[Georges89]

OP, I sort of understand where you are coming from.

It's been an interesting conundrum for me since quitting alcohol also. Or at least I thought it would be.

But actually, since I went travelling a couple of months at the end of last year, when I got back, I didn't officially announce my return. So, I just meet up with friends who don't drink, or who don't care that I don't drink. Personally I avoid pub/bar/nightclub situations, because why bother.

I have a small inner circle, but I like it that way. I meet people who share my values, and I always try and make new friends, or at least am open to doing so. Although it seems that the friends I have made through school and university will always be the strongest. That said, I've filtered that circle down over the years.

I'm fortunate enough to have 'day to day' friends that I can hit up on the phone anytime, although it's a small number. I definitely 'fly under the radar' and avoid keeping up a busy social life, but I meet a lot of people out and about through new hobbies which I enjoy.

I don't have a group of friends who all know each other as such, but generally I meet various individuals on a monthly or biweekly basis for a proper catch up over food usually.

[sterlingarcher]

I second Zoom; If it's an option join an MMA/boxing gym. It's a good thing all round.

[N°6]

Part of the problem can be demonstrated by the anecdote of the Scouts in the UK. It started off as a group for boys to create a sense of ‘For God and Empire’, which used to be called ‘muscular Christianity’.

Then the pederasts joined and subsequently laws were changed to allow girls in. Apparently 70% of new scouts are girls now but the Girl Guides are strictly girls only. Likewise in British churchianity, I’ve read speculation that there will be no men left in it by 2030.

[N°6]

I saw a profile on bumble of a woman boasting that she’s a member of White Collar Fight Club which I think operates in London.

For those who know of the underlying message of Fight Club ‘to a generation of men brought up by women’ and its influence on PUA and the manosphere, the irony of women joining fight club where higher status beta men fight, will be absolutely staggering.

[kuningasvoittamaton]

I quit alcohol for a year and lost almost all of my friends. I started to drink again this year and gained a lot of friends fast. I think you should be a social drinker. Most of the social stuff happens in the weekends in the nightlife and you are losing a lot if you miss that.

[Cr33pin]

[teddy bear]

Well, losing my friends is something, that I had a hard time going through as well. I mean, it's not, that I have entirely lost them, but I used to have this tight-knit group of guys, partying, drinking together etc. and as soon as college came, it has all just fallen apart. I mean, I still talk to them, we still go out from time to time, but it's nothing like in the good, ol' days in high school, when there were parties every weekend and during the week as well. Now, you have to schedule a meeting with them - no casual brotherhood hang out anymore. You have to plan, what you gonna do, where will you go, nobody wants a spontaenous adventure anymore. Some are either in some close relationships (almost married soyboys devoted to their beloved girlfriends), some have kids and some (my best friends actually) are concerned about money, career and stuff only. It was depressing to see them go and I was mad at it many times, but eventually I have learned, that it's time to let it go, move on and focus on myself.

I mean, during college and post-college, you will meet tons of people as well, but they will never be as close to you as childhood friends simply because you can't create a bond as deep anymore. People have their own lives, they are concerned about their family, work and themselves more than "boy-stuff". I probably became like this as well a little bit, although I'm trying to fight it off - no point though, past certain point, it's only you that matter and friends gotta be secondary. Sure, I still have those friends and I can somehow relate to them, but it's not the same anymore and will never be. I still try to keep in touch with them and I want our friendship to last, but I had to realize, that it's not "me and the boys" anymore. It's "me and then the boys, that come along".

