[speakeasy]

Very interesting article.

Quote:

This idealization of Brazil, however, is
clearly disproved by an examination of both the history of miscegenation and statistics of interracial
marriages. The racial mixing of the country’s past was never based on relations of
equality and analysis of contemporary Brazil reveals the rarity of racial mixing due to continued
marginalization of the black community (especially women) and the persistence of racist
sentiment reflected in family values and the media.

This is easy for people to forget. All the mixed race people there are mixed because Portuguese slave masters were fucking black slaves like crazy as well as indigenous women. Not because people there now are mixing so much. You go up to the beach at Leblon and everybody looks white and rich, then go down to Copacabana beach and the skin hues are much darker and poorer looking. There's a surprising amount of self-segregation in Brazil. Especially for a country that touts itself as a racial democracy.

I do think though that Brazil handles interracial couples better than the US. I can tell this just from experience. If I'm anywhere in the US, even in liberal parts, being in company of white females in public always draws rubber-necking and gazes. While this didn't happen at all to me when I was in Brazil. Nobody seemed to notice or care. But racism in Brazil is a tough thing to grasp if you are used to American racism which is much more straight forward. For example, a few incidents happened to me within a 20 minute period in Lapa. I was about to walk into a restaurant where some friends were(white). The door guy was about to stop me from coming in, like I was a begger or something. Then we he saw I only spoke English and my friends were waving me over, he let me in. I sat down at the the table. There were some white Americans I'd made friends with as well as an attractive white Brazil woman and her husband. The white Brazilian woman started acting flirtateous and giving me kino right there in front of her boyfriend, but also saying some racist things, like that she doesn't see why the word "nigger" is offensive and that we Americans are way too sensitive and she uses racial terms to her non-white friends and nobody cares. I'm feeling like I'm in the twilight zone at this point. She then starts talking about sex and how she likes to mess around with girls too. She ended up inviting me to a BBQ party she was having in Santa Theresa and we exchanged info but that was the last I'd heard from her. Weird shit and kind of sums up why the complexity of race in Brazil can be so hard for Americans to wrap their heads around.

[speakeasy]

Very interesting article.

Quote:

This idealization of Brazil, however, is
clearly disproved by an examination of both the history of miscegenation and statistics of interracial
marriages. The racial mixing of the country’s past was never based on relations of
equality and analysis of contemporary Brazil reveals the rarity of racial mixing due to continued
marginalization of the black community (especially women) and the persistence of racist
sentiment reflected in family values and the media.

This is easy for people to forget. All the mixed race people there are mixed because Portuguese slave masters were fucking black slaves like crazy as well as indigenous women. Not because people there now are mixing so much. You go up to the beach at Leblon and everybody looks white and rich, then go down to Copacabana beach and the skin hues are much darker and poorer looking. There's a surprising amount of self-segregation in Brazil. Especially for a country that touts itself as a racial democracy.

I do think though that Brazil handles interracial couples better than the US. I can tell this just from experience. If I'm anywhere in the US, even in liberal parts, being in company of white females in public always draws rubber-necking and gazes. While this didn't happen at all to me when I was in Brazil. Nobody seemed to notice or care. But racism in Brazil is a tough thing to grasp if you are used to American racism which is much more straight forward. For example, a few incidents happened to me within a 20 minute period in Lapa. I was about to walk into a restaurant where some friends were(white). The door guy was about to stop me from coming in, like I was a begger or something. Then we he saw I only spoke English, he let me in. I sat down at the the table. There were some white Americans I'd made friends with as well as an attractive white Brazil woman and her boyfriend. The white Brazilian woman started acting flirtateous and giving me kino right there in front of her boyfriend, but also saying some racist things, like that she doesn't see why the word "nigger" is offensive and that we Americans are way too sensitive and she uses racial terms to her non-white friends and nobody cares. I'm feeling like I'm in the twilight zone at this point. She then starts talking about sex and how she likes to mess around with girls too. She ended up inviting me to a BBQ party she was having in Santa Theresa and we exchanged info but that was the last I'd heard from her. Weird shit and kind of sums up why the complexity of race in Brazil can be so hard for Americans to wrap their heads around.

