[Baldrich]

(08-22-2016 07:41 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(08-22-2016 07:29 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-22-2016 07:19 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Quote:

I don't say all of this to show-off. I'm not like that but just sharing facts. In fact YEARS ago I had two girls walk up to me (SPANISH AS CAN BE) in a SMALL Castilian city well known for its student population and they both wanted me to bed them. I chose one. It's one of the few times I ever remember SPANISH women taking the initiative and I loved every moment of it. They asked me about the US, told me they liked my attitude of standing alone in the bar ignoring everyone as I read the newspaper...good times. Really.

Why not a threesome?

Why not a threesome? I wasn't attracted at all to her friend...and the really surprising thing was that when we left the bar, I left with BOTH of them and the bartender was just wowed (as were other bar employees). When we were outside, I distinctly remember her friend telling her "have fun" and said "bye" to me in English. Then we just went to her apartment and...well, mission accomplished. I was only 25 though and she was 23.

Salamanca? ))

That's right. The Salamanca natives are really closed minded, but the student population, both foreign and national, more than compensate for narrow minded townsfolk. Valladolid on the other hand is a really depressing, closed, bigoted place.

[the-dream]

What's the unemployment situation like on the ground? The figures are terrible but is there more to it than meets the eye? From the figures, I'd assume that it's very difficult for the Spanish to find work so a foreigner would have no chance as for every position, employers could easily find many locals desperate to work.

Is this the case? Is it even worse for low paid, low skilled jobs?

[Gopnik]

Thought I might repost this extract I wrote a long time ago on another thread:

Quote:

2. Spain is a country of losers, and this is coming from a Spaniard. Krauser said we are lazy but I think it has more to do with our mentality, there's just so many wrong things ingrained in our culture. Specifically, economic success is seen in a bad light. The word for entrepreneur ("emprendedor") usually carries the connotation that the person is a small business owner, doesn't make a lot of money and therefore is a hard working, productive member of society. On the other side, as soon as the entrepreneur begins to make a lot of money, he becomes a businessman ("empresario") and this is somehow frowned upon, since people think he probably exploits his employees, doesn't pay taxes and bribes members of the administration/government. While these things are not totally unheard of, the idea of the poor and working class people being morally supperior is quite present in society. If you couple that with the risk aversion, unambitious nature of many spaniards who often want to secure a stable, 9-5 job in their home city (many have what I would call a "small village mentality") you get a country where even the younger generations expect big daddy government to take care of everything and get them out of unemployment. Many young spaniards also prolong their (government subsidised) studies until their late 20s or even early 30s as an excuse to live off their parents and extend their student years where they have little responsibilities (many students even live with their old folks, it's a normal thing in Spain). The common myth says that the modern generation is the best prepared Spain has ever had but the reality is that many millennials feel entitled to a good job just because they have 2 college degrees and a masters, although at the end of the day they've barely learned anything while at uni and have zero real world experience. It's no surprise that the far left party Podemos (similar to the Greek syriza) will probably make it to the government.

I would also like to add that for many Spaniards, becoming a civil servant and getting a government/administration job is almost like winning the lottery. The entrance exams are quite tough but if you make it, you basically have a job for life. Depending on what type of job you do, working hours are not too bad (and some "funcionarios" - civil servants even have a reputation for being lazy and arriving late to work etc). In addition you can't really get fired at all. I think this perfectly illustrates our risk-aversion mentality.

All of this being said, I still love my country despite all the negative sides to it. I just don't quite see myself living there permanently but I definitely wouldn't mind dividing my time between Spain and Eastern Europe. If you're financially stable, Spain can be a good place to raise your kids and your overall quality of life can be very good too. I'm sure a lot of the stuff being discussed in this thread also applies to other european countries that don't get that much "hate" around here.

[pancakemouse]

(08-23-2016 04:45 AM)the-dream Wrote:  

What's the unemployment situation like on the ground? The figures are terrible but is there more to it than meets the eye? From the figures, I'd assume that it's very difficult for the Spanish to find work so a foreigner would have no chance as for every position, employers could easily find many locals desperate to work.

Is this the case? Is it even worse for low paid, low skilled jobs?

If you speak English and are at all qualified/hard-working it's not too hard to find a job.

Most Spanish people who complain about not being able to find work don't actually have any real skills and don't understand the value of hard work.

[Gopnik]

(08-23-2016 11:23 AM)corsega Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 04:45 AM)the-dream Wrote:  

What's the unemployment situation like on the ground? The figures are terrible but is there more to it than meets the eye? From the figures, I'd assume that it's very difficult for the Spanish to find work so a foreigner would have no chance as for every position, employers could easily find many locals desperate to work.

