[Orson]

CLOSING THOUGHT (blocked by the filter):

Check out the...(etc)

These are the neighborhoods I've scouted out myself, should I replant myself in Utah. Especially an area at the Eastern edge of the Avenues, close to where the elevation rises to give an awesume view West, over downtown (and thus about a half mile from the University).

[Orson]

One more set of "closing thoughts."

How did I wind up with a GF going to BYU? I actually met her before moving to Utah; she was already enrolled and we met during her summer break. She was only 18 years and 13 months old - a real baby! But a fun and horny redhead, and, uh, as sexually gifted as she was adventurous - and therefore needed the benefit of an older BF - me.

I had another GF from SLC while I was there, who also had attended the Y. They were both 'rebelling' against their folks and trying to live without the religion of their youth. This is difficult for Mormons in Utah - unless they grew up outside of Utah and the LDS culture zone surrounding the state. They can be conflicted - trying to find themselves, please themselves, and define their own identity - one different from their parents unform expectations.

Also - because it's like going back in time, it is possible that a woman in Utah will want to trap you by getting herself pregnant - a kind of lazy way of backing into becoming a 'good Mormon' and redeeming herself from her attempted rebellion (which is what my older SLC GF did to me).

Like with traditional women everywhere, especially from Catholic cultures where abortion is a sin, there are ways of finessing the risk, of course. (But this is the stuff for another, different thread.)

The Y versus the U - are they mirror opposites? Is the U wacky Left? The strict opposite of the way the Y is uniformly Republican? No.

It may have changed, but in my time there, the U was more 50-50ish - evenly split, left and right. (Of course, the real ratio isn't like that - there's always a large portion of people who are pretty apolitical, perhaps amounting to half of the people. So, 25-25%, maybe?)

It is just that the Y is 95% LDS - and there is an honor code for good behavior that is enforced, and my GF at the Y could have been booted out on several counts of violating it! Fortunately, I admire creative rebels, and so I accepted and admired her too. By contrast, the U, is less than half LDS. And because it is a publicly funded state university, it takes in non-Mormon Utahns as well as poorer Mormons, and more people from out of state.

In my visits back to SLC, I also find that libertarian stances are considered respectably odd and individualistic there - which makes sense. Anything individualist is kind of an implied critique of the norm of religious conformism of Utah in general, as well as a check against Leftist craziness elsewhere (like in California). Utahns don't want the kind of problems - eg, poor quality schools or routine state budget crises - that are now typical of California. So, it's kind of like being 'half in, half out.'

The key to socializing in Utah is to be upbeat and accepting (and hide any criticism for later more appropriate times to share). Mormons are happy people.

The LDS Church is very international today, and there are now more Mormons outside of the US than in it. Thus, visiting during the twice yearly "General [Church] Conference" week (in April and November), can find yourself in a sea of happy Mormons, all visiting SLC, with many foriegn langauges heard on the street.

One of the more interesting experiences I had while living in Utah was the experience of 'being different' from most of the people around me. This comes in many forms. The more obvious ones can be the least of all differences - and the non-obvious differences can also be among the most interesting of differences.

[beta_plus]

(12-19-2015 04:56 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

...

Also keep in mind that a bit over a year from now, the DC area might be a very different place with a new administration (Trump) in office. People have noted a major drop in talent in 2008 due to the economy crashing but I think the shift from Bush to Obama played a big factor as well. Obama brought in A LOT of SJW freaks and libtard idiots. A Trump administration could change the talent pool significantly in the DC area; I don't see many short haired feminist cunts coming to the DC area to work for Trump. I might need to start a thread about this.
...

You know, I have started to wonder the same thing. While I have always stated my belief that the 2008 crash destroyed all the BS non-profit non-work jobs the hotties were doing, I think that you are correct that this probably contributed to the problem as well.

[SuS]

(12-21-2015 07:42 AM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 10:08 PM)SuS Wrote:  

-Being a black male, albeit a light skin one, makes me a bit more cautious of this move. Now I don't have a problem being in a predominantly white environment given that it's racially open-minded; for if the offer was in Seattle or Denver, I would be packing up my bags tonight. But given the location, I do have my reservations. However, what makes me less hesitant is the seething covert racism I constantly face in DC from these so-called liberals, with the worst offenders being yuppies who are around my age. Add that with the overt intra-racism I get from my so-called people for not acting "black enough", I'm about had it with DC and the East Coast in general. And needless to say, I'm not getting a lot of play from any sides of the racial fence.

Also something I wanted to add as well is that have you looked at mixed-raced women or mixed-raced people in general for friendship? As funny as it sounds, it's true, they too suffer from a lot of racial confusion and that is something you will have in common with them (if you are being rejected by blacks for not being "black enough" and not completely accepted by whites due to your race).

