[WestIndianArchie]

“I wish I had more backbone. We’ve been dating five years, and he seems more willing to walk away, so he has all the power. Whenever I question something he does, he says: ‘Then maybe we shouldn’t be together.’ I can never bring myself to say the same thing to him. So if he does something that bothers me, I think: ‘I can stand it.’ But if I do something that bothers him, he says: ‘I’m not going to tolerate it.’

WIA

[Dalaran1991]

WIA has a habit of plunging us into cycles of depressive introspection.

If the monologue goes like that in her head, in my limited experience she is:

-very emotionally immature
-has daddy/security issues

In short she tolerates abuse, that means a lack of self respect. Then you have to ask, does she tolerate abuse from YOU or from everyone?

Lots of guys think they can completely own a woman's mind, body and soul because they have good game. A lot of the time she is already broken and you just happen to be the first one to plant the flag, but you wont be the last.

She would be wonderful for a LTR, but then again there's the everlasting paradox of game: you would get bored with her easily. I dont know if you banging on the side is already implied in the above scenario, but it would wreck her if she discovers that you cheat, then a shit ton of drama follows.

Bottom line I think (again, based on limited experience) this type of girl is also the type that would slash her writ if you leave hear/cheat on her. Can you live with that?

Also, if you could impose that kind of will on her, it means others can too. If the chick is like that, it says more about her than about you or your relationship.

Then, you also have to think about, what are YOU like, in order for your chick to be like this?

Personally, since I'm not made to be a confirmed bachelor and will settle down one day, I think it would make sense for me to find a girl like this. But this also means I will have to be the sole support for my family, emotionally and financially.

[cascadecombo]

Quote:

“I wish I had more backbone. We’ve been dating five years, and he seems more willing to walk away, so he has all the power. Whenever I question something he does, he says: ‘Then maybe we shouldn’t be together.’ I can never bring myself to say the same thing to him. So if he does something that bothers me, I think: ‘I can stand it.’ But if I do something that bothers him, he says: ‘I’m not going to tolerate it.’

Not enough context for me. Is she the type who gets upset over small things and doesn't like it when the guy thinks gay marriage shouldn't be legal type thing? Where she wants to join the PC cult, but refuses to knowing that the majority associated with that have no backbone and wouldn't be worth the guy she is with?

With that we also don't know about the guy. What is he not wanting to tolerate? What could he be doing where for some reason the girl doesn't want to tolerate?

[WestIndianArchie]

Sorry Dalaran, not what i meant. I actually think this is a good result. The pain you read is largely self inflicted, and in my experience the root cause of the pain is nefarious.

This is from Humans of New York.

The top reply said something about emotional abuse. And it had thousands is likes.

I'm going to assume there's no actual abuse.

As a player, i read this as a guy who is honestly communicating his needs, and is always giving the chick an out.

If a chick wants to stay, these are his terms.
The fact that he's not negotiating his values is a huge plus to me.

Her "unhappiness" might be for sympathetic ears as some women like to be victims. In her own way she may be manipulating the photographer and whoever happens to hear her story.

Or she could be unhappy that her feminine wiles aren't working on this guy like all the other men in her life. She's lost her power, and now she's sad about it.

Having been doing this for a while and watching my female family members go from toddlers to adults, I think a lot of emotion are calculated to get what they want.

It also speaks to the power of game at a core level. The man clearly has an unshakeable world view. She doesn't like it, can't influence it, but stays anyway. It's probably his character and stability that attracted her to him in the first place.

More importantly he has no problem letting her go. ( at least from her pov)

From a guy's pov, what is he supposed to do?

Compromise his standards?
Kick her to the curb out of "kindness"?

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

Baby, you know i love you, but I'm not going to give up what i value for you.

I've come to accept things about you that i don't necessarily agree with, how come you won't do the same for me?

________

I can think of a bunch of these conversations that feminists would label abusive, but any one sane would see as honesty.

There aren't any games per se, just cold rationality and the willingness to walk.

The brute force weapon of attraction, comfort, escalation, etc is attention.

Give it, tailor it, withdraw, deny it.

Of course, you want the chick to be happy, just not at the cost of your own.

Too many would be players sacrifice without being asked, give without getting return, double down on bad moves.

WIA

[Dalaran1991]

Yeah I didn't get the proper context. Was thinking along the line of him constantly forcing her to do things she doesnt want to.

Never took Humans of NY seriously.

Given the context above, I would say it's good, and it's actually necessary for a relationship to last. Girls have this weird thing that they fall in love with their concept of you and not the real you, so they try to change you to fit their image, then dumb you when you change.

Girls need to know when they are with you, they play by the rules or you walk.

