[Leads]

I made more friends in 18 months of EE travels than 18 years in one US city. Told this to my Uber driver who said 'me too! I have zero friends'

It's a western thing I suppose, but why not turn it into a massive advantage, devoting all your time to biz/personal goals? As for friends in the US, I have very few but each can be categorized into 'crazy party folk' or 'hobby related friends' or maybe mentors

[Jack Gignac]

try reaching out to old high school/middle school friends.

there's a level of trust there that's not easy to replicate and they saw what u came from.

I connect more with them than college friends.

[ester]

I think I felt like this 6 years ago, when all my high school friends sort of 'moved on.' Sometimes it got really lonely. My advise is to take chances on people, assume the best for them even before you approach them. This will motivate you enough to say something interesting to complete strangers. If someone is not worth your friendship, you'll know with time and cut ties with him/her.

[a beer is enough]

I've long had the belief that you are who you attract when it comes to social life. We can talk about how it can be tougher after college but I have found that in this day and age, tons of people want to make new friends into their 20s at the very least. People want to be around others who are fulfilled and happy in life as well as a pleasure to be around.

No one wants to be around the guy complaining about how hard life is, even though he may have some great points. I found that even in college when I was miserable, I didn't make that many friends because I was miserable. After college I made better friends because I was happier and more fulfilled in my life.

So I think guys who are at a lack of friends need to get more social and fix what is making them miserable. I have found that pessimism tends to drive a lot of people away even though you might state some great facts. People want to be around others that are happy and fulfilled in their life journey, no one wants to be near miserable people.

I know that we focus a lot on the harsh truths of life in red pill spaces but you can't push that on to most normal people. To make friends, you have to be the guy others enjoy being in the company of or else people will find others to be around. I have witnessed it first hand, tons of people make new friends well into their 20s but they rather be around those they can have happy experiences with.

Hate to say it but in western society, even friendships are shallow.

[John Maynard]

Even when you're not complaining you still can't get friend, you have to be social, interesting, funny, aware of social behavioural signs, and street wise, otherwise the potential friends will see you as boring and worthless, then they will push you and won't respect you, just to play with you, to find a victim a "scapegoat" to pull their pressure on; not everyone, but a lot of people do that, add to this peer pressure in social circles, and you'll be sure of being bullied and ostracised.

In my experience, every relationship I had was shallow and often with others seeking only friends with benefits - after they get what they want, they'll trash you, sad to say.

Most people are rude, cold and egoistic. It's very difficult to find a true friend in this society.

[TigerTim]

It is called being a corporate slave, get used to it son.

[John Maynard]

No, I won't get used to it, and I'll never will!

I want to get out of this trash!

[Rhyme or Reason]

The advice of "be more social" is diagnosing the symptom and not the cause. Passion plays a big role here. Your social circle will be better if it comes about as an extension of your passions, and not a desire to be social in and of itself.

[shakra]

(05-10-2018 12:22 PM)Leads Wrote:  

I made more friends in 18 months of EE travels than 18 years in one US city. Told this to my Uber driver who said 'me too! I have zero friends'

I don't get this.
Of course you can meet hundreds of people by travelling and staying at hostels.
But except boring rambling and the certitude to not see them anymore for all your life after they leave in a few days/weeks, what do you get from it ?

For me they are just random guys and girls passing by.
Any junk youtube video is more interesting.

[dtpilgrim]

I'm at a moment in life where I am re-evaluating my friendships. Because I had no friends in high school, I spent a lot of time in college making a lot of new friends. Some were shoulder-to-shoulder-hobby friends, others wing men, others talk-about-life friends and so on. Because I felt I needed friends I would always put in extra effort from my part, making it a focus to attend birthdays and so on and so forth.

Now I'm at a point where I don't feel I have any "real" friends, only friends-for-fun. I don't get the sense with about 90% of my "friends" or acquaintances that they would be willing to sacrifice their own well-being to the benefit of mine, even to a degree of like 10$. I don't know if you can consider that friends, really?

Of course, I myself carry my own input as well. You get what you put out. But I feel like I've been doing something wrong because the legitimate return on investment is quantifiable LOW for 90% of people in my social network.

I need to re-evaluate for myself what I look for in "friends" or how I want to define my friendships from now on. In the past I felt I owed it to just give, give, give, because I'd otherwise have no friends. Now I'd rather enter into relationships that are going to benefit me, and I feel more like I deserve to have friends who benefit me (coming from the position where of course I will invest my equal share). I'm just a little disappointed in people in general at the moment, or maybe my expectations of a "friend" are too high.

