[WestIndianArchie]

(05-22-2015 08:46 AM)Apollo21 Wrote:  

I agree...game all comes down to the way you approach it.

For me, the purpose of game is to find and genuinely connect with
amazing girls on an emotional level. It's not about sleeping with her
at all...since we all know she eventually wants to sleep with somebody.

Why break into the vault when you can access the keys
and walk in?

That's why game is often perceived as difficult because many guys
are so focused on the "bang" and notches, when actually it's very easy if you
focus on quality relationships and genuine emotion instead.

Advanced Game then is all about the quality of your relationships and the level
of discipline you employ while interacting with women.

Sleeping with women is a natural by-product of game. Just like winning a championship
is all about teamwork, discipline and heart...and not about the physical trophy at all.

Play with heart, discipline and skill to develop quality relationships
and you'll have advanced game.

I don't necessarily agree with your definition, but I likes the rest.

I'm much more interested in her mind, thus I tend to get her mind first. The body and the heart just come naturally.

I really need to put together my thoughts on how to deal with a chick who is boring and what that really means.

WIA

[Apollo21]

That's cool...It's really an individual and a strategic choice
based on what's most important to you.

For me, I prefer having great relationships that offer more than
just sex.

The great thing about game is that you can pursue different objectives

For some guys all they really want is to get laid...it's not so much about
the emotional connection as it is doing what it takes to get the
girl home and then move on to the next.

That's fine if you want it. However I'd rather focus on creating quality relationships
Life is too short for one dimensional relationships...and quantity isn't really a priority for me.

Of course, you still have to escalate and get physical...it's just that your priorities are different
which affects the style, purpose and nature of your game.

[WestIndianArchie]

In some sense, game is personality/social position transformation, and women (money, power, respect) are the side effects.

WIA

[456]

I think advanced game encompasses the following elements beyond actually having game:

- genuinely feeling entitled and valuable, not just acting it

- recognizing and acting upon subtle signals, reading between the lines, in a natural, internalized way

- results: real-world feedback that your game is working (to disprove any delusions of grandeur)

I guess these points are headed towards "unconscious competence" (wiki) with Game.

Since everyone's goals/circumstances/limits differ, hitting that fourth "level" of competence can broadly be considered Advanced.

[Vicious]

Presence alone telling the surroundings of who you are.

[WestIndianArchie]

(06-28-2015 10:06 AM)456 Wrote:  

I think advanced game encompasses the following elements beyond actually having game:

- genuinely feeling entitled and valuable, not just acting it

- recognizing and acting upon subtle signals, reading between the lines, in a natural, internalized way

- results: real-world feedback that your game is working (to disprove any delusions of grandeur)

I guess these points are headed towards "unconscious competence" (wiki) with Game.

Since everyone's goals/circumstances/limits differ, hitting that fourth "level" of competence can broadly be considered Advanced.

Personally, I don't think internalization of the skill set is "advanced" game, because everyone who's successful gets to the point of "conscious competence"

That's within the reach of all practitioners.
It doesn't take long for you to stop asking yourself, "what am I gonna say next"

At the beginning, a young player
- afraid to approach
- not sure what to say
- not confident in himself
- afraid to escalate

The intermediate player doesn't have those problems. The short game is for the most part solved.

The intermediate game is about
- consistency - solved by being systematic. I
- quantity - finding a niche and being systematic about that niche
- quality (which RVF only defines as beauty) - getting access to the few places where they congregate

There are always going to be situations where the factors aren't favorable
- seeing a cute girl out in public, and the player is on his way somewhere and doesn't have time to do more than introduce himself, flirt, and get the #.

That's not a problem of game, that's a "problem" of priorities. He values his own shit more than just some random hottie.

Indeed, one of the downsides of consistency is that beauty becomes common. A cute girl was fine, now you need a hot one, before long she has to be beautiful, and after that you're chasing unicorns.

