[Skank_Hunt]

Yes, the effect of social media blows women's options through the roof and allows her to see her value on the global market. She's no longer just a humble girl from the village, she's a hot "instagram model" with XXk followers and offers from all over the world. Even if a girl isn't particularly active on social media, through it, she knows that she has an infinite supply of options. Knowing that you will never be lonely is a powerful thing.

Before all this internet and social media and smartphone stuff took off, women actually had at least some degree of scarcity. Even if a czech or polish girl is quite closed and reserved and chooses a boring local guy, she is nonetheless aware on some level of what she could get instead, and her value on the global - not just local polish - market. This allows her to wield most of the power in any relationship.

PUAs may not outnumber girls, that would be insane, but the cumulative effect of the past 20 years means that every girl either has personal experience of the foreigner P&D or has seen friend(s) experience it or has simply been warned by family and friends to stick to local men as foreigners are (insert not entirely untrue stereotypes here).

I wonder which has had the most negative impact out of the two - poor reputation foreigners/PUAs/P&D or the internet/smartphones.

[Enhanced Eddie]

Past P&D's aren't the issue... that presupposes that girls only want men who will commit to them, which is not the case.
Girls are more than fine with casual flings under many (not all) circumstances).
Also, locals P&D too.

[Crash_Bandicoot]

(06-23-2018 05:26 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

Crash Bandicoot what countries have you been to? When I spent 6 weeks vacationing in Colombia with a Peruvian girl many times when I left her alone in a park, etc for a little while, to go do something (e.g. find a hostel, book a tour, etc) I would come back and see some Colombian guy (or guys) trying to talk to her.

That's interesting - in my experiences, I have almost never seen anyone daygame. Let's break it down a bit to locals and foreigners:

Locals: I've traveled all over Latin America and parts of Europe and have never seen a local approach a woman. For example, In places like Mexico and Colombia, the local men stare at the women like creeps and maybe even howl, but I have never seen any of them day approach, ever. In Ukraine I also never saw any local men doing day approaches - and I couldn't seen approaching from a local being an acceptable thing in a place like Ukraine....cold people

Travelers/Foreigners: I've lived in hostels throughout my travels, in say, Latin America and have walked around and partied with a ton of gringos. THe idea of daygame to all of them was non-existent, and even when they did see a pretty girl, I never saw a backpacker approach any of them because they were just afraid.

I will say that in Ukraine I saw a ton of Turkish sex tourists howling at women and staring at them...but they were too much of pansies to actually approach. For the ones that did approach (which was very rare), they were unbelievable creepy and had no idea of how conversation dynamics worked...."hey beautiful, what are you doing baby?" lol

I don't think daygame will ever be popular...it just requires too much balls and practice

[dontuan]

(07-01-2018 04:54 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 05:26 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

Crash Bandicoot what countries have you been to? When I spent 6 weeks vacationing in Colombia with a Peruvian girl many times when I left her alone in a park, etc for a little while, to go do something (e.g. find a hostel, book a tour, etc) I would come back and see some Colombian guy (or guys) trying to talk to her.

That's interesting - in my experiences, I have almost never seen anyone daygame. Let's break it down a bit to locals and foreigners:

Locals: I've traveled all over Latin America and parts of Europe and have never seen a local approach a woman. For example, In places like Mexico and Colombia, the local men stare at the women like creeps and maybe even howl, but I have never seen any of them day approach, ever. In Ukraine I also never saw any local men doing day approaches - and I couldn't seen approaching from a local being an acceptable thing in a place like Ukraine....cold people

Travelers/Foreigners: I've lived in hostels throughout my travels, in say, Latin America and have walked around and partied with a ton of gringos. THe idea of daygame to all of them was non-existent, and even when they did see a pretty girl, I never saw a backpacker approach any of them because they were just afraid.

I will say that in Ukraine I saw a ton of Turkish sex tourists howling at women and staring at them...but they were too much of pansies to actually approach. For the ones that did approach (which was very rare), they were unbelievable creepy and had no idea of how conversation dynamics worked...."hey beautiful, what are you doing baby?" lol

I don't think daygame will ever be popular...it just requires too much balls and practice

When was the last time you were in Ukraine? Is is still mostly turkish sex tourists and old guys?

