[TigerMandingo]

Great thread and very !

My mom and dad divorced when I was 12. Although she never explicitly badmouthed him in front of me, she did talk smack about his side of the family, who according to her, poisoned him against her and caused most of their problems.

The thing is I clearly remember my dad beating up on my mom and hitting me on numerous occasions (it went a little beyond "spankings"). I'd like to believe that I had deserved those beatings but I later learned that he was a petty fucker who would just punish me and my mom for minor transgressions.

Despite all of that, I decided to reconnect with him about 6 years ago. It was one of the weirdest moments of my life: no hug, no genuine smile from either of us, and not even an exclamation of happiness. He shook my hand and we had dinner with my grandparents. I stayed in touch with him for about a month after that but it was very awkward and didn't feel natural. There was just nothing in common between us and I still had residual anger from how he treated me in my childhood. I've long since let go of all the anger towards him and at this point it's just indifference...

I've said it before in another thread that whenever I see a happy family with a father who's genuinely interested in his kids and plays with them, I feel jealous. And you guys who do have supportive dads h ave no idea how lucky you are..

[debeguiled]

Tell you what, Mushroom, you already have tons of good advice here.

Take this as another perspective.

I was the stepdad for a while, and the birth father was a truly awful, selfish piece of garbage, and you know what?

His mother and I agreed that we were never going to shit on the birth dad. We wouldn't lie or cover for him, but we would never directly say bad things about him in front of the kid. If he failed to show up or do what he said he was going to do or did something messed up we would just pick up the pieces and tell the kid there was probably a good reason why it happened.

A lot of the time our lives got turned inside out making new plans to make up for the plans abandoned by a fucked up selfish dude and a yet again disappointed kid. We bent over backwards not to throw any aspersions against this guy just because he was family, because he was a father.

We figured it wasn't fair to do that to a child, and that he would find out the truth eventually on his own, so we expended a lot of energy making up for the machinations of a manipulator and a non child support paying fucker.

Why?

The woman I was with, even though we aren't together now, was a pretty good one, a not-bad-at-all-little-bitch. It wasn't in her to score points with a child using the dad, or to draw a child into a grown-up situation just to make herself feel better by having someone to criticize. That's why she did what she did.

The reason I did what I did was because when I was growing up, even though my parents stayed together, all I ever heard from my mom was criticism of my dad. Even as young as six or seven, I heard her side of every story, and my dad, as adults do, kept his own counsel. It wasn't till later, when I was an adult, and knew terms like "lip service," or "hypocrisy," and "self centered," that I began to reformulate how I saw my parents and especially my mom.

"Lip service" killed her.

Lip service to caring more, to being the better parent, to being a victim of some sort.

I came around to having sympathy for my poor dad, keeping his peace while mommy circled the children around her like pioneer wagons preparing for an attack, and fed comforting lies into their ears, about how Mommy loved them most of all, and Daddy didn't care as much as Mommy did, Mommy who loved them most of all.

Yeah, "lip service" was not the sort of term Mommy wanted her dear children to get a hold of, ever, and when they did, it was curtains for her. And I wasn't going to repeat that cycle, as they say, with any kids of my own, biological or not.

So consider that too, as you reflect on all the things your mom has said about your dad, reflect on the fact that there are good women out there who aren't willing to throw dad under the bus to gain approval points, who by their very nature understand that driving a wedge between a parent and child is a bad thing to do, and are willing to back that belief up by refusing to be the agent of a child's disillusion and unhappy enlightenment, and are willing to spend a lot of time and energy making up for a child's disappointment by making things right, and never with so much as a bad bit of shade cast in dad's direction.

There are far too many men out there waiting for a word from a kid they have been thinking about for years but unable to contact, and if making the effort of reaching out to your dad turns out to be one of those situations, you have gained so much, and if it doesn't, then your mom was right, you were expecting it, so you haven't lost that much.