If I am not mistaken I think you made a post in the past about how it was hard for light-skinned black men to crack a lot of the white girls who go for black men. I am light skinned and I seemed to be having this problem too. I feel that a lot of white girls (and "full" raced women in general) look for the contrast when they are dating interracially so they go for the dark-skinned brotha. I had a lot of dark skinned black women attracted to me sexually due to my light skin and light eyes but once they found out I wasn't "down" or had no "swag" they cashed in their chips and left. A mixed-raced woman will most likely look for a "mutt" like them and for someone who is just normal and doesn't subscribe to any generic racial structure, and they have been the source for a lot of my lays (I'm often mistaken for being mixed). And they tend to be the most open minded too given the fact they were a product of it. DC has a lot of mixed raced girls and all it takes is a Plenty-Of-Fish search (they have that option) and start hollering.

Over 2/3 of the friends I have made in my life were races other than black or white (Latino, Asian, Indian, Middle Eastern, etc) and in nearly all of those social scenarios, there's been more of a "one of the guys/equal footing" vibe I got compared to when I was around blacks and whites, specifically those in the DC Area. But to be fair, I've been to places outside the Beltway where whites and blacks were cool with me as well.

But as for mixed people, at least when it comes to the DC Area, they tend to be the worst racially. The majority of them (males) were either overcompensating by being super thugged out or only associated with whites, with 90 percent of them being in the former category. But the mixed/light skin females have been the worst. Either they ONLY date dark-skinned black men or ONLY date white men. In the DMV, I have NEVER seen a couple that consists of two light-skin/biracial people.

When people say DC is a "Black Mecca", it's with an asterisk, and that "Mecca" is only for dark skinned people. Not hating, but I have to keep it 100. This is no region for light-skin/half-blacks. That's one of the main reasons I'm so over this place. But thanks for your recommendation nevertheless; You've been having my back for a while, and it's not being unnoticed.


But I thank everyone who has given the more detailed advice thus far, particularly the neighborhoods and strategic reasons why to move. I'm leaning on moving there mostly because of the company I'll be contracted with (it's worth over $20 billion USD and has over 75,000 employees) and as a stepping stone to go one of my "goal cities" in the future within the company. As for visiting SLC, I'm planning to do a stint there this weekend. I know it isn't the best indication for how life is in that city, but given my limited schedule and the holiday, it's the best I can do. And I feel it should be enough time to test the gaming potential and see the general reaction to someone like myself.

[Diop]

I spent a summer interning for a bank out in Salt Lake City between the first and second year of my MBA program, which lasted about three months. I was initially hesitant about being in a part of the country I'd never been to that had a reputation for being socially religious/conservative, but I ended up having a great time as far as both having fun (in general) and hooking up with women (specifically). This was back in 2010, so things may be a bit different now but I doubt it's changed that much. I can't speak for the racial factor since I'm white guy who was in my late 20's (at the time), but here are a few memories and observations I had from the experience:

1) It took me less than a week to find a group of friends to meet and hang out with because of the strong counter-culture that exists there. Essentially, it seemed to me that people see you as either LDS or not, and since the non-Mormons are actually the minority in the city they are (mostly) extremely welcoming to newbies. Most were in their 20's and early 30's, students, artists, white/blue collar professionals, etc., and the fact that I would go to the bars downtown by myself after work for a cold one was enough for lots of them to approach me with a "you're not from around here, are you?" type of attitude which I've never experienced in any other city. It was really cool at the time.

2) Because of the above, I found it surprisingly easy to meet attractive, single women who were looking to hook up because I was actually considered a rare commodity in the city. If you are a single guy with a solid job in SLC who isn't LDS, you'll stand out to lots of women there because there just aren't that many non-Mormon single and professional guys in their late 20's/early 30's who live there and are out on the town. Once again, I don't know if being black vs. white would play a factor with this, but I suspect not because the friends I made while I was there were actually fairly diverse from all sorts of different backgrounds. And again - if you aren't LDS, you are already "in the club" so to speak with most of the non-Mormon locals as long as you're a cool guy. Also - there's a surprising amount of cool bars and restaurants in SLC, mostly downtown. I was worried there wouldn't be a lot of places to go out to, but I was wrong - there are plenty out there. It's probably gotten better since the five years I was there too.

3) While I did find it relatively easier than normal to hook up with the women there, it was clear that many were definitely on the prowl for "something more" from the get-go due to scarcity so you have to watch out for that. It probably goes without saying, but the younger girls I was able to have fun with were all about just living for the moment and enjoying things while a couple of the older ones (late 20's, one was actually 30) were definitely angling for husbands and/or sperm donors so be careful. I had it somewhat easier because I was only going to be there for the summer and I was very upfront about that with everyone I met, but one of the older ladies still tried to make something more of it even after I left to go back to grad school back east. She tried to dupe me with a (fake) pregnancy scare, but I could tell early on that she had baby rabies and was extra extra extra careful with her regarding protection so I knew it was bullshit. It turned out to be "nothing to worry about", of course.