[Crash_Bandicoot]

(07-01-2018 05:22 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 04:54 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 05:26 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

Crash Bandicoot what countries have you been to? When I spent 6 weeks vacationing in Colombia with a Peruvian girl many times when I left her alone in a park, etc for a little while, to go do something (e.g. find a hostel, book a tour, etc) I would come back and see some Colombian guy (or guys) trying to talk to her.

That's interesting - in my experiences, I have almost never seen anyone daygame. Let's break it down a bit to locals and foreigners:

Locals: I've traveled all over Latin America and parts of Europe and have never seen a local approach a woman. For example, In places like Mexico and Colombia, the local men stare at the women like creeps and maybe even howl, but I have never seen any of them day approach, ever. In Ukraine I also never saw any local men doing day approaches - and I couldn't seen approaching from a local being an acceptable thing in a place like Ukraine....cold people

Travelers/Foreigners: I've lived in hostels throughout my travels, in say, Latin America and have walked around and partied with a ton of gringos. THe idea of daygame to all of them was non-existent, and even when they did see a pretty girl, I never saw a backpacker approach any of them because they were just afraid.

I will say that in Ukraine I saw a ton of Turkish sex tourists howling at women and staring at them...but they were too much of pansies to actually approach. For the ones that did approach (which was very rare), they were unbelievable creepy and had no idea of how conversation dynamics worked...."hey beautiful, what are you doing baby?" lol

I don't think daygame will ever be popular...it just requires too much balls and practice

When was the last time you were in Ukraine? Is is still mostly turkish sex tourists and old guys?

Was in Ukraine a few months ago.

Ukraine is flooded with Turkish sex tourists. There are so many that I see them in every street corner harassing women and being complete creepers. It's a shame because Turkish guys are actually pretty chill - but the ones that come to Ukraine are the low-quality dudes that are desperate to fuck.

There's plenty of other threads with more detail on that.

[dontuan]

(07-01-2018 06:17 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 05:22 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 04:54 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 05:26 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

Crash Bandicoot what countries have you been to? When I spent 6 weeks vacationing in Colombia with a Peruvian girl many times when I left her alone in a park, etc for a little while, to go do something (e.g. find a hostel, book a tour, etc) I would come back and see some Colombian guy (or guys) trying to talk to her.

That's interesting - in my experiences, I have almost never seen anyone daygame. Let's break it down a bit to locals and foreigners:

Locals: I've traveled all over Latin America and parts of Europe and have never seen a local approach a woman. For example, In places like Mexico and Colombia, the local men stare at the women like creeps and maybe even howl, but I have never seen any of them day approach, ever. In Ukraine I also never saw any local men doing day approaches - and I couldn't seen approaching from a local being an acceptable thing in a place like Ukraine....cold people

Travelers/Foreigners: I've lived in hostels throughout my travels, in say, Latin America and have walked around and partied with a ton of gringos. THe idea of daygame to all of them was non-existent, and even when they did see a pretty girl, I never saw a backpacker approach any of them because they were just afraid.

I will say that in Ukraine I saw a ton of Turkish sex tourists howling at women and staring at them...but they were too much of pansies to actually approach. For the ones that did approach (which was very rare), they were unbelievable creepy and had no idea of how conversation dynamics worked...."hey beautiful, what are you doing baby?" lol

I don't think daygame will ever be popular...it just requires too much balls and practice

When was the last time you were in Ukraine? Is is still mostly turkish sex tourists and old guys?

Was in Ukraine a few months ago.

Ukraine is flooded with Turkish sex tourists. There are so many that I see them in every street corner harassing women and being complete creepers. It's a shame because Turkish guys are actually pretty chill - but the ones that come to Ukraine are the low-quality dudes that are desperate to fuck.

There's plenty of other threads with more detail on that.

I'm not particularly worried about horny Turkish guys. They're all over eastern europe harassing women for some time now and girls all know about it. It's only a problem if you look like them. Ukraine can really go downhill if men from all over are going there spitting game. If Kiev becomes an international hot spot is when I'll start sweating.

[Crash_Bandicoot]

(07-01-2018 07:01 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 06:17 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 05:22 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 04:54 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 05:26 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

Crash Bandicoot what countries have you been to? When I spent 6 weeks vacationing in Colombia with a Peruvian girl many times when I left her alone in a park, etc for a little while, to go do something (e.g. find a hostel, book a tour, etc) I would come back and see some Colombian guy (or guys) trying to talk to her.

