[WestIndianArchie]

@Menace, if the question was that easy, I wouldn't have posted it.

Having an exemplar means I'd think through what I've seen him do publicly and compare to others.

There is no way I'd know for sure, but that logic sweeps over everything. No one knows with certainty why a woman chooses to sleep with him on any given occasion. Ambiguity is part and parcel of the entire thing.

WIA

[Kamikaze]

I should preface this by saying that when I talk about game, I'm talking about merely one variable in the entire realm of attracting girls. Looks, lifestyle, physique, height, money, fame are all factors that play a role in attraction. Some factors we have more control over than others, but these are exclusive of game as I see it. Game, to me, is the creation of situations to attract a girl through conversation, that otherwise would not exist. Verbal skills, through and through.

By this definition, including quality into the equation becomes murky. Picture a guy who, physically, is an 8 on the 1-to-10. Say he consistently bangs 7s, which would be considered advanced by many here. This guy does not have the same game as a guy who is a 6, consistently climbing one point above and grabbing the same bitches his better looking friend does.

Just for kicks, let's take a look at this thread.

Who has more game if they're both banging the same quality, 1st or 2nd guy?





Advanced game is consistently punching above your weight through verbal and nonverbal communication. Anyway, that's my view on quality in the skill-equation.

(05-19-2015 03:28 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

He spells out everything he's doing. a blueprint to Pussy. He's a guy, just like me and you.

Advanced players are content generators. They've identified the patterns that attract most girls, and work within that framework, constantly improvising. It's very much like a sport, where players talk about things slowing down. Advanced players anticipate conversations, eliciting reactions by asking specific questions phrased in juuuust the right way. And if some improvisation softly flops, they can backtrack just fine and cover their bases and still recover the bang.

(05-21-2015 10:51 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

It could be that there is no such thing as advanced game, it's just internalizing the basics, practice, experience, and refinement. But there is nothing bigger than that.

How is internalizing the basics, practice, experience, and refinement different from becoming advanced at any other skill? I'll post this because it's somewhat relevant. In this video former NBA players talk about what made the difference in the ultimate basketball legacy between athletically gifted freaks like Tmac, and the GOAT, Michael Jordan.

Steve Kerr remarks that Tmac possibly just didn't have the heart compared to someone like Jordan. Isiah Thomas and Kenny Smith correct him and explain that Jordan had great coaching and mastered the fundamentals which, combined with his athletic gifts, propelled him to greater heights than anyone else. Isiah also brings up the interesting example of Larry Bird, a guy who was by no means as athletically gifted as most NBA players, but he did every little basic thing perfectly, every single time.

Perhaps what you're getting at is what makes a true innovator. Without internalizing the basics you cannot innovate in any field, and that internalization comes through practice. Eventually your brain rewires in such a way that you achieve a level that most people simply will never achieve, though hard work.

But having that motor, that drive, also plays a role. And if you've been around hard-working people, you know that working hard is a skill in itself. Especially in a field where the information is as disjointed as it is in game, setting out to find order in the chaos of all the conflicting information takes a special kind of devotion that only comes from truly finding people fascinating.

On a surface level, game is no more than being an interesting dude, and portraying that in conversation to elicit positive emotions. Except that to do that consistently, with a variety of girls, is extremely fucking hard for many people. It requires a frame of mind that's simply different. You have to find people innately interesting to do that, to study them and deconstruct them.

Advanced players and conversationalists are simply wired differently. The most similar type of people I can think of are comedians. The job of a comedian is to seek out similar experiences and riff about them on stage, by themselves, for an hour or more. Sound familiar?

Look up videos or podcasts of comedians in their everyday lives, and wouldn't you know, they're usually funny, interesting motherfuckers off-stage too. They have put in the work to know what is interesting to people, and find unique ways to show it. They interact in the world differently. Watch ComediansInCarsGettingCoffee.

Check out early videos of comedians and you can see the process. Dave Chappelle is a perfect example. Some of his early videos are just painful, the way he tries so hard. But through practice he earned a place on the Mount Rushmore of comedy.

I'm fortunate enough to personally know a guy who I consider has extremely advanced game, dare I say world-class. I've studied that ugly motherfucker for years now. His wiring is simply different, and even if he were to explain himself, which he is obviously inclined not to, achieving that proficiency takes so many hours, having the balls to create situations for yourself, putting your ego on the line, and having the level of obsession required to find the patterns but then hash out all the details...

The level of granularity is insane. And most people will never get there, no matter how much information is out there, and it's definitely out there. A lot of people don't even see it, when it's right in front of their very eyes.

But take heart. Game is simple... just be an interesting dude and show it effectively. Easy.

[Mister X]

I think there's several interpretations. One that comes to mind is a guy who has put time and effort into improving himself, learning from experiences, and building on his successes. To a level where he is consistently getting the quality he wants, and never settling for anything less. But I also think advanced game can be when a guy overcomes improbable odds with relatively nothing in his favor except for game. Meaning for example, a nerdy, short, non-white guy, getting a tall, quality white chick, without fame, money, social status, etc. He does it with just inner confidence and an expert understanding of women.