The central problem I'm getting at is that under most people's definition of advanced, most players can become advanced by just mastering the basics.

Increase your general attractiveness, put yourself in more situations, and go further in those situations than you have before - boom - advanced game.

I'm not exactly sure why people don't see the problem with that kind of mentality, but I'm not surprised that people don't see it.

It's like understanding the appeal of celebrity or good looks.

The guys that have worked hard or been blessed, have really just expanded their pool of willing women. More women CHOOSE to be with the guy. It's less about his interactions with her than her believing her own fairy tale and him just greasing the rails.

So that's when guys lose fame, lose money, whatever external quality that attracted women - they also lose their "game".

All You People are Vampires

I can't really convince you folks, cause I keep hearing the same arguments/ideas repeated in the slightly words over and over again.

Understandable, as I sometimes don't read the entire thread before responding.

WIA

[456]

So if mastering the basics and having conscious OR unconscious competence is just Game and not Advanced Game, should the differentiation come from something innate in the person (disposition) or can it come from something purposeful (actions)?

When I say something like "genuinely feeling entitled and valuable, not just acting it", obviously that's a little vague and could apply to someone's intermediate Game. Most with decent game have a solid feeling of self-worth and entitlement, but some folks exude this so heavily, or more believably, that it seems more "Advanced".

WIA, are you saying that if it's somehow external or "take-away-able", it can't be considered? If so, I would agree -- a wealthy guy with good game should be able to score without his riches.

Care to summarize what you think constitutes advanced game so far? Any particular points in the thread that aren't the same ideas? It's interesting to get at the distinction...

[WestIndianArchie]

(06-28-2015 11:29 AM)456 Wrote:  

So if mastering the basics and having conscious OR unconscious competence is just Game and not Advanced Game, should the differentiation come from something innate in the person (disposition) or can it come from something purposeful (actions)?

I lean more towards action, deliberate and conscious action.

(06-28-2015 11:29 AM)456 Wrote:  

When I say something like "genuinely feeling entitled and valuable, not just acting it", obviously that's a little vague and could apply to someone's intermediate Game. Most with decent game have a solid feeling of self-worth and entitlement, but some folks exude this so heavily, or more believably, that it seems more "Advanced".

That to me trends towards advanced. When you stop focusing on the external things like lines and routines, muscles and clothes, popping bottles and being seen.

Still, that kind of internal stuff is so..shall we say...wishy washy?

Sort of thing that most guys feel exists, but the second you start to explain it, break it down - it falls apart. You can always have truisms, "hold frame", "be the man" "irrational confidence" - but I don't know if you're like me, when I hear that kinda talk without the specifics - I get turned off. If I wanted that sort of guidance, I'd go to church or a Tony Robbins seminar.

(06-28-2015 11:29 AM)456 Wrote:  

WIA, are you saying that if it's somehow external or "take-away-able", it can't be considered? If so, I would agree -- a wealthy guy with good game should be able to score without his riches.

As advanced game? I don't want to go that far. Building something external to yourself in order to bring chicks into your life isn't game 101 for sure.

Maybe that is advanced game. Setting something up that does all the meeting, attracting, obstacle disarming, comfort building.. so you don't have to put very much effort into that part of the seduction.

She comes to you wet with desire.

Game as net fishing? Game as farming?

Regular game seems to be line fishing. Get a good rod and reel, best bait and hook you can find, and then go to the place where you think the fish are biting.

As metaphors go, they are all about feeding yourself, consuming.

In my mind, the Holy Grail of game isn't a huge swath of attractive women being scooped up - it's being able to pick 1 chick out of a sea of man and making her yours.

To torture this further, basic game, intermediate game - is a #'s game where the odds get better and better. Going from 1 in 1,000, to 1 in 4, where you have endless opportunities to play and the payoff is much greater than the expenditure.

Maybe i'm moving towards the idea that it can't just be a #'s game.

It's still up in the air.

