[Donald Duck]

I think my body is telling me to eat more carbs since I have been close to exhausted this week. I got back from the gym 3 hours ago and all I've been doing is lying in my bed. Since a couple of weeks, I've been eating less than 30 carbs a day, combined with heavy lifting 6x a week. I am noticing that my body fat is dropping but it can't be that I almost have no energy in the gym or after the gym anymore.

I eat 3 boiled eggs with a bowl of spinach every morning. (I workout in the morning) For variation I sometimes eat 3 boiled eggs with lean meat. My post workout contains of a can of tuna and some natural skim yoghurt. All in all, no more than 30 carbs a day.

What should I change? I was planning on going to the gym tomorrow but I am afraid that won't work since I barely have the energy to walk.

[MiXX]

The reason why you have no energy during extreme Low-carb dieting and low calorie diets is because you body is deprived of Vitamin B-12, and in order for you to sustain a level of energy required to workout during Ketosis, and low calorie your body MUST receive 1 CC of Vitamin B12 via SUB-Q injections in your stomach.

I tested at 80mg of Ketones this morning as I m also in Ketosis, but I do extreme workouts that involved SPRINTS, uphill climbs with weight vest, 3 mile run before weights, followed by 1hr of Yoga, and I am NEVER TIRED!

I am on 3Grams of CARBs per day and 1,100 Total calories per day for the next 6 weeks, and I have been this way for the past 3 weeks.

I take my B12 injection in my stomach every morning, that is the KEY TO WHAT YOU ARE MISSING.

I never understood why people did low-carb diets with exercise and never once considered B12 deficiency that will make them feel lethargic.

More info here

http://www.b-12shot.net/



MIxx

[velkrum]

change EVERYTHING ! if thats all your eating you are severely malnourished. NO ONE SHOULD EVER INTENTIONALLY EAT LOW CARBS !!

Eat more carbs from fruits and veggies to stabilize your blood sugar levels. After you start feeling better eat better foods. Skim yogurt and hard boiled eggs are shitty meals used for quick grams of protein.

Your post workout meal SUCKS !!! no wonder you have no energy. After working out your body has used up its gas. Eating Tuna after hitting the gym hard is like putting water in your gas tank when your car is on E.

Also...for your own health and safety DO NO EAT 30grams of carbs per day and hit the gym hard. Thats like an anorexic girl eating healthy food and then throwing it up.

[Donald Duck]

Well, I've been taking 1000mg of B12 vitamins daily for months now. Haven't received those shots you talked about yet.

[MiXX]

(02-10-2012 10:22 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

Well, I've been taking 1000mg of B12 vitamins daily for months now. Haven't received those shots you talked about yet.

Not enough if you expect to exercise. An oral dose of 1000mg is ok if you just plan on sitting on your ass watching TV while you low-carb (which I do not recommend).

You need to take them via Injection in your stomach, and One full CC. 1CC. Get this from a local nutrition center or Doctor.


Also, I echo what Velkrum mentioned, eat lots of raw, green spinach, and 2 fruits per day: 1 Grapefruit, 1 small green apple <<-- This will not impact Ketosis, it will help you!

Mixx

[velkrum]

B Vitamins are not the sole reason for energy boosts. B Vitamins help metabolize sugar from a proper diet.

You have to be eating GOOD in order to get the benefits of B vitamins.

Shitty eating with B Vitamins is useless.

OP does not need to be thinking about B Vitamin supplementation. He FIRST needs to develop better eating habits.

@Mixx thats pretty awesome that you are advanced enough to mess around with ketogenic stages but for 99.9 percent of the guys on this forum Ketosis is ABSOLUTELY NOT THE WAY for them to get in shape.

[MiXX]

(02-10-2012 10:26 AM)velkrum Wrote:  

B Vitamins are not the sole reason for energy boosts. B Vitamins help metabolize sugar from a proper diet.

You have to be eating GOOD in order to get the benefits of B vitamins.

Shitty eating with B Vitamins is useless.

OP does not need to be thinking about B Vitamin supplementation. He FIRST needs to develop better eating habits.

Agreed. Eating comes first before anything else.

OP, you should post your daily diet so that we can review it and see where you may be falling short. INCLUDE EVERYTHING YOU EAT!

Mixx

[Donald Duck]

Morning:
Bowl of spinach with 3 boiled eggs
OR
Bowl of spinach with lean chicken meat

Workout not longer than 1 hour

Post-Workout:
Canned tuna (with mayo)
Or
High protein low carb yoghurt
A couple of almonds

After 3 hours:

Any green vegetable with lean meat

Snack: 2 whole wheat crackers with cheese or peanut butter (combined not more than 12 carbs)

After 2-3 hours:
Salad (lettuce, mayo, chicken filet, 1 tomato and 2 eggs) with ground beef

And I might eat some cottage cheese before sleeping

That's it.