4) I always felt like an outsider at work during my internship because everyone knew I wasn't LDS, and it actually started to get to me afterwhile. I don't know which company you'd be contracting with, but I'd bet it'll be at least 75% Mormons who work there, maybe more. It's not a huge deal if you're there for a summer, but I felt like if it was my full-time job it honestly might have hurt my career progression because I was viewed as "not part of the club" from the beginning. It's hard to explain, just a lot of subtleties that you'll start to pick up on. Maybe it won't be the case where you'd be working and/or it won't bother you at all, but I definitely got tired of it towards the end of my time there.

5) Just to end this on a positive note, if you're into hiking like I am, living there is/was AWESOME. So much to see in the state and even around town there are plenty of places to enjoy being outside. That's actually what I did for a lot of dates, we just hiked around some of the surrounding areas since I'd never been to them before and was all about checking out the trails, etc. Park City is probably more of a winter destination because of the skiing, but I went there a couple of times during the summer (including for the Fourth of July) and it was AWESOME. Neat little town with a great "Main Street" and very friendly locals. I can only imagine how cool it is during skiing season.

I think you ought to go ahead and take a leap and move there. I spent five years living and working in DC (lived in Arlington specifically) and looking back it was a horrible experience as far as cost of living, stress, traffic, women, douchebaggery, etc. Salt Lake City may not have the most "fun" reputation, but I truly enjoyed my time there and I think you will too, at least compared to DC.

[Merenguero]

(12-22-2015 11:51 PM)SuS Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 07:42 AM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 10:08 PM)SuS Wrote:  

-Being a black male, albeit a light skin one, makes me a bit more cautious of this move. Now I don't have a problem being in a predominantly white environment given that it's racially open-minded; for if the offer was in Seattle or Denver, I would be packing up my bags tonight. But given the location, I do have my reservations. However, what makes me less hesitant is the seething covert racism I constantly face in DC from these so-called liberals, with the worst offenders being yuppies who are around my age. Add that with the overt intra-racism I get from my so-called people for not acting "black enough", I'm about had it with DC and the East Coast in general. And needless to say, I'm not getting a lot of play from any sides of the racial fence.

Also something I wanted to add as well is that have you looked at mixed-raced women or mixed-raced people in general for friendship? As funny as it sounds, it's true, they too suffer from a lot of racial confusion and that is something you will have in common with them (if you are being rejected by blacks for not being "black enough" and not completely accepted by whites due to your race).

If I am not mistaken I think you made a post in the past about how it was hard for light-skinned black men to crack a lot of the white girls who go for black men. I am light skinned and I seemed to be having this problem too. I feel that a lot of white girls (and "full" raced women in general) look for the contrast when they are dating interracially so they go for the dark-skinned brotha. I had a lot of dark skinned black women attracted to me sexually due to my light skin and light eyes but once they found out I wasn't "down" or had no "swag" they cashed in their chips and left. A mixed-raced woman will most likely look for a "mutt" like them and for someone who is just normal and doesn't subscribe to any generic racial structure, and they have been the source for a lot of my lays (I'm often mistaken for being mixed). And they tend to be the most open minded too given the fact they were a product of it. DC has a lot of mixed raced girls and all it takes is a Plenty-Of-Fish search (they have that option) and start hollering.

Over 2/3 of the friends I have made in my life were races other than black or white (Latino, Asian, Indian, Middle Eastern, etc) and in nearly all of those social scenarios, there's been more of a "one of the guys/equal footing" vibe I got compared to when I was around blacks and whites, specifically those in the DC Area. But to be fair, I've been to places outside the Beltway where whites and blacks were cool with me as well.

But as for mixed people, at least when it comes to the DC Area, they tend to be the worst racially. The majority of them (males) were either overcompensating by being super thugged out or only associated with whites, with 90 percent of them being in the former category. But the mixed/light skin females have been the worst. Either they ONLY date dark-skinned black men or ONLY date white men. In the DMV, I have NEVER seen a couple that consists of two light-skin/biracial people.

When people say DC is a "Black Mecca", it's with an asterisk, and that "Mecca" is only for dark skinned people. Not hating, but I have to keep it 100. This is no region for light-skin/half-blacks. That's one of the main reasons I'm so over this place. But thanks for your recommendation nevertheless; You've been having my back for a while, and it's not being unnoticed.


But I thank everyone who has given the more detailed advice thus far, particularly the neighborhoods and strategic reasons why to move. I'm leaning on moving there mostly because of the company I'll be contracted with (it's worth over $20 billion USD and has over 75,000 employees) and as a stepping stone to go one of my "goal cities" in the future within the company. As for visiting SLC, I'm planning to do a stint there this weekend. I know it isn't the best indication for how life is in that city, but given my limited schedule and the holiday, it's the best I can do. And I feel it should be enough time to test the gaming potential and see the general reaction to someone like myself.

Day in and day out, the vast majority of black people who I see in the D.C. area are either from some other country or the are the children of immigrants. It looks to me that black Americans and people of mixed race are small minorities, just like white Americans are in much of the D.C. area (Bethesda, Frederick, Damascus, Potomac, and higher end areas of Northwest D.C. are the only places I know which have a white majority). I don't know if I'm off it on this or if I'm only exposed to places where black Americans and white Americans are a tiny minority.