That said, if you are in a relationship and she has been largely pleasant, I see no harm in compromising a bit as long as it doesn't hurt you. My girl doesn't eat meat and I'm carnivore, but every once in a while I enjoy getting myself some good seafood and she is more than welcome to come along.

[robreke]

(11-24-2015 07:05 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

“I wish I had more backbone. We’ve been dating five years, and he seems more willing to walk away, so he has all the power. Whenever I question something he does, he says: ‘Then maybe we shouldn’t be together.’ I can never bring myself to say the same thing to him. So if he does something that bothers me, I think: ‘I can stand it.’ But if I do something that bothers him, he says: ‘I’m not going to tolerate it.’

WIA

Yes, I do want my chick to be like this.

The only thing I would change is that nothing I do would bother her. She would tolerate and love everything about me.

[General Stalin]

(11-24-2015 07:05 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

“I wish I had more backbone. We’ve been dating five years, and he seems more willing to walk away, so he has all the power. Whenever I question something he does, he says: ‘Then maybe we shouldn’t be together.’ I can never bring myself to say the same thing to him. So if he does something that bothers me, I think: ‘I can stand it.’ But if I do something that bothers him, he says: ‘I’m not going to tolerate it.’

WIA

When it comes to relationships, I tend to notice women are far more vocal complainers than doters. They always having something to bitch about - same reason why most news and reviews are negative. That drama is what people like to dwell on. It gives an outlet to vent even if the thing they are bitching about isn't specifically what is putting them down, and it also keeps things interesting and emotionally contrasting.

The above remarks sound like nothing more than idle complaining about nothing too heavy or serious, but it paints a picture of a relationships that is working great.

Her man set the frame and holds the line like that stoic rock that she needs him to be. She accepts him for everything he is and molds herself to him because she is attached to him enough to do whatever so he will stay in her life. She tests him and he always passes so she obliges.

EDIT: to answer OP - Leave out the first sentence and thats how I would like my girl to be.

[XXL]

That's the exact situation with my GF. I let her go at least 6 times and she's still with me even though there's nothing special about me, no real status, no wealth, no fame.

The correct answer for a guy is to stay honest to himself and let her know what's up in vague way without stating the obvious.

So.. "this is who i am it's my nature. if you can't deal with it or it hurts you then leave and be happy. i love you i want you to be happy"

[heavy]

Tough to say yes or no to the question based on the premise.

It's good if she knows the her man might walk, but a man who truly has the ability and will to walk won't say it. It's like a 6'8" 320 pound brawler...he's doesn't need to threaten the you for you to know not to fight him.

I suppose every man has the will to walk away if it really gets bad enough (she's attempting murder), but the key is on the margins. The easier it is to replace her, the less threat you have to give and the less threat she'll have to feel. The easier it is for that giant bruiser to beat the shit outta ya, the less you'll even think about fighting him.

So I guess, the simplified answer is no. I don't want her thinking that.

[WestIndianArchie]

@ Heavy appreciate the honesty

[rudebwoy]

Any relationship that is going to last the test of time, has to have that dynamic. She has to know that any day you can walk away and be replaced in a heart beat, this is what keeps them in place. She has to know there is nothing out there better than you or it will be hard for her to replace you. Yes, she may settle for a lesser man but she will always pine for you.

Women use this pyschology on men all the time, most men are just too stupid or afraid to react.

I hear too many stories of men being screwed over in relationships. I am sure we all have friends who are in similar positions, the women rules them.

[Sam Malone]

[Menace]

I agree with heavy on this one. If you have to make such explicit statements it's a problem. This dynamic is how it should be, but it must be implicitly understood as a subtext in the relationship. You can't be giving mini-ultimatums every time she does something you don't like. Arguably, they should have broken up already. A proper relationship has a certain flow, where everything is basically smooth the majority of the time (well for me anyway).

Many women believe a man is abusive whenever he does something that is not in a woman's interest. Even though she is an adult, has full agency, and can leave anytime she wishes.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Quote:

This is from Humans of New York.

[greekgod]

(11-24-2015 07:05 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

“I wish I had more backbone. We’ve been dating five years, and he seems more willing to walk away, so he has all the power. Whenever I question something he does, he says: ‘Then maybe we shouldn’t be together.’ I can never bring myself to say the same thing to him. So if he does something that bothers me, I think: ‘I can stand it.’ But if I do something that bothers him, he says: ‘I’m not going to tolerate it.’

WIA

Delete.

[kaotic]

Yes and no.

Yes, you want to control the frame, and tell her "there's the door if you don't like it"

No, to begin with she shouldn't what seems like constantly questioning your and challenging you.


The reason she hasn't left yet is because she's invested so much into this guy (read: time/mother nature is ticking). She almost expects this guy to have children with her.