This is a thinking post, not an "i have an answer" post.

I don't really craft general solutions for public consumption, just specific solutions with general and adaptable ideas.

(06-28-2015 11:29 AM)456 Wrote:  

Care to summarize what you think constitutes advanced game so far? Any particular points in the thread that aren't the same ideas? It's interesting to get at the distinction...

I'll have to read the post again.

WIA

[456]

WIA -- I dig the line fishing analogy. Out there on the public dock with your one reel, versus having created a commercial fishery where seaworthy boats cast huge nets. Even that's still fishing though. Maybe advanced game is "being that spot in the sea where the fish want to congregate", hah. Stretched...

But I think that concept of fishing versus being the draw is clear and starts to point towards advanced.

[Apollo21]

Constant Never Ending Improvement or Kaizen. That's the definition of advanced game.
It's not a "place" you can actually reach. Instead you are continuously looking for new areas
of improvement or growth to experience greater fulfillment and achievement.

Game fundamentally is just a process where you direct your focus and energy
towards reaching a goal. And when you reach that goal, you start overt with a new goal.
In this way it's a continuous process of improvement.

[General Mayhem]

(06-28-2015 10:47 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

The guys that have worked hard or been blessed, have really just expanded their pool of willing women. More women CHOOSE to be with the guy. It's less about his interactions with her than her believing her own fairy tale and him just greasing the rails.

I really like that line. As my game improved I saw a trend where I wasn't doing most of the work. Most of the time the chick's hamster was spinning up some kind of fairy tale involving me. Even now in my LTR it is my girl's fairy tale idealization of the relationship that drives her. I grease the tracks but the real magic is happening in her head.

(06-28-2015 12:04 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

In my mind, the Holy Grail of game isn't a huge swath of attractive women being scooped up - it's being able to pick 1 chick out of a sea of man and making her yours.

What exactly do you mean by this?

Last night my girl got down on her knees and washed my feet when I came home from work. I can say that she is mine without any delusions because I've checked all the boxes and know she is fully devoted, but I still wouldn't say I have advanced game.

[WestIndianArchie]

(06-30-2015 07:46 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

(06-28-2015 10:47 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

The guys that have worked hard or been blessed, have really just expanded their pool of willing women. More women CHOOSE to be with the guy. It's less about his interactions with her than her believing her own fairy tale and him just greasing the rails.

I really like that line. As my game improved I saw a trend where I wasn't doing most of the work. Most of the time the chick's hamster was spinning up some kind of fairy tale involving me. Even now in my LTR it is my girl's fairy tale idealization of the relationship that drives her. I grease the tracks but the real magic is happening in her head.

(06-28-2015 12:04 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

In my mind, the Holy Grail of game isn't a huge swath of attractive women being scooped up - it's being able to pick 1 chick out of a sea of man and making her yours.

What exactly do you mean by this?

Last night my girl got down on her knees and washed my feet when I came home from work. I can say that she is mine without any delusions because I've checked all the boxes and know she is fully devoted, but I still wouldn't say I have advanced game.

Naw, devotion, I've found to be pretty easy. At least at the beginning of the relationship.

Let's say Drake tours Australia, plenty of bad Australian bitches are going to want to get on his tour bus/into his hotel room. He's gonna get some great kangaroo pussy.

But he can't just roam through Sydney and pick a bitch.

Much like a hot chick has plenty of offers, but she can't just say, "I want Denzel Washington"

It's the nature of the beast. Even when you have a lot, you can't have everything.

WIA

[General Mayhem]

(06-30-2015 08:39 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 07:46 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

(06-28-2015 10:47 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

The guys that have worked hard or been blessed, have really just expanded their pool of willing women. More women CHOOSE to be with the guy. It's less about his interactions with her than her believing her own fairy tale and him just greasing the rails.