[Le Marocain]

Wow, good to see fellow Marylanders on the thread. I thought that I was the only one here.

The DC/Baltimore region is very tough if you're a non thug black guy. You typically won't have anything in common with the ghetto D.C./ Baltimore black girls and the educated white lizards are either in relationships or not into doing the swirl.

Baltimore has more working class/poor white folks that than the D.C. area has, but even among those white women, the ones that like to mess around interracially typically go for the street/coon ghetto black guys that the black chicks go for.

I don't really see any poor/working class white folks in Arlington, D.C., Fairfax etc. and even though I do see more black men/non black woman interracial couples....it appears as though social circle game is in full effect there. Cold approaches and day gaming would be out of place here....since most people are going to and from work, or hanging out within their social circles on the weekends.

As a non thug black guy on the come up, from an impoverished background.....the dating game is horrible in the D.C. area. If you're a dopeboy/Idiot ghetto clown...then sure there are plenty ratchet DC ghetto chicks to fuck.

[Le Marocain]

(12-23-2015 09:05 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(12-22-2015 11:51 PM)SuS Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 07:42 AM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 10:08 PM)SuS Wrote:  

-Being a black male, albeit a light skin one, makes me a bit more cautious of this move. Now I don't have a problem being in a predominantly white environment given that it's racially open-minded; for if the offer was in Seattle or Denver, I would be packing up my bags tonight. But given the location, I do have my reservations. However, what makes me less hesitant is the seething covert racism I constantly face in DC from these so-called liberals, with the worst offenders being yuppies who are around my age. Add that with the overt intra-racism I get from my so-called people for not acting "black enough", I'm about had it with DC and the East Coast in general. And needless to say, I'm not getting a lot of play from any sides of the racial fence.

Also something I wanted to add as well is that have you looked at mixed-raced women or mixed-raced people in general for friendship? As funny as it sounds, it's true, they too suffer from a lot of racial confusion and that is something you will have in common with them (if you are being rejected by blacks for not being "black enough" and not completely accepted by whites due to your race).

If I am not mistaken I think you made a post in the past about how it was hard for light-skinned black men to crack a lot of the white girls who go for black men. I am light skinned and I seemed to be having this problem too. I feel that a lot of white girls (and "full" raced women in general) look for the contrast when they are dating interracially so they go for the dark-skinned brotha. I had a lot of dark skinned black women attracted to me sexually due to my light skin and light eyes but once they found out I wasn't "down" or had no "swag" they cashed in their chips and left. A mixed-raced woman will most likely look for a "mutt" like them and for someone who is just normal and doesn't subscribe to any generic racial structure, and they have been the source for a lot of my lays (I'm often mistaken for being mixed). And they tend to be the most open minded too given the fact they were a product of it. DC has a lot of mixed raced girls and all it takes is a Plenty-Of-Fish search (they have that option) and start hollering.

Over 2/3 of the friends I have made in my life were races other than black or white (Latino, Asian, Indian, Middle Eastern, etc) and in nearly all of those social scenarios, there's been more of a "one of the guys/equal footing" vibe I got compared to when I was around blacks and whites, specifically those in the DC Area. But to be fair, I've been to places outside the Beltway where whites and blacks were cool with me as well.

But as for mixed people, at least when it comes to the DC Area, they tend to be the worst racially. The majority of them (males) were either overcompensating by being super thugged out or only associated with whites, with 90 percent of them being in the former category. But the mixed/light skin females have been the worst. Either they ONLY date dark-skinned black men or ONLY date white men. In the DMV, I have NEVER seen a couple that consists of two light-skin/biracial people.

When people say DC is a "Black Mecca", it's with an asterisk, and that "Mecca" is only for dark skinned people. Not hating, but I have to keep it 100. This is no region for light-skin/half-blacks. That's one of the main reasons I'm so over this place. But thanks for your recommendation nevertheless; You've been having my back for a while, and it's not being unnoticed.


But I thank everyone who has given the more detailed advice thus far, particularly the neighborhoods and strategic reasons why to move. I'm leaning on moving there mostly because of the company I'll be contracted with (it's worth over $20 billion USD and has over 75,000 employees) and as a stepping stone to go one of my "goal cities" in the future within the company. As for visiting SLC, I'm planning to do a stint there this weekend. I know it isn't the best indication for how life is in that city, but given my limited schedule and the holiday, it's the best I can do. And I feel it should be enough time to test the gaming potential and see the general reaction to someone like myself.

Day in and day out, the vast majority of black people who I see in the D.C. area are either from some other country or the are the children of immigrants. It looks to me that black Americans and people of mixed race are small minorities, just like white Americans are in much of the D.C. area (Bethesda, Frederick, Damascus, Potomac, and higher end areas of Northwest D.C. are the only places I know which have a white majority). I don't know if I'm off it on this or if I'm only exposed to places where black Americans and white Americans are a tiny minority.

