[doc holliday]

I'm not a lawyer but I just finished a divorce in the US so here are some of my thoughts. I'm not sure how it works in Australia but I'm not sure why your brother has been living separately for so long without filing for the divorce. It seems as though he has let her dictate the terms of this separation including when he can see his kids. It's a mistake most guys make which is how so many get fucked in a divorce. While I think the system in America is skewed toward the female, you can fight hard and smart to get as good a deal as you can. If I were him, I would never have left my house until the divorce was done. Or at least not until some legally binding temporary arrangement was in place which would have ensured my ability to see my kids.

His idea of representing himself and expecting that the court will see how crazy his wife is, is a fool's errand. Now his wife may indeed be crazy and wildly unreasonable, in which case, yes the court will likely see some of his side. That depends on the judge, how he or she has ruled in previous divorce cases and what laws are in place. He must get a lawyer though, no ifs, ands or buts. The lawyer can help him get a more favorable judge assigned to his case, help him make his soon to be ex look mad and unreasonable in expectations of getting the best deal and also be able to negotiate through the legal system. The family court system in the US is not set up as easy to negotiate through for a lay person. A sharp lawyer will know the laws in and out, will know how to work the judges and will be straight up in telling you what you can and cannot win. What your brother needs to do is interview a few lawyers, find one who can try a case, not just negotiate a settlement, very important, hugely important. After he finds one, then he needs to become a legal scholar and research all of the statutes that will pertain to his case and bounce ideas off of his lawyer so they can together come up with a winning strategy.

His current strategy of hoping the court will take mercy on him and self- representation is a loser strategy and he will end up with a terrible result. His acting reasonably so far will help him, no doubt but not as much as he would like to believe. Acting reasonably up front but then behind the scenes plotting and planning to put her through the ringer is what he needs to do. I showed no mercy on my ex wife. I stayed living with her in my house for nearly all of my divorce of 2 years duration. When she told me she was serving me with divorce papers, I defiantly told her that I would not be moving out. It was my house as much hers so her lawyer couldn't do a damn thing to get me out. I knew the law and my lawyer cosigned my decision to remain in my house. I have close to 50% time with my kids, a payment that while is a lot, is about where I hoped to end up and I got to keep my business. Only by being ruthless and cold blooded did I get a good deal. And having a sharp lawyer.

In fact, if there is no legally binding agreement with your brother and his wife currently, he could most likely move back into his house and she wouldn't be able to do a whole lot about it. Again though he needs a lawyer. Yesterday. Hopefully Merenguero who does divorce law will see this thread and comment.

[Caractacus Potts]

My ex is taking me back to court.

A month ago she took the girls out of town on my proscribed time. The older daughter said that mommy wanted them and would make a deal with me on a separate time. I told her to have the ex call me.

She never did.

Fast forward a week. I get a text from my older daughter 30 min prior to pick up that I don't need to get her that they are in Florida! I texted her that I would be there in 30 min to pick her up and if she wasn't there I was going to report mommy to the court.

Of course I arrive at the house and no one is there. That night when I call it goes to voicemail. My daughter texts me later and I call her immediately. She doesn't pick up. I send a text saying that I know she has the phone in her hand and since she is not answering I am going to assume that her mother forbade her from picking up. (confirmed when she got back.)

When they get back I go to the door and confront the ex. She of course is self righteous and tells me I can't threaten her. The pathetic thing is the affair partner (whom I affectionately refer to as queer bait) is standing inside down the hall yelling at me. Pussy.

She knows she fucked up. She immediately went to the court and asked for an emergency order of protection. I'm threatening, I'm harassing, blah, blah, blah. To her credit, the judge did not grant the order.

My attorney appeared in court and it was continued. I figured her attorney would try to talk some sense into her. After all, she didn't ask me to take the kids out of state, she took them on my time and then did not allow me to speak to them for nearly a week.

Nope. They have doubled down. I should win in court based on the facts alone.

For the last few years friends and family have encouraged me not to dwell on her, that living well is the best revenge, that Karma will catch up, etc.

Now I want them to suffer. I am Scipio and I am going to raze Carthage and plow its fields with salt.