I really like that line. As my game improved I saw a trend where I wasn't doing most of the work. Most of the time the chick's hamster was spinning up some kind of fairy tale involving me. Even now in my LTR it is my girl's fairy tale idealization of the relationship that drives her. I grease the tracks but the real magic is happening in her head.

(06-28-2015 12:04 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

In my mind, the Holy Grail of game isn't a huge swath of attractive women being scooped up - it's being able to pick 1 chick out of a sea of man and making her yours.

What exactly do you mean by this?

Last night my girl got down on her knees and washed my feet when I came home from work. I can say that she is mine without any delusions because I've checked all the boxes and know she is fully devoted, but I still wouldn't say I have advanced game.

Naw, devotion, I've found to be pretty easy. At least at the beginning of the relationship.

Let's say Drake tours Australia, plenty of bad Australian bitches are going to want to get on his tour bus/into his hotel room. He's gonna get some great kangaroo pussy.

But he can't just roam through Sydney and pick a bitch.

Much like a hot chick has plenty of offers, but she can't just say, "I want Denzel Washington"

It's the nature of the beast. Even when you have a lot, you can't have everything.

WIA

That makes sense. So essentially what you are saying that advanced game is when you no longer have to play the numbers game?

[WestIndianArchie]

(06-30-2015 08:48 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

That makes sense. So essentially what you are saying that advanced game is when you no longer have to play the numbers game?

Maybe.

A big maybe. And if that is advanced game, then advanced game does not exist outside of some Professor X/Jean Grey/FSB/CIA type stuff.

There is probably another angle to approach this from that I'm not seeing.

WIA

[General Mayhem]

(06-30-2015 08:51 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 08:48 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

That makes sense. So essentially what you are saying that advanced game is when you no longer have to play the numbers game?

Maybe.

A big maybe. And if that is advanced game, then advanced game does not exist outside of some Professor X/Jean Grey/FSB/CIA type stuff.

There is probably another angle to approach this from that I'm not seeing.

WIA

I'm trying to think of what the difference would be between a guy like Drake fucking Australian groupies versus a dude who could roam through Sydney and pick a bitch.

If advanced game meant not playing a numbers game it wouldn't really exist like you said. You would maybe have to be some rare archetype of guy that a girl hasn't checked off her sport fuck list, something exotic that she hasn't seen. Even then I don't think you would just be able to pick. Bitches are too whimsical with their emotions.

If intermediate game is where your odds get better from 1 in 1000 to something like 1 in 4 then maybe elite game is just better odds, 1 in 3 or 1 in 2.

[civpro]

IMO whether a guy game that's "good" or "advanced" comes down basically to his ability to convert open leads, i.e. fuck girls in and around his league. That is, his ability to create and churn through volume and then capitalize on Yes Girls and Maybe Girls with the highest proficiency. Quantity & Speed. As for Quality, the guy's League, and who are his Yes, Maybe, and No girls - that is fixed by his appearance and occupation, which he will roughly score around, sometimes higher, oftentimes lower.

Those who I notice have this tend to be smarter than average charismatic guys with a sort of Messiah-complex who steamroll venues with their force of purpose. So say, the commercial PUAs like Will Beck and a few RSD guys I've met.

[Russian Man]

No matter how much you are pulling, or the quality, or the rates... there are always nuances that one must perfect. Think of a pianist, you have people who have been playing for 10+ years, can play the notes with perfect technique, yet are not advanced because they lack the deep understanding of the top pianists who have decades of experience.

Hence I would say that nobody can truly be considered "advanced" unless they have anywhere from 5 to 10 years of experience.

[Natural Born Gyalist]

Advanced Game is like the Tao. It cannot be explained. It exists on its own accord and without effort. Just like the true Tao cannot be described, true advanced game is ephemeral and cannot be distilled or relayed. Only a reasonable facsimile of it can be transmitted as an idea in words. Because of its relative nature it cannot be codified in absolutes. Advanced game has to be experienced to be understood. Only then can it be internalized and externally expressed.

