midnight or he didn't get paid that night. The competition among nightclubs in Shanghai is so fierce that they are always competing for the crowds, so you will meet a lot of good looking western guys and girls with jobs like this in Shanghai and Beijing, not sure about GZ. This kid was only 18, and he was having the damn time of his life. He still has 3 years before hes allowed to step into a club in the US, and here he was skipping the queues and walking in with girls on his arms, looking like a boss. Keep in mind normally a table at a top club in Shanghai with 5 bottles of vodka sets you back at least $750-$1,000, often more.
Anyway, that's what I gathered from studying in China for 8/9 months. Any questions, shoot.
Sounds like GZ has really lit a fire under you, good for you.
Just some insights for you and anyone else planning on studying Mandarin from scratch - My mother tongue is English and I have a decent amount of experience studying languages. I did a 22 hour per week course at a university in China for 8 months and was more or less disappointed with my results. These are my observations:
- If your mother tongue is English and you have no knowledge of a Chinese related language (e.g. Japanese, Cantonese) then don't expect rapid progress with learning Mandarin in the university environment. One can near fluency in Spanish in an intensive 6 month course (I had already reached the second highest level at my language school after 4 months), whereas with 6 months in Chinese people will typically only be just getting comfortable with having a conversation. You will find the Japanese and Cantonese speakers will naturally progress much faster than you, this is normal. Similar to when an American and Japanese both are learning Spanish, you don't need to look up "fotografia" in your dictionary, he does.
- There is a strong focus in university language programs on reading and writing Chinese characters. Typically in a 20 hour week, maybe 4-6 hours will be spent on speaking and listening, and the rest will be spent on reading and writing. Even in speaking and listening classes, you will be working from exercise books which require you to read and write Chinese. Learning to write is 100% a memorization exercise. The only real way to remember to write a Chinese character is to write it out a bunch of times. My teacher told me at 5 years old kids start learning to write and they do it by writing every character out 100 times. It takes up a lot of your study time. It only takes two seconds to learn how to say "My name is Joe" but it takes 5 minutes to learn how to write it, and if you don't practice writing it regularly you will forget it in a week.
- Remember there is no alphabet in Chinese. Every word is a unique character. They say knowledge of 4,000 characters is needed to comfortably read a newspaper. In contrast a top surgeon is expected to know upwards of 20,000 (or so I hear). Learning to read and write 4,000 unique characters almost seems ridiculous considering we only need to learn 26 (52 if you include capital letters, I guess). As a test, look up maybe 10 basic Chinese characters, learn to write them, and see how many of them you can still write the next day, and the next week. I still remember how I was with a couple of classmates in a cafe studying for exams and all us were just burning through paper writing characters out over and over and over again. Literally thousands and thousands of times. There were 400 boxes on each page and we were going through maybe 10 a day, which is, 4,000 times. That actually seems stupid now that I think back on it. We all knew how to say our shit, we just couldn't remember how to write it. Whats even worse is, I've easily forgotten how to write more than half of it, only a few months after finishing my course.
- I think the best advice I can give you is, enrol in a reputable university course for maybe half a semester or 1 semester. 2 months or so is a good start. It means you will get a good foundation and they will teach you the basics properly, such as the 4 tones, basic stroke order when writing etc etc. However after the first few months a lot of your time will be spent on just reading and writing, which I would assume wouldn't exactly align with your needs. If you are looking to get into business and make connections, and more importantly game chicks, speaking and listening should be your main priorities. In my opinion the best approach is to find yourself 2 or 3 private teachers (theres plenty of them). The reason I suggest different teachers is because they can have very different accents and you should try and get used to the different ones. Take an hour or two of class with a different teacher each day and you can tailor the material to your needs, tell them you want to focus on speaking and listening, and if you're interested in learning to read you can spend some time on that too. If only learning to speak, I think you can reach a high conversational level in 6 months. If learning to speak and read/write, you will need closer to 1.5-2 years. I really don't recommend learning how to write. It is a useful skill to have, and if it interests you then by all means go for it, but just the insane amount of time needed to get to any decent level of proficiency is simply not worth the effort, in my opinion. I know an American Chinese guy who set up a bunch of restaurants in Shanghai, he spoke Chinese at home growing up so was fluent, but couldn't read or write a thing - didn't stop him getting businesses up and running. He did have a Chinese girlfriend who he took with him to fill out forms and shit, though. Another thing that makes learning to write even more unnecessary is that so many people are using computers now to write. So learning to read is sufficient in most cases. Interestingly, Mandarin is pretty much the only language I can think of where it is common for people to speak fluently but not read or write. Many universities have a special class especially for people like this (usually for overseas born Chinese).