She sounds mentally/emotionally weak - maybe even depressed.


At least she's honest and admits he has all the power and frame.

[heavy]

Let me explain further. I have a close friend who's a natural. I've seen him turn down some extremely hot women...a charmer.

He's been with his girl for over a decade, now married in probably one of the most ideal relationships I know of...he's told me...

"If I said to her I'm tired of this shit and I'm out, she'd tell me not to let the door hit me on the ass on the way out."

That was before he was married, so there'd be some obvious entanglements now, but let me emphasize, this guy does whatever he wants. For years our group of friends didn't know he even had a girlfriend, for years many of us had never met her. Not that she's a loser, he just never invited her out, and she had her family and friends and other things going.

I've learned a lot from this guy and what many of my other friends see as a fucked up relationship/marriage I see as very ideal, so I'll say this...

I don't think she thinks she doesn't have enough of a backbone. I know he'd never say "Then maybe we shouldn’t be together". She wouldn't be afraid "to say the same thing to him". He'd never say "I’m not going to tolerate it"...he'd just not tolerate it. She bitches and complains and argues...he just ignores it, sometimes argues, stands his ground...but generally doesn't care what she thinks (about meaningless things).

Not sure if that makes sense. I guess it comes down to ying and yang. I don't think man = ying and woman = yang. There's a little ying-yang in all of us. We all have a little masculine and a little feminine in us, we just have it in different ratios. If she's genuinely afraid you'll actually use the nuclear option, you haven't negotiated the relationship well. If she's genuinely afraid you'll actually use the nuclear option, she'll pull the trigger first.

Granted, I'm a guy who doesn't get into relationships unless the girl has some idea I'm not exclusive to her, which can limit me during pickup. Since divorce, chics just come and go in and out of my life. My 'boyfriend' experience is limited at best. If you have any input on my mentality based on your own experience, I'd love to be enlightened.

[Noir]

(11-24-2015 01:15 PM)Menace Wrote:  

I agree with heavy on this one. If you have to make such explicit statements it's a problem. This dynamic is how it should be, but it must be implicitly understood as a subtext in the relationship. You can't be giving mini-ultimatums every time she does something you don't like. Arguably, they should have broken up already. A proper relationship has a certain flow, where everything is basically smooth the majority of the time (well for me anyway).

I have to respectfully disagree- I am of the opinion that it is in women's nature to naturally try and change you as long as you are with them, for various reasons.

- pride
- genuine disagreement/morality clash
- to push buttons because you 'won the last argument'
- her friends telling stories about what they do to their boyfriends

The list goes on. She can respect and know not to challenge you on certain things but when you 'don't care', hold frame and show her the door (which is natural) you can expect her to still try every now and then. If you are trying to eliminate this behaviour, that is more 'abusive'/'harmful'/-insert shaming language here' than not seeing it for what it is.

I've noticed this in my own relationships, my friends and my grandparents. Funny enough, my grandfather is the biggest G and doesn't take shit at all. Doesn't stop my grandmother from 'trying it' as he puts it, 62 years in to their marriage. He will let her have it every now and then and accept, 'I fucked up' and thus the cycle continues.

In most instances, it will be shit tests, questioning things from first week to 10 months in despite her subliminally knowing that your ways are what attract you to her.

It doesn't come down to 'wanting' your girl to be like this. If your game is tight and you accept women for who they are, this is to be expected. This is why XXL and myself, can so easily just bust out the line.

Sometimes, it's to assert your position and defend your actions, from a positive frame (given she knows your position prior).

Sometimes, it's to call her bluff when she is being a woman, the same little girl since young who always got what she wanted.

Sometimes, you just don't give a fuck because you have 4 other girls hitting you up on the side and willing to step up to your level and audition to be #1.

These are just human dynamics. The person with the most power will be willing to leave first; the person willing to leave first will have the most power.

I just came back from yoga and there was an absolute stunner, 20yo who partnered up with me. We flirted and joked about certain stuff. She works at a bar near my work and I am sure she has seen me before. I completely forgot about my girlfriend for that hour. I check my phone and I quote "I could just smooooooch you right now. Every time we're apart I realise just how much I want to be with you." Followed by "Silly girl" two minutes later.

Yes, she is in love. Yes, I can tell her to walk and she will tear up. I won't say that shit lightly anymore because she doesn't shit test me as much as she used -BUT- she still will and I will still show her the door. It just happens when your game is tight.

Excuse the arrogance but every ho and housewife wants to try and change a guy, especially when they know he is money or is destined for big things.

- entitlement, deserved-ness, fear of loss when you are in the upper echelon
- ability to claim your fame when you make it
- coffee talk with women
- pride (this is severely underestimated)

This is fucked up but if you have power over a woman's self esteem, she will fight wars for you and stay around.