Oh and I am going to eat white fish today

[Brian]

(02-10-2012 10:16 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

The reason why you have no energy during extreme Low-carb dieting and low calorie diets is because you body is deprived of Vitamin B-12, and in order for you to sustain a level of energy required to workout during Ketosis, and low calorie your body MUST receive 1 CC of Vitamin B12 via SUB-Q injections in your stomach.

I tested at 80mg of Ketones this morning as I m also in Ketosis, but I do extreme workouts that involved SPRINTS, uphill climbs with weight vest, 3 mile run before weights, followed by 1hr of Yoga, and I am NEVER TIRED!

I am on 3Grams of CARBs per day and 1,100 Total calories per day for the next 6 weeks, and I have been this way for the past 3 weeks.

I take my B12 injection in my stomach every morning, that is the KEY TO WHAT YOU ARE MISSING.

I never understood why people did low-carb diets with exercise and never once considered B12 deficiency that will make them feel lethargic.

More info here

http://www.b-12shot.net/



MIxx

what part of your stomach do you place the needle?

[Moma]

Donald, what's your goal? Why the low carbs? You cutting up? Do you take ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar)?

[MiXX]

[quote] (02-10-2012 10:40 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

Morning:
Bowl of spinach with 3 boiled eggs
OR
Bowl of spinach with lean chicken meat[/quote]

Too many whole eggs. Substitute 3 whole eggs with egg beaters 100% egg whites.

[quote] (02-10-2012 10:40 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

Workout not longer than 1 hour[/quote]

Be sure to drink enough water to hydrate yourself, you should be at 2 liters by this point.

[quote] (02-10-2012 10:40 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

Post-Workout:
Canned tuna (with mayo) <<-- mayo? NO! Throw your jar in the garbage today! add 1 red Grapefruit right here instead!
Or
High protein low carb yoghurt <<-- Greek Yogurt, or any yogurt should only be done during maintenance, not fat-loss, ditch completely. Your proteins should come from white fish: lobster, shrimp, scallops, magi-mahi NO SALMON.
A couple of almonds <<-- This is OK, just do not over-do it.[/quote]
[quote] (02-10-2012 10:40 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

After 3 hours:
[quote='Donald Duck' pid='159038' dateline='1328888405']
Any green vegetable with lean meat[/quote]

** grass fed, organic? If not, ditch and replace with skinless chicken breast.

[quote] (02-10-2012 10:40 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

Snack: 2 whole wheat crackers with cheese or peanut butter (combined not more than 12 carbs)[/quote]

NO CRAKERS OR PEANUT BUTTER AT ALL! This is where you should be eating another fruit! add an apple here!

[quote] (02-10-2012 10:40 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

After 2-3 hours:
Salad (lettuce, mayo, chicken filet, 1 tomato and 2 eggs) with ground beef[/quote]

More eggs? way too many! And get rid of the Mayo!

[quote] (02-10-2012 10:40 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

And I might eat some cottage cheese before sleeping[/quote]


No cheese!! If you are hungry before bed, grab 2 entire cucumbers, sprinkle some mortons lite salt, and more SPINACH!



Yor problem is that you are not eating enough fruit, and you are adding crap to your body that makes it work harder to metabolize, especially when your body is in Ketosis! YOU NEED FOOD THAT GIVES YOU ENERGY!!

** YOU SHOULD BE DRINKING 4 LITERS OF WATER PER DAY!!

MY DIET AND I AM IN KETOSIS!

Breakfast:

7:00am 100% liquid egg whites, and 1 grapefruit, WATER, B12 Injection

9:00am Yoga at home , more water

10:00 1 green apple, water

Noon: 1/2 chicken breast, skinless grilled, AN ABSURD AMOUNT OG GREEN SPINACH, WATER


1400: 5 red strawberries

1600: EXTREME WORKOUT!!! 60 minutes of intense excerise using heart rate monitor to stay in Fat burning zone for 30 minutes, and just above heart bursnig zone for another 20 - this includes, sprints, weights, jumping rope, push-ups all in 60 minutes...NO TIME FOR TALKING OR SOCIALIZING!!


19:00hrs: any white fish, lobster with MORE SPINACH, CUCUMBER, WATER!!


That's my diet - every day, I am in Ketosis!

Mixx

[raliv]

Donald Duck, how long have you been in Ketosis? Are you doing a carb-up day at all or are you being strict? I did 12 weeks of a Keto diet but I carbed-up every weekend to power through workouts during the week.

[Blunt]

You don't need to be going into Ketosis and be pulling a low-fat diet also, which is what you seem to be doing. If you have your carbs under 30g a day then you should be eating some fatty meats for energy.

