[Beyond Borders]

Caveat: I know Cleanslate has a big emphasis in online game, and for good reason, so nothing here was meant to contradict his experiences. Just sharing my own.

[Bushido]

At a loose end here and slightly hungover, so this is a bit of clusterfuck response to some of the posts.

CleanSlate, great writeup. I can vividly recall El Nido as you described it. Seems like you are now mentally preparing to make the next step. Keep us updated man.

(11-27-2015 04:51 AM)Laner Wrote:  

I have to admit though, my heart kind of sank when you mentioned she has a four year old. It seems you are into this girl, but because she already has a kid, she will never be able to bond with you to the same level as you would want. I only say this now, because I have a new kid and have been able to witness new motherhood.

Also, due to recent experience, the best way to get over being with a woman of "average intelligence" is to give her a kid. Trust me, average intelligence women make the best mothers, and their natural instinct to raise wonderful children more than makes up for their laissez-faire interest in economic migrations.

I thought the same thing to be honest. He can do far better. Do many of the high class Filipinos marry single mothers? I think not. Although it seems to me that CS is currently just enjoying himself and will most likely be pursuing plenty more options once he makes the move to SEA.

The intelligence thing is also an interesting discussion. My last Japanese LTR really came close to making the grade. She was admittedly a bit slow, but a virgin and perhaps the most feminine girl I’ve ever dated (and I have been spoiled in this area!). I look back now and think that she would have made a great mother. Can’t help but occasionally feel a pang of regret that I didn’t stay with her, but such is life.

(11-27-2015 07:20 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

The other night, I banged some girl (after 69ing her friend) while her old man was at the store on a beer run, and then when he came back and started fucking around with her, I stole all their beer and cigarettes and took off. haha And that went down even before I went on to smash those three massage girls I told you about a few hours later...

You banged 5 girls in one night? More details please!

(11-27-2015 07:20 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

2. Having to disappoint so many girls wears on you too. Ironically, I came to the conclusion a long time ago that it makes more sense to have a steady girlfriend in Southeast Asia than to fuck around because it's just "lead overload" and way too distracting to getting anything done (if you live here rather than visiting), and there is a lot of hassle to deal with as the drama stacks itself up. I will drift back that direction inevitably.

This I definitely agree with. I will certainly be looking to do this here in Thailand. When it comes to building yourself up and pursuing success in other areas, you can't really be trolling Tinder 24x7 or trying to shore working girls at 4am. Those are fine for a bit of temporary fun, but it's not sustainable. Having a steady chick that you can chill with is a huge boost. I have already met a couple of girls here that are candidates, but so far no dice.

The big advantage so far of Bangkok is the sheer number of upper middle class to rich girls that you can meet. Like you mentioned, these are the girls who generally make better LTR material.

You certainly have to dig much deeper out in the Phils to find attractive girls with their own money. The issue I had with that in the Philippines was that once I started aiming to find an LTR-type chick, it ironically seemed harder to get one.

Filipinas are a lot of fun, but I just didn’t come across that many that met my minimum standards for an LTR. Most had some critical flaw that put me off. And the truly nice girls seem to require a level of beta game that I'm not prepared to engage in.

Of course, every guy will have different tastes and priorities (especially if coming straight from a toxic western country), but that was my experience after spending a total of around 5 months in the country. Who knows, if I spent another 6 months out there things might have turned out completely differently for me.

All that said, the girls really are fun, easy-going and cheerful. I say all of the above without any bad feeling for them. Each man will have his own opinion on these things. And that's a good thing in a way, or we’d all be killing each other over the same girls.

[Beyond Borders]

I'm out now so I'll offer those details later but the girl I'm hanging with tonight owns five hardware stores (obviously that's an asset handed down by family). Met her out early at night, not online. Little rich girl. Still lives with the fam and she snuck out to be here tonight.

I feel what you're saying, though. I definitely wouldn't LTR this one - way too naughty (she approached me with excuse of asking me to dance with her cousin, which was BS), as rich southeast Asian birds can be. On the other have, do any of you ever get the feeling these young rich birds act like they're crazier than they are because they think Americans want that???

Of course I've already told her she's not my type to knock down some attitude. Lol I haven't hit yet but will do my best. A more cerebral player would have.

[Vacancier Permanent]

BB,
Fantastic post! I and the forum have been missing your very insightful posts man! I'd even suggest you start your very own thread where you post your insights/thoughts on anything you feel like on your journey through this beautiful adventure called Life. Call it BB's Chronicles or something like that.