What I want to do now is to expand my social circle and live more active life. When you do some stuff all the time, travel, talk to random people and socialize with guys at work, stuff just happens anyway. Somebody will invite you here and there, you will have something to do, but letting go of my childhood friends and learning, that eventually we all go separate ways was pretty hard on me. It's perfectly normal though, that we have no real friends in our daily lives. I mean, we have to draw the line between "friends" and "friends" though. If we are talking about friends, that we can trust and share our secrets with - well, I kind of can't trust anyone these days. People are more self-concerned and it's not the same anymore. On the other hand, friends that we meet for drinks, clubbing or some house-parties, but can't really trust or have some kind of really deep, intimate conversation with will always be there. At least, that's how I see it. As long, as you are pretty active, you keep doing some stuff, you will always have some people to hang out on Friday and Saturday night, but they are just the guys, that come and go. I don't really see any way to make some real friends anymore in my life and I'm okay with that. I got used to the idea of "me" only and then some people, that are cool to hang out, expand the social circle, meet more people and fill up your time somehow.

[BlueMark]

A lot of my longtime male friends and I have drifted apart in life. Only in the past year have I begun to better understand why.

We still hang out a lot when I visit them in the state where we all went to school together. But even when we hang out, it's hard not to notice the massive divergence between my life and theirs. They're all married or cohabiting. A few have kids. They don't have as much flexibility to travel due to the limitations of their careers and the difficulty of arranging vacation time for two people.

We still have common interests that we can talk about. But not enough to go very deep, especially due to our drastically different places in life. e.g. I could talk about expatriation or game/women, but those are not interesting topics to them because of career/family commitments.

I don't blame them though. It's easy for me to learn through life experiences that there is so much more to life than the socially acceptable middle class suburban American life, since I have few commitments in life. For them, such a process of stepping into a bigger world would be hard to swallow, because facing this process would also mean facing that they missed out on a lot of potential experiences due to their choices in career and relationships. They are "plugged in" due to those choices.

[nomadbrah]

I got to say, much of this "I don't have time for friends" is bs.

At least when I hear most people talk about it. It usually means "I let my wife dictate my life" and "my wife doesn't approve of you because you're single and happy/underemployed/wrong political affiliation".

There's this idea that this is just a-ok and normal, lets just all go from work to changing diapers, while spending what little free time there is shopping with wife and hyperstimulated kids or spend it with the wife's family who always seem to have a birthday coming up.

At the very least it has to be possible to get together a couple times a month for beer/whisky. All else is because you fundamentally don't want to. Just don't come crying when the wife ditches you and you suddenly find out you have no friends left. This is even textbook, many, many books have been written about this situation.

I think it is mainly an issue of suburban living though. Everyone in their little castle of debt and you need a long drive to meet people and it has to be in the same house as children are in. Now if you're living in either the city or in the countryside, you're not going to be able to be a lazy ass Netflix watching, wife relative meeting sack of potatoes. In the city, you can just go out, meet up at the local watering hole, grab a beer, go back, all within a few hours.

Likewise, if you're living in the countryside, you better be prepared for unannounced visitors who want to drink and shoot the shit. Now if you still in these situations don't take the time, then you just don't want to spend time with friends, most likely because you're pussywhipped. I find it hilarious how some modern men in this situation try to claim it as them being "adult, responsible, taking care of family". Utter tripe! There are no more adult, masculine men, than those in my rural family and they certainly don't sit at home on the weekends changing diapers, but instead head over to family and friends for drinks and socializing. Your wife and child are not going to die and perish because you get drunk once a week.

As always, the blue collar classes and the upper classes, converge more on behavior than the feminized middle class.

[churros]

(03-16-2018 09:19 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

As always, the blue collar classes and the upper classes, converge more on behavior than the feminized middle class.

In the West, the middle class is now just a vast HR department.

[N°6]

Recently I read that the UK is the loneliest country in Europe. Of course, men (single and married) bear the brunt of this.

However the loneliest city in Europe is the capital of feminism and multiculturalism: Stockholm.

Apparently the UK has created a government minister to address the loneliness epidemic.

[asdfk]

@Nomadbrah, great post.

It is hard to stay friends when one of my buddies settles with a girlfriend. For some reason, their mind seems to close. I cannot describe it in an other way. Their life becomes about work (or creating a job if there's no need for it) and hanging out with their wife, who 9 times out of 10 seems incredibly boring to me.