[Donatan]

There are 2 resons for that. Because you you don't need anyone or no one needs you. Think about it.

[Ballr]

Everyone on this thread is in search of quality male friendships - why isn't there an easier way to meet people on this thread, for example?

Less reminiscing and more connecting...

Anyone got a solution? The meet-up section is pretty stale.

[Mig Picante]

(06-05-2018 06:22 PM)dtpilgrim Wrote:  

I'm at a moment in life where I am re-evaluating my friendships. Because I had no friends in high school, I spent a lot of time in college making a lot of new friends. Some were shoulder-to-shoulder-hobby friends, others wing men, others talk-about-life friends and so on. Because I felt I needed friends I would always put in extra effort from my part, making it a focus to attend birthdays and so on and so forth.

Now I'm at a point where I don't feel I have any "real" friends, only friends-for-fun. I don't get the sense with about 90% of my "friends" or acquaintances that they would be willing to sacrifice their own well-being to the benefit of mine, even to a degree of like 10$. I don't know if you can consider that friends, really?

Of course, I myself carry my own input as well. You get what you put out. But I feel like I've been doing something wrong because the legitimate return on investment is quantifiable LOW for 90% of people in my social network.

I need to re-evaluate for myself what I look for in "friends" or how I want to define my friendships from now on. In the past I felt I owed it to just give, give, give, because I'd otherwise have no friends. Now I'd rather enter into relationships that are going to benefit me, and I feel more like I deserve to have friends who benefit me (coming from the position where of course I will invest my equal share). I'm just a little disappointed in people in general at the moment, or maybe my expectations of a "friend" are too high.

What you have written resonates with me.
For a long time I felt I was putting in far more effort to maintain my friendships, especially with a few key friends from my high school who I regarded as close/good friends.

When a close friend of mine passed away and I thought I would have a support network, I found that I was on my own and they didn't really care.

In recent times I have had to objectively view my friendships under a harsh light. For example, looking at how many times do I contact a person vs how many times they contact me. Sometimes they will not even return my messages or calls.

On the plus side, considering a person was really there for me in the past needed a hand recently. I was able to give them my time and experience to put furniture together for him at short notice, perform manual labour, gardening and shifting furniture when he needed a hand. I think it surprised him as not many people are willing to help anyone else these days. Other times he has been overseas and he got a call that one of his dogs got out of the yard and were found in another suburb. His dogs are his life. When he called me, I put on a pair of shoes and got in my car and drove straight over to check his property. So yeah, you need to look at who you regard as friends and who does enough to stay in your life. I found that I had been living in the past.

[nola]

Main thing to have and retain friends is try to bring some value into someones everyday life. It's really as simple as that.

[tomzestatlu]

I must admit I kind of struggle with socializing with friends now. It´s not like I don´t have friends, but I decided to cut them off or at least see them less frequently.
They are these guys, who just flow through week and then smash themself with litres of beer a many shots of spirits. I meet some of them just because of our long friendships and because I like them as a people, but others were cut off complete.
I would like to get in touch with someone, who has different life goals. This lifestyle was fun, when I was 20, but now I am 26 and I don´t want to stay like this forever. I cut off alcohol, but not completely. Go and have few beers once a month is okay, but life just for the beer on the weekend is weak.
I can imagine ideal Friday night evening at gym, then having a coffee or shisha during some meaningful discussion and then hitting some club together.
But I don´t know anybody who is able to do this.

Currently I usually go to meet my friends who work as bouncers in clubs, so they don´t drink. But as I see drunk idiots over there, I definitely don´t feel like socializing, even not approaching any girls.
I regurarely go to gym, box, BJJ, etc. That could cover some answers.

I know that alcohol once a week isn´t big deal. But currently I really feel some kind of disgust towards it. But I admit I would love to get drunk on the other hand. But I live in country, where´s big problem with alcohol and I see too many people around falling to useless lifes just because of alcohol. Also I have many goals and alcohol slows me down on catch and I have already had enough fun with alcohol in my life.

Do you have any tips for finding likely minded people?

[Psygnosis89]

(06-12-2018 12:51 AM)Mig Picante Wrote:  

In recent times I have had to objectively view my friendships under a harsh light. For example, looking at how many times do I contact a person vs how many times they contact me. Sometimes they will not even return my messages or calls.