That's interesting - in my experiences, I have almost never seen anyone daygame. Let's break it down a bit to locals and foreigners:

Locals: I've traveled all over Latin America and parts of Europe and have never seen a local approach a woman. For example, In places like Mexico and Colombia, the local men stare at the women like creeps and maybe even howl, but I have never seen any of them day approach, ever. In Ukraine I also never saw any local men doing day approaches - and I couldn't seen approaching from a local being an acceptable thing in a place like Ukraine....cold people

Travelers/Foreigners: I've lived in hostels throughout my travels, in say, Latin America and have walked around and partied with a ton of gringos. THe idea of daygame to all of them was non-existent, and even when they did see a pretty girl, I never saw a backpacker approach any of them because they were just afraid.

I will say that in Ukraine I saw a ton of Turkish sex tourists howling at women and staring at them...but they were too much of pansies to actually approach. For the ones that did approach (which was very rare), they were unbelievable creepy and had no idea of how conversation dynamics worked...."hey beautiful, what are you doing baby?" lol

I don't think daygame will ever be popular...it just requires too much balls and practice

When was the last time you were in Ukraine? Is is still mostly turkish sex tourists and old guys?

Was in Ukraine a few months ago.

Ukraine is flooded with Turkish sex tourists. There are so many that I see them in every street corner harassing women and being complete creepers. It's a shame because Turkish guys are actually pretty chill - but the ones that come to Ukraine are the low-quality dudes that are desperate to fuck.

There's plenty of other threads with more detail on that.

I'm not particularly worried about horny Turkish guys. They're all over eastern europe harassing women for some time now and girls all know about it. It's only a problem if you look like them. Ukraine can really go downhill if men from all over are going there spitting game. If Kiev becomes an international hot spot is when I'll start sweating.

Very solid and true point. I, myself, am American but I look Turkish. So didn't fare too well for me

In regards to other tourists from other countries - I barely saw any that weren't from Turkey or the Middle East. So still not an international hotspot

[ksbms]

(07-01-2018 06:17 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 05:22 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 04:54 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 05:26 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

Crash Bandicoot what countries have you been to? When I spent 6 weeks vacationing in Colombia with a Peruvian girl many times when I left her alone in a park, etc for a little while, to go do something (e.g. find a hostel, book a tour, etc) I would come back and see some Colombian guy (or guys) trying to talk to her.

That's interesting - in my experiences, I have almost never seen anyone daygame. Let's break it down a bit to locals and foreigners:

Locals: I've traveled all over Latin America and parts of Europe and have never seen a local approach a woman. For example, In places like Mexico and Colombia, the local men stare at the women like creeps and maybe even howl, but I have never seen any of them day approach, ever. In Ukraine I also never saw any local men doing day approaches - and I couldn't seen approaching from a local being an acceptable thing in a place like Ukraine....cold people

Travelers/Foreigners: I've lived in hostels throughout my travels, in say, Latin America and have walked around and partied with a ton of gringos. THe idea of daygame to all of them was non-existent, and even when they did see a pretty girl, I never saw a backpacker approach any of them because they were just afraid.

I will say that in Ukraine I saw a ton of Turkish sex tourists howling at women and staring at them...but they were too much of pansies to actually approach. For the ones that did approach (which was very rare), they were unbelievable creepy and had no idea of how conversation dynamics worked...."hey beautiful, what are you doing baby?" lol

I don't think daygame will ever be popular...it just requires too much balls and practice

When was the last time you were in Ukraine? Is is still mostly turkish sex tourists and old guys?

Was in Ukraine a few months ago.

Ukraine is flooded with Turkish sex tourists. There are so many that I see them in every street corner harassing women and being complete creepers. It's a shame because Turkish guys are actually pretty chill - but the ones that come to Ukraine are the low-quality dudes that are desperate to fuck.

There's plenty of other threads with more detail on that.

Haven't been to Kiev but apparently Khreschatyk Street is flooded with men in black leather jackets, ripped jeans, and some of them bald too...

[Wander]

(07-02-2018 04:22 AM)ksbms Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 06:17 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 05:22 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 04:54 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 05:26 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

Crash Bandicoot what countries have you been to? When I spent 6 weeks vacationing in Colombia with a Peruvian girl many times when I left her alone in a park, etc for a little while, to go do something (e.g. find a hostel, book a tour, etc) I would come back and see some Colombian guy (or guys) trying to talk to her.