[speakeasy]

Very interesting article.

Quote:

This idealization of Brazil, however, is
clearly disproved by an examination of both the history of miscegenation and statistics of interracial
marriages. The racial mixing of the country’s past was never based on relations of
equality and analysis of contemporary Brazil reveals the rarity of racial mixing due to continued
marginalization of the black community (especially women) and the persistence of racist
sentiment reflected in family values and the media.

This is easy for people to forget. All the mixed race people there are mixed because Portuguese slave masters were fucking black slaves like crazy as well as indigenous women. Not because people there now are mixing so much. You go up to the beach at Leblon and everybody looks white and rich, then go down to Copacabana beach and the skin hues are much darker and poorer looking. There's a surprising amount of self-segregation in Brazil. Especially for a country that touts itself as a racial democracy.

I do think though that Brazil handles interracial couples better than the US. I can tell this just from experience. If I'm anywhere in the US, even in liberal parts, being in company of white females in public always draws rubber-necking and gazes. While this didn't happen at all to me when I was in Brazil. Nobody seemed to notice or care. But racism in Brazil is a tough thing to grasp if you are used to American racism which is much more straight forward. For example, a few incidents happened to me within a 20 minute period in Lapa. I was about to walk into a restaurant where some friends were(white). The door guy was about to stop me from coming in, like I was a begger or something. Then we he saw I only spoke English, he let me in. I sat down at the the table. There were some white Americans I'd made friends with as well as an attractive white Brazil woman and her boyfriend. The white Brazilian woman started acting flirtateous and giving me kino right there in front of her boyfriend saying sexual things, but also saying some racist things, like that she doesn't think the word "nigger" is offensive and that we Americans are way too sensitive and she uses racial terms to her non-white friends and nobody cares. I'm feeling like I'm in the twilight zone at this point. She then starts talking about sex and how she likes to mess around with girls too. She ended up inviting me to a BBQ party she was having in Santa Theresa and we exchanged info but that was the last I'd heard from her. Weird shit and kind of sums up why the complexity of race in Brazil can be so hard for Americans to wrap their heads around.

[speakeasy]

Very interesting article.

Quote:

This idealization of Brazil, however, is
clearly disproved by an examination of both the history of miscegenation and statistics of interracial
marriages. The racial mixing of the country’s past was never based on relations of
equality and analysis of contemporary Brazil reveals the rarity of racial mixing due to continued
marginalization of the black community (especially women) and the persistence of racist
sentiment reflected in family values and the media.

This is easy for people to forget. All the mixed race people there are mixed because Portuguese slave masters were fucking black slaves like crazy as well as indigenous women. Not because people there now are mixing so much. You go up to the beach at Leblon and everybody looks white and rich, then go down to Copacabana beach and the skin hues are much darker and poorer looking. There's a surprising amount of self-segregation in Brazil. Especially for a country that touts itself as a racial democracy.

I do think though that Brazil handles interracial couples better than the US. I can tell this just from experience. If I'm anywhere in the US, even in liberal parts, being in company of white females in public always draws rubber-necking and gazes. While this didn't happen at all to me when I was in Brazil. Nobody seemed to notice or care. But racism in Brazil is a tough thing to grasp if you are used to American racism which is much more straight forward. For example, a few incidents happened to me within a 20 minute period in Lapa. I was about to walk into a restaurant where some friends were(white). The door guy was about to stop me from coming in, like I was a begger or something. Then we he saw I only spoke English, he let me in. I sat down at the the table. There were some white Americans I'd made friends with as well as an attractive white Brazil woman and her boyfriend. The white Brazilian woman started acting flirtateous and giving me kino right there in front of her boyfriend saying sexual things, but also saying some racist things, like that she doesn't think the word "nigger" is offensive and that we Americans are way too sensitive and she uses racial terms to her non-white friends and nobody cares. I'm feeling like I'm in the twilight zone at this point. She then starts talking about sex and how she likes to mess around with girls too. She ended up inviting me to a BBQ party she was having in Santa Theresa and asked for my number. Weird shit and kind of sums up why the complexity of race in Brazil can be so hard for Americans to wrap their heads around.