So, basically, these two schools.

Advanced game is when a guy gets into game as a beginner and continues making improvements year to year.

Advanced game is when the gap between your sexual market value and the girl's sexual market value is significantly wide.

[Cobra]

I believe there are two distinctions as far as the forum and who I believe has the slightest iota of Advanced Game.

1. Guys that approach and post their approaches on the forum. See "The Approach Thread." Most courageous men on the forum.
2. Guys that meet other members and they see them approach, most likely resulting in rep points.
3. Guys that post about game and give advice but never post about their own approaches.
4. Guys who have met none or a few forum members and/or never met a member who saw them in an "approach" capacity.

So..

My point is #1 and #2 have more credibility in my eyes than #3 and #4 when they talk game.

#3 and #4, well.... I used to think these guys have game because they write so elaborately and have mad rep points, BUT in discussion with some solid forum members, I have realized recently that atleast some of these guys may be posers. Don't get me wrong, I like your writing; but I need more meat on those shiny bones to digest.

If I haven't read about your approaches specifically, gentlemen, or heard or read about you through another forum member or rep points, I question your credibility. Furthermore, newbies get an exception for this since they are genuinely asking for help.

A newbie taking action here is more "Advanced" in my eyes than a highly repped member writing about game with no approaches or very low or no meetup reps. The latter is smoke and mirrors. Don't let it cloud your judgment.

Would love some thoughts on this.

[Mister X]

(05-21-2015 06:24 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

I believe there are two distinctions as far as the forum and who I believe has the slightest iota of Advanced Game.

1. Guys that approach and post their approaches on the forum. See "The Approach Thread." Most courageous men on the forum.
2. Guys that meet other members and they see them approach, most likely resulting in rep points.
3. Guys that post about game and give advice but never post about their own approaches.
4. Guys who have met none or a few forum members and/or never met a member who saw them in an "approach" capacity.

So..

My point is #1 and #2 have more credibility in my eyes than #3 and #4 when they talk game.

#3 and #4, well.... I used to think these guys have game because they write so elaborately and have mad rep points, BUT in discussion with some solid forum members, I have realized recently that atleast some of these guys may be posers. Don't get me wrong, I like your writing; but I need more meat on those shiny bones to digest.

If I haven't read about your approaches specifically, gentlemen, or heard or read about you through another forum member or rep points, I question your credibility. Furthermore, newbies get an exception for this since they are genuinely asking for help.

A newbie taking action here is more "Advanced" in my eyes than a highly repped member writing about game with no approaches or very low or no meetup reps. The latter is smoke and mirrors. Don't let it cloud your judgment.

Would love some thoughts on this.

Good advice is good advice in my opinion. I don't care who it came from. If it sounds good, I'll take it into account and maybe add it to my own game and test it out for myself.

[Moma]

(05-21-2015 02:12 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

No one knows with certainty why a woman chooses to sleep with him on any given occasion. Ambiguity is part and parcel of the entire thing.

WIA

I know why a lizard chooses to sleep with me. Because I'm available, sexy and she needs to fcuk. But my availability has a high order over the other two factors.

[WestIndianArchie]

Don't know what to tell you Corbra

If you doubt my cred, you doubt my cred.
I don't have anything to prove.
And couldn't prove it to you and your satisfaction if I wanted to.

We've already seen bonafide professionals, who've gotten cosigns from other professionals get exposed for faking footage.

Everything could be an elaborate con.
You can't really trust anyone.

What you can do is trust your own intuition.

If the logic is sound, if it matches your experience, then rock with it.
If it doesn't, move on.

But ad hominems aside, you haven't really addressed the question, just took shots at guys you wouldn't name.

WIA

(05-21-2015 06:24 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

I believe there are two distinctions as far as the forum and who I believe has the slightest iota of Advanced Game.

1. Guys that approach and post their approaches on the forum. See "The Approach Thread." Most courageous men on the forum.
2. Guys that meet other members and they see them approach, most likely resulting in rep points.
3. Guys that post about game and give advice but never post about their own approaches.
4. Guys who have met none or a few forum members and/or never met a member who saw them in an "approach" capacity.

So..

My point is #1 and #2 have more credibility in my eyes than #3 and #4 when they talk game.

#3 and #4, well.... I used to think these guys have game because they write so elaborately and have mad rep points, BUT in discussion with some solid forum members, I have realized recently that atleast some of these guys may be posers. Don't get me wrong, I like your writing; but I need more meat on those shiny bones to digest.

If I haven't read about your approaches specifically, gentlemen, or heard or read about you through another forum member or rep points, I question your credibility. Furthermore, newbies get an exception for this since they are genuinely asking for help.

A newbie taking action here is more "Advanced" in my eyes than a highly repped member writing about game with no approaches or very low or no meetup reps. The latter is smoke and mirrors. Don't let it cloud your judgment.

Would love some thoughts on this.

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-19-2015 02:13 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

I consider another element of advanced, or mastery level game is to leave girls better than you found them. Any schmuck can weasel his way into the pussy by lying or whatnot, but doing it without leaving her a train wreck takes advanced skill. If we all practiced this, the field would be much easier to play. Pay it forward for your fellow players.