Is this the case? Is it even worse for low paid, low skilled jobs?

If you speak English and are at all qualified/hard-working it's not too hard to find a job.

Most Spanish people who complain about not being able to find work don't actually have any real skills and don't understand the value of hard work.

The main difference I've noticed is that in wealthier countries (UK for example) even if you study a "useless" degree like sociology, psychology or geography, there's still a good chance you can land a decent job right after you graduate. This is really not the case in Spain and many of these graduates end up in London serving coffee or cleaning toilets.

[Baldrich]

(08-23-2016 05:57 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

Thought I might repost this extract I wrote a long time ago on another thread:

Quote:

2. Spain is a country of losers, and this is coming from a Spaniard. Krauser said we are lazy but I think it has more to do with our mentality, there's just so many wrong things ingrained in our culture. Specifically, economic success is seen in a bad light. The word for entrepreneur ("emprendedor") usually carries the connotation that the person is a small business owner, doesn't make a lot of money and therefore is a hard working, productive member of society. On the other side, as soon as the entrepreneur begins to make a lot of money, he becomes a businessman ("empresario") and this is somehow frowned upon, since people think he probably exploits his employees, doesn't pay taxes and bribes members of the administration/government. While these things are not totally unheard of, the idea of the poor and working class people being morally supperior is quite present in society. If you couple that with the risk aversion, unambitious nature of many spaniards who often want to secure a stable, 9-5 job in their home city (many have what I would call a "small village mentality") you get a country where even the younger generations expect big daddy government to take care of everything and get them out of unemployment. Many young spaniards also prolong their (government subsidised) studies until their late 20s or even early 30s as an excuse to live off their parents and extend their student years where they have little responsibilities (many students even live with their old folks, it's a normal thing in Spain). The common myth says that the modern generation is the best prepared Spain has ever had but the reality is that many millennials feel entitled to a good job just because they have 2 college degrees and a masters, although at the end of the day they've barely learned anything while at uni and have zero real world experience. It's no surprise that the far left party Podemos (similar to the Greek syriza) will probably make it to the government.

I would also like to add that for many Spaniards, becoming a civil servant and getting a government/administration job is almost like winning the lottery. The entrance exams are quite tough but if you make it, you basically have a job for life. Depending on what type of job you do, working hours are not too bad (and some "funcionarios" - civil servants even have a reputation for being lazy and arriving late to work etc). In addition you can't really get fired at all. I think this perfectly illustrates our risk-aversion mentality.

All of this being said, I still love my country despite all the negative sides to it. I just don't quite see myself living there permanently but I definitely wouldn't mind dividing my time between Spain and Eastern Europe. If you're financially stable, Spain can be a good place to raise your kids and your overall quality of life can be very good too. I'm sure a lot of the stuff being discussed in this thread also applies to other european countries that don't get that much "hate" around here.

Oh of course! Spain has many wonderful things too depending on your choice of lifestyle. Hands down it is absolutely the best country - and the easiest, to just sit down, get a beer or cocktail, wine, WHATEVER you want at ANY time, no judging, no hassles. Unbeatable weather and a generally "happy" vibe you don't get of course in the US or UK. The Spanish are generally poor but satisfied with their life. They want more material things, but social life here balances things out. I'll tell you one thing - even if you wanted too, you will NEVER be lonely in Spain. It just has that social vibe that makes it impossible to be isolated from other people, even when you WANT to be alone.

But I think Spain is not a good place for ambitious people who value excellence in other areas. We agree on most things, it seems. I mean, most Spanish people readily admit this and some of them (especially the young people) don't mind my harsh criticisms of the country. Many times they say "I AGREE WITH YOU!" Old people here, like in any country, seem to me the most intolerant and rude. That's normal though.

[Baldrich]

(08-23-2016 04:45 AM)the-dream Wrote:  

What's the unemployment situation like on the ground? The figures are terrible but is there more to it than meets the eye? From the figures, I'd assume that it's very difficult for the Spanish to find work so a foreigner would have no chance as for every position, employers could easily find many locals desperate to work.

Is this the case? Is it even worse for low paid, low skilled jobs?

Well, it's not as BAD as it looks on paper. You have to remember many Spanish do work but get paid under the table and do not pay taxes or Social Security (employers here can be extremely corrupt, although that seems to be the general trend these days). Also, most youth who are unemployed just live off their parents. They are sometimes called "ninis" (ni estudian ni trabajan) -- "neither study, nor work"). These are youths who have given up on life and don't study and don't look for ANY job. They just sit around mama and papa's home all day long or go to the city squares with their friends just to hang out. Mediocrity reigns in this country.