[Excelsior]

(06-28-2011 11:29 AM)Global Baller Wrote:  

(06-28-2011 02:51 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

Very interesting read that interview. Being white as the first flakes of snow in the winter I can't really relate but if American black men experience this kind of alienation form "their own" women I kinda feel for them.

A relatively small segment of the Afr-Am male population are alienated from Black women. Most Black American men (95%+) are married to (or in relationships with) Black American women. Just like there's a segment of Swedish males who travel to Asia (particularly, Thailand) for women -- a small segment of Afr-Am men travel to Brasil for women.

I'd actually contend that the alienation is not only felt by men who travel, and is rooted pretty deeply in Black America today. There are many more guys who never travel and express the same concerns about black american women some of those men in Brazil will talk about, and there are black men in America who will only see white American (or Asian/Hispanic American) women.

To just be frank about it, there is a lot of tension and mistrust between Black American women and Black American men, and a lot of that mistrust (and black male romanticization of other races/nationalities of women) stems from the fact that black American women just aren't very easy to date or deal with.

I can go on and on about it, but to save this thread from that and get an idea where some of this tension comes from, I'd recommend that Vicious take a look at this thread if he hasn't already. Read it through and you'll understand what's up.

[speakeasy]

Sorry for the accidental multiple posts. The board can get buggy sometimes as of late when posting. Roosh, you can delete all but my last one.

[UrbanNerd]

(06-28-2011 03:37 PM)Diablo Wrote:  

@UrbanNerd - I never take that mentally of odds when it comes to anything. If I gonna do something I need to be guaranteed a success otherwise its a waste of my time.

I don't think anyplace on earth is going to be a "guaranteed success" while there is still some sort of racism existing. There is always some sort of "angst" against black men everywhere. On this site, we are just trying to find the destinations where this racism (at least with dating/gaming) is minimized.

Even IF it is minimized, that means that there IS a slight chance that being a black male COULD be of a negative impact, so to offset that, one may need to approach a few extra women just in case you come across one that is against black men (for whatever reason).

[Mr.GM]

(06-28-2011 05:58 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

But racism in Brazil is a tough thing to grasp if you are used to American racism which is much more straight forward.

Speakeasy, I give you a point on that one.We usually use the expression "Preconceito velado" (Disguised prejudice) to describe the race issue in Brazil.People will not say bad things in front of you but sometimes you MAY feel a weird vibe , and a different treatment from police and in some upper class spots if you are black.
But If you don't dress like a poor favela guy , odds are that this thing will never happen to you.Again, believe me , its all about social classes down here.As a gringo you'll instantly DHV.

A white skinned man that looks poor will also be bad treated by people in upper class places.The problem is some black guys carry a ship on their sholders and start to believe that if a girl doesn't like them its because of their color.It is not true.Seriously there are tons of blond girls with black guys here , and I mean not rich ones.

[Diablo]

@Mr.GM, So if I follow your logic...Suppose a darker skinned man lived in Brazil, had mucho cash and dressed good. He too will clean house?

[Mr.GM]

(06-28-2011 10:24 PM)Diablo Wrote:  

@Mr.GM, So if I follow your logic...Suppose a darker skinned man lived in Brazil, had mucho cash and dressed good. He too will clean house?

well "clean house" will depend on a combination of finding fishbowl/niche ,your looks ,your game and money.My point is that this examples of couples are very usual in brazil , almost everyone here has a brown/ black friends here dating white , asian dating blond etc . Real picsin one of them is the player Neymar BEFORE he became famous with girl + her mother and the second one is from a friend of mine and his girlfriend.)

   

   

[Diablo]

Um MR. GM these folks may have some black ancestry but if you've ever heard the expression "blick" like Pele or Wesley snipes. These guys can pass the brown paper bag test.

