[Polniy_Sostav]

Well the main danger is the westernization of ukrainian society. All the propaganda and all the consumerism.
This will change women into basic western women. But calculations of the globalist side were wrong and they did not understand that , apart from some parts in the West , it will be virtually impossible to derussify Ukraine as it is in people's DNA (+ Soviet influence). It will take at least 2-3 generations until Russian will start to be a minority language in Kiev (if it ever will be) and the growing corruption and intense chaos in bureaucracy will intensify will be a guarantee Ukraine will never develop. There will be only individual success stories ( mostly local IT workers paid half-illegally in USD by western companies hiding taxes) , and these individuals will either emigrate or help keeping prices artificially high for the average Ukrainian.
For anyone working for local companies like i did for almost two years ,it is obvious that Ukraine , even with a strong ideological shift , will remain poor and will always trail . This will ensure that a pool of white girls will always be here and somewhat available .
But - now , their choice is bigger. They can just take a plane and find a guy or a job (especially in Poland). This means that Ukraine as a whole will get poorer. Just ukrainians will mix a bit more with the West.
Anyway , the same amount (if not more) of people are also emigrating to Russia to find a job. Ukraine is an almost impossible country to manage and both Russia and EU will never make great use of it , the only point is to take advantage of them , but it is so unstable country that there will never be a clear agenda working. I believe the traditional proximity to Russia will win on long term.

We may just see a few generate Instagram sluts travelling to Italy instead of travelling to Turkey.

The american-EU coup in Ukraine was similar to what Soviet Union did to Afghanistan : It was too much , and it will backfire them

PS : There are many non-EU countries where no-schengen visa is possible . Albania , Serbia , Bosnia , and possibly soon Kosovo. This hasn't damaged the girls too much. When a society keeps being poor , traditions will remain somehow.

Ukraine is falling since its creation , but will never crumble

[diego69]

Updated info on Visa free to EU effect:
1. There are girls(and guys) which have money working in the IT industry, even here salaries of programmers are 1000$-3000$ monthly or even more for experts and there are quite a few girls I know who earns it and travel abroad on their own expense.
2. Even low salary girls 200-250$ a month are taking bus/train travel to Poland mostly which is not that expensive and some have/use to have a Polish boyfriend and tried their luck working illegally there. Especially girls from west Ukraine.
3. What Roosh wrote on the start of the post is about girls that being financed to travel abroad to guys, it also happens more but not in vast scale like I saw for example in Minsk - or... the Ukrainian girls are more smart/conservative and do not publish their abroad trip photos on their Instagram.
4. Ryan air and Wizz air increasing a lot their flights mostly to Kiev and Lviv, so those two are getting westernized quicker, not to mention Lviv itself with +2500 hotels become popular destination for cheap travel, flight to London/Munich/Stockholm from/to Kiev/Lviv are as low as 10 Euro one way and many guys from those countries coming more and more, you can see it in CS meetings- 80% men, as the foreign people that coming are almost exclusively males. This is even without counting Turks... No English speakers in Lviv? hahaha...
To sum it up- Yeah, it has a negative effect, and yes results are getting poorer, saying that, it is still and will be for a while the best destination for Slavic girls lovers, why? sheer amount of girls 7+, low obesity in under 30s and the negative issues of Russia/Belarus which I will not write here.

Its like coming in the end of a great buffet meal but still can find something nice to grab.

[BangBoy123]

(11-13-2018 03:32 AM)diego69 Wrote:  

Updated info on Visa free to EU effect:
1. There are girls(and guys) which have money working in the IT industry, even here salaries of programmers are 1000$-3000$ monthly or even more for experts and there are quite a few girls I know who earns it and travel abroad on their own expense.
2. Even low salary girls 200-250$ a month are taking bus/train travel to Poland mostly which is not that expensive and some have/use to have a Polish boyfriend and tried their luck working illegally there. Especially girls from west Ukraine.
3. What Roosh wrote on the start of the post is about girls that being financed to travel abroad to guys, it also happens more but not in vast scale like I saw for example in Minsk - or... the Ukrainian girls are more smart/conservative and do not publish their abroad trip photos on their Instagram.
4. Ryan air and Wizz air increasing a lot their flights mostly to Kiev and Lviv, so those two are getting westernized quicker, not to mention Lviv itself with +2500 hotels become popular destination for cheap travel, flight to London/Munich/Stockholm from/to Kiev/Lviv are as low as 10 Euro one way and many guys from those countries coming more and more, you can see it in CS meetings- 80% men, as the foreign people that coming are almost exclusively males. This is even without counting Turks... No English speakers in Lviv? hahaha...
To sum it up- Yeah, it has a negative effect, and yes results are getting poorer, saying that, it is still and will be for a while the best destination for Slavic girls lovers, why? sheer amount of girls 7+, low obesity in under 30s and the negative issues of Russia/Belarus which I will not write here.