Sorry I missed this, Underrated point.

1) You change her
2) She changes because of you

Goes beyond the typical attract/comfort/rapport/close model.

I'ts not necessarily what I was thinking, but now I have more to think about.

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-19-2015 07:27 PM)Apollo21 Wrote:  

You can't define advanced game until you define the purpose
of game itself...or what it is exactly you're playing for.

What's the outcome? Once you've fulfilled your purpose..ie that you can get
an attractive girl or even 10 of them, then your game has reached the peak of
it's natural lifecycle.

Some guys might be more experienced, or more creative, or have a better work
ethic...however once your purpose has been achieved then your game has
become "optimized" according to it's original purpose.

Define your purpose and you can define advanced game.

Now relationship game will be a little different since it doesn't have
such a clearly defined endstate and evolves over time so there's room
to advance and innovate since they're more open-ended.

Great comment.

I'd say the purpose of game is to get sex from women on your terms, not on theirs.

A small minority of men never get anything

A bulk of men get a taste of what is out there, but because the world is set up such that women are the gatekeepers of sex - they learn to get one and hold on to her as fast as they can.

That leaves the small percentage of guys out there who get what they want on their terms, or as close to it as possible. In terms of investment, the guy with game is putting very little into the situation but comparatively reaping a lot of reward.

Value can be very subjective, but I'd say a couple of hours of conversation/communication/interaction before coitus with a pretty girl is generally a bargain. Most should agree with that, though some may not.

Given that most guys have to spend considerably more time in order to get the same thing.

The unspoken holy grail is to be able to just show up and have chicks all over you.

Once I go down this road, it leads back to celebrity. Maybe not a national celeb, but a local celeb, a scenester even.

That doesn't necessarily seem right. That the sum total of advanced game is to get on a popular reality show.

There's a kernel of something else in this idea though.

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-20-2015 12:06 AM)The_CEO Wrote:  

When she thinks "team appetizer" means buying appetizers for you?

It means you don't blanche when she wants some Irish Nachos.

Some guys think its supplication, taking orders from a woman.
And if you supplicate, you lose status.
If you lose status, you lose the lay.

So never give a chick anything that she asks for.
You always have to make her earn it.

The team appetizer says, if she needs some calories, give it to her. It makes no difference either way. Her overall respect and submission to the man's will isn't related to whether she "scored a free shrimp cocktail". It's a real life example of an abundance mentality.

If you get caught up in the idea that anything that you don't do for yourself, anything you do where a woman benefits is supplication and loss of status - then you really shouldn't agree to meet her anywhere. You shouldn't even approach her. She should approach you, pay for everything, and then give you the sex that you like on your demand.

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-20-2015 03:01 AM)Ingocnito Wrote:  

Advanced game is control. That may mean High #s, or high quality, or both. It might mean staying power, or ability to attract women to the extent they're approaching you.

At any rate, it's rooted in having a greater level of control of your outcome.

agreed.

(05-20-2015 03:01 AM)Ingocnito Wrote:  

So I poise this question; Do you have to even be a "player" per se, to have advanced game? Maybe "advance game" is being able to turn off the energy draining efforts "game" takes, but rather turn it on/off with extremely focused precision when needed to get similar results to someone whose 24/7 in game mode.

If we establish that advanced game is internalized stuff with the results being high quantities of high quality - then yeah, you need to be a player.

But if advanced game isn't mastery of the previously outlined basics- if it's a different path to the same place - then you might not need to be a "player" in the classic sense.

And you see that crop up when guys post about their friends who they want to get into the game.

"he's got great people skills...really cool...but....settles for......doesn't know..."

(05-20-2015 03:01 AM)Ingocnito Wrote:  

If I approach 50 women (all 7s) and bang 3 of them, but another guy approaches 10 women (all 7s) and bangs 3 of them.. is he more likely to have advance game? Just a thought.

Not necessarily.

The other guy can have something about him that's not under his control that benefits him.

I'm 5'11 on a good day (6'0" online though!).
I went out with my boy who's 6'4". He got us into VIP at this spot, but he was actually a VIP/Club Regular. In with the promoters and staff. He had the place locked down.

The chicks were ON HIM. He was getting the eyes. Chick came up to him and was like "give me a call". On top of that, he had game.

At one point I lost track of him, but I managed to find what I wanted. He rolled up on me, like "Sorry man, but looks like you know what you're doing"

It was an eye opener, cause I usually don't deal with roped off spots and bottles on the table. If I'm at a spot like that, it's cause I know the dj, not the promoter.

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-21-2015 11:43 AM)Lizard King Wrote:  

I made a really bad error during our interaction, and then my mind went elsewhere, and I thought that was a big fuck up, if I was advanced, I would have known not to say that. Instead of saying what I did, I would have agreed and cajoled her, making her feel like her idea was great.

She was saying how she wanted a relationship that lasted forever(or some other crap), and I stupidly said 'all relationships end at some point', then I got carried away and said how the soul mate concept was a myth that holds people back and causes them to be unhappy. She simply could not understand the theories I was expounding, she wasn't very intelligent.