That's interesting - in my experiences, I have almost never seen anyone daygame. Let's break it down a bit to locals and foreigners:

Locals: I've traveled all over Latin America and parts of Europe and have never seen a local approach a woman. For example, In places like Mexico and Colombia, the local men stare at the women like creeps and maybe even howl, but I have never seen any of them day approach, ever. In Ukraine I also never saw any local men doing day approaches - and I couldn't seen approaching from a local being an acceptable thing in a place like Ukraine....cold people

Travelers/Foreigners: I've lived in hostels throughout my travels, in say, Latin America and have walked around and partied with a ton of gringos. THe idea of daygame to all of them was non-existent, and even when they did see a pretty girl, I never saw a backpacker approach any of them because they were just afraid.

I will say that in Ukraine I saw a ton of Turkish sex tourists howling at women and staring at them...but they were too much of pansies to actually approach. For the ones that did approach (which was very rare), they were unbelievable creepy and had no idea of how conversation dynamics worked...."hey beautiful, what are you doing baby?" lol

I don't think daygame will ever be popular...it just requires too much balls and practice

When was the last time you were in Ukraine? Is is still mostly turkish sex tourists and old guys?

Was in Ukraine a few months ago.

Ukraine is flooded with Turkish sex tourists. There are so many that I see them in every street corner harassing women and being complete creepers. It's a shame because Turkish guys are actually pretty chill - but the ones that come to Ukraine are the low-quality dudes that are desperate to fuck.

There's plenty of other threads with more detail on that.

Haven't been to Kiev but apparently Khreschatyk Street is flooded with men in black leather jackets, ripped jeans, and some of them bald too...

Baldness is common place in the PUA community, the emotional stress that comes with gaming can prove to be too much for some PUA's, they can lose all their hair within just a few days.

[Distant Light]

Quote:

That's interesting - in my experiences, I have almost never seen anyone daygame. Let's break it down a bit to locals and foreigners:

Locals: I've traveled all over Latin America and parts of Europe and have never seen a local approach a woman. For example, In places like Mexico and Colombia, the local men stare at the women like creeps and maybe even howl, but I have never seen any of them day approach, ever. In Ukraine I also never saw any local men doing day approaches - and I couldn't seen approaching from a local being an acceptable thing in a place like Ukraine....cold people

Travelers/Foreigners: I've lived in hostels throughout my travels, in say, Latin America and have walked around and partied with a ton of gringos. THe idea of daygame to all of them was non-existent, and even when they did see a pretty girl, I never saw a backpacker approach any of them because they were just afraid.

I will say that in Ukraine I saw a ton of Turkish sex tourists howling at women and staring at them...but they were too much of pansies to actually approach. For the ones that did approach (which was very rare), they were unbelievable creepy and had no idea of how conversation dynamics worked...."hey beautiful, what are you doing baby?" lol

I don't think daygame will ever be popular...it just requires too much balls and practice

Cold approach viewed as a TOOL is one of the greatest and biggest potential possibilities within this subculture we call "community"

Cold approach is so skewed because most girls experience of a guy cold approaching is generally fearful & ego centric arrogant men unwilling to be vulnerable putting their true selves so instead they gotta creep it up to increase probability of rejection and keep their egos intact.

I don't doubt your assessment as I recall in 2011 prior to being connected in manner that I was in high end scene...

An image promoter seen me in Soho, I told him I was meeting tall chicks. He was SHOCKED gave much respect and admired "I can't do that, I'm way too scared". This is a guy who was always with stunner.

I then learnt he got into high end scene due to being a model for A&B retail store. Had female friends and things took off because a male model will clearly be around female models. Flipside only 1 crew i know ever used day game and his friend is wolf of wall street actor "connect".

That is 1 of 100s in that scene...

So when I hear you see no locals or backpackers even making an attempt, I don't doubt it as people used to wonder how I know so many people.

Ask any person man or women...
- How many strangers did they proactively meet this week?
- How many strangers were added into their lives?

World complains about loneliness & depression being an issue, yet still rocking with the same toddler friends they met in elementary school. Work & college is merely a " bubble" for humans to potentially have adult friends because most got too much fear & ego to just socialize.

All I hear is fear based thoughts towards men & women...
- You'll get scammed robbed kidnapped
- Chick will get taken advantage of

Case in point...Good quality humans will never go out of style no matter how "ruined" someone wants to call a place. It's not like a woman or gonna automatically turn asexual...At some point a dildo lacks the energetic back n forth and it's time for a REAL cock.