I have some ideas in mind to destroy her business and air her dirty laundry in public. Any suggestions? If you want PM me so that it isn't online for prying eyes.

CP

[Merenguero]

What happened to Hank Moody? The guy had a life which was apparently very similar to mine, made some great posts in a pretty short period of time, then disappeared completely. Around the same time he disappeared, that autistic troll guy, who I'm pretty sure was Libertarian Booty Hunter, inexplicably decided to attack him.

[Captain Gh]

(04-02-2017 03:37 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

What happened to Hank Moody? The guy had a life which was apparently very similar to mine, made some great posts in a pretty short period of time, then disappeared completely. Around the same time he disappeared, that autistic troll guy, who I'm pretty sure was Libertarian Booty Hunter, inexplicably decided to attack him.

Holy Shit I was thinking about the same thing yesterday. Went to see is profile... and noticed he hadn't logged in since November. Hopefully being a lawyer didn't put too much stress on him

[Kona]

(04-02-2017 01:26 PM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  

I have some ideas in mind to destroy her business and air her dirty laundry in public. Any suggestions? If you want PM me so that it isn't online for prying eyes.

What type of business is it? Does it make money?

And why do these type of things always have a connection to the state of Florida?

Aloha!

[Turnus]

Sorry to here your going through that Caractacus. One thing I would encourage you to do is to not engage in ANY verbal confrontation. Everything must be done via writing. Also, your comment about "reporting mommy to court". Don't do that. Don't put your daughter into the middle of it like that.

[Merenguero]

(04-02-2017 03:47 PM)Turnus Wrote:  

Sorry to here your going through that Caractacus. One thing I would encourage you to do is to not engage in ANY verbal confrontation. Everything must be done via writing. Also, your comment about "reporting mommy to court". Don't do that. Don't put your daughter into the middle of it like that.

Everything must be done via writing and be completely limited to your daughter. If you randomly see her in public, get out of there as fast as you can. At times when you have to see her, such as pick up and drop off with your daughter, always have another adult with you whenever possible.

[Caractacus Potts]

(04-02-2017 03:42 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 01:26 PM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  

I have some ideas in mind to destroy her business and air her dirty laundry in public. Any suggestions? If you want PM me so that it isn't online for prying eyes.

What type of business is it? Does it make money?

And why do these type of things always have a connection to the state of Florida?

Aloha!

It is an artsy creative type of business associated with the wedding industry. It makes money.

I supplied the start up capital and covered all of the bills when she got fired from her corporate job. I have never seen a dime from it.

They were in Florida for her birthday.

CP

[Caractacus Potts]

(04-02-2017 03:50 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 03:47 PM)Turnus Wrote:  

Sorry to here your going through that Caractacus. One thing I would encourage you to do is to not engage in ANY verbal confrontation. Everything must be done via writing. Also, your comment about "reporting mommy to court". Don't do that. Don't put your daughter into the middle of it like that.

Everything must be done via writing and be completely limited to your daughter. If you randomly see her in public, get out of there as fast as you can. At times when you have to see her, such as pick up and drop off with your daughter, always have another adult with you whenever possible.

I know. Per the Settlement Agreement I am supposed to pick up curbside. I had not spoken to her face to face in nearly a year.

I probably shouldn't have gotten out of the car but I did. I warned her that she was in violation of the terms of the settlement and that if she pulled a stunt like this again I would take her back to court.

Instead of behaving like an adult she behaved like a petulant child. She ran to hide behind mommy's skirt (judge) and tell her version of the story first because she knew she fucked up and didn't want to get in trouble.

The judge told her she had a week to resubmit her petition and then I have two weeks to respond. The attorney told me he is surprised that her attorney didn't advise her let it go since she is clearly in the wrong.

Either she is still convinced that she is the heroine/victim of the movie in her head or her scumbag lawyer doesn't care about the merits of the case and sees it as a way to make easy money. I think its a combination of the two.

[RatInTheWoods]

A lot of advice or planning would be different depending on which country you are in. We are an international forum.

I am a refugee from the Australian family court rape, I still walk funny. I lost 100%. The courts there are exceptionally biased against males, no surprise.