A lesson learned, but it made me realise that avoiding stuff like that would just come naturally to a more advanced guy.

There are a bunch of ways to address this.

1) A cat that doesn't date a lot would entirely miss that he messed up the vibe.

2) The young player is looking for that snappy line to recover. It always comes to him way after the fact.

3) The intermediate player would want to prevent that from happening in the first place. To do this, he'd dominate the conversation, and dazzle her with stories and jokes.

4) A Roissy style player would be provocative from the very beginning and troll her mercilessly.

5) They have a recovery routine in RSD, it's something like acknowledge that something was said, and then change the subject. I don't remember exactly what it is though.

6) I'd say a veteran player would also prevent this from happening, but not by talking himself, but making her talk. And let him be in the position to judge and take offense.

7) If there's such thing as an advanced player, he wants to be able to say whatever is on his mind (within reason), and she wants to hear more, because she wants to be close to him.

When a girl is really in to you, you can practically do no wrong.

"That's just his way"
"he's like that sometimes, but he's a sweetie"
"You don't know him like I do"

So long story short, the issue with the misstatement started before the statement was made.
___________________________________________________

I don't know how you met this chick and what was the spark that got the two of you out together, but the next chick, or the next meet with this chick - you have to approach it differently from the beginning. You want to set the tone of the date. So if you want to rail on the increasing taxes in your district, you've got to set her up for that and get her to buy into it. And when she agrees with your set up, you reward her for it.

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-21-2015 12:10 PM)Moma Wrote:  

So are we talking about advanced game covering defense and offense or is it just offense?

I was thinking just offense.

What would be the defense angle?

WIA

[Moma]

(05-21-2015 09:45 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-21-2015 12:10 PM)Moma Wrote:  

So are we talking about advanced game covering defense and offense or is it just offense?

I was thinking just offense.

What would be the defense angle?

WIA

Defense angle comes when you are in a position of power and she has a lot more to gain from the interaction than you. You have money, power and by association alone, you can change a lizard's social situation for the better by several levels.
What she has to offer is a tight sweet pu$$y, attractive face and body.
Basic when you break it down but always the heel of every red blooded heterosexual man.

When she's seasoned in fleecing powerful men and there are hordes of lizards like her with the same intent, how do you prevent her from taking your throne? Advanced game on a defensive tip. Or perhaps once you've reached the status of riches and fame, you've graduated from the shackles of game as we call it.

[WestIndianArchie]

I like and agree with a lot of what you've said.

1) The analogy between basketball and getting chicks into bed doesn't work for me. Basketball is a very tightly defined domain. Jordan was the best to ever do it, a great athlete, but specialized.

Bo Jackson was an all star in Football and Baseball, entirely different sports. MJ couldn't hack it baseball.

2) The punching above your weight analogy,

I don't know who said it, but whatever happens before you say a word, often vanishes when you start talking. That's why these chicks have such a menagerie of dicks in their records. She says she only likes guys with dark hair, but ends up fucking some bald guy or a blond dude. Plenty of 5'9 guys dating chicks that say they only mess with guys that are 6 feet.

If pretty boy fails to connect, he often fails, and she has to salvage the operation because she wants dick.

If ugly dude connects, suddenly he's kinda cute.
If ugly dude becomes the boyfriend, he now has a 10" dick.

(05-21-2015 05:02 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 03:28 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

He spells out everything he's doing. a blueprint to Pussy. He's a guy, just like me and you.

Advanced players are content generators. They've identified the patterns that attract most girls, and work within that framework, constantly improvising. It's very much like a sport, where players talk about things slowing down. Advanced players anticipate conversations, eliciting reactions by asking specific questions phrased in juuuust the right way. And if some improvisation softly flops, they can backtrack just fine and cover their bases and still recover the bang.

I have no problem with folks calling this guy an advanced player, but I don't see the things you describe as advanced game.

This is what you're supposed to do.

You drop little bait like "Where I'm from, people kiss each other on the cheek when they greet each other"

So she asks, "where are you from"

Then you launch into your fantastic story about growing up on the mean streets of Portugal.

Whether or not people are still doing what has been in print for years on end, I don't know.

(05-21-2015 05:02 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

(05-21-2015 10:51 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

It could be that there is no such thing as advanced game, it's just internalizing the basics, practice, experience, and refinement. But there is nothing bigger than that.

How is internalizing the basics, practice, experience, and refinement different from becoming advanced at any other skill? I'll post this because it's somewhat relevant. In this video former NBA players talk about what made the difference in the ultimate basketball legacy between athletically gifted freaks like Tmac, and the GOAT, Michael Jordan.

Sports tend to be very discrete universes of skills. Kobe and Lebron aren't taking their dribbling skills over to MMA and calling it Advanced Basketball.

I made a math analogy before. We can all add, subtract, multiply, and divide. That's basic math.

Geometry and Algebra are significantly different in conception than basic mathematics.