[monsquid]

I'm 33 and in the last 3 years my friends have really drifted apart. We still maintain a group chat to bullshit and have a few laughs but everyone is focused on their own lives. It doesn't help that all of us are in different parts of the country.

Another thing is that getting together with friends takes significant commitment in planning, time, and money. Honestly I'm comfortable not having friends to interact with on a daily basis. I do get lonely from time to time but I think I have outgrown my deeply emotional needy loneliness. Don't get me wrong some weekends are tough, especially if it has been a while since I've had meaningful human interaction.

Modern living seems to make people also less genuinely friendly. It's funny how we are surrounded by hundreds if not thousands of people yet we are sorely lacking in human connection. There is no sense of community in most adult living situations. The reason why people make good friends in college is because there is an organized community that you are immediately put into. Also the close living in dorms and life on campus makes it easier to have spontaneous unplanned no expectations human interactions. Psychologists have identified that it's these spontaneous interactions that we enjoy the most and consequently they help develop the most interesting and rewarding relationships. It's just like how every girl dreams of being "swept away" by spontaneously meeting a guy at a coffee shop when they were least expecting it.

But adult living, especially for males, is lacking community and spontaneity. It's sad and it affects me too, but I feel helpless. Yes you can go put yourself out there, but it's emotionally draining when people are not willing to reciprocate. This is probably why a lot of men are so happy when they get into an LTR, it's a little bit of respite from this world. The feminine and emotional nature of a woman also brings a welcome contrast to the harsh rational demands that are placed on men. But there has to be a balance, we men are happiest when we can enjoy the support and affection (and sex) of a feminine women whilst having the freedom to mingle with our brothers in pursuit of adventure and achievement.

[BlueMark]

(03-18-2018 10:19 AM)monsquid Wrote:  

Modern living seems to make people also less genuinely friendly. It's funny how we are surrounded by hundreds if not thousands of people yet we are sorely lacking in human connection. There is no sense of community in most adult living situations. The reason why people make good friends in college is because there is an organized community that you are immediately put into. Also the close living in dorms and life on campus makes it easier to have spontaneous unplanned no expectations human interactions. Psychologists have identified that it's these spontaneous interactions that we enjoy the most and consequently they help develop the most interesting and rewarding relationships. It's just like how every girl dreams of being "swept away" by spontaneously meeting a guy at a coffee shop when they were least expecting it.

But adult living, especially for males, is lacking community and spontaneity. It's sad and it affects me too, but I feel helpless. Yes you can go put yourself out there, but it's emotionally draining when people are not willing to reciprocate. This is probably why a lot of men are so happy when they get into an LTR, it's a little bit of respite from this world. The feminine and emotional nature of a woman also brings a welcome contrast to the harsh rational demands that are placed on men. But there has to be a balance, we men are happiest when we can enjoy the support and affection (and sex) of a feminine women whilst having the freedom to mingle with our brothers in pursuit of adventure and achievement.

College has two things going for it, in addition to the structured community.
1. It's a new experience, and for many, the first step outside of the sheltered bubble of middle class high school life. Everyone is open to the experience.
2. It presents a shared goal and challenge for men in the form of classes -- at least for those of us who were overachievers. This made it natural for us to work together on homework and deal with the dragons that we had to slay: midterms, finals, labs, projects, etc.

Post-college is much more vague. There's no one telling you what classes you have to take to get that degree. There's no more common challenge to overcome. People get comfortable in their routines.

Combine that with the societal message that the next step is to find your soul mate, instead of discovering a life mission for yourself, and you get men who just live with no greater purpose.

[monsquid]

(03-18-2018 11:18 PM)BlueMark Wrote:  

College has two things going for it, in addition to the structured community.
1. It's a new experience, and for many, the first step outside of the sheltered bubble of middle class high school life. Everyone is open to the experience.
2. It presents a shared goal and challenge for men in the form of classes -- at least for those of us who were overachievers. This made it natural for us to work together on homework and deal with the dragons that we had to slay: midterms, finals, labs, projects, etc.