[Beirut]

Day game as in the ability to talk to a girl everywhere during the day and the balls to do so = priceless

Day game as in walking up and down the same two streets all day and fiddling with phone after every rejection while checking if you met your daily approach quota = soul death.

Now one might argue #2 is necessary for #1 but I wouldn’t want that as a lifestyle. A lot of day gamers regardless of success are weird and just not fun to be around and you can feel a lot of bitterness and complexes in them.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

This is what elderly game was designed to prevent. A girl who has been approached 30 times in the past year is very unlikely to be apprehensive about your approach because your approach hits the magic spot of "it just happened".

Of course, if you use more direct game I can see how PUA swarms might be a problem.

[Tenerife]

I've done a lot of daygame in eastern europe, I mean a LOT over the past few years. Things aren't getting easier that's for sure. The question is why game is getting more difficult. The blame can't be placed solely on daygamers.

In fact, most of the trend is probably due to overall societal changes, particularly social media and globalization. When I travel to cities in EE I actually don't see many other daygamers. Many times I'm the only english speaking daygamer on the streets.

Now, one factor is that local men are gaming more. At night, but also on the street during the day.

The other issue is instagram, and other forms of social media. When you approach a woman now in Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Lithuania, Hungary, whatever, she has a phone on her person or even in her hand and she has direct access to hundreds of high status, wealthy and or good looking men. Sometimes I approach girls who are taking photos for instagram in that very moment, in the center of town.

Instagram/tinder has wreaked havoc on Eastern Europe. It's not worse than america for the average dude, but it's getting worse and we are careening towards the infinite abyss it seems like.

In the FSU, impoverished hot women have increasing access to internet spamming men offering them the moon and more, and they often take these deals. For a woman from a village in the far east of europe, going to barcelona, milan, maldives, is hard to turn down.

It's getting to the point where it seems like you kind of have to work harder while simultaneously lowering your standards.

This sounds doom and gloom, and I don't mean it to be, but it's getting worse pretty much everywhere. I say this as a guy who has done more daygame than pretty much everyone I know and had very good success even just a year ago. I'll keep chugging along and let you know if I'm off base, but as for now I don't think I am.

[Enhanced Eddie]

Tenerife, how much of a difference have you noticed in difficulty of daygame now vs. before?

How does it manifest, do you get more blowouts, less numbers, more flakes, less closes, specifically?

[Tenerife]

It depends on where you are.

In second tier cities women tend to be more closed off, parochial, and less open to meeting english speaking men, which may seem parodoxical as your exoticism is relatively higher in these places.

In first tier cities you may actually experience higher initial reception (for example warm initial reception upon approach, number closing, positive demeanor while you talk, conversational engagement), but then when you go to either set a date, or close after a few dates, you realize you're not sealing the deal, getting the woman to your apartment, or having sex.

In second tier cities you may actually get a worse initial response but have similar end results.

Somehow it seems like every city is getting worse. I've recently been to Kiev, second tier Poland, Warsaw, Minsk, and now Siberia. Each city has its own quirks and peculiarities.

The key is to stay somewhere for an entire month and go hard. Hustle, grind, approach and cultivate leads.

The problem isn't for guys who are new to eastern europe. For these guys any girl will be a huge improvement upon what they are getting in their home countries.

The real problem is for guys who have a lot of experience in Eastern Europe. Guys who have taken dozens of sexy european women to bed have higher expectations. But now, there is an invisible ceiling for these guys. We want better, we have better game, we are dressing better, we are approaching more, but our results aren't necessarily improving because forces beyond our control are changing the global dating market for worse.

[Enhanced Eddie]

Quote:

The real problem is for guys who have a lot of experience in Eastern Europe. Guys who have taken dozens of sexy european women to bed have higher expectations. But now, there is an invisible ceiling for these guys. We want better, we have better game, we are dressing better, we are approaching more, but our results aren't necessarily improving because forces beyond our control are changing the global dating market for worse.

That is what I'm experiencing in South East Asia as well. It'll seem good to guys arriving fresh from the West but if you've seen what it once was it's pretty sad.

[Tenerife]

As far as the difference between now and before, it's pretty much an all encompassing difference.

Even just a few years ago, reception was higher initially, as well as setting dates and of course sealing the deal in the bedroom.