Also "don't get married" doesn't work - if you live with a woman, you are married after a while in the eyes of the law, and she gets full legal rape rights against you.

You have to MIGTOW or change girlfriends every 6 months and never live with a woman to have a chance of retaining your assets in the wonderful land of Oz.

Its big business, and the stakes are high for the parasitic legal industry there.

I can not see why the fuck matters of the heart and bank should be linked up for anyway. Who fucks who and who has cash are two very different things.

[RatInTheWoods]

(04-02-2017 01:26 PM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  

Now I want them to suffer. I am Scipio and I am going to raze Carthage and plow its fields with salt.

I have some ideas in mind to destroy her business and air her dirty laundry in public. Any suggestions? If you want PM me so that it isn't online for prying eyes.

Mate, I have a suggestion. Don't waste a drop of your precious energy on revenge.

Your friends are right, living well is the best revenge, because its a positive one.

You should be focused on getting the most of your life, not destroying your childrens mother.

You are absolutely right to try and fight (legally and carefully) for the right to see your own kids. But do not threaten, do not confront and do not be stupid. The odds are stacked against you, and she will win if you fight. Accept that you have a very raw deal being a male, and then harden up and do the best you can anyway.

Be the best you, get on with your life and the kids will work out who is the better parent. They are not stupid and know whats going on.

Good luck mate, I feel for you, I was you a long time ago.

[Kona]

(04-02-2017 03:54 PM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 03:42 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 01:26 PM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  

I have some ideas in mind to destroy her business and air her dirty laundry in public. Any suggestions? If you want PM me so that it isn't online for prying eyes.

What type of business is it? Does it make money?

And why do these type of things always have a connection to the state of Florida?

Aloha!

It is an artsy creative type of business associated with the wedding industry. It makes money.

I supplied the start up capital and covered all of the bills when she got fired from her corporate job. I have never seen a dime from it.

They were in Florida for her birthday.

CP

So you own half the business? Does she have to buy you out?

Aloha!

[MongolianAbroad]

(04-02-2017 05:54 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

A lot of advice or planning would be different depending on which country you are in. We are an international forum.

I am a refugee from the Australian family court rape, I still walk funny. I lost 100%. The courts there are exceptionally biased against males, no surprise.

Also "don't get married" doesn't work - if you live with a woman, you are married after a while in the eyes of the law, and she gets full legal rape rights against you.

You have to MIGTOW or change girlfriends every 6 months and never live with a woman to have a chance of retaining your assets in the wonderful land of Oz.

Why move in with her?

Why have her move in with you?

Why not just have her sleep over sometimes and vice versa?

I'm 34 and while I've slept over at girls' places and many have slept over at mine, I've never had one move in, even with relationships as long as 3 years. I didn't really see any upside that I wasn't already getting by them coming over whenever I wanted them to.

Plus, having plenty of space in bed can be nice too.

[MongolianAbroad]

(04-02-2017 01:26 PM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  

For the last few years friends and family have encouraged me not to dwell on her, that living well is the best revenge, that Karma will catch up, etc.

Now I want them to suffer. I am Scipio and I am going to raze Carthage and plow its fields with salt.

I have some ideas in mind to destroy her business and air her dirty laundry in public. Any suggestions? If you want PM me so that it isn't online for prying eyes.

CP

You're in a really bad mental state, man.

It's over.

Move on, you're only hurting yourself.

When I read your posts I imagine someone trying to get attention from someone else by stabbing themselves, which is what you're doing by carrying so much hate around.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but...

Let it go.

[Vaun]

CP - I realize you are pretty upset right now. When I think about the time I have left to deal with my ex, its always that juicy light at the end of the tunnel that keeps me from hanging on to the resentment and anger at how she treated and treats me now. 8 years.. thats all I have left. And I am counting down each day at a time. The only thing that matters now is the time I have with my children. Thats all I care about or look forward to, and paying my child support. I care less and less each day about my ex, the actions she takes, the minor slights and inconveniences from having to deal with her, her lame ass new boyfriend, her political indoctrination of my children, etc. When I get angry I just think, 8 years.. tick tock its almost over.

