[Fortis]

I see your point but isn't excessive showboating demonstrative of a lack of skill?

[samsamsam]

(08-19-2015 02:28 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

The first one speaks for itself.

The second one is one of the worst ways you can defend against a boxer.

What is the best way? Just curious. I worked a couple of sessions to avoid takedowns. Not that it made me good at it. Since boxing is my passion, the last thing I want to be is taken to the ground.

[Sigma]

I come from a wrestling background and in my younger days when I was scrapping in parking lots us wrestlers had a great time taking on boxing/kickboxing guys because they were like turtles on their back once it got to the ground. Not dissing boxers/kick boxers but just giving my experience. Anyway Sam, I think your best bet would be to practice sprawls like mad. In the UFC, back when Chuck Liddel (striker) and Tito Ortiz (wrestler) were beefing, Chuck Liddel lost because he got taken down, ground and pounded but their rematches after Chuck Liddel came back with a really strong sprawl game and after he neutralized Ortiz's take downs he pretty much beat him to a pulp.

After Lidells first loss I think he just drilled sprawls like crazy and it fucked up Ortiz's game plan. Obviously I'm not saying that learning the sprawl would be the catch all to beat the shit out of all wrestlers but I think it's a worthwhile weapon to add to your arsenal. It's a pretty easy move that you would definitely benefit from Sam. Try it out and let me know what you think.

[samsamsam]

That's why I worked on my sprawling. Scrapes to prove it

What I did notice if the takedown is missed, I can see a grappler/wrestler getting hit pretty hard. By biggest learning along with sprawling, is don't give them a leg. Give them a leg and boy you are fucked.

[Natural Born Gyalist]

(08-19-2015 10:12 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

I see your point but isn't excessive showboating demonstrative of a lack of skill?

Not at all, it has nothing to do with skill, in fact only skillful fighters do it. It has to do with the inability to subjugate ones own ego.

[lowbudgetballer]

(08-03-2015 03:21 AM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

Question here: why would you do Judo if you can do Jujutsu? From what I understand Jujutsu has the best grappling stuff of Judo (Judo comes from Jujutsu) while still incorporate tons of useful stuff like kick, punch, joint manipulation. That should be a much better combination.

Oldstyle judo--i.e. 70s judo--remained closer it its jujutsu roots and contained and regularly trained striking, grappling, and groundwork and featured randori (essentially live wrestling). Sports schools threw this out and tend to focus on winning competition based on the current, usually Olympic, rules. That's why Rousey armlocks so fast. Brazilian Jujutsu focuses on groundwork and features randori, but lacks striking and throws. Traditional Jujutsu features all three ranges but lacks randori.

You don't usually find non-BJJ jujustu schools, but the closest thing is aikido. Good aikido schools feature randori and require judo and even karate certification to reach higher levels. Aikido wasn't even intended to be practiced until you have ten years in karate, judo, or both.

'baller

[blck]

(08-19-2015 09:43 AM)Natural Born Gyalist Wrote:  

So because a guy got knocked out showboating he is an unskilled fighter? I have been training in boxing and martial arts since I was eight years old. That's almost four decades of fight training and knowledge. I have taught many amateur fighters and a few pros. I have been in more street fights than most people here have notch counts. I don't need to argue with a stranger online about who is and who isn't legit. I am sure you could beat both these guys up at the same time since you think they are both poor fighters. Real recognizes real. I can't convince someone who is and isn't a skilled fighter. We just know when we see someone else who understands.

[Rush87]

Anderson Silva and Michael Page both have bases heavy in Taekwondo.

The reality is that virtually every single martial art will add strings to your bow.

If I was to recommend the best bang for your buck in terms of overall combat proficiency I would go with Wrestling, Kickboxing/Muay Thai/Boxing [Take your pick] and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

These three basic forms of grappling and stand-up have been the staples for a majority of Champions in elite level MMA.

Wrestling is potentially the most dominant Martial Art you can have [Of course I expect many to claim that it isn't a martial art]. Regardless, as a solitary base wrestling can put anyone into an immediate dominant position.