When I first came to Ukraine 6 years ago I was a complete newb, but I was able to get far with a lot of attractive girls. We're talking absolute zero skill, and basically better pulling potential.

Now it's 6 years later and better approaching, game, dress etc, leads to less results. You have to basically approach more and expect less, or have some sort of shtick working in your favor.

Every single cute girl has instagram, tinder, social media....any guy who thinks this has no effect is living a land of delusion.

But, if you only want to bang girls in the 4-6 range then these modern trends don't really matter. It's only guys who are shooting higher that hit the invisible ceiling.

[Tenerife]

The key question is, "what in the hell happened?"

It certainly wasn't daygamers approaching in droves in central european cities. I've been everywhere recently and this simply isn't the case.

The key culprits are obviously instagram and tinder, which didn't launch until late 2012.

At that time they had very little impact on the global dating market.

It wasn't until 2014-2016 that these apps really started to impact second and third world countries.

Prior to this, if you had access to an online dating app or website you were ahead of the curve. Women often outnumbered men on these platforms. This was the case in southeast asia, latin america, even eastern europe.

Now every dude has access to these apps, and every single girl in every single city across the world is obsessed with them. Every girl has a smartphone now, and uses them multiple times a day.

2016-2017 definitely felt like a bad year for men in terms of the increasing validation of women online.

2018 is tougher. A lot tougher than years before in the same countries. It's not just that previous trends are continuing but that they are seemingly picking up speed. We are careening downward toward an endless abyss. Where will it end? None of us knows.

[Enhanced Eddie]

Quote:

2018 is tougher. A lot tougher than years before in the same countries. It's not just that previous trends are continuing but that they are seemingly picking up speed. We are careening downward toward an endless abyss. Where will it end? None of us knows.

I think one reason why men in the West are turning into soy-boy faggots who kowtow to feminism, pander to women and white knight like it's going out of style is their lack of perceived options in the dating market. It is a hail mary last attempt at getting female attention for them.

From that we can conclude that, as men have continuously less and less options (globally now and not only back home where feminism, migration and obesity ruin the market), we will see more betaization of guys and women holding more power in general, not only in the dating market.

The player life style is only fun when you're still getting plenty of variety. I've seen studies that singles are only happier than people in relationships if they have 4 new partners per month or more. So if it gets to a point where guys with serious game can't get a new girl per week on average, more guys will be willing to settle for monogamy.

This is going to spell disaster too, however, because a monogamous relationship already favors the woman in terms of the power dynamic. Add the overall sexual market place to that picture and combined with hypergamy, you have a recipe for dating Armageddon for many men.

As we've seen in the pickup life style, a man with power can afford to have a girl-friend and bang dozens of girls on the side, or just keep a harem around for as long as he pleases. Women will eventually act the same way. They will have boy-friends they openly cheat on. Western media has been pushing "cuckoldry" as a life style for a while now.

I'm not saying it will be quite this gloomy for guys like us... we'll always do better than the average bear. But that is the picture I see taking shape on a societal level.

If one wanted to go tinfoil mode, one might almost assume this was a piece of deliberate social engineering. It certainly plays nicely into the hands of the Cultural Marxist and Frankfurt school type elites.

Where will it end you ask? I see two outcomes. Matriarchy or war. Possibly first one and then the other... a matriarchy will lead to societal collapse, which will lead to war.

Once sufficient men have been culled by violence, the dating market will improve again. A lack of access to females has historically always led to war.

[Going strong]

Tenerife is posting golden nuggets of wisdom and truth, above.

I agree with his analysis on how Tinder and Instagram have opened infinities of options, waves upon waves of hungry male targets, to almost all the (slim) young women of the world, turning almost all of them into lazy attention-whores. That is why, by the way, I might go back to Cuba this year, one of the few places where internet is (very) seriously limited.

It has, or will, come to this, worldwide: only places with extremely dire economic situations, and limited access to internet, will remain pussy-paradises. The rest of the field will be dominated by tinder-instagram, apps that hate age-gaps.

[Going strong]

Ultimately (I mean, maybe in one decade?), and because of Tinder-Instagramm, only tall dudes of 21-32 years of age, and slim pale women of 18-26, will have excellent, spiced sex lives. Game or efforts or intelligence (or even money, as poverty will get eradicated) will matter less and less. Only good pictures posted online on Tinder-instagram, will get the best-looking youngsters laid. The other beings will have to fuck Japan-made sex robots, or turn gay.