[Excelsior]

(06-28-2011 10:01 PM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

A white skinned man that looks poor will also be bad treated by people in upper class places.The problem is some black guys carry a ship on their sholders and start to believe that if a girl doesn't like them its because of their color.It is not true.Seriously there are tons of blond girls with black guys here , and I mean not rich ones.

Race is a very large factor in one's outcome as a man. I won't deny that some men may apply it as a factor when it is not needed, but it is still crucial in many cases.

Several years ago I may have agreed with you, but today after having endured two years of university I've seen the other side of the picture, and as a black man I can understand where a lot of those men with chips on their shoulders are coming from.

The fact is that women set bars for entry, and men must rise above this bar in order to have a realistic shot at them. There are many women who will set FAR higher bars of entry for black men than they will for others, and it is annoying. The fact that a few(usually lighter skinned) black men manage to overcome it doesn't help much.

I understand that it is not healthy to dwell on this reality too much as a man and bitch constantly, but I see where the anger comes from.

[Excelsior]

(06-28-2011 10:40 PM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

well "clean house" will depend on a combination of finding fishbowl/niche ,your looks ,your game and money.My point is that this examples of couples are very usual in brazil , almost everyone here has a brown/ black friends here dating white , asian dating blond etc . Real picsin one of them is the player Neymar BEFORE he became famous with girl + her mother and the second one is from a friend of mine and his girlfriend.)

You can't use lighter skinned men as key examples of how interracial dating happens.

I go to a college where white women are not very receptive to hooking up with black men, and this fact is quite well known. It is also well known that they are much more receptive here to lighter skinned men than darker ones, and many of the black guys here who do manage to do well are lighter(either light eyes, light skin or both). This trend is repeated in many other places where problems with interracial dating are observed-people will point out exceptions to show that such couples are somewhat acceptable, but those exceptions are almost invariably lighter skinned men.

I want to know how the guy in jean shorts to the very far left of the first picture would do, as well as how other men like him would fare.

[Diablo]

(06-29-2011 04:09 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(06-28-2011 10:40 PM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

well "clean house" will depend on a combination of finding fishbowl/niche ,your looks ,your game and money.My point is that this examples of couples are very usual in brazil , almost everyone here has a brown/ black friends here dating white , asian dating blond etc . Real picsin one of them is the player Neymar BEFORE he became famous with girl + her mother and the second one is from a friend of mine and his girlfriend.)

You can't use lighter skinned men as key examples of how interracial dating happens.

I go to a college where white women are not very receptive to hooking up with black men, and this fact is quite well known. It is also well known that they are much more receptive here to lighter skinned men than darker ones, and many of the black guys here who do manage to do well are lighter(either light eyes, light skin or both). This trend is repeated in many other places where problems with interracial dating are observed-people will point out exceptions to show that such couples are somewhat acceptable, but those exceptions are almost invariably lighter skinned men.

I want to know how the guy in jean shorts to the very far left of the first picture would do, as well as how other men like him would fare.

Exactly

Mr.GM we are talking about men that look like Pele - the Brazilian footballer. He has more African Ancestry then the post of those guys you posted. And he is far darker then the guy you posted.

This is a pic of him and his ex-wife (who is pretty ordinary looking if I may say so). Now this is no ordinary guy. He is the Ambassador for fifa and is considered by many to be the greatest footballer that has ever lived (better than Maradona). He is like the Muhammad Ali of football (or soccer as the Americans call it).

[Vicious]

(06-28-2011 07:26 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

I can go on and on about it, but to have this thread from that and get an idea where some of this tension comes from, I'd recommend that Vicious take a look at this thread if he hasn't already. Read it through and you'll understand what's up.

Yeah, actually it was that thread first and the article I quote above that both widened my eyes to the chasm between black men/women in the US. Having gone to HS in the US and traveled there frequently I'm surprised that I had not picked up on this.

[Mr.GM]

(06-29-2011 04:53 AM)Diablo Wrote:  

Exactly

Mr.GM we are talking about men that look like Pele - the Brazilian footballer. He has more African Ancestry then the post of those guys you posted. And he is far darker then the guy you posted.