Its like coming in the end of a great buffet meal but still can find something nice to grab.

Yes Lvov has become very much like Poland, hordes of Western Tourists now outside of winter. As you say there are 10 Euro flights to EU, plus a direct quality train from Poland. In Lvov itself there are multi million Euro hotels and restaurants opening up, to accommodate them. Air traffic to Lvov has increased by 40% in only one year, and that's pre-Ryanair. If you go onto Tinder you will be hard pressed to get a match with any girl more than a 7, because any girl over 21 with any value has scarpered, also which decent girl wants to go onto Tinder and get 100's of messages from Turks and Arabs "$100 for the Vegena?!", the only ones are whores.

There are now 2 Million Ukropi working in Poland, I think it's almost better to be in Poland to get Ukrainian girls, many will be doing under the table work such as working in hostels, so they would love to have a daddy with his own place.

Again about Lvov, the nightlife was never good but now it has nosedived. The clubs make you feel you are in EU and not in Ukraine, with a sausage concentration rate of over 70%, most of whom are foreigners, the Ukrainian men don't want to go because most can't match the foreigners and it's better for them to meet girls in other social environments.

As you say, Kiev has become worse also, but not to the extent of Lvov, it's a bigger city. The good news is that Ukraine is a large country, with many big cities were foreigners(especially Westerners) are still fairly rare:Mariupol, Zaporozye, Krivy Rog, Zhytomyr, Poltava etc etc.

The sweet spot in these cities for age is 18-21, get them before they migrate to the larger cities or out of the country altogether. Also these are not the places to go for your average love tourist on a time schedule, unless you have pipelined significantly prior to your arrival.

[eck]

(11-13-2018 03:32 AM)diego69 Wrote:  

Updated info on Visa free to EU effect:
1. There are girls(and guys) which have money working in the IT industry, even here salaries of programmers are 1000$-3000$ monthly or even more for experts and there are quite a few girls I know who earns it and travel abroad on their own expense.
2. Even low salary girls 200-250$ a month are taking bus/train travel to Poland mostly which is not that expensive and some have/use to have a Polish boyfriend and tried their luck working illegally there. Especially girls from west Ukraine.
3. What Roosh wrote on the start of the post is about girls that being financed to travel abroad to guys, it also happens more but not in vast scale like I saw for example in Minsk - or... the Ukrainian girls are more smart/conservative and do not publish their abroad trip photos on their Instagram.
4. Ryan air and Wizz air increasing a lot their flights mostly to Kiev and Lviv, so those two are getting westernized quicker, not to mention Lviv itself with +2500 hotels become popular destination for cheap travel, flight to London/Munich/Stockholm from/to Kiev/Lviv are as low as 10 Euro one way and many guys from those countries coming more and more, you can see it in CS meetings- 80% men, as the foreign people that coming are almost exclusively males. This is even without counting Turks... No English speakers in Lviv? hahaha...
To sum it up- Yeah, it has a negative effect, and yes results are getting poorer, saying that, it is still and will be for a while the best destination for Slavic girls lovers, why? sheer amount of girls 7+, low obesity in under 30s and the negative issues of Russia/Belarus which I will not write here.

Its like coming in the end of a great buffet meal but still can find something nice to grab.

Wow, last time I was in lviv it was not that bad. I went there 4 times las year, all of them during winter. I got lots of IOIs, way more than in kiev (almost nothing there), being myself a spaniard, kind of short but with good style. I observed a lot of tourism there, mainly from other parts of ukraine, belarus and poland. There were no stag parties, but from time to time you could see a bunch of drunk brits or germans. So far it is a destination for backpackers, but maybe new flight routes will put lviv on the map.