Post-college is much more vague. There's no one telling you what classes you have to take to get that degree. There's no more common challenge to overcome. People get comfortable in their routines.

Combine that with the societal message that the next step is to find your soul mate, instead of discovering a life mission for yourself, and you get men who just live with no greater purpose.

When I returned to full time graduate school at 32 I was surprised by the prevalence of conservative attitudes in college. Even though I was going to a state school in the mid Atlantic, I thought the students would be very liberal or as liberal as the media had made them out to be. But it was quite the opposite. I took this to mean that students are free to safely "try on a" persona during their four years of bubble universe. However, a lot of them come from conservative or established middle class families. Sure a few "discover" themselves but majority will revert to the ways they were brought up by family few years after college.

What this makes me question is whether as grown "red pill men" we are seeking like minded individuals for friends. If that is the case then we are surely to be disappointed as most of society is decidedly blue pill or just ignorant.

[Ranch Hand]

Try sending post-cards to friends/associates while you are out of town. I started this as a lark on a recent trip: sent cards to about 6 neighbors and friends, several of which I hardly knew. Each person has responded how much they appreciate a card. It doesn't have to be an exotic location - a card is cool from anywhere. I've followed up with invites to dinner, barbecue, etc., and been invited to hang out with each card recipient. Come to find out a neighbor guy is going through a nasty, long and expensive divorce. He's a recovering alcoholic and has to guard himself socially, so he is a bit isolated. You never know how a friendly hand will be received or what it may mean to someone.

Monsquid, I only go red-pill with a "ready" recipient or with young guys (early 20's) that seek advice from an older guy. If a guy is decidedly blue pill, I know the relation will have natural limits, but we can still be friends so long as he doesn't limit my lifestyle/mindset.

[Pointer]

I've always been a lone wolf rather than a pack leader/follower and went my own way many times when the group was going something I didn't enjoy. It served me well so far but hasn't helped make a ton of friends.
If you want true happiness you need to find it within. I treasure the time I can spend alone focused on watching a good movie or reading an interesting book, especially since I don't have a lot of it.

The other day I was talking to a colleague that has an minor accident and was supposed to be on sick leave for a week. Instead he was working from home. I asked him why ? He said ''I'm bored and I hate sitting alone at home''. That's very sad to hear. I would completely forget that I have to go back to work...

[Lermontov]

(03-18-2018 03:07 AM)asdfk Wrote:  

@Nomadbrah, great post.

It is hard to stay friends when one of my buddies settles with a girlfriend. For some reason, their mind seems to close. I cannot describe it in an other way. Their life becomes about work (or creating a job if there's no need for it) and hanging out with their wife, who 9 times out of 10 seems incredibly boring to me.

My childhood and best friend of mine met his current wife six years ago. We're both in our early thirties and went to the same primary school, high school and college. Before his marriage, we used to see eachother almost every week. Since then, it has dropped to 3-5 times a year and usually it's a social gathering with other people or with his wife. He became a different person and like you describe, it really seems like his mind has closed. He is never available for a coffee or a drink, and he only lives at a 15 minute walking distance from me. He rarely returned his phone calls. It's absurd and painful at the same time to see that friendship drift apart. He is like a zombie, it's so weird. Like his empathy and social awareness dropped suddenly since what he claimed was ''love at first sight'' with his wife. All of his free time is spent with his wife. I gave up trying to meet up with him. For some weird reason, he is only interested in texting. On top of that, now he has two kids so I guess it will never get better. Maybe that if he gets divorce some day, he will wake up with no friend and understand what was going on.

[Dragan]

I would tell you not to worry so much man, just find a niche. Just try to make the effort to be social. If you are high intelligence, it is hard to find good friends. I would suggest meeting polyglots, science enthusiasts, classical musical people, or meeting people in some sort of intellectual group (or a food club, film club, etc.).