[jasond]

It's a simple issue of supply and demand. As I wrote about here: thread-51963.html , the supply of 20-year old girls in Eastern
Europe is rapidly dwindling (by about 10% a year) due to the post-communism baby bust. On the demand side, tinder/instagram plus more game-aware local
guys means that more and more dudes are competing for the same limited resource. Thus, the price increases. I would say to enjoy 2018 while it lasts, as 2019/2020 will only get harder.

[Enhanced Eddie]

Quote:

It has, or will, come to this, worldwide: only places with extremely dire economic situations, and limited access to internet, will remain pussy-paradises. The rest of the field will be dominated by tinder-instagram, apps that hate age-gaps.

Very true. When I first moved to South East Asia in 2004, we used to call it the "rockstar effect". Girls would treat any white guy under 40 like a literal rock star. Stares, getting opened non stop, even by guys, children, old ladies, everyone. It was insane. It faded out gradually and eventually ended around 2014.

But guess what? Go to a remote province in the Philippines where internet is so bad that you can't even check gmail because it takes 2 minutes to load a single email, and rockstar effect is still in place. That's why I believe that the internet has caused this problem more than anything else.

Unfortunately this isn't a solution though. For one thing, you'd have to be thirsty as fuck to go to these places because they are horrible. Hotels are shit, food is shit, internet is shit (obviously), infrastructure is shit, it's hot and noisy and you can't sleep past 4 am before the roosters wake you up.

Furthermore, 5g is currently in the early stages of being rolled out. Once that reaches mass adoption, there's probably going to be good internet everywhere. This is a niche that still exists but it's not a very fun niche and it won't be around for much longer.

Now is the time to keep our shit together. This is the time to stack paper and hit the gym and keep that SMV high. Not a time to coast.

Eventually something will have to give though. A society like this isn't sustainable. There's going to be some disruption... too much tension in the tectonic plates below society already.

[bojangles]

(07-05-2018 01:03 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

The key question is, "what in the hell happened?"

It certainly wasn't daygamers approaching in droves in central european cities. I've been everywhere recently and this simply isn't the case.

The key culprits are obviously instagram and tinder, which didn't launch until late 2012.

At that time they had very little impact on the global dating market.

It wasn't until 2014-2016 that these apps really started to impact second and third world countries.

Prior to this, if you had access to an online dating app or website you were ahead of the curve. Women often outnumbered men on these platforms. This was the case in southeast asia, latin america, even eastern europe.

Now every dude has access to these apps, and every single girl in every single city across the world is obsessed with them. Every girl has a smartphone now, and uses them multiple times a day.

2016-2017 definitely felt like a bad year for men in terms of the increasing validation of women online.

2018 is tougher. A lot tougher than years before in the same countries. It's not just that previous trends are continuing but that they are seemingly picking up speed. We are careening downward toward an endless abyss. Where will it end? None of us knows.

Same experience I've had in the 3 years I've been in Krakow. My first 18 months were a stroll and now it's a hell of a lot tougher and I'm finding even my polish friends who are 'naturals' have similar complaints. I even have a high social status here yet it's still tougher, there is that 'invisible ceiling'.

[Skank_Hunt]

Other daygamers and horny foreigners hasn't helped but after some consideration I do think it is a result of internet/smartphones.

Wherever I am, there is a feeling I get, which some people might think is bullshit, and I admit it is a bit out there, but, it's just an instinct... It's a feeling of how "thirsty" in general the girls in a particular town or city are as I go about my daily business...

In the US and the UK, even just 10 years ago, if I dressed on point and looked good, went out in the day, I could get eyefucked one time, or a few times, maybe. Point is, there was a good chance of getting eyefucked and it's not just the eye contact, when you walk past a hot girl and you turn your head and she turns her head too and gives a sly grin (while I curse myself for not approaching), it's just something I got used to.

Now, 10 years before THAT and it was YHT without game or minimal game so stuff that I didn't realize I was doing like just being cool or teasing or "negging" and just good conversation which was enjoyable for me as it was for them, add some basic logistics and escalation. In their "penis roster", girls often had it empty. You just had to be anywhere decent, if you were above average you would kill it. Of course you would have to call their home phone so a lot of meetings were set up on paper like meet X at 4 pm outside Y store. And she would 9/10 times fucking be there.