I've been through that also. Sometimes it's a good idea just to cut off contact if it seems you're always initiating it and see if they get back in touch.

[Thot Leader]

With money, wisdom, and the hyper connectivity afforded by social media we should be able to cultivate more and better friendships than we did ten years ago. But this does not seem to be the case for most of us.

I'm in my mid 30s and have noticed over the past couple of years that I lost most of my close friends. I've made a couple of new ones, but it's not the same. When we are young we have a capacity for bonding with others that we lose with age, experience, and trauma. So, I think it is important to try and cultivate and nurture relationships from our younger years--one of those pieces of life wisdom that used to be common knowledge but has been forgotten as our culture has been thrown down the shitter.

All of our relationships are disposable. Some of the principles affecting the marriage market also affect friendship.

If you look at the happiest and healthiest people in the world, they tend to live in villages in Greece, France, Japan, and other successful yet traditional places--places with a strong connection to the past. They have close families and often the same group of friends from childhood into old age. I think the constant stress of losing friends and then having to replace them adds to the overall stress burden that is killing us.

[John Dodds]

(06-14-2017 01:20 PM)fortysix Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 01:00 PM)soviet_dissident Wrote:  

...

The problem is that gays generally are smarter (higher IQs) than the rest of the population.

^ Why do you think this? (honest question)

Because they saw what nasty cunts women were, then avoided all contact with them, way before the rest of us.
No losing their house, pension, assets or dogs for them!

As for friends, one helped my former wife abduct my children, another banged my former wife, one died of cancer 10 years back, and another is dying of AIDs.
Most of your friends would bang your woman in a goddamned second if given the chance.
Friends aren't all that great, I can live without them.

[JoeSomebody]

"Friends" to me are vastly overrated. Almost as overrated as hot girls. All you really need are a few salt-of-the-earth type people in your life who think like-minded and will have your back no matter what. To me that's more than enough, especially in a day in age when bullshitters, extremely selfish, and self-promoting people are in abundance everywhere you look. I have a view on people who have the same circle of friends since their youth. On one hand, it's great especially if you all come from a similar train of thought, upbringing, culture, etc. That's the glue that binds you together. However the flip side of that is, you are usually a very insular person who's more than likely had minimal contact with anything outside of your little bubble. Which to me, does not allow your mind to grow and soak up knowledge about life in general. It's a little different if you come from a 2nd or 3rd world country where that might be your only option, but I'm from a suburb on the East Coast in the shadow of a major city, and there's still people who have never really travelled outside of a 10 miles radius and still smoke blunts and drink beers with the same nothing's they did with in school. To each their own, but that to me is a joke. I was fortunate enough to grow up almost purple pilled in a way, due to coming from a traditional houshold where mom stayed home and was the nurturer/homemaker and dad went to work and provided as well as being the authority figure. I had a lot of love from both, albeit tough love and lots of good advice and lessons from them both. I've absolutely had blue pill moments in my life, but I'm grateful of the background I come from because in a way I feel it has made my swallowing of the red pill fairly easy when I first went down the rabbit hole. I have a hard time looking a lot of people in the eyes these days and even starting convo (male and female) because I'm largely disgusted at the state of affairs that is America in 2019. As someone who is a social person and introverted, it hasn't been easy but I simply do not have the time or patience for people's bullshit and/or blue pill thinking, especially in men when it is so plain to see. You don't even need to read between the lines anymore. It's staring folks right in the face. The red pill, while life-changing, leads to isolation. Out of the men in this world, something like 5 to 10% are red pilled, that means for every 100 men you come in contact with, at best you'll have 10 like minded bros. It's a numbers game in a way that's stacked against you. So yes, I have only a select few that I call my friends, and I have in some ways isolated myself and axed a lot of people from my life, but once you swallow that red pill, there is no other way. Anything less will NOT work. But as I've always said, I'd rather have 5 solid friends, who'd have your back no matter what, than 500 so-so "friends".

[Jaydublin]

I've always struggled to make friends. Talking to anyone is easy for me but its business like, hard to joke and just shoot the shit. Same goes for chatting up girls.

This has been the case in the USA but while traveling in Latin America I never had this problem. People sort of just bring you in.

I spent a couple of years working in Mexico and these people just basically picked me up and pulled me into their clicks. One friend eventually explained Mexico vs America, He had spent time in the USA too. He said in America people have their clicks and you have to work your way in but in Mexico they invite everybody in and if you are too weird they kick you out. That explanation seemed about right to me.