Combined with one stand-up method and BJJ you really can't go wrong.

[Rush87]

(08-26-2015 01:17 PM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  

(08-03-2015 03:21 AM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

Question here: why would you do Judo if you can do Jujutsu? From what I understand Jujutsu has the best grappling stuff of Judo (Judo comes from Jujutsu) while still incorporate tons of useful stuff like kick, punch, joint manipulation. That should be a much better combination.

Oldstyle judo--i.e. 70s judo--remained closer it its jujutsu roots and contained and regularly trained striking, grappling, and groundwork and featured randori (essentially live wrestling). Sports schools threw this out and tend to focus on winning competition based on the current, usually Olympic, rules. That's why Rousey armlocks so fast. Brazilian Jujutsu focuses on groundwork and features randori, but lacks striking and throws. Traditional Jujutsu features all three ranges but lacks randori.

You don't usually find non-BJJ jujustu schools, but the closest thing is aikido. Good aikido schools feature randori and require judo and even karate certification to reach higher levels. Aikido wasn't even intended to be practiced until you have ten years in karate, judo, or both.

'baller

Judo is a great skill to have BUT… A big reason that Rousey arm locks so fast however is her level of competition. MMA has had the likes of Olympic Gold Medallist Satoshii Ishii in the heavyweight division and he went nowhere.

Unless you have the ability to effectively cut distance Judo cannot come into play.

In the case of Rousey; Her competition is so low [As is Rousey's other skill sets outside Judo] that she can move forward in a straight line [Rookie error], plant her feet square and swing [Another rookie error], her opponents do the same, she grabs an arm and finishes the fight.

In mens MMA you get KO'd. A fighter in the elite level of the mens division will require feints, solid boxing, level changes and the ability to cut angles to land a takedown or get to the clinch. If he was to move straight forward he would get jabbed into a bloody mess or KO'd in a heartbeat.

[lowbudgetballer]

I likely agree with everything you just said.

'baller

(09-11-2015 08:09 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  

(08-26-2015 01:17 PM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  

(08-03-2015 03:21 AM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

Question here: why would you do Judo if you can do Jujutsu? From what I understand Jujutsu has the best grappling stuff of Judo (Judo comes from Jujutsu) while still incorporate tons of useful stuff like kick, punch, joint manipulation. That should be a much better combination.

Oldstyle judo--i.e. 70s judo--remained closer it its jujutsu roots and contained and regularly trained striking, grappling, and groundwork and featured randori (essentially live wrestling). Sports schools threw this out and tend to focus on winning competition based on the current, usually Olympic, rules. That's why Rousey armlocks so fast. Brazilian Jujutsu focuses on groundwork and features randori, but lacks striking and throws. Traditional Jujutsu features all three ranges but lacks randori.

You don't usually find non-BJJ jujustu schools, but the closest thing is aikido. Good aikido schools feature randori and require judo and even karate certification to reach higher levels. Aikido wasn't even intended to be practiced until you have ten years in karate, judo, or both.

'baller

Judo is a great skill to have BUT… A big reason that Rousey arm locks so fast however is her level of competition. MMA has had the likes of Olympic Gold Medallist Satoshii Ishii in the heavyweight division and he went nowhere.

Unless you have the ability to effectively cut distance Judo cannot come into play.

In the case of Rousey; Her competition is so low [As is Rousey's other skill sets outside Judo] that she can move forward in a straight line [Rookie error], plant her feet square and swing [Another rookie error], her opponents do the same, she grabs an arm and finishes the fight.

In mens MMA you get KO'd. A fighter in the elite level of the mens division will require feints, solid boxing, level changes and the ability to cut angles to land a takedown or get to the clinch. If he was to move straight forward he would get jabbed into a bloody mess or KO'd in a heartbeat.

[Deepdiver]

Interesting article about how huge MMA has become among tough Russians:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ufc-champ-l...53870.html

Champions being offered lucrative training and sparring camp gigs...