With your fascinating insights and smoothly flowing prose, it can and would become one of the most popular threads of the forum in no time!

Reading your post, while freezing my ass here in China, I'm really getting the feeling I should hop on a one way ticket to MNL and just post up there and chill out for a minute or two.

The kind of adventures (mainly deep local cultural penetration), you've just written about is exactly what I'm craving and I've been trying, in vain, to attain here in China.

It's not for lack of trying. I live in a very chinese part of town. In almost 3 months of being here, I've seen a grand total of 1 other westerner within a 5 kms radius.

THE biggest cockblocker has been the language. Not speaking Chinese, understanding it or being able to read it, makes you feel not only extremely lonely but most importantly, isolated here like rarely, if ever before. And after a while, it becomes really tiring and beyond frustrating.

And if you add to that the weather, it really puts a damper on things. Literally.

It's been raining non stop for the past 3 weeks and since this week, been quite cold. While it's "only" been around 4-8C, it feels like -15 if not -20! It's a very humid kinda cold!

I really shouldn't complain about the "cold" here after having experienced the bone freezing cold of Hellberta aka Alberta, last winter where I worked routinely outside at below -30C and even a week at -40C during a blizzard!

The month of February, which I'll have off, can't come fast enough! At this time it's a toss up between spending it in Thailand or the Philippines but after reading BB's excellent post, the Phils look like where I should be heading out to. Are you still going to be there BB by then? We have to link up man!

Until then, keep posting more of those excellent insightful posts my man!

[Chaos]

^ Those are things people used to talk about in the Traveler's Lounge. ;D

[GlobalMan]

(11-27-2015 11:22 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

On the other have, do any of you ever get the feeling these young rich birds act like they're crazier than they are because they think Americans want that???

Definitely feel that way. It's like they think what they see on reality shows is how we all live and act, and how people with more money should act, and they try to reproduce that drama thinking it's what we want.

[Beyond Borders]

^ Yeah like I met this bird the other night, same one, she she wouldn't stop cussing. Annoying. Like she thought Americans talked like that or something.

I almost walked out on her; it was that bad. I called her out on it and told her that it was ugly as hell. Now she's slowed that down.

Then I thought she was a super tramp and yet we've been out twice until five and both times she's refused to give up the puss or take it back to the spot. And she's paying the bill, mostly at least. And tomorrow she's dragging me to some Buffett with all her friends. It's all you can drink/eat so I'll go and check it out .

I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm sure she's been split wide and long her share of times. But the more we hang the more I doubt she's anywhere near experienced as she fronts to be. I just think it's hilarious.... reminds me of young girls back home trying to act like they older than they are. And not realizing how dumb they look.

[Onto]

The Stockbroker girl I picked up in a grocery store was very Americanized. Her career was important, and she didn't like how her fiancé wanted her to quit when they got married.

She was sassy, spunky and a lot of fun, but also wouldn't fuck me until I was ready to commit to her so she could dump her fiancé. She was 27 and had only ever been with him (10 years) and was ready to toss him to the curb.

She came over to my condo almost every day during lunch bringing me food and sometimes after work for over 2 weeks. I'd have her on my bed, pulling every trick I could, and she still wouldn't let me bang her until I promised to marry her, "and" she could keep her career.

I probably should've lied and said, "ok, but instead I left for Davao. I saw her wedding pictures a couple months later.

When it comes to sex, relationships, and love they move lightning fast there.

[CleanSlate]

To the guys pointing out that she has a child, you're right. That's why I love this forum, it keeps me grounded.

The thing is, she is light years better than any girl I've met in the US, my ex-wife included. And, as incredible as it sounds, my ex-wife is actually one of the "nicer" girls you'd meet in the US. With all those things my filipina did for me in one week, she did more than any girl I've ever been with in the US - combined.

And you guys are telling me that I can do a lot better?

This makes one thing absolutely clear - I've been living in the West way too long. Give me a full year in SEA and then I should be able to tell which girls are good LTR options apart from the ones that make excellent short term flings. That is the real trick, isn't it?

Being with family over Thanksgiving makes me envious of those married couples. They got married just before things really took a turn for the worse. These pre-Y2K couples seem the happiest. Post-Y2K couples are on more shaky ground, but they'll probably make it, only because we have lots of family in town to keep them together.

I felt like I was the odd one out. A single mid-30s male, eating amongst couples and kids, fighting re-entry blues and jet lag with part of my mind still in the Philippines. I do know that there's about a 0% chance that I'll meet a Western girl who treats me as well as the girl did on my trip, yet I feel a little guilty and a bit ungrateful for deciding to leave it all behind to make my own way.