About belarus and russia, is that bad the suggar-daddy issue? I am planning to go to minsk and Peter next catholic easter, to test the waters before moving 7 months outside Spain, I wouldn’t like to make a mistake...plan A for me is Lviv still.

[Endless Escapes]

(11-13-2018 03:32 AM)diego69 Wrote:  

...
4. Ryan air and Wizz air increasing a lot their flights mostly to Kiev and Lviv, so those two are getting westernized quicker, not to mention Lviv itself with +2500 hotels become popular destination for cheap travel, flight to London/Munich/Stockholm from/to Kiev/Lviv are as low as 10 Euro one way and many guys from those countries coming more and more, you can see it in CS meetings- 80% men, as the foreign people that coming are almost exclusively males. This is even without counting Turks... No English speakers in Lviv? hahaha...
To sum it up- Yeah, it has a negative effect, and yes results are getting poorer, saying that, it is still and will be for a while the best destination for Slavic girls lovers, why? sheer amount of girls 7+, low obesity in under 30s and the negative issues of Russia/Belarus which I will not write here.

Its like coming in the end of a great buffet meal but still can find something nice to grab.

Also flights to Kharkiv are on the cheap now!

As for couch surfing, I hosted some Ukrainian girls, but don't do it anymore. They are just greedy, want to stay free of charge, want to eat free of charge and that's it. On the other hand, when I need a couch in the Ukrainia, they are all of a sudden out of town...

Yes, Westernization is in full swing

[Rocha]

(11-13-2018 03:32 AM)diego69 Wrote:  

Updated info on Visa free to EU effect:
1. There are girls(and guys) which have money working in the IT industry, even here salaries of programmers are 1000$-3000$ monthly or even more for experts and there are quite a few girls I know who earns it and travel abroad on their own expense.
2. Even low salary girls 200-250$ a month are taking bus/train travel to Poland mostly which is not that expensive and some have/use to have a Polish boyfriend and tried their luck working illegally there. Especially girls from west Ukraine.
3. What Roosh wrote on the start of the post is about girls that being financed to travel abroad to guys, it also happens more but not in vast scale like I saw for example in Minsk - or... the Ukrainian girls are more smart/conservative and do not publish their abroad trip photos on their Instagram.
4. Ryan air and Wizz air increasing a lot their flights mostly to Kiev and Lviv, so those two are getting westernized quicker, not to mention Lviv itself with +2500 hotels become popular destination for cheap travel, flight to London/Munich/Stockholm from/to Kiev/Lviv are as low as 10 Euro one way and many guys from those countries coming more and more, you can see it in CS meetings- 80% men, as the foreign people that coming are almost exclusively males. This is even without counting Turks... No English speakers in Lviv? hahaha...
To sum it up- Yeah, it has a negative effect, and yes results are getting poorer, saying that, it is still and will be for a while the best destination for Slavic girls lovers, why? sheer amount of girls 7+, low obesity in under 30s and the negative issues of Russia/Belarus which I will not write here.

Its like coming in the end of a great buffet meal but still can find something nice to grab.

Like meat and fish bones?

[BaatumMania]

I'm envious of the guys who did long trips to Ukraine before 2010.

The situation wasn't that good for me when I visited Kiev this year. A lot of foreign men in Kiev. Most of my Tinder matches were asking for money. I did get a date with a skinny blonde girl but no flag from her (because I had to leave the country before we could arrange a 2nd meeting).

The girl situation was better in Zaporozhye but it still wasn't an Asia in terms of ease.

Of course Ukraine has a stupid long winter so if I wanted to try it again I would have to wait until May or something. I am a little tempted because Zaporozhye and Dnipro are both on taxi apps and there's less foreign men mucking around in those two cities (but they were noticeably present because too many countries send people to study in Ukraine. And a lot of these people probably have parents wealthier than most Ukrainians. So foreign men aren't exotic I think).

[BaatumMania]

Tinder and Instagram is probably bad evidence, because of various biases involved, but to me a lot of young Ukrainian women have been on trips throughout Europe.

It's weird as hell to see because other nationalities of women don't seem to travel as much as them. Which makes you wonder how these Ukrainian girls are affording these trips. Ukraine definitely has a ton of low-key sponsoring and prostitution in their culture.