Really advanced math, like Calculus, Differential Equations, Fractals rely on that basic math background, but in addition to that, there's new ways of solving problems that you can't even contemplate with basic math.

Is game more like math or more like basketball?

I feel like it's more like math, but I think the bulk of the argument says it's much more like basketball.

(05-21-2015 05:02 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

Perhaps what you're getting at is what makes a true innovator. Without internalizing the basics you cannot innovate in any field, and that internalization comes through practice. Eventually your brain rewires in such a way that you achieve a level that most people simply will never achieve, though hard work.

Not really about innovation.
And you can definitely innovate a field without mastering the basics.

Quants are mathematicians and physicists who understand #'s and mathematical relationships at a deep level. Most of them do not have solid business backgrounds. Yet Quants have innovated finance. I don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole as many of the quants entirely missed the world financial crisis.

(05-21-2015 05:02 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

But having that motor, that drive, also plays a role. And if you've been around hard-working people, you know that working hard is a skill in itself. Especially in a field where the information is as disjointed as it is in game, setting out to find order in the chaos of all the conflicting information takes a special kind of devotion that only comes from truly finding people fascinating.

Tell me about it.

(05-21-2015 05:02 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

On a surface level, game is no more than being an interesting dude, and portraying that in conversation to elicit positive emotions. Except that to do that consistently, with a variety of girls, is extremely fucking hard for many people. It requires a frame of mind that's simply different. You have to find people innately interesting to do that, to study them and deconstruct them.

I won't disagree with this.

To your point and somewhat to Moma's point, the reward for pushing yourself to fuck a variety of girls in all sorts of situations is entirely internal. If you bang a Romanian, Hungarian, Czech, Serb, A Macedonian, Ukranian, a Polish chick, a Slovak, an Albanian...are you really gonna force yourself to find a hottie in chick in Moldova. You don't do it for the pussy, You do it to unlock the Balkan/Caucus achievement.

That's why you don't see a lot of guys traveling the world, learning new languages and cultures, just to get flags and notches. Even if it's 100,000 guys, that's a drop in the bucket for 7+ billion

Most will be happy with banging their local hotties and will pick the best of the lot to settle down with. The marginal value of another notch decreases unless something else is pushing you.

(05-21-2015 05:02 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

I'm fortunate enough to personally know a guy who I consider has extremely advanced game, dare I say world-class. I've studied that ugly motherfucker for years now. His wiring is simply different, and even if he were to explain himself, which he is obviously inclined not to, achieving that proficiency takes so many hours, having the balls to create situations for yourself, putting your ego on the line, and having the level of obsession required to find the patterns but then hash out all the details...

The level of granularity is insane. And most people will never get there, no matter how much information is out there, and it's definitely out there. A lot of people don't even see it, when it's right in front of their very eyes.

But take heart. Game is simple... just be an interesting dude and show it effectively. Easy.

Agreed on the don't see it, and the level of granularity.

Good discussion, lots of great points.

WIA

[Cobra]

(05-21-2015 06:40 PM)Mister X Wrote:  

Good advice is good advice in my opinion. I don't care who it came from. If it sounds good, I'll take it into account and maybe add it to my own game and test it out for myself.

I think you're confusing "sound advice" with "advice that sounds good." Aliblahba had a great post recently in the Tribal Meetup thread as to why people don't question credibility in game when they question it for Science and Finance. I used to audit large companies' financial statements. Just because the numbers looked good and the commentary sounded credible, didn't mean that it was. Same concept with game. You need credibility. That's why people need auditors.

(05-21-2015 08:18 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Don't know what to tell you Corbra

If you doubt my cred, you doubt my cred.
I don't have anything to prove.
And couldn't prove it to you and your satisfaction if I wanted to.

We've already seen bonafide professionals, who've gotten cosigns from other professionals get exposed for faking footage.

Everything could be an elaborate con.
You can't really trust anyone.

What you can do is trust your own intuition.

If the logic is sound, if it matches your experience, then rock with it.
If it doesn't, move on.

But ad hominems aside, you haven't really addressed the question, just took shots at guys you wouldn't name.

WIA

You don't have anything to prove to me WIA. I'm definitely a fan of your writing. And I don't have the time either to post names of people and call them out specifically. They know who they are. I think it's best to leave it like that because that's not my purpose here. Rather it is to add value and help how I can. I believe that should be everyone's purpose but I also believe everyone should be doing it with principle and credibility.

Let me start off by talking about why I didn't post a response. It's quite simple: I'm not even close to "Advanced" in game. So why respond as to what I think "Advanced" game is.

My response would come off with some lack of credibility even though it may not be as much as anyone that hasn't approached or practiced game AT ALL. In that sense, all you're getting from me and some others in this thread are perceptions. Smoke and Mirrors man. It's quite simply confusing.

Why is it confusing? Because comments from the credible members get lost within the ones that lack credibility. That's a theme on the forum in general; not just this thread. This is an internet forum and keyboard jockeying is not completely non-existent.

And my comments are not directed specifically at you. As I mentioned before there are many members who lack credibility. Anyone that posts a lot without making an effort to meet other members or post some of their approaches (data sheets and meetup commentaries included) comes off odd especially when they discuss game.