(Though I am still pissed at your mom for dumping her relationship problems on you. Not fair.)

[kaotic]

Honestly I'm just glad there's fathers out there that care so much about their children, rightfully so.

What makes it bitter and angry is having a biased court towards men, rewarding shitty women.

Hell hath no fury than a woman whose been scorned.

Back that with her family, and you have a living hell for a man and the children.

It's funny because, I always asked how why and when, when my relatives told me about my father and the things he allegedly did. The poor children in this are just pawns.

I have a father figure already in my life and love him to death, even though we barely see eachother and when we do it's a short conversation. But he helped guide me, he blazed his own path, never got married, nor has kids, travels, and treks across the globe.

He fulfilled the father role, absolutely, I've never heard family say my father reached out to me. There were rumors that he was married and had kids, but who knows. Maybe I'll find out just out of curiosity.

[MdWanderer]

(09-12-2016 10:56 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

I've said it before in another thread that whenever I see a happy family with a father who's genuinely interested in his kids and plays with them, I feel jealous. And you guys who do have supportive dads h ave no idea how lucky you are..

Yeah, I know this feeling all too well. Growing up it was especially hard. In one of my middle school classes in Catholic school I was the only kid whose parents had divorced. My stepdad was around at the time but he was a figurehead; we fought constantly but he never really taught me anything. All of my friends had involved fathers and they usually had me tag along to birthday parties, sporting events, etc. Deep down I was full of both jealousy and guilt at the same time; jealousy that they had something in life that I didn't have (an involved father) and guilt that my dad could not do the same for them.

My mother, although I love her to death and she has raised me well, worked hard to get me to hate my father. She would tell me stories of how he would beat her (which was true, I witnessed this as a young child) but some of them were untrue. She told me of a story about how he was discharged from Navy bootcamp for selling drugs to recruits. Years later my father shows me a letter he received from the U.S Government when he went to apply for VA benefits. It had shown that he served three years and was discharged for honorable reasons (a step below an Honorable Discharge). He got out before I was born.

Growing up I talked to friends and other people about much of a POS he was. But my mom has a habit of picking losers to date. Besides my stepdad (which was her most 'successful' relationship- they were together for ten years before they separated and legally married for 19 years) her last two boyfriends did not have jobs and walked out on their children. She drove them around, fed them, paid their phone bills, and housed them for a bit. When the family tried to introduce her to one of my uncle's friends (he was a doctor) she friendzoned him before they had a chance to go on a date. I would've probably taken her hatred towards my dad more seriously if not for seeing this. Dealing with this led me to the red pill and truly how poisonous and selfish women can be.

I am trying to connect again with my father. But it is truly hard. Unlike some people's fathers who are distant but made something of themselves (good jobs, remarried with kids, etc.) my father had no other children but me and has been jobless for over ten years. He hasn't even owned a driver's license in over 30 years, and lives with my 80 year old grandmother who cooks for him, drives him around, and does his laundry. He is basically a man-child. There is nothing he could possibly provide me, either emotionally or physically. A lot of self-hatred I had as a kid stemmed from his absence.

[Irenicus]

OP, my life story is similar to yours.

My Mom was really harsh against my Dad. I remember, since i was a small kid, of them constantly arguing over the most stupid things. Although he went full Beta by trying to supplicate her...it was not enough. I even went to a shrink when I was as young as 6 several times, because I was traumatized so much from their behaviour. I could not even socialize properly, because of all the traumas I suffered. But, despite of all that, I was close to my Dad. He never did anything bad to me.

When I turned 9, my parents split. My Father separated from my mother, for another woman. My Father tried to take me with him, but the Court game custody to Mum. When I heard about that, I was crying for 2 days straight. So much that my lips burned because of all the salva. I wanted to be with Dad, and the Court took him away from me. My parent's vendetta was more important than my well being, obviously!

