[TheBMan]

(10-18-2013 07:50 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

you will never ever get much bigger or stronger doing crossfit.

you burn too many calories and just dont do the heavy compound strength movements consistently.

i went to the best xfit in dc for years. made some progress but had to leave to really hit my goals. put 100 lbs on my deadlift in a few months after i left (500).

maybe one day i'll go back to it but for now i just want to get bigger and stronger. i dont care how many burpees i can do.

just out of curiosity which Crossfit is the best in DC?

[reaper23]

in my estimation crossfitmph.com

each year they have at least a couple people make it to the regionals and every year a top ten female finisher at the nationals.

[reaper23]

(10-19-2013 09:59 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

I can't help but roll my eyes when someone says you won't get stronger doing CrossFit. I don't know who your coaches are but that is absolutely not true. If you have good programming you'll have days where you focus on strength building and generally even have a "power hour" class thrown in there. I'm not saying you are doing this but most people that complain about not getting stronger never go to strength building days and never actually do prescribed weight during wods and just play it safe by scaling down. I don't know anyone who didn't get a LOT stronger that went from 1 muscle up to 10 in a row without touching their feet to the ground.

fisto - my powerlifting total is almost 1200. i also did crossfit for three years. i am as qualified to speak on this topic as anyone.

i should have clarified.

yes, crossfit programming will get your deadlift from 125 to 225. or your snatch from 45 to 105.

but to get real elite level strength, it wont happen.

total newbs will see gains but real strength athletes aren't going to see much progress.


i was just out last night with several coaches from the crossfit gym i mentioned. they each explained to me how crossfit is kind of a big lie in that all the men's nationals competitors do far more strength training than main site WOD programming indicates. xfit holds these guys out as the best of the xfiters but the truth is that they dont even do the xfit programming and largely just do the metcons as the competitions approach.

they spend large amounts of time dedicated to pure strength training, but you'll never see that programmed on the main site or at most boxes.

[reaper23]

(10-18-2013 08:51 PM)puckman Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 07:50 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

i went to the best xfit in dc for years.

which one? I have done a few certs in Alexandria, solid gym.

crossfitmph.com

[ElJefe]

This is all very interesting. 1200 pounds - that's bench/deadlift/squat, right? I am at 1100 right now, have been there a 1½ a half, my training regimen has been totally shit since I got there. I want to have a good BB look before I get into crossjizz, so I would ideally like to get to 1400 or so, which I'm hoping I can do rather quickly if I can stop chasing girls long enough to stay sober. Almost 27, so I want to reach the level I'm going to maintain pronto.

[Vaun]

(10-20-2013 10:45 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

i was just out last night with several coaches from the crossfit gym i mentioned. they each explained to me how crossfit is kind of a big lie in that all the men's nationals competitors do far more strength training than main site WOD programming indicates. xfit holds these guys out as the best of the xfiters but the truth is that they dont even do the xfit programming and largely just do the metcons as the competitions approach.

Its all about your goals. These guys are training for the games, they have to train more, that is no secret or conspiracy, they openly state it on crossfit.com. There was a shift around 2009-10 away from the backyard fitness dead concert, to the full on superbowl with a big purse. Of course people are going to train like full time athletes. You are right that you wont break through novice power lifting strength levels by only doing Crossfit, but I think there is a big distinction; crossfit never claimed to be a power lifting program and most crossfit gyms do not follow the mainsite anymore. They do their own programming. A lot of the time its random mishmash bullshit. Some of it is good, but I have always relied on the mainsite. Extra strength sessions are not crossfit, and if you need them then I say you are not going hard enough in your wods. But I guess I am old school, I started in 2005, have several certs, competed, and the level of involvement in the sport is much more than when I started. I started because it was short and sweet. Some Crossfit trainers are good and some are not. I did wods regularly from 2006-2009 and never got much higher than a 1000 crossfit total. Did I care? Yes, I quit and did a strength program and got much higher, but I also got fat and slow, and my wods were slower. There is always a trade off. For a program that is meant to make you good at 10 areas of fitness, once you deviate into one area, you specialize in that area. This whole trend of doing your own programming in Crossfit has certainly made for some interesting results, and I would challenge any of those coaches that do to lay out their micro and macro programming schedule, to see if one actually exists.