I remember my 3rd week in Mexico, I was working for an American company there and it was my birthday. Somebody got wind that it was my birthday in the morning, probably one of my 1-2 local friends on FB. Next thing I know people are coming up to me hugging me saying "Feliz Cumpleanos". They had a big cake for me at lunch. It was slightly uncomfortable but looking back I appreciate it.

The friendships I made in those 2 years in Mexico were and are as strong as anything I made in school.

I don't know why its so hard in the USA I even remember running the bars with my high school buddies and when one of them brought somebody new in I would be pretty dry towards them until I accepted them.



Anybody having issues has to find hobbies and stick to them. Some sort of martial art in a good school is a great start. Especially BJJ. Finding a new job/career isn't a bad idea either. I usually work in factories with a bunch of married men ages 35-60 int he USA. When I was 27 this was an issue. In Latin America those same factories are full of 25-35 year olds who are hanging out and throwing cookouts and parties on the regular.

Something else that has been different for me is the region of the USA. In the south it always seemed hard to make friends even though this is where I am from. Dealing with the false christianity is tough for me. Living out west I always found it easier in Oregon and all over CA making friends. I don't like their politics but they just seemed easier to connect with. Same went for meeting girls.

[Luka]

America is a terrible place for 'genuine' friendship. Most of my friends in the states are immigrants or live outside of USA.

[Archie]

(01-31-2019 09:25 AM)Luka Wrote:  

America is a terrible place for 'genuine' friendship. Most of my friends in the states are immigrants or live outside of USA.

I completely agree with u!

[heavy]

I have to disagree with a lot of guys on this forum. I have some great friends. Friends who would have my back over women all day (except obviously their wives and family). I have a buddy who's wife is still friends with my ex-wife. There's no love gained there. He was, is, and always has been loyal to me.
It's true, as usual and as I get older, the fringe friends I see less and care about less. As I spend more time being productive, my available time is less, so I spend accordingly.
I suppose I look at them like my brothers. I don't always hang out with my brothers. I may only see them every so often. But me and my friends went through very formative college years together, living together and figuring out life.

- Not emotionally reactionary. I could easily tell my buddy he's being a fucking moron, and he'd probably laugh at it. Sports is a good test of this. I've played many a sports with my friends (golf, basketball, tackle football (back in my 20s), beer pong, darts, volleyball, fighting, etc).
- See the humor in life. My friend is telling me how his wife is having these weird bazaar episodes and going to neurologists to try to figure it out, but in the midst of the conversation we can make a joke here and there about it. (would never make those comments in front of her)
- Has his own life, motivations, work, goals, etc. I don't want to see my friends every day, every week...every other week is completely sufficient. Every month is fine. Of course, I have people I see more often than that, but it's not usually a function of better friendships, more simply activity.
- Gotta be able to give each other shit.

Given what I've read when scanning this thread, this might suck to hear, but ...Besides my close friends I have in mind as I type the above, I have pretty damn good friends in a few different social circles...even friends I've made in the last couple years. And my close friends have a few other friends in social circles. What I'm saying is, guys who have good friends are guys who people want to be friends with. Be a guy who guys want to be friends with. Which, based on what I just wrote, seems impossible. I suspect it's not impossible, any more than turning your life around is impossible.

I suspect there are some factors that normally make the "friends guy" described above. For you sensitive types, it's not to say if you don't have one or more of these, that you aren't a friends guy, or can't be a friends guy, I just suspect these would pop up on a multi regression analysis if it could be measured:
- Came from an intact family
- Strong dad, or at least not a pushover loser type
- Had brothers, or played sports
- Played sports. Lots of sports.
- If not sports (because I know there are non-sports types out there), did something where there was objective measurement of outcome, failure, competitiveness, etc. Ego deaths are important early on.
- Aren't addicted to drugs or alcohol (I've known cool friends guys who dropped off quickly with substance abuse. See my point 2 below on therapy. Don't let substances be your therapy. Let therapy be your therapy.)
- Maintain a physical lifestyle (keep moving, stay active)

My advice would be a couple things.

1. Start doing jujitsu, or at least some very physical sport. I started jujitsu over two years ago and have made a couple really good friends from it. What I like about it (and with Jocko's blessing)...time spent on the mat makes you better, more than any other sport I've done. Athleticism is less important than simply putting in the time.