Although my Dad visited me as much as he could, and paid alimony (technically, he didn't have to, because he lived in another country), my Mom gradually started to make me think that he is some sort of monster (by buying me toys, haha). When I learned than my parents have finally divorced ( I saw the papers), that was the final straw. I didn't speak with my Dad for, I think two years straight. I hated him so much that I refused to even call him Dad. But, thank God, through sheer luck, I decided to reconnect with him, and, honestly, I never had any regrets.

So, OP, if your dad really tried to reach you...I suggest that you really give him a chance. He is, after all, someone nobody will ever, ever replace.

Don't do the same mistake I did.

Take care, friend!

[BrewDog]

Fathers are overrated.

I spent 39 years of my life looking up to my father and wanting his approval. He was my superhero. I always wanted him to be proud of me in everything I accomplished.

And then one day, he told me what he really thought of me. He said he'd never loved me and never would. And I haven't spoken to him in over three years. I don't expect that I'll ever speak to him again. When he's 80 and living in a nursing home and no one comes to visit, he fucking deserves to spend the end of his life that way. Fuck 'em.

Your momma loves you more than anyone ever will. Fathers are assholes.

[MdWanderer]

(09-12-2016 06:12 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

Your momma loves you more than anyone ever will. Fathers are assholes.

Everybody has their own experiences but if I had a choice of being raised only by a great dad vs. a great mom give me a great dad any day of the week.

Nobody will form your identity and teach you how to deal with this cold world like a father. Women for the most part don't have that capability.

Moms- good until you're about 8 years old

Fathers- good from 8 'til life.

[kaotic]

(09-12-2016 06:12 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

Your momma loves you more than anyone ever will. Fathers are assholes.

Sure she might....or she can be batshit crazy or suffer from BPD or Bi-Polar.

Works both ways.

[BrewDog]

(09-12-2016 06:29 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 06:12 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

Your momma loves you more than anyone ever will. Fathers are assholes.

Everybody has their own experiences but if I had a choice of being raised only by a great dad vs. a great mom give me a great dad any day of the week.

Nobody will form your identity and teach you how to deal with this cold world like a father. Women for the most part don't have that capability.

Moms- good until you're about 8 years old

Fathers- good from 8 'til life.

I agree with everything you just said.

But I said that your mother loves your more than anyone else ever will. When your entire world falls apart and everyone that used to treat you like a rockstar suddenly turns their backs on you, your momma still loves you. And you can always go home to her.

Fathers can stop loving their kids. Sometimes, fathers run away before the kid is even born without ever looking back. But your mother, even if she didn't plan you, loves you and raises you. Except for a small percentage of crackwhores, your momma sees you grow up and thinks you're the best kid the world has ever known.

Your momma always wants the best for you. When you're in low spirits, so is she.

There are many good fathers. I thought mine was one for four decades. And then he told me the truth. And I've thought about it every day for over three years since I last spoke to him.

Everyone thinks that fathers only abandon kids. My father, my hero, abandoned me when I was 39. And I wish he had abandoned me before I was born, so I hadn't wasted 39 years of my life trying to make him proud of me. The only thing that kept me in the complete shithole of Marine Corps bootcamp and drove me to finish was not to embarrass myself with my father by quitting. So, perhaps my life was made somewhat better by always striving to make him happy.

But it still seems like a wasted effort since he never cared.

[Onto]

Carl Jung talked about the concept of archetypes. There is a Mother archetype and one for the Father.

The archetype is an idea of what the perfect Mother/Father should be. It's unconscious, but if we look hard enough at the internal expectations/demands we have of our parents we may start to see it.

If we can look at our Mother/Father as a regular Jane/Joe and not as an archetype (demi-god) then a lot of the hate/anger can go away. It's not an easy thing to do, and of course in doing so you give up the dream.

Finally, Mother's love unconditionally. The child just needs to exist, have a pulse to recieve her love. This is in-line with the Feminine Dimension of reality that says existence/life is what's primary.