[Onto]

CleanSlate: There are plenty of women who don't have kids yet, but that doesn't make them good LTR material by default. I think the really attractive ones get pregnant quite early. Seems like all the really hot girls on FC have a kid. How many times have you looked at a profile, got excited only to see she has a kid? The other hotties that don't are probably lying about it.

The negative with her having a kid is she will always rever the needs of her child over yours. That may not feel great since it's not your child, but if the child is young enough, and under 7 is young enough, that child would love you like a Father, and you could love it like your own.

From what I've heard the Pinay's have a duty to place the needs of her family over the foreigner's. So it's all kind of a mute point anyways. She will be pressured to extract what she can from the foreigner for the good of the family. Obviously there are a lot of shades of grey here that will depend on who she is, what her family members are like, and the dynamic of your own marriage.

Coming from the West it's instinctive to say, "Screw that, we don't support the whole family. Only our own nuclear family." Since the West is so wealthy with plentiful opportunity we feel that's a pretty reasonable way to be.

However, in the Philippines, they don't have much wealth or opportunity. All they have is each other for survival. So it's understandable her loyalty will be to her clan that fed and sheltered her in a part of the world that can be very harsh. Personally, I don't want to be an ATM, but I also wouldn't feel bad about using my wealth and resources to help my wife's family. When you do that, it gives her a massive amount of status and face to have brought such a powerful resource into the family. Much more than grinding it out at the local SM mall.

And if she's a good woman she should reward you immeasurably for it. If her family is of good spirit they should be grateful to have such a man as yourself in their lives and their daughter's. That gratitude should show also. There aren't many places in the West were you can have such a large impact on so many lives through simply marrying and caring for a woman's family.

You're fortunate that at 35 you've got time on you side. Be patient with it and keep refining your abilities to spot red flags and evaluate character.

You've got time, just not all the time in the world.

[Beyond Borders]

^ Some great insights there, Onto.

Cleanslate, I would agree there's a good chance you can do better than a single mom. On the other hand, well, you're a grown man and in the end just do what puts a smile on your face, man. I mean, obviously keep one foot buried in common sense, but it's like the trap of always looking for that perfect destination - it doesn't exist and you could look forever if you don't learn to appreciate everywhere you go for what it is.

Am I saying grab onto a single mom and settle down? Of course not. I'm not saying not to either.

I'm just saying that I'm not 100% sure relying only on logic for all decisions in life is a path to the better existence. Slow down a tad, perhaps, and don't move too fast with that girl, especially when you haven't been here long enough to properly assess her, and cover your bases if you ever do decide to take it up a notch with her so that you can bail if things start going sour.

A single mom showering a nice foreign guy with that good loving is most certainly a common honey trap in this part of the world. On the other hand, there's a lot of honey in a honey trap, and I think if you play your cards right it isn't always the worst place to get stuck.

Give it time. Get over here on a more permanent basis. Things definitely look a lot different after you've spent some time living rather than coming through on vacation (as you've seen, you have A LOT of options in this part of the world), and then you'll have a much better perspective to operate from.

I will say that I have dated and lived with single moms multiple times in the past, and it was never the fact that they had a kid that led me to leave. Not in the slightest. It was them individually that made me leave and the kids were awesome - the daughter of this older chick I dated when I was 19 still contacts me to this day, more than 14 years later.

I don't think any of us would jump at the chance to raise another man's kid, but I don't know that just one would be a complete dealbreaker for me either, depending on the other variables involved.

[Beyond Borders]

(11-26-2015 10:37 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

During my time on this forum I have seen responses to the issue regarding women not intellectually curious/stimulating. I even asked about it one time. The consistent reply was you don't seek a woman for that. You seek out other men for those types of discussions. I guess if a woman is hideous she would learn to be smart/intellectual knowing that her path to success was through hard work and competing with men. A pretty girl knows her path is probably through her looks and that is what she maintains.

Of course these are generalizations. Plenty of fat rotting carcasses are also dumb as a bag of hammers.

In my experience, some very hot women that are very sharp ratchet it down and put on an airy front, at least in casual interactions.

I don't mind a smart girl or intellectual conversations with women. In some cases it make for some seriously intense chemistry. But they can be a lot more work too because they tend to be a lot more complicated.

[Laner]

(11-27-2015 06:14 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

To the guys pointing out that she has a child, you're right. That's why I love this forum, it keeps me grounded.

