[Cool Runnings]

Whats up members of the fourm, as you can see from the subject line I am wondering which of these 2 cities have a higher cost of living. Things like rent, transportation, food, going out etc..

I plan to live a fairly modest lifestyle while I am over there. Maybe go out once or twice a week, Pay no more than $400 USD for rent, eat the local food, either rent a motorbike (does any one know how much this would cost in both cities?) or use the cheapest form of transportation.

The reason I am asking this is that I have been offered a job to teach English in both of these cities and I don't know which one to pick. I have visited both cities before but I don't really know the true cost of living since I never actually lived in these cities. I will list some details below about the jobs

Pay: Both positions will pay around $800 - $850 USD per month
Duration: 4 Months
Accommodation: Not included

Any information you guys wish to share will be helpful. Thanks

[GlobalMan]

Bangkok, but it all depends on what standard of living you will want. You can pay $150/month in Bangkok for an apt with cockroaches all over, or 4k. There is much more selection in Bangkok. Food etc can all be whatever price you're willing to pay. 25 cents for a meat stick on the street, or fine dining for $100

You can live in either at any price you want, I would choose based on what interests you. I wouldn't live in Phnom Penh long term. Much better options for entertainment, drinking, and ladies in Bangkok.

You can do fine on $850 per month in Bangkok living how you described. You can find a decent, clean, no frills apt starting at $350/month or so. Food can be as little as a few dollars per day if you want. I would skip the motorbike.

[WanderingSoul]

Food can't be as low as a few dollars per day in BKK, unless you want to look like a malnourished African. Don't go there thinking you are going to live on $3 per day for food. Try $10.

$850 per month in BKK will not be fun. That's a bullshit offer. $1,000 is usually the minimum for English jobs in BKK. $1,200 is what most English teachers sill make, and that's ok to live on, but still not great. If you live like you say and don't drink much it'll be fine.

[GlobalMan]

Agree with RioNomad that it wouldn't be ideal, my point was just that it's "do-able" as long as you recognize what standard you'll have to live. By "a few dollars" I'm meaning under $10, I should have been more specific. If you're a jacked guy then you'll need to eat more obviously. I ate 100% on the street, I could get by on $6-$7 per day for food just fine.

And yes, you should be getting paid more, especially if this is some sort of company that recruited you from overseas.

[Beyond Borders]

I have a completely different idea of what you can do BKK for than what I see other guys saying online. I just spent a few weeks there recently after several years in Cambodia, and I found hotel/apartments with pools that were damn decent for as little as 6000 Baht a month in Bangkok. They weren't on the BTS but they were very close to MRT. I think you would really struggle to find that in Phnom Penh, though a lot of other things in PP are cheaper (food, for one).

In the end, I'd say either is doable on this wage but will take some clever living, self-discipline, and a spirit of adventure for a Westerner - especially one who has just arrived.

All that being said, plenty new Westerners do live on that there. Not every one comes with the same living standards we have here on the forum.

But perhaps more importantly, I think asking which place is better at $850 a month is a case of asking the wrong question. Yes, it's doable,especially if you start reading stuff like this and change some of your paradigms. I'm all for living cheap assuming you have a reason for doing so.

But even then, there's just no reason to accept a low salary like that when there are plenty of jobs out there that will pay more and still allow you to live in these locations. You can still live on less even, and then save money to invest or build a biz, making it more worthwhile to have that cut in pay. You could also look at it as a way to get one foot into the region while you look for something else.

At this stage of the game, the better questions you should be asking are:

"Where do I WANT to be?"

and...

"How can I get a position that pays more?"

[samsamsam]

BB has a good point. His approach is a much more what I want out of life, expansive sort of thinking.

The other is more here is what is being dictated to me.

Don't forget, I imagine you are not teaching 10 hours a day right? Any side hustles?

[dies irae]

Here is the Numbeo comparison for the two cities:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/com...rrency=USD

[Beyond Borders]

^ That's not entirely accurate. "Inexpensive restaurant" in Phnom Penh is more like $1 or $2. Mid-range would be $3. You could eat for $0.50 if you wanted to, and then they skipped the whole range of restaurants at $5 per person range.

There are quite a few more than three levels of eatery to look at in a place like this.