It can be extremely difficult - in fact it is, to find good jobs here with decent salaries. If you are a foreigner though who speaks English and has work permit or EU passport...you can teach here and do some other qualified work but it's going to be really, really tough and the salaries are a joke. The ONLY positive side to this is that cost of living (NOT HOUSING) but everything else is cheaper and if you go to a smaller city, 1000 euros net pay/month is more than enough for one person, if you lead a normal life with no real luxuries. If you manage to find a girl who also gets paid 1000/month, you will live VERY WELL.

In any case, I think it's retarded to come to Spain for the jobs. There aren't many and most of them are temp crap jobs with bad conditions and low pay.

[FPT]

Portugal is a bit like the OP describes in terms of people being closed. Many foreigners that come here say they make very few portuguese friends (even though many portuguese speak good english so it's not the language). And many portuguese say the same thing when moving cities here.

This thread got me thinking. I have work opportunities in Seville, Berlin and Dublin all with similar salaries. Adjusting for costs in each city, salary is better in Seville but salary is not the most important

I see a lot of people also saying shit about these other cities, but nothing like this thread on Spain. And since my experience in Portugal (living here for 10 years) has not been good both in terms of girls or making friends I'm thinking it might not be smart to go to a city that is culturally close.

Is Seville worse than Berlin or Dublin when it comes to making a few girlfriends and a few good friends? Taking into account I'm portuguese and my spanish is very good, but I speak no german. And I look german although very short, 5'3''

[Elster]

^
Séville is known amongst andalucians to be the most elitist of all people in the region(though some Malagans could easily compete) so I suppose the closed mindset will be stronger, particularly when it is taken into account how traditionalist Andalucia is in general.
Then again, it's relatively cheap and the weather is great.

I do like the german mindset a lot more as it is based more on demonstrating initiative than social alacrity. But then again I am biased by having a German bird and in general having had a good experience with the kraut landers

[Kaligula]

(08-30-2016 08:37 PM)FPT Wrote:  

Portugal is a bit like the OP describes in terms of people being closed. Many foreigners that come here say they make very few portuguese friends (even though many portuguese speak good english so it's not the language). And many portuguese say the same thing when moving cities here.

This thread got me thinking. I have work opportunities in Seville, Berlin and Dublin all with similar salaries. Adjusting for costs in each city, salary is better in Seville but salary is not the most important

I see a lot of people also saying shit about these other cities, but nothing like this thread on Spain. And since my experience in Portugal (living here for 10 years) has not been good both in terms of girls or making friends I'm thinking it might not be smart to go to a city that is culturally close.

Is Seville worse than Berlin or Dublin when it comes to making a few girlfriends and a few good friends? Taking into account I'm portuguese and my spanish is very good, but I speak no german. And I look german although very short, 5'3''

How much social you are ? Personally I can't bear the levels of Spanish sociability and utter inability to do anything alone; maybe Spanish men are a bit like women in this respect
What is attitude of the Spanish towards the Portuguese...? Small Portugal looks like small Czech Republic in Slavic family, but then, there is no ultimate big brother in Latin family in the way Russia is in Slavic family...
You will get automatic bonus points in Northern lands for being Spanish/Portuguese but you will get some negative points I think for being short and actually looking like a German... But in Berlin everybody seems to be speaking English, so much, that my friend who stayed there for a year, still did not learn speaking German...
Once upon a time I lived in a small 'international' student house in Amsterdam-Amstelveen. My Norwegian and Danish female flatmates almost immediately found Spanish boyfriends who infested our small house with their Spanish bunch of friends staying almost every night till 4 am in our living room. Soon, in the manner resembling a bit Eurovision voting, the front line was shaped in the form of Austro-Polish-French alliance standing against Norwegian-Danish-Spanish alliance, with a Chinese and a Finish being somewhat neutral and in-between. Well, the only thing which surprised me in this lines of allegiance was how much French (both a girl and a boy) disliked Spanish.
But well, I may be biased, taking into account how much Spanish boys are popular in Poland and how much Spanish language is popular among Polish girls... They learn it, mind you, 'to travel', not to read Cervantes or Borges...
To keep up with the demand, the biggest Cervantes Institute in the world (!) was opened in Warsaw a few years ago.

[Elster]

I think the problem when categorizing in broad strokes "north versus south" is not taking into account the historical and climatical conditions that came to shape the social mechanics of these societies.