The thing is, she is light years better than any girl I've met in the US, my ex-wife included. And, as incredible as it sounds, my ex-wife is actually one of the "nicer" girls you'd meet in the US. With all those things my filipina did for me in one week, she did more than any girl I've ever been with in the US - combined.

And you guys are telling me that I can do a lot better?

This makes one thing absolutely clear - I've been living in the West way too long. Give me a full year in SEA and then I should be able to tell which girls are good LTR options apart from the ones that make excellent short term flings. That is the real trick, isn't it?

Being with family over Thanksgiving makes me envious of those married couples. They got married just before things really took a turn for the worse. These pre-Y2K couples seem the happiest. Post-Y2K couples are on more shaky ground, but they'll probably make it, only because we have lots of family in town to keep them together.

I felt like I was the odd one out. A single mid-30s male, eating amongst couples and kids, fighting re-entry blues and jet lag with part of my mind still in the Philippines. I do know that there's about a 0% chance that I'll meet a Western girl who treats me as well as the girl did on my trip, yet I feel a little guilty and a bit ungrateful for deciding to leave it all behind to make my own way.

I hear ya man. Its tragic that a woman can do more for a man in one week, than another mans wife would for him in a decade. The world is a very unfair place.

I have had women cry for no reason, telling me through tears of confusion that they never thought they ever deserved to be happy. How is that for sadness. Of course these women are the same ones that will hold your hand in the hospital for hours on end, come over and cook you soup when you are sick, massage your back when you are sore.

Always remember though, that foreign women by no means have a lock on this personality. They only have more to gain by doing it. If we understood how little women actually have to try in order to be caring we would be surprised. It takes much more energy for western women to be the dominatrix's they are then for them to be caring.

And yes, you can do better. You do not want to be raising another mans kids. I know men who are, and its a topic that when it comes up, they visibly get uncomfortable. She will always see the true father in her kid, no matter how long you end up together. Not only looks, but action and personality as well.

You want a family. For this, you need to start at zero and work your way up. Find the woman, then the relationship, then the family. Starting at 2 is not recommended.

[Bushido]

(11-27-2015 06:14 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

And you guys are telling me that I can do a lot better?

This makes one thing absolutely clear - I've been living in the West way too long.

Yes and yes.

I don't want to labour this point too much, but one thing that has become clear to me after living in several Asian countries is that it's not that "Asia is amazing for women". No, the point is rather that the western dating market has become quite bizarre and wildly unbalanced. As such, our expectations are so low that we can be blown out the water by a girl treating us just a little better than we are used to.

What you described is normal stuff for an Asian girl looking for a provider. Sure, it's all good and should be enjoyed. I certainly wouldn't encourage cynicism about everything that people do, but there is a certain dynamic at play here. And it's not unique to Filipinas. Girls from more traditional societies make more effort early on in an attempt to win you over. You have to look beyond the honeymoon period to get a glimpse of what the future with her might look like. Sit back and enjoy the attention she showers upon you, but keep a cool head.

That's why I would not recommend any guy to settle down with a girl that they meet on their first trip to Asia. Not right away anyway. Open your eyes and look around at least.

It's the classic "Don't girlfriend up the first girl you bang" that expats used to joke about in Japan too. Over time, you develop a better awareness of what is normal and expected in that particular country. Assuming you make efforts to integrate somewhat, you will begin to think like a local.

In Japan, it's fairly normal for a "good girl" to bring homemade desserts or bentos, do your laundry, clean your room and cook - not every time they visit your place, but at least sometimes. Westerners coming to Tokyo for the first time might be mistaken that they have met "the one" just because she picked up a broom. Nah. Any local guy would tell you that this is the minimum standard.

And guess who the expats in Japan tend to end up marrying? That's right. The girls who the Japanese guys rejected - not always because of their looks, but for their personalities. As a group, we expect less and that's what we seem to end up getting.

You will notice that successful Asian guys are extremely picky about their marriage partners. This is because they can be. It can be a solid idea to hang out with these guys and befriend them. Their attitude will rub off on you. I have ran by girlfriend material on my Japanese/Chinese friends before and was surprised by their opinions at times. They are judgmental motherfuckers haha. For the record though, the Japanese seemed to be the pickiest of all. In the end of course, you will be making the decision.

So in summary, I recommend living in Asia for at least 1-2 years and see how your perceptions change.

[Beyond Borders]

Girl just dropped a hundred and sixty bones on dinner. I haven't run sugar mama (technically sugar daughter?) game in quite some time but may have to roll with it.