Their high writing quality and style are not relevant to me when it comes to game. I mean, a forum member recently mentioned that once someone realizes the patterns of game and the rhythm on the forum, they can certainly combine that with their writing skills and make up an elaborate persona to gather rep points. I do enjoy a good read but I also believe this.

I have not read all your posts to know what approaches you have done or if you've met others. I tried but was unsuccessful. However, you are highly respected and you probably have met people that can vouch for you. Again, you don't need to prove that or anything to me.

Overall, I sincerely have huge respect for the game. When I have done it and pounded the pavement with newbies and more Advanced players I saw it as a struggle with very little reward in the beginning. Some days the struggles are it and other days the rewards are little. I respect everyone that does it and those that are properly vouched for and know that struggle of actually approaching and actually gaming. I'll stick to reading and providing my attention to these people. I know some of them personally who have posted in this thread and I believe they are credible for example. I would suggest other forum members do the same.

All I'm saying is that when we reduce such a topic to a theoretical discussion about what anyone thinks Advanced game is, the conversation itself is not valid since you have posts with a lack of credibility. Again, practice and truth are better than theory. It's very difficult to sift through that both on this thread or on the forum.

[fiasco360]

If you get to stick your wiener in more attractive women over time then good for you.

Otherwise don't think about it. Most people I know who think about "levels of game" too much are usually those without much of it in the first place.

[Octavian]

(05-21-2015 10:27 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

(05-21-2015 06:40 PM)Mister X Wrote:  

Good advice is good advice in my opinion. I don't care who it came from. If it sounds good, I'll take it into account and maybe add it to my own game and test it out for myself.

I think you're confusing "sound advice" with "advice that sounds good." Aliblahba had a great post recently in the Tribal Meetup thread as to why people don't question credibility in game when they question it for Science and Finance. I used to audit large companies' financial statements. Just because the numbers looked good and the commentary sounded credible, didn't mean that it was. Same concept with game. You need credibility. That's why people need auditors.

(05-21-2015 08:18 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Don't know what to tell you Corbra

If you doubt my cred, you doubt my cred.
I don't have anything to prove.
And couldn't prove it to you and your satisfaction if I wanted to.

We've already seen bonafide professionals, who've gotten cosigns from other professionals get exposed for faking footage.

Everything could be an elaborate con.
You can't really trust anyone.

What you can do is trust your own intuition.

If the logic is sound, if it matches your experience, then rock with it.
If it doesn't, move on.

But ad hominems aside, you haven't really addressed the question, just took shots at guys you wouldn't name.

WIA

You don't have anything to prove to me WIA. I'm definitely a fan of your writing. And I don't have the time either to post names of people and call them out specifically. They know who they are. I think it's best to leave it like that because that's not my purpose here. Rather it is to add value and help how I can. I believe that should be everyone's purpose but I also believe everyone should be doing it with principle and credibility.

Let me start off by talking about why I didn't post a response. It's quite simple: I'm not even close to "Advanced" in game. So why respond as to what I think "Advanced" game is.

My response would come off with some lack of credibility even though it may not be as much as anyone that hasn't approached or practiced game AT ALL. In that sense, all you're getting from me and some others in this thread are perceptions. Smoke and Mirrors man. It's quite simply confusing.

Why is it confusing? Because comments from the credible members get lost within the ones that lack credibility. That's a theme on the forum in general; not just this thread. This is an internet forum and keyboard jockeying is not completely non-existent.

And my comments are not directed specifically at you. As I mentioned before there are many members who lack credibility. Anyone that posts a lot without making an effort to meet other members or post some of their approaches (data sheets and meetup commentaries included) comes off odd especially when they discuss game.

Their high writing quality and style are not relevant to me when it comes to game. I mean, a forum member recently mentioned that once someone realizes the patterns of game and the rhythm on the forum, they can certainly combine that with their writing skills and make up an elaborate persona to gather rep points. I do enjoy a good read but I also believe this.

I have not read all your posts to know what approaches you have done or if you've met others. I tried but was unsuccessful. However, you are highly respected and you probably have met people that can vouch for you. Again, you don't need to prove that or anything to me.

Overall, I sincerely have huge respect for the game. When I have done it and pounded the pavement with newbies and more Advanced players I saw it as a struggle with very little reward in the beginning. Some days the struggles are it and other days the rewards are little. I respect everyone that does it and those that are properly vouched for and know that struggle of actually approaching and actually gaming. I'll stick to reading and providing my attention to these people. I know some of them personally who have posted in this thread and I believe they are credible for example. I would suggest other forum members do the same.

All I'm saying is that when we reduce such a topic to a theoretical discussion about what anyone thinks Advanced game is, the conversation itself is not valid since you have posts with a lack of credibility. Again, practice and truth are better than theory. It's very difficult to sift through that both on this thread or on the forum.