The native black population of DC is shrinking every year. Many of those ghetto blacks are being pushed into PG county in favor yuppies coming in to DC to make big bucks.

For places that have your typical native white and black population, you'll need to go north of Prince Georges county MD, to Anne Arundel county and Baltimore etc. Or further south beyond PW county in Virginia. As a side note: Alexandria has a decent sized native black population as well.

[Merenguero]

(12-23-2015 10:25 PM)Le Marocain Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 09:05 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(12-22-2015 11:51 PM)SuS Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 07:42 AM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 10:08 PM)SuS Wrote:  

-Being a black male, albeit a light skin one, makes me a bit more cautious of this move. Now I don't have a problem being in a predominantly white environment given that it's racially open-minded; for if the offer was in Seattle or Denver, I would be packing up my bags tonight. But given the location, I do have my reservations. However, what makes me less hesitant is the seething covert racism I constantly face in DC from these so-called liberals, with the worst offenders being yuppies who are around my age. Add that with the overt intra-racism I get from my so-called people for not acting "black enough", I'm about had it with DC and the East Coast in general. And needless to say, I'm not getting a lot of play from any sides of the racial fence.

Also something I wanted to add as well is that have you looked at mixed-raced women or mixed-raced people in general for friendship? As funny as it sounds, it's true, they too suffer from a lot of racial confusion and that is something you will have in common with them (if you are being rejected by blacks for not being "black enough" and not completely accepted by whites due to your race).

If I am not mistaken I think you made a post in the past about how it was hard for light-skinned black men to crack a lot of the white girls who go for black men. I am light skinned and I seemed to be having this problem too. I feel that a lot of white girls (and "full" raced women in general) look for the contrast when they are dating interracially so they go for the dark-skinned brotha. I had a lot of dark skinned black women attracted to me sexually due to my light skin and light eyes but once they found out I wasn't "down" or had no "swag" they cashed in their chips and left. A mixed-raced woman will most likely look for a "mutt" like them and for someone who is just normal and doesn't subscribe to any generic racial structure, and they have been the source for a lot of my lays (I'm often mistaken for being mixed). And they tend to be the most open minded too given the fact they were a product of it. DC has a lot of mixed raced girls and all it takes is a Plenty-Of-Fish search (they have that option) and start hollering.

Over 2/3 of the friends I have made in my life were races other than black or white (Latino, Asian, Indian, Middle Eastern, etc) and in nearly all of those social scenarios, there's been more of a "one of the guys/equal footing" vibe I got compared to when I was around blacks and whites, specifically those in the DC Area. But to be fair, I've been to places outside the Beltway where whites and blacks were cool with me as well.

But as for mixed people, at least when it comes to the DC Area, they tend to be the worst racially. The majority of them (males) were either overcompensating by being super thugged out or only associated with whites, with 90 percent of them being in the former category. But the mixed/light skin females have been the worst. Either they ONLY date dark-skinned black men or ONLY date white men. In the DMV, I have NEVER seen a couple that consists of two light-skin/biracial people.

When people say DC is a "Black Mecca", it's with an asterisk, and that "Mecca" is only for dark skinned people. Not hating, but I have to keep it 100. This is no region for light-skin/half-blacks. That's one of the main reasons I'm so over this place. But thanks for your recommendation nevertheless; You've been having my back for a while, and it's not being unnoticed.


But I thank everyone who has given the more detailed advice thus far, particularly the neighborhoods and strategic reasons why to move. I'm leaning on moving there mostly because of the company I'll be contracted with (it's worth over $20 billion USD and has over 75,000 employees) and as a stepping stone to go one of my "goal cities" in the future within the company. As for visiting SLC, I'm planning to do a stint there this weekend. I know it isn't the best indication for how life is in that city, but given my limited schedule and the holiday, it's the best I can do. And I feel it should be enough time to test the gaming potential and see the general reaction to someone like myself.

Day in and day out, the vast majority of black people who I see in the D.C. area are either from some other country or the are the children of immigrants. It looks to me that black Americans and people of mixed race are small minorities, just like white Americans are in much of the D.C. area (Bethesda, Frederick, Damascus, Potomac, and higher end areas of Northwest D.C. are the only places I know which have a white majority). I don't know if I'm off it on this or if I'm only exposed to places where black Americans and white Americans are a tiny minority.

The native black population of DC is shrinking every year. Many of those ghetto blacks are being pushed into PG county in favor yuppies coming in to DC to make big bucks.

For places that have your typical native white and black population, you'll need to go north of Prince Georges county MD, to Anne Arundel county and Baltimore etc. Or further south beyond PW county in Virginia. As a side note: Alexandria has a decent sized native black population as well.