- Learning Chinese is a big investment of time - assuming you're an English speaker you could realistically learn 3 romanized languages, say Spanish, Portugese, French in the same time it would take you to reach fluency in Chinese (including learning to read/write). Most universities here have a program in place which requires between 2 and 2.5 years to reach the highest level. And remember investing your time to learn Chinese is placing all your bets on China, and although its a bloody good bet, its not a guaranteed one. I guess this is why French is such a common second language to study, its basically spoken on every continent.
- This is a little off topic, but I'll add this here anyway as I'm guessing it will apply to a lot of dudes here. If you are a white English speaking guy, China is your playground. Every girl will want to be your "language partner", which is a great way to both practice your Chinese and meet girls. Chinese people will all want to be your friend and you are likely to get special treatment in a lot of your jobs. Some examples - a friend of mine was a decent architect and got picked up pretty easily by a local firm. Even though he wasn't super high up in the ranks, he got taken on all the business trips with the big boss, staying in 5 star hotels all over China and eating at private meetings and banquets with all sorts of big players in the construction industry. He used to always come back and tell me ridiculous stories about drinking Chilean wine and eating lobsters and beef flown in from Australia and eating with CEOs of hotels and bla bla bla. Why? Because he was a tall, white pretty boy with brown curly hair who spoke some average Chinese. Image is everything in China, and when these dudes roll with white guys who seem to have their shit together and can speak some Chinese, it just makes them look good. Like they're international and all that, I guess.
Another example was a guy I knew who was a tall, good looking half white half Chinese guy. He got a job as a club promoter at the drop of a hat. Every Thurs, Fri and Sat night, he got given a free table at one of the top clubs in Shanghai with 5 or so free bottles of Grey Goose. His job was to bring his friends to the club to sit at his free table and drink his booze. He needed to get 15 people into the club before midnight or he didn't get paid that night. The competition among nightclubs in Shanghai is so fierce that they are always competing for the crowds, so you will meet a lot of good looking western guys and girls with jobs like this in Shanghai and Beijing, not sure about GZ. This kid was only 18, and he was having the damn time of his life. He still has 3 years before hes allowed to step into a club in the US, and here he was skipping the queues and walking in with girls on his arms, looking like a boss. Keep in mind normally a table at a top club in Shanghai with 5 bottles of vodka sets you back at least $750-$1,000, often more.
Anyway, that's what I gathered from studying in China for 8/9 months. Any questions, shoot.
Quote: (01-23-2013 09:26 AM)shibby Wrote:
Hey VP
Sounds like GZ has really lit a fire under you, good for you.
Just some insights for you and anyone else planning on studying Mandarin from scratch - My mother tongue is English and I have a decent amount of experience studying languages. I did a 22 hour per week course at a university in China for 8 months and was more or less disappointed with my results. These are my observations:
- If your mother tongue is English and you have no knowledge of a Chinese related language (e.g. Japanese, Cantonese) then don't expect rapid progress with learning Mandarin in the university environment. One can near fluency in Spanish in an intensive 6 month course (I had already reached the second highest level at my language school after 4 months), whereas with 6 months in Chinese people will typically only be just getting comfortable with having a conversation. You will find the Japanese and Cantonese speakers will naturally progress much faster than you, this is normal. Similar to when an American and Japanese both are learning Spanish, you don't need to look up "fotografia" in your dictionary, he does.
- There is a strong focus in university language programs on reading and writing Chinese characters. Typically in a 20 hour week, maybe 4-6 hours will be spent on speaking and listening, and the rest will be spent on reading and writing. Even in speaking and listening classes, you will be working from exercise books which require you to read and write Chinese. Learning to write is 100% a memorization exercise. The only real way to remember to write a Chinese character is to write it out a bunch of times. My teacher told me at 5 years old kids start learning to write and they do it by writing every character out 100 times. It takes up a lot of your study time. It only takes two seconds to learn how to say "My name is Joe" but it takes 5 minutes to learn how to write it, and if you don't practice writing it regularly you will forget it in a week.
- Remember there is no alphabet in Chinese. Every word is a unique character. They say knowledge of 4,000 characters is needed to comfortably read a newspaper. In contrast a top surgeon is expected to know upwards of 20,000 (or so I hear). Learning to read and write 4,000 unique characters almost seems ridiculous considering we only need to learn 26 (52 if you include capital letters, I guess). As a test, look up maybe 10 basic Chinese characters, learn to write them, and see how many of them you can still write the next day, and the next week. I still remember how I was with a couple of classmates in a cafe studying for exams and all us were just burning through paper writing characters out over and over and over again. Literally thousands and thousands of times. There were 400 boxes on each page and we were going through maybe 10 a day, which is, 4,000 times. That actually seems stupid now that I think back on it. We all knew how to say our shit, we just couldn't remember how to write it. Whats even worse is, I've easily forgotten how to write more than half of it, only a few months after finishing my course.