[bgbusiness]

The first quarter of 2018 has ended.
I made some "friends" who I just nod when I see them around. (I am in my final year in college)
I added maybe 10 people on FB so far this year. They are my classmates and they are in my group for projects.

That's about it. I almost feel like I still over-leveraged myself and made too many "friends" or "acquaintances" because one guy turned out to be a massive drinker/smoker/partier. I should have vetted or screen him out earlier...

However, overall, very productive Q1 2018.
(I would rather get close and make connections with a professor or two rather than making 20+ friends on FB.)

[stugatz]

I work at a very impersonal job where it's very tough to make friends - and in my side gig, I have very few customers and almost no coworkers.

I live with a guy I'm not too fond of who's from a social circle I drifted away from long ago ever since I stopped almost all my drinking. He'll invite former friends from the circle over sometimes, and I'm usually not too pleased to see them.

I'm just too busy to have any real friends right now, as I work 50 hours a week at the moment. Hopefully that'll change soon this summer with free time. Girls would be nice to have in my life, too...dating is a LOT of work, though, and I am not going to half-ass that anymore.

[ChefAllDay]

I think in practice most men have very few actual friends, maybe 1 or 2, the rest are drinking buddies, hockey teammates, work associates & etc. This to me makes sense from an evolutionary stand point because what we really need is 1-2 close friends we can actually trust, and a team, tribe or clan of like minded guys we can hunt, play or work with to get shit done.

When you do find a real friend, he shouldn't really be a friend, he should be a brother who would when required defend you from attack physical or verbal if needed, whether you were there to defend yourself or not. (edit - especially if you're not there to defend yourself)

So, I wouldn't sweat it. Make the time to do some social activities you actually enjoy. The rest will fall into place.

I would forewarn you to screen and watch for the same red flags you look for in women though. You don't want a friend you need to be worried about.

[a beer is enough]

Thread definitely caught my eye, had to comment but I am still in my 20s, so not that sure of what is to come once I hit the next decade of life.

I actually made quite a few friends after college, in fact it was easier for me despite having gone to a huge state university, here is what I did:

1. Moved to a younger part of a major US city, the part that all of the "young professionals" flock to and got involved in the neighborhood. Activities were all people in their 20s and even met a couple of hot girls from them (dodgeball, kickball, soccer and an acting class). Tons of people from various universities moving there and a lot of bars dedicated to certain schools, college football season was crazy!

2. Got involved in activities for the weekend and made a few close friends from there, we went out and did a lot of fun things together. One night I actually hit the club with the kickball team and had a great night to remember, there was eight of us going out together.

3. Made friends with some coworkers and younger people from other companies at networking events and happy hours, some of them ended up as great friends to hang out with and a couple of guys had access to some legit social circles.

I am actually not finding that many people in their mid or even late twenties wanting to get married these days, most I find are still living the YOLO party lifestyle. Even met a couple cool guys in their 30s, one who does photography, that party hard and get hot girls but they travel too much for me to make close friends with them. One of them taught me a great deal about game, especially cold approaching.

It is interesting to see, I wonder if in the coming years and decade, it actually becomes easier for guys entering their 30s to make friends giving how the marriage rate is going down and everyone seems to check out of traditional monogamy.

I have had an easier time making new friends in a big city in my early and mid-twenties than I did in college where everyone was real cliquish.

[Easy_C]

Eh I actually don't right now. I'm in a new city and have a study project that requires every bit of time I can give it and a new kid. I simply don't go out because any time spent socializing is time that negatively impacts my ability to leave a job I hate.

[BlueResolute]

I lost friends, either cause they moved or just had more priorities in life. But my biggest heart-aching loss of friends have been through the whole political atmosphere. My ideals clashed with theirs and as a result they cut me out of their lives. At the same time, I got away from some who were just downright negative, and being a drain on my emotions and passion to be successful. It sucks cause in the end, it's out of my hands as far as fixing those things. I'm still young, so losing friends is tougher on the psyche for me.