The Father's love is based on merit. It's not enough for the child to exist. He must establish himself as an identity, and most importantly an identity that's congruent with what the Father values. The son must carry the Father's beliefs and principals about the world forward. The love of the Father must be "earned" with action.

These are very opposing criteria's of love. So which one is right? The Masculine or the Feminine?

The both are and the both aren't. In the end a child needs both.

It's hard for me to articulate these kind of things in writing. The best thing to do is to try and see how we place a whole impossible set of diety-like expectations on two very flawed human beings who are often winging it themselves from the get-go

[tomzestatlu]

I would do that, you have nothing to lose. I think that many woman take revenge on their exhusbands by taking their kid in case the divorce is not disspasionate. And the fact he has family says he should be ok. Do that before it is too late.

My mother divorced with my father when I was 1. He is probably ashamed to contact me and I don´t really care about him. He lost his life once he got adult to alcohol (also used to gamble and had another psychical problems) and never got out of it. He probably works, so he is not on the street, but last time I saw him (some years ago) he looked like homeless.
Interesting side of the story is that his brother conctacted me. He is opposite of him. Succesful hard-working man caring about family. He wants to stay in touch with me (like family) and even wants to leave me inheritance by their father, because my father got everything seizured.

[Mushroom]

I just wanted to chime in really quick to let you guys know I talked to my Dad for about 3 hours on FaceTime yesterday. It was awkward as hell at first, but we just rolled with it and talked about anything and everything, politics, women, relationships, his family. He is *very* effortlessly redpill, I could have learned so much from him growing up. It's a real shame.

I apologized for not taking him up on his invitations years ago but said I was glad that we reconnected after I had my introspective awakening, cause I definitely would have been too close-minded to have got along with him otherwise.

All in all, I'm absolutely shocked at how well we got along. He's in China right now overseeing the production of a new product, but he'll be back in the states in a few weeks and I'm going to head out there to meet up in person. I definitely think we'll stay in touch.

Also, I'm busy as fuck with stuff related my business this week, so I'll address all the other posts when I have some more time. Thank you, everyone!

[debeguiled]

Good news Mushroom.

Reunion photo:

[MdWanderer]

(09-12-2016 09:01 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

I agree with everything you just said.

But I said that your mother loves your more than anyone else ever will. When your entire world falls apart and everyone that used to treat you like a rockstar suddenly turns their backs on you, your momma still loves you. And you can always go home to her.

Understandable, and I am sorry that your relationship with your father broke down.

It's true, a mother's love to her child is strong. But sometimes I feel that the love can retard the growth of a child to the point where she doesn't want he/she to be independent and get out of their shell. That's why some men (like my dad) live with their mothers even into middle age. They know that their moms will always take them in and spoil them, and throw a fit once they decide to leave home. I feel that if it wasn't for my uncle's influence, I would have been one of those guys.

I have noticed this with female bosses as well. Male bosses encourage you to advance in your field and make more money and would be willing to even write a recommendation for your for another company if it means you will be getting more pay or leadership positions. The female bosses, if they could, would keep you there until you're 80 stuck doing the same job because it's in their nature to control rather than encourage independence.

[doc holliday]

(09-16-2016 11:56 AM)Mushroom Wrote:  

I just wanted to chime in really quick to let you guys know I talked to my Dad for about 3 hours on FaceTime yesterday. It was awkward as hell at first, but we just rolled with it and talked about anything and everything, politics, women, relationships, his family. He is *very* effortlessly redpill, I could have learned so much from him growing up. It's a real shame.

I apologized for not taking him up on his invitations years ago but said I was glad that we reconnected after I had my introspective awakening, cause I definitely would have been too close-minded to have got along with him otherwise.

All in all, I'm absolutely shocked at how well we got along. He's in China right now overseeing the production of a new product, but he'll be back in the states in a few weeks and I'm going to head out there to meet up in person. I definitely think we'll stay in touch.