Agreed on all counts, except that I didn't know that Alexandria has a decent sized native black population. I avoid both Virginia and D.C. like the plague. I've clearly posted about how to get both white girls and Hispanic girls in this area, and neither Virginia nor D.C. is the place. Also, if you go south of P.G. to Charles and St. Mary's County (both total shitholes) there is also a big white population and a pretty big native black population in Waldorf.

[Off The Reservation]

Get the offer, go out and see the facility and the city and then decide.

Get the offer and don't be afraid to say no but get the offer.

If you like Denver you will most likely at least be ok with SLC.

[Orson]

Good to hear from the OP!

Utah has great outdoor scenery - BETTER and easier to accessed, year round, than Colorado's more famous outdoors. And since it isn't "Colorado," and since you won't be doing family things - like the locals - the splendor is all the more yours...for only the time invested.

On a short trip, try and visit Park City or Snowbird (in Little Cottonwood Canyon, accessible via light rail and a bus ride) - world class gorgeous.

At Temple Square (home of the LDS Church), tight to downtown, there will be big crowds of sightseers. Don't worry, though - they're friendly and welcoming. (The LDS Church is nothing if not organized and friendly.)

[Diop]

(12-24-2015 07:31 AM)Orson Wrote:  

At Temple Square (home of the LDS Church), tight to downtown, there will be big crowds of sightseers. Don't worry, though - they're friendly and welcoming. (The LDS Church is nothing if not organized and friendly.)

Absolutely, I realized I left this part out of my earlier post. Others have mentioned it, but just about every single member of the LDS church I came across during my summer in SLC couldn't have been more pleasant and friendly both in and outside of work. It was a nice change from the cold and distant disposition I was used to from my time living and working on the east coast. Even though I could tell they saw me as "different" and perhaps "not one of them" in a subtle way at the office, everyone was still very, very nice the entire time I was there.

People in my present day life occasionally mention how weird Mormons can be when the subject comes up, but I'm usually quick to defend how nice and kind-hearted they are based on my time in SLC. I will always admire them for that.

[Orson]

Mormon culture promotes excellence at two things: salesmanship, and service. For many men in the Church, this leads to being p-whipped.

Which leaves greater pickings for those who man-up. Carpe Deim, Sus!

[Sebastian]

SLC is white people town. You won't see brothers in normal daily life. But you will see many black dudes just in few dance clubs in dtown. (that's just honest observation) Regular bars are filled with white people too. I don't know if this would be an advantage or disadvantage for nightlife.

White people in SLC are pretty mellow, courteous and pretty nice (at least on your face. don't know what they think in their mind)
If you got that manly black man vibe which might be just normal in metro cities, then people might get little afraid of you.

[Orson]

Diop speaks well and truthfully about the Utah experience; that is, his account closely reflects my experience as well. I started visiting with my university ski club during Christmas break for a week each year.

And SuS, you've got urgent MAIL OF INTEREST regarding apartments, etc - check your mailbox.

[deuce]

I live in SLC. Drop me a PM if you want.

[SuS]

This is long overdue and has been delayed mainly due to the feeling that I haven't been here long enough. But I figure that I owe most of you a progress report. So I decided to make the jump to Salt Lake City, and:

The Positives:

-The people overall are friendlier. People are more willing to smile and nod their heads in the street. Conversations can be had easier with a random person in a proper environment. And a person who is fairly extroverted can easily make friends. And despite how reclusive they can be at times, Mormons are generally a cordial, tolerant, and pleasant group of people. SLC for me is friendly to the point that I'm somewhat caught off guard in how to react due to the routine nastiness and passive-aggressiveness I constantly dealt with back in DC. I'll elaborate my personal hurdle about this later.
-The weather. Now it isn't California weather, and from what I'm hearing, 4-6 months in SLC is mostly snow or cold weather. But that's still better than the 6-8 months of cold weather or humidity heat in DC.
-Outdoor activities are everywhere and from what I've heard are the main attractions of the state, especially considering the recent commercial campaign of its national and state parks. From skiing and snowboarding to hiking and biking, if you love the outdoors, you'll love Utah. Even the parks, specifically Liberty Park, are a local social destination.
-Crime is virtually non-existent compared to other cities even of a similar size. And the police I have encountered have been cordial, which is a relief as a black man.
-Politically, Utah's more libertarian than conservative despite it being a hardcore red state. Even though the LDS influence in the state government causes a few unconventional rules with alcohol and nightlife, it's not that oppressive in everyday life and has allowed the state to maintain its infrastructure, build a healthy economy, and have an actual middle class.
-SLC does have somewhat of a counter-culture out of the rebellion of the LDS/Mormon influence of the state. The LDS influence isn't as overbearing in the city as it is in other places especially like Provo and Brigham City. And with that, a lot of counter-culture girls that will be more down for whatever.
-The quality of women here, especially the Mormon girls, are some of the best I've witnessed. However, a lot of them are still Mormon, which although aren't impossible to bed, are more difficult in multiple ways.
-There are a lot of colleges nearby, which is beneficial for any single guy. Besides the U or U (University of Utah), there’s BYU (the Mormon school), Weber State, and Utah State. For some really low hanging fruit, you can also try out the talent at Salt Lake Community College (SLCC).
-It’s closer to a lot of places that I have more interest in visiting like The Bay Area, SoCal, Seattle, Vancouver, Denver, and multiple National Parks. In DC, the only place that I cared to travel to multiple times was NYC.
-The environment is more of a “work to live” atmosphere as opposed to a “live to work” environment on the East Coast. Working a 40 hour job will have all of your needs met financially in comparison to places like NYC and DC where in order to live a decent life, working 50-60 hours is the expectation.
-Race relations are notably better here than in DC and the East Coast. Most people are just neutral and some will be intrigued by your presence if you’re a minority, especially if you’re black. Now you will come into some unwanted customer service and hear some asshats spew subtly racist shit, but those are the minority of encounters. Especially compared to whites and other non-blacks in the East Coast in that while the majority won't say anything racist to you, the same majority will make it well known that you aren't liked nor wanted in other ways.