2. Therapy. This just means ramble on about yourself and your life, with someone there to hit you back with good questions. Find a good guy psychologist, and or go to group therapy. It always seems like guys who aren't friends guys have sometimes have some deep seated resentment, anxiety, or something that needs to be expressed (I have some of this as well, and therapy helps a lot). (Also, I know psychologists get a bad rap, but I suspect there are more guy psychs out there who are decent psychologists if they get the right patient.)

Sorry for the rambling post, but I hopefully it helps one of you guys who are soured to the idea of good friends. I have a soft spot in my heart for lonely men. Seems there are too many of them out there.

Edit: One huge factor is not being needy, and this may offer you guys insight as to the "can't find best friends" problem. When I think of my tightest friendships, if all of a sudden we never spoke with one another again, it wouldn't kill us. It would suck. It sucked when I heard he was going to be moving away. I would mourn it (no tears unless at his funeral). But I have my life. I have my own shit together. That's why therapy is important. Don't depend on your friend for emotional support.


Edit 2: You can become a better friends guy. I'm a lot better friends guy than I was when I was in my 20s.

[Atomic]

I found myself in a pretty rough spot to start off 2019.

Dec 18 and NYE was fucking great. Tons of parties and lots of fucking. But then I melted down hard. A combination of the weather, some old bad memories that always surface in Jan, and a rough situation with a chick created a perfect storm that sent me into a deep depression. It hid hard as I have never really been depressed before and I had always seen depression as a sign of weakness.

After many nights drinking my problems away and searching for external excuses I realized that I needed to fix myself. I sat down an did a life audit.

1. I had swamped myself in work to the point I had avoided friends and family so much that days would go by without a text.
2. The only contact I had with other people was this chick and her social circle.
3. My apartment had devolved from a warm friendly inviting place, to a pure dry work environment. I didn't even realize this until a girl wanted me to go to her place because she said my apartment gave her bad vibes.

I'm in the process of fixing this.

I dialed in my diet. Strict meal plan with food prepped in advance. I started lifting again 3x a week, full body workouts. On the off days 3x a week I do yoga or random gym classes (think ab blaster, cardio boxing, etc). I took a before picture and am taking pics every 30 days to track progress. I track my exercises using a notebook planner.

I did a walk through of my apartment pretending I was a guest. I didn't have anywhere for guests to put coats, so I bought and installed a coat rack. I didn't have a bath mat in my bathroom (which some chick commented on), so I bought a bath mat. There were lots of small stuff like that which I never even thought of, but when I pretended I was a guest in my home it made me realize I needed to spruce up the place.

I had converted my living room to a work office, which is the first room any guest would see. It was completely uninviting. I reorganized and made my guest bedroom my office, and my living room an actually living room. I bought artwork that appealed to me and hung it on the walls. I installed some surround some speakers in various rooms that bluetooth to my phone. I even bought a fake plant. My apartment actually feels like an apartment again, like a place people feel warm and welcome to hang out, not just a second office.

For the social life I realized that people were not going to reach out to me. I had isolated myself so long that I had dropped off peoples radar. I needed to fix this. I started texting old friends and acquaintances inviting them out. They decline most of the time due to work / other events, but I can normally find a person to go out with or they invite me along to their events. My goal was to keep pinging people regardless of the outcome.

I started going to a weekly dance meetup. I suck at dancing, but it's fun and other people suck at it too. Every week on the dance meetup day I text everyone that may be free. Again most decline, but I can usually find a person or two to join me. If I don't, I roll solo. But slowly I'm building a "dance crew" that all go out together.

I started to initiate conversations with strangers at the gym, dance classes, yoga classes, etc. Not trying to game them, just being a friendly outgoing guy. I call friends when I'm driving just to have a quick 2-3 minute chat and catch up.

It's going good. I'm getting back to my normal happy fit self. Friends are hitting me up again seeing what my plans are. I'm making new friends from the dance meetup / random gym classes.

They key is that YOU have to make the effort. YOU have to be the one trying to organize things. YOU have to be one that is initiating conversations. When your social circle is gone, no one is going to reach out to. YOU have to take the action and make it happen again. People generally want to be friends and they want to do fun things, but YOU have to be the one that makes that happen.

[PharaohRa]

It is best to have a small core of friends that you can always rely on when the going gets tough. However, to expand your social profile, take advantage of Happy Hours, sports events, cultural events, etc. There are more options than ever to build that network, so much that the Paradox of Choice comes into play. Choose event(s) that play into your strengths and go from there.

Also, stop thinking like a beta and develop that alpha mentality to take on the world!