Trident is where I went in DC, great crew.

[MikeCF]

(10-19-2013 09:59 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

I can't help but roll my eyes when someone says you won't get stronger doing CrossFit. I don't know who your coaches are but that is absolutely not true. If you have good programming you'll have days where you focus on strength building and generally even have a "power hour" class thrown in there. I'm not saying you are doing this but most people that complain about not getting stronger never go to strength building days and never actually do prescribed weight during wods and just play it safe by scaling down. I don't know anyone who didn't get a LOT stronger that went from 1 muscle up to 10 in a row without touching their feet to the ground.

You'll get stronger doing their gimmick lifts.

That's sorta a personal trainer secret you have to learn to keep clients coming back.

Pick some obscure movement that no one does. Then "test" the client on that new movement. Of course they'll get better, as everyone gets better with practice.

Now call that movement "functional" or "strong." Boom! As a trainer I get to say I've made you more functional and strong.

But a lot of that stuff is just technique rather than raw strength.

You can probably do a body lock and trip without using much strength at all, where as the untrained person that would seem like a movement requiring a lot of raw strength.

If I did XFit, I would not get "stronger." I'd get better are certain movements, but on some objective measure I'd not get any stronger.

Now fo course the untrained person is going to get stronger doing XFit.

They'd get stronger doing Strong Lifts, Super Squats, 5/3/1, etc.

The question is what would happen if you took a guy, gave him a good coach, put him on Strong Lifts, Super Squats, 5/3/1...Which guy would be bigger and stronger afterwards?

[reaper23]

(10-20-2013 05:21 PM)puckman Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 10:45 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

i was just out last night with several coaches from the crossfit gym i mentioned. they each explained to me how crossfit is kind of a big lie in that all the men's nationals competitors do far more strength training than main site WOD programming indicates. xfit holds these guys out as the best of the xfiters but the truth is that they dont even do the xfit programming and largely just do the metcons as the competitions approach.

Its all about your goals. These guys are training for the games, they have to train more, that is no secret or conspiracy, they openly state it on crossfit.com. There was a shift around 2009-10 away from the backyard fitness dead concert, to the full on superbowl with a big purse. Of course people are going to train like full time athletes. You are right that you wont break through novice power lifting strength levels by only doing Crossfit, but I think there is a big distinction; crossfit never claimed to be a power lifting program and most crossfit gyms do not follow the mainsite anymore. They do their own programming. A lot of the time its random mishmash bullshit. Some of it is good, but I have always relied on the mainsite. Extra strength sessions are not crossfit, and if you need them then I say you are not going hard enough in your wods. But I guess I am old school, I started in 2005, have several certs, competed, and the level of involvement in the sport is much more than when I started. I started because it was short and sweet. Some Crossfit trainers are good and some are not. I did wods regularly from 2006-2009 and never got much higher than a 1000 crossfit total. Did I care? Yes, I quit and did a strength program and got much higher, but I also got fat and slow, and my wods were slower. There is always a trade off. For a program that is meant to make you good at 10 areas of fitness, once you deviate into one area, you specialize in that area. This whole trend of doing your own programming in Crossfit has certainly made for some interesting results, and I would challenge any of those coaches that do to lay out their micro and macro programming schedule, to see if one actually exists.

Trident is where I went in DC, great crew.

good post, thanks

but seriously, what good is it if the "crossfit games" require training that isn't crossfit?

isnt that selling a bill of goods to the general uneducated public that drops $250/mo on box dues?

[reaper23]

(10-20-2013 11:10 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

This is all very interesting. 1200 pounds - that's bench/deadlift/squat, right? I am at 1100 right now, have been there a 1½ a half, my training regimen has been totally shit since I got there. I want to have a good BB look before I get into crossjizz, so I would ideally like to get to 1400 or so, which I'm hoping I can do rather quickly if I can stop chasing girls long enough to stay sober. Almost 27, so I want to reach the level I'm going to maintain pronto.