The Negatives:

-The social scene is very tight-knit. Unless you were raised here or attended a nearby university, finding a social circle is a hurdle.
-Not a lot of social activities to do in general compared to other mid-sized cities, which leaves options of gaming or just meeting people at a minimum. Even SLC tends to cater to families during most evenings, which can be a good or a bad thing depending on where you are in life.
-Closing time for many bars range from last call (12:30am) to 1:00am. And a lot of places, specifically social places are closed or relatively empty on Sundays.
-Downtown SLC is essentially a ghost town from Sunday to Wednesday evenings. Now there are other places that are slightly more "active" like Sugarhouse and Park City, but overall, the Wasatch Front attends church and/or stays home on Sunday.
-For every fine Mormon girl, there’s an overweight friend right beside her. It’s very notable especially among the non-LDS crowd, which is what you’re probably going to be dealing with if you’re in SLC. But then again, I’m one of the weird black guys who aren’t into “thick” women.
-There is a small but notable presence of a - for a lack of a better term - European reject white trash. And while they are a small minority, their actions will stand out if only because their conduct is the norm.

Personal successes:

-In the few months I've been here, I've had more fun and banged more women here in that short time than I did in Washington DC during the last year. And I'm not counting those who've I’m working to close the deal. Most of these females have been white of course, but a sprinkle of sexually repressed Mormon girls and Latinas, one of them being a Mormon Latina.
-I'm able to live in a place of my own. Now I've been out of my parents' home since I was 22, but all of my housing has either been with roommates or with friends. In SLC, you can make in the upper five-digits and live like a king if you know how to handle your money.
-I've traveled to multiple other places for the weekend like Denver, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles, and I have been able to get one bang from all of those trips. Not that those were my main priority, but compared to DC and the East Coast, they came way easier. I plan to eventually take extended trips to the Bay Area, San Diego, and Seattle, areas where if I wanted to set roots in America, it would probably between those three places.
-Despite some stressful transitioning, I have felt more of a peace of mind mentally and psychologically, which is the main reason moving from DC and the East Coast. Honestly, it’s to the point I can feel my life expectancy increase by just moving out to this part of the country.

Personal hurdle:

This isn’t really about SLC but more of a mental hang-up of what I dealt with growing up in DC. Having to grow up in the worst parts of the DMV and being from a place where the people are cliquey, with the only social scenes were either trust-fund douches or ghetto hoodlums, and the women ranging from bitches to cunts, I’ll admit that my socialization skills have been somewhat stunted. The saving grace is that I hung out with a tight knit group of friends, albeit most of them I met in college and most of them scattered across the country afterwards. Coming to a new city where I don't know a soul, I'm quickly realizing that social circle is the best way to meet girls (and people in general). However, a lot of the social circle seems to form from childhood to college.

Dating apps, while an improvement in SLC compared to DC, aren’t too impressive neither given the effort. Now the matches, meetups, “bases”, and hookups I have had in SLC during the few months exceed what I had in DC for initial year I started. At first, I was getting matches, dates, and more out of the ass. But this past week, I had five consecutive flakes ranging from sudden illness, overtime at work, start of a new job, miscommunication of being out of town, and just plain AWOLness. Henceforth, my honeymoon with the apps (and SLC to a certain degree) has deteriorated. And although I have done some approaches mainly at bars, I’ve never been the kind of guy to approach in general. And being from DC, approaching as a non-stereotypical black male is a waste of time at best and a one way ticket to mental anguish at worst. And I don’t want to be known as "that guy" who relies on bars, clubs, and dating apps to get ass, especially since the nightlife scene is very provincial where everyone goes the same several places.