Now in the US and UK my gut feels pretty much no female thirst, eye contact is non-existent, even if I look better and my "game" is better than all those years ago. To get legit IOIs from an Anglosphere girl I have to meet her in some social context, be witty and charming off the chart, game on subtly but also so hard that I have to push right up until the boundary of a girl going absolutely batshit e.g. mad red face, protests, (from the quiet ones) and shouting, swearing (from the more vocal ones). Then I have to do a completely unexpected pull, which is combined with heavy qualification, but not needy, genuine, or at least, I have to convince myself to feel it is genuine in my own brain so I can be as sincere as possible. And this is only on "pretty girls" not super hot girls who are after county or state or regional or even national athletes, singers, etc. etc. Plus it only works on girls who are at least mildly accessible with it. A 33 year old carousel veteran will be difficult but a relatively nice 24 year old medical student or nurse where I can manufacture some drama has a much better chance of working. I would simplify it to a push until she is about to fall off a cliff and then you pull just as she is jumping. Girls have become so desensitized for verbal "game" I have to hit even average girls with very hard stuff tailored to them off the cuff but still incorporating core principles of push-pull.

Needless to say that's fucking exhausting. For girls that are not as good inside or out as the ones I used to get relatively easily with just normal conversation, basic logistics and escalation. Yes girls but high quality yes girls.

So I went to Poland hoping that the whole busted dudes/pretty girls situation over there, a vastly better SMP, or so it seemed, would help. And indeed the girls noticed me a lot more. I could get numbers of those above "pretty" girls without nuclear game. HCE said it well when he talked about elderly game. Genuine elderly game in EE is money. It's another course in acting. I found questions that I genuinely wanted the answers to and played the whole retarded foreigner but curious and interested about your culture angle. Add in a bit of incidental touch and see if you get any eye sparkle. Quick touches of the waist, hand, or hair often made the girls look longingly at me, a look I had missed so much for so many years. But that was only when in my presence. The numbers were generally good, but I started to feel like these girls had other priorities. The YHT girls were nearly all students. 18-21 hell yeah. They were inundated with college studies and when all was said and done I don't think they were, again, thirsty enough when they went home and considered their priorities in life. Many already had offers from a line of busted polish dudes, and they were all on social media so a line 100x longer of figurative options. My game could well also be to blame but that's the thing: I came to Poland so that I wouldn't need it at that level, like it used to be back in the day in the US when it was only guys and early adopter females on the internet on their one big family home computer or, if they were very lucky, laptop, limited to email. There was IRC and Yahoo chat rooms, AOL/YM/MSN but it was just getting started. That shit was a goldmine. I've mentioned before how I went on a penpal site for two languages I was learning at the time and got absolute sweethearts sending me snail mail and wanting to meet up when I was in their country.

So even in Poland, despite my sticking out a lot more in terms of SMV, and getting much more initial interest, the girls know they have 0 chance of ever being alone and will field multiple offers from various sources at the touch of a screen. Their thirst to actually be with me was not at the feverish point or at least very eager, it felt more like getting lost in the options and their daily lives. Even if you're in the top few % of her options, she will still have some sort of problems with the paradox of near unlimited choice.

Now, when I hear Tenerife talking about an "endless abyss" that is my instinct also. What, really, apart from some kind of extinction level event, huge world war, or some other calamity is going to shake things up sufficiently to reverse the trend? There is war and an economic shitstorm in Ukraine but girls are getting harder there. It's profoundly depressing.

And finally, when I hear that SEA, the supposed easiest destination of them all for decent looking, easy tang, is also going down, that makes me think I may as well not even try anymore. I always thought, "oh well, if EE doesn't fit my expectations at least there's SEA".

We need some kind of EE, SEA, and SA dictator in each region to rise again, take over the regions entirely, and just ban the fucking internet for women. Like Saudi Arabia (used to) ban its women from driving, women are imprisoned or executed (to send fear through society for the ones who don't take it seriously) if they at any time use the internet or any kind of smartphone or app.

Final footnote: a few guys in the UK I knew back in the day who were bona fide players, a couple on 200+ notch counts by early 20s, naturals... they are in monogamous relationships with average/at best decently pretty girls, a step down from many of their ex GFs or even ex bangs I remember them having. There is also a feminization that has happened as well. Like they are eating some pro-estrogen shit. Some are just blindly content while others have the look of a guy who is settling but can't really do anything about it because of the way shit has gone downhill since his glory days.