This is a pic of him and his ex-wife (who is pretty ordinary looking if I may say so). Now this is no ordinary guy. He is the Ambassador for fifa and is considered by many to be the greatest footballer that has ever lived (better than Maradona). He is like the Muhammad Ali of football (or soccer as the Americans call it).

You have a point, and I can't really say for sure because I'm considered white here and most of the african-brazilian guys I know are lighter skinned like those in the pics.
But it is not rare at all to see interracial couples of all kinds here ,I guess not all the white girls will feel attracted to black guys but some will do.It's all about finding your Fishbowl,like Giovonny said.

*Sidenoteelé has dated several models and blonds(like TV host Xuxa in the 2nd pic),and like you said he is no longer married with the woman in the pic you posted.His current wife is blond

   

   

[UrbanNerd]

Damn Pele...I mean if you gonna...

...AT LEAST.....

Ahhhh...let me stop.

[rudebwoy]

(06-29-2011 04:53 AM)Diablo Wrote:  

(06-29-2011 04:09 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(06-28-2011 10:40 PM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

well "clean house" will depend on a combination of finding fishbowl/niche ,your looks ,your game and money.My point is that this examples of couples are very usual in brazil , almost everyone here has a brown/ black friends here dating white , asian dating blond etc . Real picsin one of them is the player Neymar BEFORE he became famous with girl + her mother and the second one is from a friend of mine and his girlfriend.)

You can't use lighter skinned men as key examples of how interracial dating happens.

I go to a college where white women are not very receptive to hooking up with black men, and this fact is quite well known. It is also well known that they are much more receptive here to lighter skinned men than darker ones, and many of the black guys here who do manage to do well are lighter(either light eyes, light skin or both). This trend is repeated in many other places where problems with interracial dating are observed-people will point out exceptions to show that such couples are somewhat acceptable, but those exceptions are almost invariably lighter skinned men.

I want to know how the guy in jean shorts to the very far left of the first picture would do, as well as how other men like him would fare.

Exactly

Mr.GM we are talking about men that look like Pele - the Brazilian footballer. He has more African Ancestry then the post of those guys you posted. And he is far darker then the guy you posted.

This is a pic of him and his ex-wife (who is pretty ordinary looking if I may say so). Now this is no ordinary guy. He is the Ambassador for fifa and is considered by many to be the greatest footballer that has ever lived (better than Maradona). He is like the Muhammad Ali of football (or soccer as the Americans call it).

Pele is no ordinary guy so I don;t understand why he is mentioned in this post, I mean he is probably the most famous Brazilian out there and can get almost any Brazilian woman he chooses (In his prime). Are we really going to judge the legend or provide insights into adventures in Brazil. The picture above looks like it was from the early 60's, the lady might have been a looker for those times.

Neymar could pimp alot of girls in almost any country, girls in Canada love men that have that look.

[Excelsior]

(06-29-2011 08:32 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Pele is no ordinary guy so I don;t understand why he is mentioned in this post, I mean he is probably the most famous Brazilian out there and can get almost any Brazilian woman he chooses (In his prime). Are we really going to judge the legend or provide insights into adventures in Brazil. The picture above looks like it was from the early 60's, the lady might have been a looker for those times.

I think you missed the point. Diablo didn't bring Pele up to judge his lifestyle and compare it with the average black man's, and he too noted(using the exact same words you did, in fact) that Pele was "no ordinary guy".

The reason he mentioned Pele was to give a visual idea of what we mean when we asked Mr. GM how black guys do in Brazil. Too often when questioned on the status of black dating in Brazil, a responder will go on to say he/she knows many black men who date whiter Brazilian girls and will list them. The problem is that they are almost invariably lighter skinned, and that makes the anecdote nearly useless for a darker skinned dude. Yes, your complexion does affect your outcome.

Diablo, in response to this trend(which I outlined earlier in this thread) put pictures of Pele up as an example of the demographic of black man we really want to hear about. We'd like to know specifically how men who look like Pele(minus the soccer stardom) do interracially with Brazilian girls.