So my question at this point is where do you meet people and form a good circle of friends? The people here are friendly enough to strike a casual conversation with. But as for long term social circles, that’s been sort of an issue since that was nearly impossible for me when I lived in DC. Any advice would do.

tl;dr

SLC - and Utah in general - is a hidden gem that I would recommend any male to at least visit and check out. The state and even most of the city has a very untainted vibe about it; untainted of the feminist, SJW, urban subculture, and other ills that have made America socially inhospitable for men to live in. You’re allowed to be as masculine as you want and won’t get penalized. Politically, it's more libertarian than conservative despite of the LDS influence in the state's politics. My hope on a selfish level is that the South Central and Oakland “crowd” doesn’t flock out here en masse in order to fuck it up for the “oreos” like myself who live out here and want to come here. Anyone can take that last sentence in any context, but I have spent enough of my life answering to and for a subculture I not only go out of my way to not resemble but vehemently hate. It’s also one the reasons why I moved from DC and the East Coast. SLC and Utah have been good so far, but I am seeing some benign scratches on the rose-colored glasses. But on an optimistic note, I anticipate that those scratches won’t develop into cracks and more likely will get patched in due time.

[ball dont lie]

(04-25-2016 01:06 AM)SuS Wrote:  

So my question at this point is where do you meet people and form a good circle of friends? The people here are friendly enough to strike a casual conversation with. But as for long term social circles, that’s been sort of an issue since that was nearly impossible for me when I lived in DC. Any advice would do.

I don't know Utah or LDS people. But I went to school in the Rockies and I'm from the Midwest, friendly and outdoorsy people I understand.

My first advice would be: What kind of outdoor activities do you like? If you don't like any, which are you prepared to start doing to see if you like them?

I would suggest rock climbing first and foremost. Girls that do it are hot. You are likely in good shape if on RVF, rock climbing will be fun. Its a lot like weight lifting in that each climb is like a hard set. But when you rest, there are a group of other people to hang out with and chat, all in good shape.

If not rock climbing I would suggest activities like ultimate Frisbee or even Frisbee golf, mountain biking, look for organized backpacking trips (even with LDS people, never know until you try it). Do you play any sports such as basketball or softball? Join a league or go to the LDS church and see if they have an intermural league.

I like board games, especially in the winter. LDS people are really into them. Some of them are very difficult - think chess, not monopoly. My job is pretty mindless so I like to get some intellectual stimulation and hang out with some nerdy guys once in a while. Im a reformed nerdy guy myself.

Those are things I would recommend to start immediately.

[262]

(04-25-2016 01:06 AM)SuS Wrote:  

So my question at this point is where do you meet people and form a good circle of friends? The people here are friendly enough to strike a casual conversation with. But as for long term social circles, that’s been sort of an issue since that was nearly impossible for me when I lived in DC. Any advice would do.

Thanks for the update!

In return, hopefully this will help -

You can cold approach to make friends. Like any cold approach though, a good chunk of leads will flake or go nowhere.

You can also "warm approach." Go regularly to the places that have the crowd you want, and make conversation with everyone. Over time, friendships will form.

In both of the above cases, you've got to give value before you receive it - good emotions, advice, etc. And obviously, you've got to put in the work and give it time.

[WestIndianArchie]

Take a class at the community college, language preferably.

Good to hear that you found your niche.

I know I was initially skeptical, so I'll take my L!

WIA

[Akula]

does anyone here have any comment on the dry climate and lack of humidity in SLC (and the western US states mostly too)? Does it really start to "dry you out" and cause skin and/or sinus issues (I've heard you don't get allergies out there, but due to the dryness you can develop more sinus/breathing issues not sure why - true?).

Also every time I'm out west for a few weeks my skin gets dry and flaky pretty quick so just was wondering how much of an issue this is on a longer-term basis. Thx.

[Kish]

Even Utah is better than DC. Amazing.

[therealpoder]

It's good to hear that you're having better success in SLC.

By the way, are there any types of guys that are really successful in DC dating? I know it sucks for dating but some types of guys must do well there, right?

[Travesty]

Akula,

I think you're skin is just weesh. I lived at high altitude in Denver where it is a very dry climate with wind and sun no flakiness and neither did many other people have a huge problem. Some girls wore some more moisturizer and people did drink more water.

---

As for SLC just being there:

- Liberty Park had some weird homeless, young drug white street kids, some medieval role play people. No really hot girls some older 20's in the 6 range. Think Wash Park in Denver just not as good (Wash Park is kinda nice, but no Central Park by a mile)

- Homeless around more than you except

- People are either well raised Mormom, street punk druggie types, or white trash

- Very clean, yet small downtown.

- Surrounding neighborhoods all have alot of small older 1 story ranch homes, a little rustic looking very middle class, money goes far in real estate.

- I think you would have to love daygaming white Mormon chicks and outdoor activities to love this city.

- Nightlife: closes 1Am, no double drinks, no liquor sold on Sunday as I remember.

[floor7]

Early 30's, indian american male that lived in DC and made the move out west. Do it. Utah is stunningly beautiful. Do it just for the quality of life & benefits to your health. The only way I would ever live in DC again is if it was for a job that I loved and I couldn't do it anywhere else. Most jobs are not of that sort, especially private sector jobs.

Edit - didn't realize OP made the jump to SLC and was posting an update. My bad.