Then there's this. An inexpensive meal in America is set by this same site at $11. But that ignores all the meal you can have for a few bucks in the states. And comparing the two ignores that if you live in the states you're probably not going to expect the luxury of eating out every single meal like many do in Southeast Asia.

These cost of living things are generally based on Western paradigms and very narrow spectrum of experience. You can trust them somewhat but they're not 100% reliable - and definitely not 100% applicable to every situation and lifestyle.

Here's another example. Did you notice they are claiming average apartment rent outside the Phnom Penh center is almost as much as the average after-tax salary? That right there suggests something is off. We are talking about cities with millions of people, the majority of which live in poverty and swiftly growing middle classes. With many of the population paying from $15 - $50 a month for a place.

Of course, you're never going to stay in a place like that (lowest I've gone is $60 in SEA), but with that being the "starting point," it's only natural there's a very very broad range of extremely livable places all the way up the spectrum.

I think many people move to these places with a subconscious attitude that they're somehow above the rest of the population and therefore deserve to have the best of the best (i.e. top location in the city) in the area, even if they would never demand such a thing if evaluating a city back home. Then they wonder why they struggle to make local friends - with that mindset, is it any wonder?

Yes, have standards for yourself, but also keep in mind that just because something is "local" does not make it inferior. Not to mention the hoardes of locals with growing discretionary income who I assure you are not paying what foreigners pay while still getting great comfort for the dollar (hint: find out where the live). There is bargain living in any of these regions without sacrificing standards if a guy is willing to question his comfort zone.

[GlobalMan]

(08-15-2015 02:31 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

These cost of living things are generally based on Western paradigms and very narrow spectrum of experience.

This is exactly the issue with most cost of living guides- they are trying to give a like-for-like comparison, which is really useless unless you're an executive at a multinational and want to reproduce what you have at home. It's the reason places like Tokyo always are near the top of those charts, they are accounting for an apt the size of what we have in the U.S., with the same amenities, when 90% Japanese don't live like that. In reality it can be surprisingly affordable, if you live like the Japanese.

In another thread someone said they couldn't see living in Bangkok for less than US$2500/month. To me that was madness, in my head I was thinking "what is the extra grand/$1500 for"?

For me, the reason I have lived in Bangkok and similar places is to have decent standard of living at a lower cost than the West. If a guy is going to spend $7, $10 a per cocktail and have a rent of US$1200 living in Bangkok then what's the point, thats the same price as the West.

[Beyond Borders]

^ Yeah, I mean, if you can afford to live the high life here and get the $7 - $10 a cocktail, go ahead and do it I say. I have and those places can be fun to hang in. One of the biggest attractions to the region, in my opinion, is not "cheap living," per se, but the luxury living you can get at a very decent rate comparably.

But even if you're okay with paying a lot, how many other foreign faces live in your building may be indicative of whether you're getting a fair deal or not (though often they charge different tenants different rents, but it's at least a start). Same with the nice restaurants you go to.

That said, the OP is obviously not here for luxury living, so it helps to take a closer look and a more apples to apples comparison, and it helps to keep mind that people on a budget use their brain to make things work within their own limits.

My advice about salary still stands, of course.

[Afarang]

Do you have any savings? Bangkok is the better city but you won't get far with $850 unless you know the city super well. If you have savings then I would advise to go to Bangkok, more things to do, see and it will be more enjoyable.

If you don't have savings than I would follow BB's comments and find something better.

[GlobalMan]

(08-15-2015 03:00 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

But even if you're okay with paying a lot, how many other foreign faces live in your building may be indicative of whether you're getting a fair deal or not (though often they charge different tenants different rents, but it's at least a start). Same with the nice restaurants you go to.

That's the truth. Not one white person in any of the places I lived in Bangkok, which is probably why I feel some of the low budgets mentioned here are perfectly adequate.

Some guys here on the forum only stay in serviced apartments in the farang heavy districts, those guys are correct about needing $2500+.

Others, like myself, live mostly like local when it comes to housing and food. It was the same for me in Bogota, Buenos Aires and everywhere else I've lived. I can spend plenty more, but I don't. I'd rather build up my early retirement stash.