Unless this business is in your name, or you are on the hook legally/financially, I would let it go man. She will sink herself. Run this by your lawyer first. Let your ego go man, you can redirect that energy into something more rewarding and fulfilling, like raising your kids, or whatever else it is you want to do; game, sports, business, money, travel, whatever.

[Caractacus Potts]

Thanks for the replies. I'm venting. I am in a much better headspace than I was even a year ago.

I made my last payment to my former lawyers a few months ago ($140,000!!) and now this. I finally had a little money set aside and now I have to hand it over to new attorneys as a retainer. Since her attorney is a dick he will try to drag this out as long as possible to pad the bill.

Like I said above, everyone has urged me to let it go and move on with my life. That sounds all well and good but at what point do we as men draw a line in the sand and say no more!? I'm tired of turning the other cheek and catching a right cross.

The most fucked up part? I actually was letting it go. I wasn't thinking about it every moment of every day. I would laugh to myself and think about the 19 year I had as a plate for a year. Or the Venezuelan stunner I had in Panama who still Whatsapps me. My life is getting better. Hers will only get worse.

Then she pulled this stunt.

She got everything that she wanted in the divorce.

Because of her lies I am not allowed to see my youngest daughter and have limited time with my older daughter. Now she wants to fuck with that.

Much of it is the lawyer. I swear family law snakes must go to a special class on how to write motions and petitions using the most salacious and rage inducing adjectives imaginable! lol

There were some things I could have done to her during the divorce that would have gotten her in a lot of hot water. I have a family member who is a retired IRS special investigator and she had a lot of dodgy tax write offs. Also, I could have provided some pretty damning evidence to her parents and grandmother of what type of person she has become.

But I ran out of money...and to protect my sanity and not spend another 2-3 years in and out of the courts enriching the lawyers I let it go. Until now.

Her lawyer has thrown everything against the wall in the hopes that something will stick. He is using examples from three years ago while the divorce was still ongoing. He contradicts himself in other places.

For example the Settlement Agreement states that messages are not to be passed back and forth through the kids. Then in his petition he states I knew about the trip to Florida because the ex told my daughter.

They state that my daughter needs counseling and I have not been cooperative and hence I should have all contact reduced to supervised visitation or revoked completely! Fuck You!!!!

The idiot is too dense to look at his own exhibits. In one of the email chains he submitted to the court on a different topic there is a response from me talking about the program I enrolled our older daughter in and when it meets. Want to guess how many times the bitch showed up?

He is doing all of this in the hopes that I will lose my temper and will thusly look bad to the judge.

Something I want to know is if he is presenting motions and petitions to the court that he knows are inaccurate what recourse do I have? He is outright lying in some. He argues that since it was her birthday weekend (it wasn't) that per the Settlement Agreement that trumps my appointed time.

False.

The SA specifically states that the other parent has to have the kids back by 8:00pm. This mother fucker is the one who wrote the SA!!!
He's trying to slide things past the goal and needs to be called out in court for his duplicity.

Now, back to my original question: best way to extract revenge.

Many of the ways are beta and butt hurt so I am going to forego them. People don't care about cheating spouses anymore. There is no stigma attached and I would come out looking like the bad guy. You know how women are...they'd then justify her cheating because obviously I am such an asshole.

Some of the ideas are to send her this as a belated birthday present:
https://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Cat-Lady-Ac...ion+figure

I have a sexy pic of her from around 15 years ago. I may send it in an email to fagbait and ask him how he is enjoying my leftovers. I will include a pic I took of her at school one day looking tired, haggard and old. I'll be sure to cc her on the email. lol

The other idea is to get a smoking hot girl to accompany me to the Spring Recital at the school. Not sure about this one. If my daughter is not with me that night I will do it. If she is I will forego it.

Anybody else have any other ideas?

[Cattle Rustler]

Stupid "revenge porn" laws might get you in hot water. Did you take the pic or did you find it? If you took it, then you have merit since it's YOUR picture, not hers.