1400 would be pretty serious.

i will suggest that adding another 300 to the total will take more than just "hoping I can do rather quickly"

thats serious dedication to eating, sleeping, workouts...probably take what? 2 years?

2 years of serious committed dedicated work

[Vaun]

(10-20-2013 06:42 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

but seriously, what good is it if the "crossfit games" require training that isn't crossfit?

isnt that selling a bill of goods to the general uneducated public that drops $250/mo on box dues?

I dont think so, its always been this way. Since the '08 Games people mostly have been training outside of 'main page.' Its not like its pre-meditated, I have literally watched it get here since 2005 from inside boxes, at the games, etc. Yes there is a marketing aspect to putting Froning front and center, but Crossfit has always put its finest athletes, from the earliest games, front and center, because frankly they are bad ass attractive people. Dont think its a bait and switch, but I do think the functional piece should be promoted more and can be explained more. Thats what the Crossfit Journal is for, but that doesnt get quite the coverage like the sensationalist and sexy stuff.

[Duke Castile]

All I know, is that when I train crossfit consistently I get big and strong as a motherfucker. Maybe it's just my body.

[RexImperator]

I'm sure a lot of activities can make one stronger... I think what some are saying is that it's more of a question of efficiency. I'll suggest there's a middle ground: The "best" training program is going to be one you are motivated to do consistently. So if Xfit works for you, it works.

[reaper23]

(10-20-2013 08:20 PM)puckman Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 06:42 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

but seriously, what good is it if the "crossfit games" require training that isn't crossfit?

isnt that selling a bill of goods to the general uneducated public that drops $250/mo on box dues?

I dont think so, its always been this way. Since the '08 Games people mostly have been training outside of 'main page.' Its not like its pre-meditated, I have literally watched it get here since 2005 from inside boxes, at the games, etc. Yes there is a marketing aspect to putting Froning front and center, but Crossfit has always put its finest athletes, from the earliest games, front and center, because frankly they are bad ass attractive people. Dont think its a bait and switch, but I do think the functional piece should be promoted more and can be explained more. Thats what the Crossfit Journal is for, but that doesnt get quite the coverage like the sensationalist and sexy stuff.

but the games are meant to promote crossfit

and promote crossfit they do

except to be like those guys in the games, you can't (just) do crossfit

you can't tell me that the enrollment pop boxes get post Games coverage isnt from people thinking, I want to be like that, so I should do xfit.

[reaper23]

(10-20-2013 11:19 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

All I know, is that when I train crossfit consistently I get big and strong as a motherfucker. Maybe it's just my body.

maybe its all relative, brother

what is "strong as a motherfucker" to you?

what numbers of the lifts mean that you are strong as a motherfucker?

also, what is big?

even the guys at the games are never much more than 195-205 lbs or so

[Duke Castile]

I never weigh much more than 220-225 but my muscularity gets freakish and my body fat goes way down, I'd say less than 5% on average.

I haven't trained consistently for more than a couple of weeks max in almost 2 years but I'm about to start back when I return to the states. I'll keep track of my numbers and post them here.

[ElJefe]

(10-20-2013 06:46 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

1400 would be pretty serious.

i will suggest that adding another 300 to the total will take more than just "hoping I can do rather quickly"

thats serious dedication to eating, sleeping, workouts...probably take what? 2 years?

2 years of serious committed dedicated work

I would really hope not! I got to 1100-1200 fairly easily (hard work + eat everything), and that was with a fucked up back so my deadlift score was way down. I've got my form down pat but haven't been sticking to a proper routine for a while. I keep a log on a training forum but I really enjoy your posts so I'll let you know how it goes.

[Giovonny]

(10-18-2013 11:17 AM)slubu Wrote:  

This is just one area of my life I can never figure out.

Learning how to manipulate your own body is just like learning Game. It can take a few years of trial and error to really figure it out. We all have different bodies and they all react differently. You just have to keep experimenting, keep grinding, and keep your focus.