[Beyond Borders]

It blows my mind sometimes how much people manage to separate themselves from the local lifestyle sometimes. I almost think it must take a certain amount of effort.

Example. The other day a friend was visiting me here in the North. He's lived in Bangkok for years and is actually half-Thai but grew up in a Western country. Speaks Thai well now. Teaches English here.

We're in a mall and walk into the food court, and it seriously blew his mind that there was a live band playing and people sitting around drinking beer. Blew his mind that they'd have what was almost a bar scene in a public mall.

I honestly don't get it... I can't even guess how many times I've sat around in Big C or similar places around the country drinking beer towers with beautiful girls in their beer dresses keeping the glass full (all Thai clientele). It blows MY mind that someone who has lived here so long has honestly managed to avoid coming across this type of scene.

Now I'm staying with a friend who lives about 20 minutes away from the very outer limits Chiang Mai, which is essentially a suburb with no separation from the city the way it's laid out. Chiang Mai seems to stretch out forever if you get on a bike and explore (it's just full of greenspace and country roads but the domesticated area goes on and on). Here's the point though. Guy says there are no places to eat where he lives so we have to spend a bunch of time on the way out of the city trying to find a place before we come.

I've been here a few days now and surprise, surprise - there are probably about 10 restaurants on the small road out to his house alone. Very local spots. He hasn't eaten at any of them. The main road is literally riddled with restaurants. Every time we go out to eat, he mentions that he doesn't think anything is open at this hour (whether it's morning or night) and that there's really not any restaurants around.

Translation: There's no places that serve primarily Westerners around.

It's getting to the point where I just have him follow me and I go find a place. The food we've been eating is some of the better food I've had in Thailand - just as many Thais will tell you about the region.

It has become clearer and clearer to me lately that the greater portion of people living overseas aren't there to actually experience the local culture at all. They tell you local clubs are boring or that they can't speak the language. Or that they can't order from menus that don't have English. As if there won't be a learning curve to walking into a completely alien society and learning the ropes from the bottom up.

One of the interesting, and often unfortunate, things about world travel being so accessible to the masses is that it now means people who would normally never leave home are able to survive and thrive abroad without stepping too far beyond their comfort zone.

[GlobalMan]

Really strikes a cord with me and takes me back. I'm so grateful to have had the experiences in Thailand that I did. A girl would lead me through a maze of shacks, over creaking wooden bridges down tiny side streets and we'd pop up in front of a tiny karaoke bar. Inside I'd have the nights of my life drinking with people that have never been around farangs. I was fortunate to be shown these things from basically day one, then find others on my own. If you're not getting at least a little bit lost, you'll never find anything.

Living removed from the skytrain meant I chose walk a lot, which led me to discover things I never would have otherwise. My favorite breakfast spot was under the expressway, never got ill, was delicious. I had very few meals where I wasn't sitting on a tiny plastic stool, meters from traffic.

Quote:

One of the interesting, and often unfortunate, things about world travel being so accessible to the masses is that it now means people who would normally never leave home are able to survive and thrive abroad without stepping too far beyond their comfort zone.

So true, and unfortunate.

[GlobalMan]

All of this BKK talk has my gears turnin' about the place again. I wouldn't mind living there again. Nostalgia is a strong emotion.

[Cool Runnings]

@beyondborders - 6000 baht (170 USD) per month for a decent apartment/hotel with a pool is a steal. Normally would these places come furnished with A/C, Wi-Fi etc..?

@samsamsam - I'll be working 8 hours a day. 8am - 4pm

@afarang - I do have money saved up and I am willing to spend it as well if need be.

Thanks for the input everybody, allot of good insight and information which I appreciate you guys for sharing. You guys are right about the offered salary, much too low for someone with my qualifications (Double Bachelors Degree and a TEFL certification). I'll look around and see if I can find a better paying teaching position in Bangkok. It seems the popular consensus is that Bangkok is the better option to live in for 4 months compared to Phnom Penh.

[Beyond Borders]

(08-15-2015 04:28 AM)Cool Runnings Wrote:  

@beyondborders - 6000 baht (170 USD) per month for a decent apartment/hotel with a pool is a steal. Normally would these places come furnished with A/C, Wi-Fi etc..?

All of the above in that particular one. You may or may not pay extra for wifi in a place like that and will be charged for electricity. No kitchen.