An old Greek saying: "the more you spit on them, the more they stick on your shoe" (thanks Grandpa).

All relationships are trans-actional, zero sum and power based, from a purely rational point of view. The reason the HONY example works is because women are more emotional than men and guys with game know this to leverage it into getting what they want.

Eric Berne wrote a book which is a good jumping point- "Games People Play", I can go in to further details but I am sure it will derail this thread.

Rant over.

[PapayaTapper]

My short answer is no. While I do believe it is important, if not vital. for a girl that's an LTR to understand that I'm willing to "walk" the scenario above smacks of dysfunction rather than a content acceptance of situation....That's what I want in an LTR. This has more to do with her personality than whatever I might be doing which causes her to continually test or seek out drama/conflict. While I've learned never to let a girl get too complacent in our relationship I've also learned to be very selective as to personality type I want to spend time with. I've written about girls having the "happy gene" several times

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(08-24-2015 02:14 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

The one quality I think is essential for any girl to have as a LTR candidate is what I call "the happy gene". Is her natural equilibrium an upbeat / happy /laughs easily kind of demeanor ? Or is she prone to states of moroseness/crabbiness or acerbity that needs to be actively entertained/stimulated into being "happy"?

If a girl doesn't have that "happy gene"...she's not long for my world anymore. If there was only piece of advice I could give a guy thinking about wifeing up,,,make sure she has that quality

However my take away from a couple of my LTR's is that the minute you make a material concession to appease her, or simply avoid the conflict for the sake of peace and quiet, the fuse is lit and it's just a matter of time before this relationship sours.

The trick is knowing when an issue is immaterial but again perhaps for me this question is non sequitur since I'm not ever going to get entangled with "sourpussy" again.

[AneroidOcean]

(08-24-2015 02:14 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

The one quality I think is essential for any girl to have as a LTR candidate is what I call "the happy gene". Is her natural equilibrium an upbeat / happy /laughs easily kind of demeanor ? Or is she prone to states of moroseness/crabbiness or acerbity that needs to be actively entertained/stimulated into being "happy"?

If a girl doesn't have that "happy gene"...she's not long for my world anymore. If there was only piece of advice I could give a guy thinking about wifeing up,,,make sure she has that quality

Had to rep you for this one.



Recently I had a married woman ask me, "so what are the top things you like about your girlfriend" and my response was that I really enjoyed her temperament. She's generally happy and it's straightforward for me to get her to smile, laugh, or generally be satisfied. She's definitely got the happy gene.

[StrikeBack]

Generally I agree with the frame as set in the quote.

However, I do not want my chick to complain about us to Faggots of NY for likes and attention. If I find out she does, she can get the fuck out, for real.

[BassPlayaYo]

Yeah, women that are happy with who they are will not be dreading someone walking away, ditto with a man.

[xpatplayer]

This is why I wish chicks were more like guys. Down to fuck just for the sake of fucking, not because of some emotional reaction to game.

I can't deal with emotion. I'm an unemotional guy who is getting a grip on manipulating emotions. That's a good short-term strategy to get some pussy, but a terrible long-term strategy. People don't react too well when they realize that they're getting played because of emotion. Had a girl break down at a bar because of me recently - because we made out the week before, and I didn't say hi at the bar.

It's scary knowing that people you barely care about are that invested in you. It's even scarier knowing that most of them are nowhere nearly as level-headed as you are.

That's the thing with LTRs - they can only work if you're equally invested in one-another. If not, there's either going to be a messy breakup if she's somewhat emotionally stable. If she's bipolar, borderline or any other kind of emotional vampire, it could end up in a Lorena Bobbit or Jodi Arias situation.

I'm not scared of horror movies or psychological thrillers. I'm terrified of girls getting murderously invested in me.

[monster]

(11-24-2015 07:05 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

“I wish I had more backbone. We’ve been dating five years, and he seems more willing to walk away, so he has all the power. Whenever I question something he does, he says: ‘Then maybe we shouldn’t be together.’ I can never bring myself to say the same thing to him. So if he does something that bothers me, I think: ‘I can stand it.’ But if I do something that bothers him, he says: ‘I’m not going to tolerate it.’

WIA

Man, I saw that post on Humans of New York a week or so ago. I thought it was funny that all the SJW commenters started calling "emotional abuse!!!" "Leave the abusive relationship before you die girl!"


I do like HONY for the photos and the story but I had to recently dislike the Facebook group because the commenters are ridiculous stupid lemmings who are some of the cruelest, most condemning, judgemental people I have ever read on earth on the pretext of wanting equality and respect for all.