The key is, don't eat ANY grains. No sugar. Carbs should only be veggies and some fruit. But not too hard on the fruit.

Try making an omelette in the morning with eggs, a hard cheese, green pepper, and mush. Or you can make yourself a suitable shake, maybe a banana, some frozen berries, protein powder, and an egg.

Have you heard of the paleo diet? I strong suggest you look into it.

Also heavy lifting 6x a week? I hope you give each muscle group at least 48 hours to rest in between. Overtraining will give you meager results unless you are a complete noob to lifting, and it can hurt you.

[Donald Duck]

But isn't fruit also high in carbs? If I recall correctly, an apple has like 20+ carbs.

[Moma]

(02-10-2012 12:48 PM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

But isn't fruit also high in carbs? If I recall correctly, an apple has like 20+ carbs.

Not all carbs are equal. I think we need a thread with stickies on the fundamentals of lifting and getting cut. I find the same questions keep getting asked (even I'm guilty).

There should be an FAQ thread on game, travelling to a country where they don't speak your language, working out, investing and other shyt.

[velkrum]

Moma, the biggest issues with health and fitness threads is the MIS-information.

No one on this forum has ever said anything or given any advice that would indicate that they have any experience or logical understanding of how to help people.

The only tried and true advice that I've seen is to "follow the paleo diet"

There are way to many guys that learn about something new but don't really understand the bigger picture of what they learned.

For instance..being in Ketosis is a bad thing !

It's something your body does as a desperate attempt to survive but it is NOT a healthy state to be in. I also see these crazy posts about Supplement X working so well and people swear they notice changes in their body etc..

Clearly this is NOT a forum for people to get nutritional information. I only give advice because I am a certified nutritionist with years of practice and experience on myself and others.

[MiXX]

(02-10-2012 12:48 PM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

But isn't fruit also high in carbs? If I recall correctly, an apple has like 20+ carbs.

I eat a green apple every day and a red grapefruit; my ketosis meter urine stick read 80mg this morning.

I'll post a time-stamped picture again tomorrow morning when I measure myself so that you can see.

I think you should stop the low-carb diet completely asap, educate yourself on how to eat on this diet FIRST, and then get back on it properly.

You are doing more damage than good to your body thinking that an organic, green apple is "BAD FOR YOU BECAUSE...EWWWW...IT HAS CARBS!"

carbs from an apple or grapefruit are not the same carbs from a breakfeast croissant or burrito at Chipotle!

Mixx

[MiXX]

(02-10-2012 01:17 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

For instance..being in Ketosis is a bad thing !

It's something your body does as a desperate attempt to survive but it is NOT a healthy state to be in.

Velkrum, I have to respectfully disagree. I have done A TON OF RESEARCH ON NUTRITION, and I was on my way to becoming a nutrionist myself 15 years ago. I am not a certified nutrionist as I chose another career path. However, I still educated myself a lot on the art of eating healthy, and how my body works.


Here's something I found posted that I think clearly defines the state of Ketosis.

"A lot of people are confused by the term "ketosis." You may read that it is a "dangerous state" for the body, and it does sound abnormal to be "in ketosis." But ketosis merely means that our bodies are using fat for energy. Ketones (also called ketone bodies) are molecules generated during fat metabolism, whether from the fat in the guacamole you just ate or fat you were carrying around your middle. When our bodies are breaking down fat for energy, most of the it gets converted more or less directly to ATP. (Remember high school biology? This is the "energy molecule.") But ketones are also produced as part of the process.

When people eat less carbohydrate, their bodies turn to fat for energy, so it makes sense that more ketones are generated. Some of those ketones (acetoacetate and ß-hydroxybutyrate) are used for energy; the heart muscle and kidneys, for example, prefer ketones to glucose. Most cells, including the brain cells, are able to use ketones for at least part of their energy. But there is one type of ketone molecule, called acetone, that cannot be used and is excreted as waste, mostly in the urine and breath."

I have several personal trainers, nutritionists, and dietician ex GF's that completely agree that Ketosis is only bad when you are not eating properly and stealing vitamins from your body, then i agree, it is dangerous, like the OP is doing now, and is causing him to feel lethargic. That is why I recommend he stop, and restart the right way.

Why do some people think ketosis is a bad thing?

There is an assumption that if a body is burning a lot of fat for energy, it must not be getting "enough" glucose. However, there is no indication, from studying people on reduced carbohydrate diets, that this is the case (though there is usually a short period of adjustment -- less than a week, in most cases). Although it's true that our bodies can't break fat down into glucose (though, interestingly, they easily use glucose to make fat), our bodies can convert some of the protein we eat into glucose. Indeed, this works well for people who don't tolerate a lot of sugar, because this conversion happens slowly so it doesn't spike blood glucose.