I was in Ratchada. That area may not be convenient for you, depending on where you're staying, and you'll surely have to look around no matter where you are to find a pool at that price. You're right that it's a great deal. But the point is there are still great deals out there.

Do some serious hoofing or motorbiking around the backstreets in areas not known for foreigners and just pop into random buildings to ask. Don't ask the hotel staff - they'll point you straight to the pricy foreign-populated buildings.

[Marcelus]

What's up guys!

This is Alex, 25 and currently in the Philippines. I've been travelling for the past 5 months around SEA.
I come from Barcelona. I've been seriously picking up girls since about 3 years ago. My numbers are 60 something. In the last 5 months I notched 12 without really being this the main purpose of my trip. SEA is so awesome!

I am looking for a mate to hang around here in the Phillies. Currently in Palawan but will be in Manila in 2 weeks.

If you are also travelling in here send me a private message and we get to know each other.

[LeightonBlackstock]

Never take an ESL job that hires 'out-of-country'

There's a reason they can't hire one of the million farangs here, and that reason is probably the shitty pay they're offering

Land in Bangkok. Go to Silom. Walk into every language shool there. Post your CV up on ajarn, only listen to the good ones

Plenty of decent schools here that will offer you double that, assuming you're not morbidly obese and don't look like crap.

And yes, I agree with BB. Opposite my condo is a nice high-rise place.for 6,000 baht a month. Was built two years ago. No pool, but great for the price and only five minutes from the BTS.

[Cool Runnings]

Can anyone tell me how you are able to Quote someones text. I've been trying to figure that out

[Kamaki4]

What are the apartments like in Phnom Penh compared to BK and or CM/Phuket? Focusing on an apartment with a kitchen, or even a house. I am in the running for a position there and if I do get the job I will definitely go to PP for a few days to check it out before I accept.

[GlobalMan]

(04-18-2016 11:43 PM)Kamaki4 Wrote:  

What are the apartments like in Phnom Penh compared to BK and or CM/Phuket? I am focused on an apartment with a kitchen, or even a house. I am in the running for a position there and if I do get the job I will definitely go there for a few days before I accept.

As was said above, there is every level of quality/amenities, from the very basic to high rollin', and everything in between.

You'll have to decide your budget and then check out what you can get for that once you're on the ground.

What are you looking to spend?

[Kamaki4]

Is that the case in Phnom Penh, does it have as wide a range with a lot of availability like CM and BK. CM is full of mid and upper mid range apts at very reasonable prices if you stay away from Nimman and the Old City.

The organization will cover 40% up to $6K/yr of the rent if I move there. That said, my price range is the local price for an apt/house with a kitchen; a studio is fine, but since my wife will probably relocate as well, a 20 or 25 m/2 box will probably be too small. Right now I pay 7K baht for a 45 m/2 extremely well built and very modern apt with Kitchen and maid service once a week in CM. Will not be surprised if it's more in PP and that is ok, just curious because I have never been to PP, only Siem Reap. I definitely don't fit into the 'fat expat' paradigm and other than 6 months in Thonglor never stay in expat heavy areas.

[CodyB]

Firstly, Cambodia's whole local consumer economy is fucked. Expect to pay more money for Food and Bottled Water than in Bangkok. It's an absolute headfuck considering the average Cambodian makes about 20% of the average Thai.

Secondly, rent. In Bangkok, you can get a basic room for 3,500THB per month in most areas and down to 2,000 in the fringes. They aren't pretty, with a bed tv and a shower but may do the trick for you.

Thirdly, you may have more oppurtunities in Bangkok to do private tutoring or perhaps find better paying work (definitely on the sly) once you're established. However, I am not extremely familiar with PP.

Fourthly, $850 is skint anywhere on this planet mate. Hope you supplement yourself with savings because on that budget you're living much like a lower class thai lives. Yes people make as little as 10K baht, but there a lot of unseen benefits such as accomodation, free food etc. as the job market in Bangkok is extremely competitive.

Oh, and I hope you have a lot of polyester beige/khaki shirts. That seems to be the uniform for most English teachers in BKK.

[Kamaki4]

I'm bumping this thread ; hopefully someone has relevant info on Phnom Penh.