(11-13-2018 03:32 AM)diego69 Wrote:  

Updated info on Visa free to EU effect:
1. There are girls(and guys) which have money working in the IT industry, even here salaries of programmers are 1000$-3000$ monthly or even more for experts and there are quite a few girls I know who earns it and travel abroad on their own expense.

I met a woman off Tinder who had a Masters' in programming and she wasn't making high wages like you claimed here. So I guess your number here probably refers to higher ranked workers in IT and technology.

(11-13-2018 03:32 AM)diego69 Wrote:  

Ryan air and Wizz air increasing a lot their flights mostly to Kiev and Lviv, so those two are getting westernized quicker, not to mention Lviv itself with +2500 hotels become popular destination for cheap travel, flight to London/Munich/Stockholm from/to Kiev/Lviv are as low as 10 Euro one way and many guys from those countries coming more and more, you can see it in CS meetings- 80% men, as the foreign people that coming are almost exclusively males. This is even without counting Turks... No English speakers in Lviv? hahaha...

I took a normal Ukrainian airline but on the bus within the airport - it was like what you just said... Pretty much 80%+ of people on this bus were guys under 45 with dark skin and they were either Turks or Arabs.

You know in the old days I thought Eastern Europe was going to stay a white place but it looks like multiculturalism is taking it over too.

Looks like if someone really wants to pound out Eastern Europe one has to stick to tiny places or maybe venture as far as Siberia to avoid the Middle Eastern sex tourists.

[diego69]

(11-13-2018 05:14 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Like meat and fish bones?

Not at all, now I have a permanent girl in late 20s, solid 7, body maybe even 8 so maybe its not the caviar but its the salmon. Still better than McDonalds.
In 2014 I had permanent girl in early 20s, 7.5 and she was the one pushing me for dates- it was much easier.

(11-13-2018 11:45 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

I met a woman off Tinder who had a Masters' in programming and she wasn't making high wages like you claimed here. So I guess your number here probably refers to higher ranked workers in IT and technology.

Looks like if someone really wants to pound out Eastern Europe one has to stick to tiny places or maybe venture as far as Siberia to avoid the Middle Eastern sex tourists.

Average programmer salary in Ukraine is 2000$:
https://www.payscale.com/research/UA/Job...per/Salary

Problem with remote places like Siberia, 2nd/3rd tier in Russian or even 3rd tier Ukraine is that less girls are open to go out with a foreigner and those places tend to be awfully boring for a foreign guy.

[BaatumMania]

(11-14-2018 07:06 AM)diego69 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 05:14 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Like meat and fish bones?

Not at all, now I have a permanent girl in late 20s, solid 7, body maybe even 8 so maybe its not the caviar but its the salmon. Still better than McDonalds.
In 2014 I had permanent girl in early 20s, 7.5 and she was the one pushing me for dates- it was much easier.

(11-13-2018 11:45 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

I met a woman off Tinder who had a Masters' in programming and she wasn't making high wages like you claimed here. So I guess your number here probably refers to higher ranked workers in IT and technology.

Looks like if someone really wants to pound out Eastern Europe one has to stick to tiny places or maybe venture as far as Siberia to avoid the Middle Eastern sex tourists.

Average programmer salary in Ukraine is 2000$:
https://www.payscale.com/research/UA/Job...per/Salary

Problem with remote places like Siberia, 2nd/3rd tier in Russian or even 3rd tier Ukraine is that less girls are open to go out with a foreigner and those places tend to be awfully boring for a foreign guy.

What's Zaporozhye considered then? I made a brief data sheet on it (describing how it was an industrial shithole) but my Tinder was blowing up there and I saw some really ugly short Middle Eastern guys with hot babes there.

But it's not a place I would want to live. That's kind of the problem with dating the girls from these 2nd and 3rd tier places - she might just stomp her foot and say she's not going anywhere else.

[ManX]

(11-14-2018 11:23 AM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 07:06 AM)diego69 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 05:14 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Like meat and fish bones?

Not at all, now I have a permanent girl in late 20s, solid 7, body maybe even 8 so maybe its not the caviar but its the salmon. Still better than McDonalds.
In 2014 I had permanent girl in early 20s, 7.5 and she was the one pushing me for dates- it was much easier.

(11-13-2018 11:45 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

I met a woman off Tinder who had a Masters' in programming and she wasn't making high wages like you claimed here. So I guess your number here probably refers to higher ranked workers in IT and technology.