[Merenguero]

(04-02-2017 09:26 PM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  

I swear family law snakes must go to a special class on how to write motions and petitions using the most salacious and rage inducing adjectives imaginable! lol

If it's any consolation, a lot of family law lawyers who do that stuff end up getting theirs eventually. The three ways to greatly reduce the risk of ethics problems are to answer the phone/immediately return phone calls, show up on time, and never make people feel like they're being ripped off. Many family law lawyers, and lawyers in general, tend to forget the third part of that.

[CleanSlate]

CP I don't have any clever revenge ideas, but sending a sexy pic of your ex to her new guy gloating about your leftovers? Dude. Scratch that, man. It's just vengeful and there's nothing you'll gain from it. It's all ego driven.

I like the idea of showing up at a recital with a hot girl, but only if your daughter isn't with you.

[Ranch Hand]

CP, Just keep best relations possible with your kids. Whoever fucked up how much is not as pertinent to them as much as how you treat them now and thru the split. When they come to you for the good/important life advice, you will know you did the right thing.

Regarding the business, aren't you entitled to half value (community property state?). It may be too late as there is an SA already, maybe I'm missing something.

You did well not bailing out during the divorce. That must have been hell, but you have relation with your kids. Very well done.

Revenge is best served cold. Hang in there.

[Turnus]

This whole idea of you getting revenge on her, you also need to drop. She's occupying space in your head and she's "winning" because of that. Stop focusing on her and focus on yourself.

[doc holliday]

Potts look you have a strong case here as she clearly violated the agreement. She's in trouble here and she's trying to deflect blame and make it out to be your fault. As everyone else here has said, you need to calm the fuck down and work dispassionately and ruthlessly towards hammering her hard in court over this issue. You want revenge? Use the court to your advantage and force her have to make retribution for this absolutely unacceptable action. I don't see anyway she can win anything here and my guess is that they are using the strategy of getting you all discombobulated that worked so well for them during the divorce to try and get out of this mess.

Read what Turnus said, over and over because this is what you need to do. You'll win this fight, easily in my mind. In fact, I would have your attorney petition for her to pay your legal bill since she is the one who is in complete violation here. You must however calm down and think with clarity. If you do so, you will win and teach her a lesson not to fuck with you ever again. As I've stated and told you in person man, I was ruthless with my ex wife. Dispassionate, calm and not giving two fucks about destroying her psychologically. I got just about everything I wanted in my divorce and guess what? Now my ex and I get along great and she would never even think of ever doing this shit to me. Right there, would be your revenge. If you calm yourself and kill her in court.

[roberto]

(04-02-2017 09:56 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

CP I don't have any clever revenge ideas, but sending a sexy pic of your ex to her new guy gloating about your leftovers? Dude. Scratch that, man. It's just vengeful and there's nothing you'll gain from it. It's all ego driven.

Aside from that, it could go horribly wrong...

"How you enjoying the secondhand pussy, looser?"

"It's great mate! After the first three inches it's like brand new!"

You need to calm down and think with your logical brain, not your angry brain. Certain types of women know just how to rile a man so he can't think straight. I sympathise with you, but take a step back. Breathe.

[Sam Malone]

General Rule Of Thumb post Divorce:

Every move you make should have the kid(s) best interests in mind.

Any sort of 'revenge porn' doesn't help the kids one bit.

And the reason for any decision you make, WITH THE KIDS BEST INTERESTS IN MIND, is easily arguable in a courtroom.

That said, if it pisses off the ex, it's a bonus.

But don't make any decision based solely on pushing your ex's buttons. That's a recipe for disaster.

[RunsWithScissors]

Caractacus Potts, your situation sounds way worse than mine (round 2) was, I at least had good ethical lawyers on both sides and the court system treated me fairly, we settled with me getting the 50% time I'd been wanting all along. If she's violating the order it sounds like things should go in your favor. I encourage you to let go of any revenge ideas and be on your best behavior at least until this current round of court activity is over. At least in my area the courts want to see that the parents are putting the kids best interests first, if you're caught doing petty revenge shit it could very well reflect extremely poorly on you. The revenge stuff eats you up inside man, I still deal it every now and then but it's easier with time and distance.

Feel free to PM if you need someone to vent to directly.