Indeed in Germany,the north is often seen as poor in stark contrast to to the usual "global" perception of "north=cold & rich vs South=warm&poor".

[Kaligula]

In a curious way, Spain has some reputation for perversion too, with the said perversion being shaped by sex/death juxtaposition. You could actually think so just watching Almodovar films or, if you are old-style, just watching corrida.
I still remember a riddle of one of Spanish guys, Vincent (actually Catalan, he always stressed it, 'Not Spanish, CATALAN') in my international student house in Amstelveen, Netherlands: what is the biggest possible sexual pleasure for a man?
Answer: fucking a female duck in the moment her head is cut off.
Such sophisticated ideas have never reached Poland, I must admit.
Now, how many of these dreams find their way to Spanish bedrooms...?

[Lime]

(08-22-2016 07:47 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-22-2016 07:41 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(08-22-2016 07:29 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-22-2016 07:19 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Quote:

I don't say all of this to show-off. I'm not like that but just sharing facts. In fact YEARS ago I had two girls walk up to me (SPANISH AS CAN BE) in a SMALL Castilian city well known for its student population and they both wanted me to bed them. I chose one. It's one of the few times I ever remember SPANISH women taking the initiative and I loved every moment of it. They asked me about the US, told me they liked my attitude of standing alone in the bar ignoring everyone as I read the newspaper...good times. Really.

Why not a threesome?

Why not a threesome? I wasn't attracted at all to her friend...and the really surprising thing was that when we left the bar, I left with BOTH of them and the bartender was just wowed (as were other bar employees). When we were outside, I distinctly remember her friend telling her "have fun" and said "bye" to me in English. Then we just went to her apartment and...well, mission accomplished. I was only 25 though and she was 23.

Salamanca? ))

That's right. The Salamanca natives are really closed minded, but the student population, both foreign and national, more than compensate for narrow minded townsfolk. Valladolid on the other hand is a really depressing, closed, bigoted place.

I've had crazy experiences in Salamanca as well.

Great city for young guys to live for a while and learn Spanish.

The Spanish people there (native and northern Spanish) are a bit too Spanish , however there are also southern Spanish girls on intranational exchanges and MAAANY Latin, European, North American girls etc.

Maybe my favourite city is Granada, though. In terms of culture a mix between Andalucia and Valencia and girls there are much better and easier than in the North.

[ElFlaco]

(08-31-2016 02:36 AM)Kaligula Wrote:  

Personally I can't bear the levels of Spanish sociability and utter inability to do anything alone;

This is something I have observed in Latin America as well.

Someone is going on a trip? The whole family has to accompany him to the airport, right up to the gate.

Going to the ATM machine? Why not bring your girlfriend and your mother right up to the teller machine with you, in case you need to consult with them about how much to take out or which button to push. Never mind that the transaction will not cause everyone in line to wait twice as long.

You're a foreigner and going to be alone for the holidays? You must accept an invitation to come to my house and be bored with my family for a few days. There's no legitimate reason you could actually prefer being alone.

American-style individualism is truly rare.

[AboveAverageJoe]

Not pussy related but the Al-Hambra in Grenada is a must see.

[Kaligula]

(08-31-2016 02:36 AM)Kaligula Wrote:  

How much social you are ? Personally I can't bear the levels of Spanish sociability and utter inability to do anything alone; maybe Spanish men are a bit like women in this respect

But well, I may be biased, taking into account how much Spanish boys are popular in Poland and how much Spanish language is popular among Polish girls... They learn it, mind you, 'to travel', not to read Cervantes or Borges...
To keep up with the demand, the biggest Cervantes Institute in the world (!) was opened in Warsaw a few years ago.

I shall extend upon my previous remark, explaining also why I called the gregariousness of Spanish men a kind of womanly virtue aka vice by noticing that the epitome of 'living in a Spanish way' for Polish girls is oh oh ah ah drinking coffee at almost any time at some cafe table facing street: one of my female friends after finishing her extended stint in Madrid immediately started to scout Warsaw for such opportunities... But you can't! Almost nowhere! Why?!! What's wrong with the Polish sense of quality of life?! But wait...! Luckily, there is an enclave of such a lifestyle in Warsaw, and that is Plac Zbawiciela... She even bought an apartment nearby....
Still, all that does not explain why other countries with street cafes culture - France and Italy - are in no comparable way such an attraction magnet as Espana is... Noticing that France charme in the eyes of Polish women is decidedly the weakest one, I would propose that this attraction is proportional to the perceived level of the given culture being more or less visceral. Spain, with corrida, Almodovar (or Guilliemo del Toro for that matter - what a macho surname! I have never ever heard about anyone in Poland who would call himself 'Bull/byk' ) and coffee drinking maniana culture (which from the outside can be read as a kind of defiant alpha machismo, even though in reality it is a culture of avoidance) takes the first prize here, France comes as the last one in Latin squadra...