Looks like if someone really wants to pound out Eastern Europe one has to stick to tiny places or maybe venture as far as Siberia to avoid the Middle Eastern sex tourists.

Average programmer salary in Ukraine is 2000$:
https://www.payscale.com/research/UA/Job...per/Salary

Problem with remote places like Siberia, 2nd/3rd tier in Russian or even 3rd tier Ukraine is that less girls are open to go out with a foreigner and those places tend to be awfully boring for a foreign guy.

What's Zaporozhye considered then? I made a brief data sheet on it (describing how it was an industrial shithole) but my Tinder was blowing up there and I saw some really ugly short Middle Eastern guys with hot babes there.

But it's not a place I would want to live. That's kind of the problem with dating the girls from these 2nd and 3rd tier places - she might just stomp her foot and say she's not going anywhere else.

Will you ever stop going on about Zaporozyhe? You got a few Tinder matches, and a few Arabs have got hot girls there, sounds like you think it's the garden of Eden.

Girls are unlikely to want to stay in Zaporozyhe unless they have a rich man there, it's a shithole of epic proportions

[diego69]

(11-14-2018 11:23 AM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

What's Zaporozhye considered then? I made a brief data sheet on it (describing how it was an industrial shithole) but my Tinder was blowing up there and I saw some really ugly short Middle Eastern guys with hot babes there.

But it's not a place I would want to live. That's kind of the problem with dating the girls from these 2nd and 3rd tier places - she might just stomp her foot and say she's not going anywhere else.

I haven't been there.
But I saw it in Minsk and all was for P4P so it doesn't mean its easy for the casual player which not doing P4P.

[Shemp]

I'm not sure why Zaporizhyia is such a shithole. They have the same things other cities have: parks, restaurants, shipping centers. The average Soviet era apartment building looks dismal on the outside, but they can be renovated inside. Weather sucks, but it also sucks all over northern and eastern Europe plus the whole eastern USA. My own experience is that leisure time is what really makes life enjoyable. In a place like NYC, you have no leisure time unless you're a trust fund baby because yiy have to work like crazy to pay the high cost of living. But a foreigner with location independent income or savings, and living in Zaporizhyia, often has a high standard of living by local standards without much work, and so plenty of leisure time.

The big issue with Zaporizhyia and the other second the cities in FSU is that very few people speak fluent English. They all study English now, and have been studying in high school for 20 years now, but it's like with Spanish and American students: they just don't bother learning . If they want to leave Ukraine for work, the obvious place to go is Russia, and so why bother learning English? You really have to speak Russian to thrive in these second tier cities.

[BaatumMania]

(11-14-2018 07:43 PM)Shemp Wrote:  

I'm not sure why Zaporizhyia is such a shithole.

Just go for yourself. A million potholes in September. Dust is everywhere. A lot of areas lack sidewalks. Hardcore alcoholics and mentally ill people loitering around. One of the worst crime rates in Ukraine. Factories within the city confines creates a lot of bad air pollution. The one girl who kept in touch with me said almost none got gas until November (meaning they probably had to sleep with 3 to 6 blankets for awhile).


Also you're not saving much money by going to Ukraine. One could go to Georgia (like I did) or even Thailand and have a much higher quality of life and yet pay the same prices.

[ManX]

Neighbouring Krivoy Rog didn't even have any heating for the last two weeks!

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/11/u...37701.html

Shemp, I think you should go there, must be plenty of girls looking for a man to warm them up

[Shemp]

>>Just go for yourself.

I've been there. Also Dnipro, which someone in your Zaporozhye thread denigrated as worse. Whereas I thought Dnipro had particularly nice parks. Visited both in the summer and enjoyed my time in both. Cities are cities. I wouldn't hesitate to stay in Zaporizhyia or Dnipro if I had a girlfriend there like I have in Kyiv. Main problem with those cities, and all of Ukraine, is lack of well paying jobs, but that doesn't affect us foreigners. True that Ukraine no cheaper than Georgia, however. Haven't visited Georgia yet.

[ManX]

Yeah Dnepro is definitely better, at least in Dnepro you have have something that resemble a centre, in Zaporozyhe you have one massive long soviet street.

Ugly soviet cities were designed with nice parks to stop the residents taking a swandive off their apartment blocks.

Lack of well paid jobs is one of the bonuses of the city