I remember when you were trying to lose your gut and you were eating as much as you possibly could. I thought that was a bad idea but who knows..??

Keep educating yourself about how your body works.

(10-20-2013 11:19 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

All I know, is that when I train crossfit consistently I get big and strong as a motherfucker.

Do you use testosterone or steroids???

[reaper23]

(10-21-2013 12:03 PM)ElJefe Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 06:46 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

1400 would be pretty serious.

i will suggest that adding another 300 to the total will take more than just "hoping I can do rather quickly"

thats serious dedication to eating, sleeping, workouts...probably take what? 2 years?

2 years of serious committed dedicated work

I would really hope not! I got to 1100-1200 fairly easily (hard work + eat everything), and that was with a fucked up back so my deadlift score was way down. I've got my form down pat but haven't been sticking to a proper routine for a while. I keep a log on a training forum but I really enjoy your posts so I'll let you know how it goes.

i dont want to discourage you but adding another 200 or more lbs to the total sounds like quite a bit to me. are you still getting linear gains? if so that is incredible.

[RexImperator]

(10-21-2013 09:46 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

I never weigh much more than 220-225 but my muscularity gets freakish and my body fat goes way down, I'd say less than 5% on average.

Sounds like you are already at an elite level of fitness so I'm not sure how much your experience applies to the general population.

I think Crossfit probably works best for this type of person - they're already basically strong from some other training (traditional weightlifting, etc.) but maybe bored with that routine after some years. Crossfit keeps them interested by mixing it up and the intensity gets the body fat down so they get more lean/"ripped".

The average person sees them and thinks they need to do Crossfit to get that way.

[reaper23]

(10-21-2013 09:46 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

I never weigh much more than 220-225 but my muscularity gets freakish and my body fat goes way down, I'd say less than 5% on average.

I haven't trained consistently for more than a couple of weeks max in almost 2 years but I'm about to start back when I return to the states. I'll keep track of my numbers and post them here.

225lbs and 5% bodyfat??

that is fucking amazing man.

how tall are you?

you're an absolute freak. like less than 1% in the world freak with those kind of stats.

i'm really fucking impressed.

[MikeCF]

Frank Zane weighed 180 pounds at a height of around 5'9". In mr Olympia shape.

225 at 5% is likely an overestimation. That's a week or two away from stepping on the bodybuilding stage.

Especially all natural.

I would say if that's the case and your numbers aren't off, start a YouTube fitness channel. You will make a lot of money.

[DVY]

Fisto is built like a tank- thats the story I've heard from multiple forum members.

225 at 5% is ridiculous though. Seriously be curious to see the DEXA scan.

[Veloce]

(10-21-2013 09:46 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

I never weigh much more than 220-225 but my muscularity gets freakish and my body fat goes way down, I'd say less than 5% on average.

I haven't trained consistently for more than a couple of weeks max in almost 2 years but I'm about to start back when I return to the states. I'll keep track of my numbers and post them here.

Fisto like anyone else that's met you I can vouch that you're a pretty big mofo. (no homo)

But you've been training since high school right? If I remember your blog correctly you did wrestling and shit...surely you haven't been doing Xfit your whole life?

How did you start out and get a foundation?

[Easy E]

[PALEO DUDE]

Just thought I should warn people about a common danger in crossfit, it's called rhabdo, it's quite common in the crossfit community as well as among elite soldiers and athletes, Junior Dos Santos just suffered from it recently. Rhabdo short for Rhabdomyolysis basically occurs from overworking your muscles and what happens is the muscle cells explode and leak into your bloodstream, there have been cases where rhabdo has left people's arms dysfunctional for the rest of their lives and other cases in which their muscles simply become much weaker permanently, in these severe cases expensive surgery has to be performed immediately for proper recovery.

The main problem is cross fit trainers are aware of rhabdo yet most don't take precautions, rhabdo is most common among the beginners of cross fit but it still affects seasoned cross fitters.
If you cannot move your arm the day after your workout you might have rhabdo. Read about it to learn the symptoms and be prepared.
You've been warned.