I’d like to expand a bit on this. I think the problem here, WIA, is that in encouraging “new ideas” from experienced players you are needlessly complicating something that we should be trying to simplify. However difficult it is to put in practice, a theory of practical action should reduce complexity. To try and make a distinction between the terms skill, mastery, and advanced strikes me as an utter waste of time. “Advanced" is an adjective modifying the term “game.” If game means being able to bang or get into a relationship high quality women, then advanced game would simply be the ability to do that well. We can measure that by seeing who is able to get what kind of girl, at what level of effort, across a variety of situations, with minimal help from social status, and over a long period of time. If this line of thought is unsatisfying to you, it’s your responsibility to make clear what it is you think is missing.

To speak to Cobra’s point, it can be difficult on any forum to determine who is legit and who is a keyboard jockey. There are great guys on this forum, and it’s been my privilege to meet some of them. You can find them in the approach threads and in the player’s lounge. You can find them at meetups, grinding it out on the streets or in the bars. Perhaps they don’t post enough, but it is what they have learned through genuine experience that we should all be interested in hearing. Their advice is more likely to help than the advice of those who have shown only an ability to master game terminology.

[Noir]

I will agree with simplifying it but this is a discussion to actually dissect what it is. This is the purpose of the forum, as long as you can simplify and internalize for your own interactions.

Advanced game would be the recognition of how far you are from getting laid by reading her microsignals. Everything is intentional, not accidental.

We can agree that a woman’s reality is lead through men right? You acknowledge what would be the fastest way to boost her situational value in the pretext that you are the prize but really puppeteering the whole scene.

This would be the macro way of describing it.

On a micro scale, if I am in an environment where I can actively suss out what is going on through her mind and lead her without her realizing through tactics and vibe (advanced game) then logically we are employing advanced tactics. Where other chumps would fail, we come right.

I will try and add a lens to this discussion with an example.

You guys can be the judge.

At a bar, in the smoking area, a girl comes up to me from behind and starts touching my hair.

I turn around and she is shocked, tells me she thought I was someone else.

I tell her to sit on the bench, motioning and I ask her directly, who are you, hair whisperer? She introduces herself, beaming smile.

She sits between myself and my friend who starts his ‘hey how are you, what do you do, do you come here often etc.’ spiel.

She gives him some attention and I intercept, lying, telling her I have met her before and justified that as ‘why she came up to me/must have recognized me’ and she was drunk. I haven’t but I knew this would be a plus. It provided comfort to her hamster. I managed to realize what type of girl she is that she would frequent certain places. Stereotypes are helpful.

From the moment she sat next to me, I recognized her buying temperature was high and I placed my hand firmly on the inside of her thigh, as she spoke to my friend.

After 60 seconds, I told her to come inside for a ‘dance’ to show me her moves and to qualify her.

I lead by her hand, slam her against the wall and start making out within 120 seconds. She eats my face and gives me the “OMG, how is this happening”. “You’re magical baby, where did you come from”. She gives me her number and tells me 3 times, where she lives.

I left and my girlfriend was outside the bar, where I met her and left.

I never called this girl.

My wing deflected as she was going to follow me out and I left.

Now, game that is advanced has elements of adapting, being a chameleon and most importantly, recognizing where in the totem pole to the bed she is. Recognizing that and channelling it correctly. Compare this to my mate who began from square one.

Is this advanced; harnessing the buying temperature, creating a fantasy narrative built on fibs to get my dick wet and leading despite making it seem accidental and full of chemistry?

Some more examples would be great.

A more general way of describing game would be recognizing that as humans, akin to a Venn diagram, we intersect and get along.

If my personality/vibe is A – Z and I notice that a girl is in to J – Y, I will emphasise J – Y and actively tamper with it to get the most out of the interaction. Combined with tampering with attention levels, this is the most basic way of explaining it.

If you are advanced, you can pick up on smaller micronuances in her behaviour and change your behaviour for her to ping favourably off it.

What do you guys think?

[Moma]

WIA, I agree with the sports analogy of game to basketball. Game is about empathy. A more advanced gamer is an empath when it come to lizards but he targets the emotional aspect that makes her decide to fcuk a guy above everything else.

You cannot say it's not basketball because saying MJ sucked at baseball. The skills required for baseball are not the same as basketball.

I've compared sales to game as it requires the same mindset..except in this sense, you are convincing the lizard to buy into sleeping with you as opposed to a person of any gender to purchase whatever you are selling.

There are a lot of advanced salesman on here who cannot make the same transition over to game seamlessly.

So as the previous poster so aptly put, the terms for advanced in any area are exactly the same. It doesn't become magical and it doesn't become less advanced because you can break the composites down into understandable units. Whether you understand them or not, to implement them is a whole different ball game.

There is a certain psychological state that you must enter in combination with a certain energy you must put forth and you really should have this from dusk till dawn. My Detroit Playas mentioned this in the podcast. Game is not something you should switch on and off, it's like an instinct, a conscious action as well as a reflex.

If you compare it to an advanced fighter, an advanced fighter should have great instincts (either natural or developed over diligence and practice) as well as great technical skills and awareness of his environment.