Local Champions being rewarded with new Mercedes after big wins....

If any of you guys have Trainer cred... this could be a sweet opp.

[XXL]

Anyone tried KALI or KRAV MAGA??

I'm interested in a quick and effective self-defense martial art. I want to learn how to use objects to defend myself and how to subdue/quickly take an opponent down and leave without "fighting to fight" [throwing punches, wrestling, scrabbling, etc]

[cascadecombo]

(10-29-2015 05:59 AM)XXL Wrote:  

Anyone tried KALI or KRAV MAGA??

I'm interested in a quick and effective self-defense martial art. I want to learn how to use objects to defend myself and how to subdue/quickly take an opponent down and leave without "fighting to fight" [throwing punches, wrestling, scrabbling, etc]

This isn't either of the styles you are asking about, but I think I have a suggestion that would fit your needs.

Judo and possibly Sambo as well would be the kinds of arts where you can knock someone off balance and throw them and walk away unscathed after expending minimal energy. Works as a double bonus if you can throw someone into their friends to force their attention away from you.

One note about krav maga, I've tried it before and didn't find it to be very much different from a kickboxing class. However, I would venture to say that that was more due to the teachers and not the style.

[XXL]

Say what? from what i've seen both styles are minimalistic effective and practical in real life. especially kali with its focus on weapons fast close distance contact with fast paced movements.

[Saweeep]

The problem with Krav in America is that it is the new Karate...commercialised rubbish.

Real Krav is awesome. Just like real Karate.

[cascadecombo]

(10-29-2015 10:08 AM)XXL Wrote:  

Say what? from what i've seen both styles are minimalistic effective and practical in real life. especially kali with its focus on weapons fast close distance contact with fast paced movements.

I wasn't commenting on kali, I have next to no knowledge on that art.

The krav classes I went to, yes they were minimalistic and effective but I didn't find it worth my time to practice with the limited hours that dojo offered in a big group where it was [ jab -> jab -> elbow the nose ] or some other basic combo.

Keep in mind, I only have experience with a single gym, and the class sizes were fairly large. I find the kickboxing [shooto] classes at the gym I go to now to be a bit more effective, as with the smaller class sizes and teachers who are now also themselves training for their pro fights and are more than happy to do live sparring and offer pointers on the fly for weak spots.

Like crashbangwhallop said, it's really commercialized. The cult following it seems to have makes dojos appear with teachers who shouldn't be teaching it. So if you yourself are dead-set on joining a krav school, thoroughly vet the classes before you join.

[OGNorCal707]

(10-29-2015 05:59 AM)XXL Wrote:  

Anyone tried KALI or KRAV MAGA??

I'm interested in a quick and effective self-defense martial art. I want to learn how to use objects to defend myself and how to subdue/quickly take an opponent down and leave without "fighting to fight" [throwing punches, wrestling, scrabbling, etc]

No experience with Krav although I hear great things, I know it's more for "street survival" than sport (MMA martial arts), and the same goes for Kali. I studied Kali for about 1.5 years and it is a great martial arts style, great for street self defense, and one of my martial arts instructors calls it the "most complete" style of martial arts, and he's got a black belt in BJJ under Rorian Grace, studied Jeet Kune Do and Kali under Bruce Lee's greatest student, Dan Inosanto, as well as having trained boxing at Joe Frazier's gym in Philly way back in the day.

Kali is heavy on stick and knife fighting, but with also with a complete system of stand up striking empty hand, including joint locks, breaks, takedowns, etc. A lot of the take downs are from standing and not like wrestling takedowns such as double legs, etc. where you shoot low to go to the ground, the Kali takedown are usually sweeps, trips, etc., so that your opponents goes down, but you remained standing.

I think I pretty much started to reach the "early intermediate" stage of Kali before I basically quit. I was trying to also do Kung Fu, Muay Thai, and a little BJJ as well and it was all too much. My gripe with Kali which someone needs to take in consideration before they start to train is, the system is essentially based on stick fighting. So unlike virtually all other styles of martial arts that start you empty hand then teach weapons later, with Kali they start you off with a stick and that's all you train or usually 80% of what you start to train.