Also, I'm busy as fuck with stuff related my business this week, so I'll address all the other posts when I have some more time. Thank you, everyone!

That's fantastic man! I'm not surprised that's how it went down, I had a good feeling about it. When you're free, let us know more but you will see how much your life is going to change for the better going forward. I'm very happy for you and your Dad and so happy you went and reconnected with him. Let this serve as exhibit A as to why dudes need to at least attempt to reconnect with their Dads. It's soon still but when the time comes, your Mom will have a fuckload of explaining to do.

[Khan]

Great news Mushroom. You made a good decision - had you not reconnected with your dad, you would have regretted it later.

(09-16-2016 11:56 AM)Mushroom Wrote:  

All in all, I'm absolutely shocked at how well we got along.

It shouldn't come as a too big surprise, you're his son after all. The development of our personality is just as susceptible to genetics as it is to upbringing, if not more so. For example, I unfortunately never had the chance to meet my father but judging from what his relatives told me about him, I'm practically a carbon copy of him character-wise. I have very little in common with my mother.

[CleanSlate]

(09-16-2016 11:56 AM)Mushroom Wrote:  

I just wanted to chime in really quick to let you guys know I talked to my Dad for about 3 hours on FaceTime yesterday. It was awkward as hell at first, but we just rolled with it and talked about anything and everything, politics, women, relationships, his family. He is *very* effortlessly redpill, I could have learned so much from him growing up. It's a real shame.

I apologized for not taking him up on his invitations years ago but said I was glad that we reconnected after I had my introspective awakening, cause I definitely would have been too close-minded to have got along with him otherwise.

All in all, I'm absolutely shocked at how well we got along. He's in China right now overseeing the production of a new product, but he'll be back in the states in a few weeks and I'm going to head out there to meet up in person. I definitely think we'll stay in touch.

Also, I'm busy as fuck with stuff related my business this week, so I'll address all the other posts when I have some more time. Thank you, everyone!

Just a beautiful story.

[doc holliday]

Hey Mushroom, do you have any updates on how it's going with your Dad?

[Mushroom]

Hey guys, yeah I'm overdue for updating everyone. Awesome that you guys care enough to want to know more.

I haven't had time to post very much lately, been trying to build up my "fuck you money" stash, my business got a $400k contract a few weeks ago and my work hours have been batshit insane, to say the least.

My work has kept me from being able to fly out to visit my Dad in person, but we've been talking on FaceTime every couple of days, just trying to catch up as much as possible. He's back at his home now, so via FaceTime I've met his wife and my three step brothers and one step sister. The oldest kid is only 9, so I don't know if they totally get what's going on, but everyone is extremely nice, wanting me to come spend Thanksgiving and Christmas with them. I probably will.

I asked my Dad for the real story on why him and my Mom split up, he said that an ex-girlfriend of his started a rumor that he was still sleeping with her while he was married to my Mom, he admitted he cheated on my Mom a few times before they were married, but in the nearly 3 years they were married he was completely faithful, but my Mom didn't believe him and became hateful. He tried to turn it around, they went to counseling, but she just never believed him, and even though she said she forgave him, there was no more love and after a year of trying to mend things he gave up and wanted out. He believed the amount of arguing that she was instigating all the time was not healthy for anyone involved, especially me. He was the one that requested the divorce.

I could tell he was still troubled thinking about it, so I talked about how much I had learned about Borderline Personality Disorder from my last relationship and how I'm positive my Mom has it too. I talked about the paranoia and the extreme lack of reasoning and rationale (even more than the typical woman) associated with BPD. Basically, I let him I know that I don't blame him for leaving and that knowing what I know of BPD, it was a battle that couldn't be won and he did the right thing for his own well-being. I think putting it into perspective like that did make him feel better.

We've also discussed him giving away his custody rights to me, he never wanted to do that, but my Mom was just hellbent on taking me away from him completely so she just kept taking him to court over and over, and just like I thought he could no longer afford the expense to keep fighting. I remember going to court at least 5 times, that has to add up in legal fees.