[Apollo21]

Totally agree. Your growth as a person has a huge impact on your game.
Without growth and an evolving understanding of how people think and feel
it will be difficult to advance and expand your capabilities.

[TrifeLife]

To me its in turning the tides. If a guy can consistently take down girls whom upon first impression deemed him unworthy of bending over for, I consider his Game advanced. I realize this definition does not imply some mythical element which you seem to be looking for WIA.

To me sound Game is making the right moves when a girl is interested. Maintain a dominant frame, exude an abundance mentality, etc. I execute this very consistently with girls who are within range of my SMV. When I do happen to go above pay grade it is usually because I have some strong situational pre-selection going, and it's something they perceive immediately. In other words I'm not changing many girls' minds with some Game jedi mind trick.

The next rung down is the blue pill indoctrinated derp derp eager to please nice guys. These guys dry up pussies, even those of less attractive girls sometimes. I know a lot of guys like this, I'm sure everybody does.

[Rush87]

I would assume advanced game is that learned ability to know all the tangibles. I.E: While you're having a conversation you know the consequences of your actions rather than just spitting conversation with a vague idea of why you do what.

When the brain is selectively utilising the right movements and constructing the appropriate sentences on the run… For me that's advanced game.

Personally I've never put in the hours of effort to even get close to this level of game. I'm conscious of my actions in some areas and running completely blind in others.

[Pride male]

When you can tell when a girl is interested, when she she isnt and when she is being coy.

[Moma]

(10-12-2015 11:07 PM)TrifeLife Wrote:  

To me its in turning the tides. If a guy can consistently take down girls whom upon first impression deemed him unworthy of bending over for, I consider his Game advanced. I realize this definition does not imply some mythical element which you seem to be looking for WIA.

To me sound Game is making the right moves when a girl is interested. Maintain a dominant frame, exude an abundance mentality, etc. I execute this very consistently with girls who are within range of my SMV. When I do happen to go above pay grade it is usually because I have some strong situational pre-selection going, and it's something they perceive immediately. In other words I'm not changing many girls' minds with some Game jedi mind trick.

The next rung down is the blue pill indoctrinated derp derp eager to please nice guys. These guys dry up pussies, even those of less attractive girls sometimes. I know a lot of guys like this, I'm sure everybody does.

I like your definition. I think it's the ability in getting lizards that one isn't really supposed to get. So an average man pulling royalty on a consistent basis or having the mind fcuk skill set strong enough to actually make lizards fight over him and do anything HE wants to stay in his life.

If a ripped, adonis is pulling jessica alba then that isn't advanced game EVEN if he is a broke cat. You have to do the unbelievable CONSISTENTLY to be one with advanced game. That's how I see it. For example, those pot bellied short guys that you lot would agree is ugly but always has a bad lizard on his arm. A lizard that he doesn't pay for. He always has a new lizard on his arm and is at the point where he is actually deploying the lizards to go out and do his bidding.

That would be my definition of advanced game.
I was speaking to some Naija guy in Toronto some years ago and he was saying there was a short, dark pot bellied guy in his church that had two black lizards fighting viciously over him in public.

Stuff like that would be the semblance to me of advanced game.

[Cyr]

I know I'm grave digging with this old thread, but I just had a thought today that reminded me of it.

One workable definition for advanced game, could be thinking 'I want that girl', and getting her, or at least having a good chance. Game generally is fairly plural- I know that sometimes if I go out and I speak to enough girls, I might pull. As I improve the percentages increase. But I can't like a specific girl and get her to like me back- my game works for some girls, not for others and there's chance involved as well.

[WestIndianArchie]

My feelings have changed on the subject.

Advanced game is directly using sub communications to work on her primal urges.

Traveler Kai's post on martial arts clarified my thoughts on game the twin discipline.

Think of game as kung fu and advanced game as dim mak.

Faster, deeper, stronger, longer,

I just need to continue my work in the field to see if any of this bears out.

WIA