[Mekorig]

So, drinking a coffe with friends is now a womanly activity? What?

[Kaligula]

(08-31-2016 08:21 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

So, drinking a coffe with friends is now a womanly activity? What?

No, of course in itself not.... In general I was pointing to traces of herd mentality (or promoting it) in the chosen form of coffee consumption. Coffee you can also drink:
1) alone or with family at home;
2) really on the way or in Stehcafe (Cafe where you are standing, usually facing wall or window, instead sitting), like in Netherlands or Germany.

Personally I drink mainly tea

I understand the allure of such a lifestyle, since I am often eating dinners at small cafeteria where usually I am sitting with the same group of people. However, as a moody introvert I sometimes don't want or dislike it or it burdens me somehow so I do not always sit with them
- as a result I am not really a member of the pack, like kinda Hans Castorp in 'The magic mountain' (beautiful passage about politics of tables there). Spanish way of life, as I experienced it, is really for extroverts and as such it may especially appeal to women

But frankly, I have never fully understood the phenomenon of Spain popularity among women (I am yet to meet a woman who would not like to live in Barcelona), and since I was puzzled by it, I have made a couple of my own theories to explain it


By the way, in other threads I have mentioned Jorge Luis Borges and Miguel Unamuno as my favourite writers, so it is not like Spanish culture has nothing worthy of praise for me.
I find Gerald Brenan 'South from Granada' - even if dated - a kind of interesting musing on the subject of Spain, as it exposes this strange mixture of naiviety, spontaneity, cruelty, dedication to idea (he wrote a bit about Civil War) or family, but indifference and ignorance, superficiality and cunning too, which Spain seems to be.

[Mekorig]

Borges was argentinian, and an anglophile to booth. Bad choice in "spaniard" literature.

[Kid Twist]

Baldrich, I was in Malaga last year and I found it quite nice. I swung through Sevilla and it was cool too, but not quite as nice. I recall going to that plaza where all the younger people hung out and waited to get into clubs (in Malaga), was that a tourist trap? My problem at the time was that I wasn't with a proper wingman. I speak spanish very well, most of the time without any accent, but might have to rely on foreign game since I can't go high level witty. I have always loved Spain but as I've gotten older I don't want to travel with others that bring me down (older people) ... but I'm skittish to go alone. Perhaps I should? Or not bother ...

any advice? (I've been to every region pretty much save for Santiago de Compostela)

[Kaligula]

(09-01-2016 09:43 AM)Mekorig Wrote:  

Borges was argentinian, and an anglophile to booth. Bad choice in "spaniard" literature.

Well, that's true but Borges anglophilia is not a screaming recommendation for Spanish culture, is it?
And aren't Argentinians feeling a part of Spanish culture...?
Visiting Latin America yet awaits me, so it is hard for me to discuss the difference between Spain and LA countries, but talking about literature, if you take for example Borges
'El Sur', Marques 'El Otonio del Patriarca' and Llosa 'Conversacion en la Catedral' you will find similar fatalistic atmosphere, which also reigns in Unamuno stories.

[Mekorig]

Argentina recognize a cultural connection with Spain, but also with Italy and other european countries. Argentina, while a ex-spanish colony, got a huge inmigrant wave from all over europe.

[Elster]

Argentina is the least traditional of the old Spanish colonies(save for politics, the good Ole feudalism never died!) so it is also a very bad reference for wholesome Spanish cultural references. Merlo right already pointed out how many other nationalities beside the main gross numbers of spaniards and Italians made it to her shores in the immigration boom of the late 19th century, a very large number of poles, Syrians, Armenians and a lot more nords than many would Imagine amongst them.
The English used to have their largest concentration of subjects outside the isles until the Falkland war, their presence and influence has never waned much either(to say they had an intimate hand in our history is being shiny discreet)

This thread seems to have degenerated into a nationality bashing fest

[Lino]

Are there RV members living in Malaga? I have been there a couple of times over the last years and planning to go back next week for 1 week or 2.

[Guayacan]

Just a question... do most people in spain have a feeling of superiority towards south americans or just a few of them ?

For some reason i'm always assuming that spaniards look down on me because of my south american/indigenous heritage but of course it might just be my imagination because i've been told that spaniards are racist all my life.

On the other hand i never think like think like this with people from other countries...