The idea is that all the movement of attack with the stick translate over to the knife and empty hands, which is true in a sense, but training sticks and getting really good at them won't automatically make you good at your empty hand striking.

My interest with martial arts is primarily all focused on empty hand stand up striking styles, so I had a hard time with all the stick fighting we'd do, fortunately I got to get a good bit of knife training as well as empty hand striking, but usually it'd be 80% stick fighting.

I just think the chances of me getting into a fight where I have a stick is minuscule compared to the chances of some drunk guy trying to fight me at the bar. Basically I switched over to almost all Muay Thai for the past 2 years.

When you train Kali I'd say usually your first 3-6 months will be almost all stick fighting, then after 6 months usually they'll introduce some knife, and empty hand stuff. I was doing a private lesson with a Kali master for 1.5 hours every week for almost a year that's how I managed to get pretty good at it, but I'd say you're going to need to devote at least 2-3 years to get good at the style, more like 5-10 to get excellent, but then the same can maybe be said for other styles as well.

You hear about TKD and Karate guys getting black belts in like 3-4, but I don't see you really reaching the highest level of Kali in that time, the style just has so much between the stick, knife, and empty hands, especially since the empty hands have so many lock, breaks, takedowns, etc. that you won't find in a lot of the Karate styles.

[OGNorCal707]

(10-30-2015 03:05 AM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

Like crashbangwhallop said, it's really commercialized. The cult following it seems to have makes dojos appear with teachers who shouldn't be teaching it. So if you yourself are dead-set on joining a krav school, thoroughly vet the classes before you join.

I'm starting to think that once you get to a certain skill level at martial arts the best way to see if you want to train a new style or see how skilled the instructor is, would be to ask him to spar discreetly after class or on the weekend. If you wipe the floor with the guy then you may want to reconsider training under him, or training that style in general.

I sparred a Krav brown belt once, I think I probably landed more overall strikes and bigger shots, but I also had probably about 3-4 inches of height and reach on the guy, plus a lot of that Krav shit is meant to brutally take your opponent out in the streets which you're not going to do to your sparring partner in a friendly spar. That said if the guy was horrible and didn't land anything meaningful and had horrible footwork and defense, I'd probably have my doubts about him and his style.

[XXL]

thx OGNorCal that's what i needed to know.

i like that great combination of fast moves short range fighting and focus on knives etc. and watching videos of doug marcaida only encouraged me to do it.

[Oz.]

I trained Goju Ryu for about eight years maybe more, the training was brutal. I had done other martial arts prior to this but nothing compared. There is full contact bare knuckle fighting involved and a lot of the techniques are not to subdue an opponent but instead to hurt him to the point where he cannot come after you.

This is a small clip although it doesn't quite capture the essence of it.

[Saweeep]

I've never seen a move in Krav, and I know it inside out and back to front to the point of feeling comfortable teaching it, that I haven't seen in Kung Fu, for instance. I'm sure I'd find every technique in other traditional martial arts too if I bothered to look.

There's only so many ways to punch, kick, block, disarm etc...the mechanics of the human body haven't changed in however many million years.

[Agreddor]

Got my first black eye last night. Anyone know from experience how long they take to heal?

[KC4]

^^ it varies from person to person and much damage that was inflicted , it could take anywhere from 1 week to a month in my experience. Never had one but a few guys at gym got messed up pretty badly And it took one guy 3 weeks to recover.

[H1N1]

A really good one is usually a couple of weeks at least before all the colour is gone. Ironically, despite many years of roughhousing and fight training, the worst one I've ever had came from playing with my dog. That one took the best part of a month to disappear.

[Oz.]

I had one for about three weeks also the punch did a lot of damage my nose stayed permanently crooked

It only looks really bad the first week or two after that it just turns a yellowish color