[samsamsam]

(11-28-2015 11:10 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Girl just dropped a hundred and sixty bones on dinner. I haven't run sugar mama (technically sugar daughter?) game in quite some time but may have to roll with it.

Well Christmas is coming up. Good timing!

On a separate note regarding raising another man's kid. Such a bad idea. You will never be able to discipline the kid. Especially, in the U.S. it will be hard for a woman to watch you spank her kid which isn't yours. Then you might get a visit from the big brother.

Massive generalizations coming up. but a single mom is just trying to find resources to take care of her kid. That will always be her number one priority. Next will be her family then you.

[Onto]

(11-28-2015 11:10 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Girl just dropped a hundred and sixty bones on dinner. I haven't run sugar mama (technically sugar daughter?) game in quite some time but may have to roll with it.

Nice! Have you played her "Desperado Soul" yet?

[Beyond Borders]

^ Not yet, but I'm sure I'll get around to it because she plays guitar.

That song works like a charm, by the way, whether I play and sing like shit or not. lol

[CleanSlate]

Onto, BB, Laner, and dreambig, your posts have been amazing in this thread. And if there is a strong consensus on RVF, then one had better listen.

Almost all relationships eventually end anyway, and it will be several months before I come back to the Philippines. It's unlikely we could sustain weekly skype chats that long, so I'll just let this fade over time.

Meanwhile, time to start planning a Thailand scouting trip / bang mission...

[Onto]

(11-28-2015 12:54 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

^ Not yet, but I'm sure I'll get around to it because she plays guitar.

That song works like a charm, by the way, whether I play and sing like shit or not. lol

I'm sure it does, it even gave me tingles. Once she hears it she'll be swooping you off to Boracay.

[Scott Free]

CleanSlate,

That was a very entertaining read! I was laughing my ass off! Add it to your memoirs man!

And seriously, screw Cebu Pacific. Last time I was there in May, they threw some BS reason about why I couldn't get on the flight and forced my buddies and me to rebook, with all the weighty fees. I turned around and decided to stick with PAL. They were a lot more professional, on time and a lot less BS to deal with. I'm sticking with PAL for all my local flights there from now on.

Glad you got to meet BB. It's too bad I couldn't be in town. We'll have to synchronize a trip out there one of these days. I've seen Subic, Palawan, Baguio, Cebu, Camiguin and the next time will be Davao and Siargao. Looking forward to those trips, probably in late 2016.

BTW, thanks for the kudos and the link to my old El Nido thread. (Glad to hear the roads are more paved! It was at about 30-40% when I was there...) And congrats on your Achievement Unlock! Hahaha. HEE-larious.

[King of the Bongo]

I have no problems with paying food, drinks, the places we sleep and cheap transportations like bus, taxi, jeepney rides and so on if we take those together. Paying flights and many expensive touristy tours gives me an uncomfortable feeling like paying for sex in general but the uncomfortable feeling is less strong.

I think it's really hard to travel with a girl from countries like this without paying for every travel expanses of her. Am I right with this?

How are your feelings or rules on paying for the girls? How do you handle it?

The thing is I'm way more interested in more or less deeper relationships with cute and nurturing girls than banging another girl from a club every day...

[Shimmy]

If you want to travel with girls who are going to pay their way the Philippines is not the place to find them. At the end of the day pay if it's worth it for your experience to pay double. If you go to cheap places this should not be a problem.

[CleanSlate]

Thanks for digging up my old thread. Ahh, memories...

In this specific case, paying double for flight, hotel, and food in this trip was cheaper than a three month subscription to Seeking Arrangement... or a single seat on a "cheap" US flight.

This girl in question, regrettably, is not in my life anymore. But I met her after my divorce and she single handedly restored my faith in women, opening my eyes to a wider world beyond the feminazi West.

She treated me a hundred times better in that one week than the entire five years my last American girl did. So I had zero qualms about paying her way for that one week.

We're not together anymore, however.

But right now, I'm with a different girl who is not a single mom, is four years younger, and has actually paid her own way on the two trips we've taken together. It's amazing how your standards go way up after spending more time in a different country than a typical 2-3 week tour.

[Road_Less_Taken]

I have slowly become more and more liberal for paying for girls. I used to be kind of stuck up about it but the more time you spend away from the West the more you realise that almost all local guys will pay for the girls, so you not doing so is a bit cheap. Especially as you earn 5 times what the local guys make.

High-quality girls will have guys inviting them to go on trips all the time. If you want a traditional relationship then you have to bring in the bacon, if not there's always enough feminists to go around in the west.