Judging from what I've heard about Brazilian dating both on this forum and in other places, I'm guessing they don't do too well. It seems like guys who look like Pele and must go to Brazil ought to stick to the Northeast or to darker girls in Rio and elsewhere, unless they make bank.

[speakeasy]

The very fact that dark black people exist and pure white people exist in Brazil after hundreds of years of living in the same country tells you everything you need to know. If there was no racism/self-segregation, there would be no distinguishable group, they would've all fucked each other into a mulatto nation. When two racial groups can live side by side in a country for centuries yet still remain racially distinguishable, there are obviously social stigmas or legal segregation at work.

[speakeasy]

Don't forget Roosh's post on this topic:

http://www.rooshv.com/danish-roommate-in-brazil

[Diablo]

(06-29-2011 08:57 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(06-29-2011 08:32 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Pele is no ordinary guy so I don;t understand why he is mentioned in this post, I mean he is probably the most famous Brazilian out there and can get almost any Brazilian woman he chooses (In his prime). Are we really going to judge the legend or provide insights into adventures in Brazil. The picture above looks like it was from the early 60's, the lady might have been a looker for those times.

I think you missed the point. Diablo didn't bring Pele up to judge his lifestyle and compare it with the average black man's, and he too noted(using the exact same words you did, in fact) that Pele was "no ordinary guy".

The reason he mentioned Pele was to give a visual idea of what we mean when we asked Mr. GM how black guys do in Brazil. Too often when questioned on the status of black dating in Brazil, a responder will go on to say he/she knows many black men who date whiter Brazilian girls and will list them. The problem is that they are almost invariably lighter skinned, and that makes the anecdote nearly useless for a darker skinned dude. Yes, your complexion does affect your outcome.

Diablo, in response to this trend(which I outlined earlier in this thread) put pictures of Pele up as an example of the demographic of black man we really want to hear about. We'd like to know specifically how men who look like Pele(minus the soccer stardom) do interracially with Brazilian girls.

Judging from what I've heard about Brazilian dating both on this forum and in other places, I'm guessing they don't do too well. It seems like guys who look like Pele and must go to Brazil ought to stick to the Northeast or to darker girls in Rio and elsewhere, unless they make bank.

@- rudebwoy, Everything Athlone McGinnis said is correct. The photos of the guy that Mr.GM posted were in fact mixed race men. Neymar looking Mid-Eastern to me.

@Athlone McGinnis - I agree and I have had the same thoughts for some time now. I think the North or targeted areas would probably yield the best results.

I am assuming we are talking about vacationing black men. I have often wondered what the results would be if a black man went to live in Brazil for like a few months to a year. He hung out in the right places, made the right friends and accumulated the right contacts, he could probably infiltrate the circle of the higher class women or end up banging 8s and 10's (White or Black). Peer approval would be most important. If the guy can demonstrate economic value I guess it wouldn't hurt. Right?

(06-29-2011 09:44 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

The very fact that dark black people exist and pure white people exist in Brazil after hundreds of years of living in the same country tells you everything you need to know. If there was no racism/self-segregation, there would be no distinguishable group, they would've all fucked each other into a mulatto nation. When two racial groups can live side by side in a country for centuries yet still remain racially distinguishable, there are obviously social stigmas or legal segregation at work.

Agreed.

[Mrs. Chocolate]

For ordinary dark skinned guys, if that matters that much to be black... A ordinary guy and his GF.

[speakeasy]

Miss C, how common are pairings like that in BR? I'm just curious.

Btw, your cousin did VERY good! That is like my dream woman right there. He better wife her up quick before I move down there and steal her, lol.

[Diablo]

(06-30-2011 11:58 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Miss C, how common are pairings like that in BR? I'm just curious.

I too am curious to know the same. I would like to think its more common but something tells me its wishful thinking. I'm willing to bet that its not common the further up you go in class. Also the extent to which money will help also be of interest to me...

Either way, I hope Brazil isn't as bad as the DR. No place on earth can be more worse than the DR. Those guys have serious racial issues.