A dangerous condition called ketoacidosis can develop in those with type 1 diabetes, and it is sometimes confused with normal ketosis. The body usually avoids this state by producing insulin, but people with type 1 diabetes are unable to produce insulin. Even most people with type 2 diabetes who inject insulin usually produce enough insulin of their own to prevent ketoacidosis.


Mixx

[Chad Daring]

As everyone said, you're WAAAY under eating.


I did Atkins for months and would go days without eating any carbs and I lifted just fine, the problem is waking up and eating like you're in Aushcwitz and THEN going to the gym isn't gonna cut it, your body has no fuel to burn.

Put some good fats into your morning mix and eat some quick burning protein, go buy some turkey sausage and slam down 6oz of that with your breakfast, give your gut something to work with.


Also yes, fruits has carbs but as MiXX said its not the same as bread. Fruit breaks down into fructose which has a much lower glycemic impact which means your blood sugar isn't gonna go ape shit from a little fruit.

Strawberries too. Strawberries are surprisingly low in carbs but packed with all kinds of goodness.

[reaper23]

mixx what is your current physical condition and what are your goals?

i think that is important to state clearly for those reading about your approach.

for example, i'm 6'4 260. my goal is to have a 500lb dead lift and 300 lbs clean and jerk. i do olympic lifting and crossfit type work outs six times a week.

therefore, my diet includes eating large amounts of grass-fed steak, grass-fed milk, eggs, bacon, seafood, fruit and veggies. mad quantities.

if i laid out my diet for you without knowing what my goals are or what my workout schedule is like, you'd think i was insane

[Donald Duck]

(02-10-2012 03:21 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

As everyone said, you're WAAAY under eating.


I did Atkins for months and would go days without eating any carbs and I lifted just fine, the problem is waking up and eating like you're in Aushcwitz and THEN going to the gym isn't gonna cut it, your body has no fuel to burn.

Put some good fats into your morning mix and eat some quick burning protein, go buy some turkey sausage and slam down 6oz of that with your breakfast, give your gut something to work with.


Also yes, fruits has carbs but as MiXX said its not the same as bread. Fruit breaks down into fructose which has a much lower glycemic impact which means your blood sugar isn't gonna go ape shit from a little fruit.

Strawberries too. Strawberries are surprisingly low in carbs but packed with all kinds of goodness.

I understand carbs from pasta are different from carbs from an apple, but I don't know if I am really under-eating since my goal is to slim down a bit.

I used to eat oatmeal in the morning before working out and it gave me a lot of energy, too bad my serving size had 20 carbs.

Do you recommend I eat a big piece of chicken breast before working out in the morning?

[velkrum]

...just read paleo diet.

[Donald Duck]

(02-10-2012 03:58 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

...just read paleo diet.

I have read about it. I would never eat pork liver pate or excess animal fat just because our ancestors ate it... Disagree with the grains and dairy thing too.

[reaper23]

(02-10-2012 04:03 PM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

(02-10-2012 03:58 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

...just read paleo diet.

I have read about it. I would never eat pork liver pate or excess animal fat just because our ancestors ate it... Disagree with the grains and dairy thing too.

the paleo freaks are idiots.

that said, i eat a paleo base plus grass-fed dairy.

eating good (grass-fed) meats, seafoods, veggies, and fruits just makes sense.

i dont care enough about legumes and grains to put up a fuss about it, i just dont eat them.

forget about the paleo freaks genesis of their ideas and just take it for what it is, a common sense way of eating. fresh food. simple as that.

[Giovonny]

(02-10-2012 11:02 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

NO CRAKERS OR PEANUT BUTTER AT ALL!

Fuck no peanut butter!!! I love peanut butter!

Many days I have 2 tablespoons of pb in my 8am banana-oatmeal shake. I tend to think this is ok because there is some protein and good fat in the pb. But, I don't know???

What do you think?

(02-10-2012 03:36 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

mixx what is your current physical condition and what are your goals?

i think that is important to state clearly for those reading about your approach.

for example, i'm 6'4 260. my goal is to have a 500lb dead lift and 300 lbs clean and jerk. i do olympic lifting and crossfit type work outs six times a week.

therefore, my diet includes eating large amounts of grass-fed steak, grass-fed milk, eggs, bacon, seafood, fruit and veggies. mad quantities.

if i laid out my diet for you without knowing what my goals are or what my workout schedule is like, you'd think i was insane

Thats an important point. We all have different goals and lifestyles so our diets are going to vary alot.

Eating to lose weight is one thing. Eating to gain weight (muscle) in another thing. Eating to maintain your current body is also slightly different. All of our bodies react differently to this food. Its really about finding the diet or way of eating that works best for your specific body.