He's in a street brawl. Then he makes sure that he finds the nearest exit and grabs a weapon nearby. He is fighting some kind of grappler? Then he takes the grappler out of their comfort zone but if the grappler gets him in some kind of grip, he is advanced enough to be able to deal with that style of fighting.
A niche fighter who only boxes or only does judo/jujitsu is not an advanced fighter as he may be exposed if he fights someone who does not grapple and puts him in an awkward situation.

I'm using the fighter analogy to show that every skillset that is advanced has a basic premise but it's the experience and fundamentals put together that makes that person advanced. To repeat, just because it seems simple on paper, doesn't mean it can be implemented.

As I said, I don't see an advanced player in existence because I've not read a report of anyone killing it in the tough regions such as India, DC, Toronto.

[XXL]

(05-21-2015 11:43 AM)Lizard King Wrote:  

I made a really bad error during our interaction, and then my mind went elsewhere, and I thought that was a big fuck up, if I was advanced, I would have known not to say that. Instead of saying what I did, I would have agreed and cajoled her, making her feel like her idea was great.

She was saying how she wanted a relationship that lasted forever(or some other crap), and I stupidly said 'all relationships end at some point', then I got carried away and said how the soul mate concept was a myth that holds people back and causes them to be unhappy. She simply could not understand the theories I was expounding, she wasn't very intelligent.

A lesson learned, but it made me realise that avoiding stuff like that would just come naturally to a more advanced guy.

Savvy dude would figure out who she is, what's her background, what's her personality, her state of mind, level of consciousness, etc, to know how to bring up such topic or whether to bring it up at all [cause beside your pure self amusement there's no point in telling about that really]. Basically a lot of empathy [what she feels/thinks] and intuition [what to do to win].

(05-21-2015 10:21 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Sports tend to be very discrete universes of skills. Kobe and Lebron aren't taking their dribbling skills over to MMA and calling it Advanced Basketball.

I made a math analogy before. We can all add, subtract, multiply, and divide. That's basic math.

Geometry and Algebra are significantly different in conception than basic mathematics.

Really advanced math, like Calculus, Differential Equations, Fractals rely on that basic math background, but in addition to that, there's new ways of solving problems that you can't even contemplate with basic math.

Is game more like math or more like basketball?

I feel like it's more like math, but I think the bulk of the argument says it's much more like basketball.

Game is like an art, not science.

Think of successful artists like musicians or actors. Their biggest strength is they were able to capture hearts of their fans. It's their story, charisma, image, personality, creativity, etc. Their technical skills are secondary. Their true skill is creating connection with people who become their fans. This is the difference between Eminem who "opened up" recording songs about his feelings, urges, ups and downs, flaws, etc and some bland rapper who just raps technically perfectly about weed, clothes, cars, and bitches. Both of them might have outstanding rap skills but that alone will not capture hearts of people.

Same with game.

It doesn't matter whether I say X thing at Y point in time or whether I stack validation loops to get her to qualify etc. Those things are like a little cherry on the cake. Advanced player using those tricks alone will not steal a girl from me. But he's likely to do it if he creates fake social proof for himself and connect with my girl better than me by presenting himself [and his story] as something more than just another good guy.

Game is an art.

A lot of it is about creating certain image or brand [real or not]. Like storytelling in marketing. I mean nobody was even thinking about selling water in bottles until someone created a story how healthy it is and started selling it. The same mechanism works in game. That's what get girls into us the most. That's what allows me, a regular dude, to date super hot girl who gets hit on almost everyday by objectively better guys than me.

This is how I see it.

[RockHard]

I think advanced game is getting into really seeing through a woman's actions & motivations. Those everyday lies she tells that become part of her character. She doesn't even see her lies and inconsistencies. There's a mindfuck - when you get to the point with a girl where she's become completely transparent to you and her every action reveals a hidden agenda. Talk about the death of romance.

[Moma]

XXL, Yes! Too many guys try to break the art of empathy into these mathematical terms and it's really an art. Basketball is about rhythm and so is boxing! Stay loose but tight, relaxed but alert!

[Apollo21]

I agree...game all comes down to the way you approach it.

For me, the purpose of game is to find and genuinely connect with
amazing girls on an emotional level. It's not about sleeping with her
at all...since we all know she eventually wants to sleep with somebody.

Why break into the vault when you can access the keys
and walk in?

That's why game is often perceived as difficult because many guys
are so focused on the "bang" and notches, when actually it's very easy if you
focus on quality relationships and genuine emotion instead.

Advanced Game then is all about the quality of your relationships and the level
of discipline you employ while interacting with women.

Sleeping with women is a natural by-product of game. Just like winning a championship
is all about teamwork, discipline and heart...and not about the physical trophy at all.

Play with heart, discipline and skill to develop quality relationships
and you'll have advanced game.

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-21-2015 10:48 PM)fiasco360 Wrote:  

If you get to stick your wiener in more attractive women over time then good for you.

Otherwise don't think about it. Most people I know who think about "levels of game" too much are usually those without much of it in the first place.

There are thousands of threads on this forum. Literally thousands.

If you don't want to participate in this one, join one of those, or start one of your own.

Don't try to stop people from talking in MINE.

Especially don't try to stop me from thinking out loud about something

WIA