It might surprise some of you, but I'm not upset, or hold any resentment towards my Mom in all of this. I still talk with my Mom often and haven't brought any of this up to her yet. She's got some mental issues (BPD), she was dealt a bad hand at life, so it's just a waste of time to get upset at her for something that she didn't really have the ability to fully rationalize the consequences or reality of. Had I not been through the BPD relationship I went trough, then I'm sure I'd see things differently.

I haven't brought it up with him yet, but I'm considering legally changing my name back. I used to have my Dad's middle and last name, and when he gave up custody rights to me, my Mom had my middle and last name changed to match that of my Step-Dad, whom I've never really got along with. A big part of me feels like it's the right thing to do and that when I have kids one day, I think I want them to carry on my Dad's name.

I'm hoping my part in the contract that came in for my business is mostly wrapped up at the end of this week and that I can take the time to fly out to visit in person hopefully next week.

[Uhondo]

I certainly would. And for closure, if not for anything else. My dad left when i was four, and i never got to see him again. He passed on when i was twelve, and left a father-shaped void in me that nothing else in this world is able to fill. I am mid 30s now, and still find myself seeking out bits and pieces of information about him, in a futile attempt to reconstruct and understand what he may have been like, and what ultimately led to him making the drastic (in my view) decision of abandoning the young family. If i had the chance to meet him (if he was alive), i would without hesitation reach out to him, to try and understand him (and therefore myself) better. Do it while you still can; but be prepared for whatever outcome (be it positive or negative). The arrow of time waits for no man.

[Mushroom]

Got a ticket booked today to fly out on the 20th to stay for a week, really looking forward to it. My Mom (and Step-Dad) live less than half an hour away, so at some point in the next couple of days, I need to let my Mom know about my plans, cause I should see her while I'm there too.

This has been an interesting ride. Thank you guys for all the support and interest.

[Matt3B]

Nice one, mate.

[kaotic]

Fantastic, hope you and your pops have a good time.

[Guriko]

Awesome! I know you two will have a grand time together and you deserve to enjoy it!

[Matt3B]

When I was writing my last post in this thread, I was going to write about the conversations my dad and I had in recent years about when he cheated on my mum when I was just a few years old. We had a good talk the other year about it, and he discovered I held no resentment over it. Well, I actually told him I understood it. I decided not to go into too much detail about all of this in my last post.

I just want to say something else though.

I wrote that post a week ago. My dad was in hospital at that time and I wasn't too worried. We thought he had a kidney infection which is totally treatable.

Less than 48 hours ago, I watched him take his last breath. He had advanced cancer. It was completely symptom-less until about 3/4 weeks ago. Even then, we weren't entirely sure it was cancer.

One of the comforts I have is knowing that there are no hang-ups with my dad. It would be eating me up inside had I known that several conversations I wanted to have with him were never said. I'd said it all to him, thankfully. He died peacefully in his sleep, surrounded by the love of my sister, my uncle and his wife, and me.

Fuck, man. You become desensitised to it when you read or hear "you never know what can happen" until it actually happens to you. He was in some discomfort in hospital but was himself, and then literally the next day he became unrecognisable. Just like that.

To anyone who is reading this and is umm-ing and ahh-ing about contacting a family member over some past issue, or if you're reading this and haven't seen your folks in a while because your work is in the way, or because the effort seems too much: just fucking go and see them. Have those hard conversations with them, or just go and connect with them. Spend time with them. "You'll miss them when they're gone" - another phrase we're desensitised to, but we would rather just carry on as normal and deal with it when the time comes.

I saw my dad 3 times over the past few weeks while he was in hospital. We had no idea until Sunday the extent of what was going on. I just thought he would start to improve when they had ran some more tests and could pinpoint a course of action. Had I known it was going to be this way, I would've spent every day with him.

You honestly just don't know what can happen.