- I think the best advice I can give you is, enrol in a reputable university course for maybe half a semester or 1 semester. 2 months or so is a good start. It means you will get a good foundation and they will teach you the basics properly, such as the 4 tones, basic stroke order when writing etc etc. However after the first few months a lot of your time will be spent on just reading and writing, which I would assume wouldn't exactly align with your needs. If you are looking to get into business and make connections, and more importantly game chicks, speaking and listening should be your main priorities. In my opinion the best approach is to find yourself 2 or 3 private teachers (theres plenty of them). The reason I suggest different teachers is because they can have very different accents and you should try and get used to the different ones. Take an hour or two of class with a different teacher each day and you can tailor the material to your needs, tell them you want to focus on speaking and listening, and if you're interested in learning to read you can spend some time on that too. If only learning to speak, I think you can reach a high conversational level in 6 months. If learning to speak and read/write, you will need closer to 1.5-2 years. I really don't recommend learning how to write. It is a useful skill to have, and if it interests you then by all means go for it, but just the insane amount of time needed to get to any decent level of proficiency is simply not worth the effort, in my opinion. I know an American Chinese guy who set up a bunch of restaurants in Shanghai, he spoke Chinese at home growing up so was fluent, but couldn't read or write a thing - didn't stop him getting businesses up and running. He did have a Chinese girlfriend who he took with him to fill out forms and shit, though. Another thing that makes learning to write even more unnecessary is that so many people are using computers now to write. So learning to read is sufficient in most cases. Interestingly, Mandarin is pretty much the only language I can think of where it is common for people to speak fluently but not read or write. Many universities have a special class especially for people like this (usually for overseas born Chinese).
- Learning Chinese is a big investment of time - assuming you're an English speaker you could realistically learn 3 romanized languages, say Spanish, Portugese, French in the same time it would take you to reach fluency in Chinese (including learning to read/write). Most universities here have a program in place which requires between 2 and 2.5 years to reach the highest level. And remember investing your time to learn Chinese is placing all your bets on China, and although its a bloody good bet, its not a guaranteed one. I guess this is why French is such a common second language to study, its basically spoken on every continent.
- This is a little off topic, but I'll add this here anyway as I'm guessing it will apply to a lot of dudes here. If you are a white English speaking guy, China is your playground. Every girl will want to be your "language partner", which is a great way to both practice your Chinese and meet girls. Chinese people will all want to be your friend and you are likely to get special treatment in a lot of your jobs. Some examples - a friend of mine was a decent architect and got picked up pretty easily by a local firm. Even though he wasn't super high up in the ranks, he got taken on all the business trips with the big boss, staying in 5 star hotels all over China and eating at private meetings and banquets with all sorts of big players in the construction industry. He used to always come back and tell me ridiculous stories about drinking Chilean wine and eating lobsters and beef flown in from Australia and eating with CEOs of hotels and bla bla bla. Why? Because he was a tall, white pretty boy with brown curly hair who spoke some average Chinese. Image is everything in China, and when these dudes roll with white guys who seem to have their shit together and can speak some Chinese, it just makes them look good. Like they're international and all that, I guess.
Another example was a guy I knew who was a tall, good looking half white half Chinese guy. He got a job as a club promoter at the drop of a hat. Every Thurs, Fri and Sat night, he got given a free table at one of the top clubs in Shanghai with 5 or so free bottles of Grey Goose. His job was to bring his friends to the club to sit at his free table and drink his booze. He needed to get 15 people into the club before midnight or he didn't get paid that night. The competition among nightclubs in Shanghai is so fierce that you will meet a lot of good looking western guys and girls with jobs like this in Shanghai and Beijing, not sure about GZ. This kid was only 18, and he was having the damn time of his life. He still has 3 years before hes allowed to step into a club in the US, and here he was skipping the queues and walking in with girls on his arms, looking like a boss. Keep in mind normally a table at a top club in Shanghai with 5 bottles of vodka sets you back at least $750-$1,000, often more.
Anyway, that's what I gathered from studying in China for 8/9 months. Any questions, shoot.
you can't reach a high conversational level in 6 months, even devoting all of your time to conversation.
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