Do you think it's obvious in america or in specific parts and areas??
Racism in america
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I'm always MORE conscious of my race when I'm outside the US than when I'm inside. Experienced tremendous racism in Latin America and Mediterranean Europe and Asia. What Latin American or European country is even close to a Black President?
Hugo Chavez is mulatto, basically every Haitian head of state since 1805 has been black... who else... Trujillo in the Dominican had a Haitian grandmother... Evo Morelos and Toledo in Peru are fully indigenous... thats all I've got. I guess the hope would be to see a black president in Brazil, but that is very unlikely to happen. I used to live in Virginia, it was pretty god damn racist...
Quote: (02-12-2009 10:01 PM)John Smith Wrote:
I'm always MORE conscious of my race when I'm outside the US than when I'm inside. Experienced tremendous racism in Latin America and Mediterranean Europe and Asia. What Latin American or European country is even close to a Black President?
There is lots of racism embedded in the American psyche, but the difference between America and many other countries is that America it has long been recognized and confronted as a social problem. In many countries, there has been no equivalent of a Martin Luther King. I hear there is a small black indigenous minority in Argentina, but the majority of the white Argentines don't acknowledge them. Their numbers are small and they don't have much of a political voice. Large parts of America are redneck as hell, but you can choose to live somewhere with more progressive minded people and you can still do pretty good as a black person in America if you got the smarts and the drive to do so, as Barack Obama has proven. I'm not sure I'm ready to say America is more or less racist than say Europe for example, because the racism is of a different form. For example, you might see more blacks in prominent political positions in America, which you don't see in France, yet in France, I see a lot more intermarriage between Africans and French than I see between blacks and whites in America. And I think you are often judged by your nationality primarily in Europe. Europeans will see me as American first and black second. Whereas I get the feeling in America blacks can often be seen as black first, American second.
Tell me some details about your experiences. I'm planning on going to Latin America this year. Where did you experience the racism and what happened? I'm black. I've been to Mediterranean Europe. Had no problems in Italy whatsoever. I had met up with 2 hostel mates who were white females, we decided to hang out that night. The white American tourists were staring at me like hell for hanging out with 2 white girls. I recognized them by their shorts and white socks pulled up. This was in Cinque Terre which is flush with American tourists. Other than that incident, I didn't feel my race was any issue in Italy and when it was, it was from Americans.
I went to Barcelona. I did sense some weird vibes there. Spain is probably one of the more racist countries in Europe. I've heard Madrid is not fun for black people.
As for Asia, I didn't have any bad experiences when I went to Thailand. I did get the odd stare here and there, but they weren't mean stares, more like curiosity looks, but even that only happened a few times and Thais are some of the most nice and hospitable people you will meet. Haven't been anywhere else in Asia. I have a buddy who is black and moved to Japan because he married a Japanese woman. He loves it there and it doesn't sound like he is complaining about being black in Japan.
As for Latin America, only been to Mexico. Haven't run into anything too bad. But when I went, I was traveling with a couple of Latin women, and they were the white skinned variety of Latin women that are so prized in Latin America so I was attracting some looks from jealous Mexican guys. But beyond some headlong glances, and a few jokes like, "estan tu esposas?" nothing else.
I'd like to hear your experiences. I'm thinking of some time setting up a travel site just for black guys to talk about stuff that is particular to us. Because our experience is going to be different. As a black dude, I would never set foot in Moscow, because of the extreme racism in Russia, but white dudes seem to all enjoy Russia. Rick Steve's travel guides just aren't going to give a complete picture for dudes like us.
I am Indian btw, so as an African American you were clearly a foreigner in Latin America, but occasionally they though I was a local and were clearly less friendly with me compared to other white people I was traveling with.
Italy was just terribly unfriendly, and got tons of mean looks. Barcelona was mediocre.
It depends on the personality to some degree. I'm planning to travel to Mexico in the near future so I'll let you know then.
You rarely see minority professionals in countries outside the US. Non white and non-local people are usually doing low level work. The US is much more mobile socially.
I'm not even going to mention Russia and the Middle East. Their reputations speak for themselves.
Italy was just terribly unfriendly, and got tons of mean looks. Barcelona was mediocre.
It depends on the personality to some degree. I'm planning to travel to Mexico in the near future so I'll let you know then.
You rarely see minority professionals in countries outside the US. Non white and non-local people are usually doing low level work. The US is much more mobile socially.
I'm not even going to mention Russia and the Middle East. Their reputations speak for themselves.
By black president I mean a racial minority being elected in a country in which that minority doesn't dominate the economy. The equivalent just doesn't happen outside the US.
Quote: (03-04-2009 05:43 PM)John Smith Wrote:
By black president I mean a racial minority being elected in a country in which that minority doesn't dominate the economy. The equivalent just doesn't happen outside the US.
Peru had a Japanese president, Fujimoru I think was his name. Though he was corrupt as hell. But I guess that's par for the course in Latin America.
I'm about to embark on a 2 month thing in Latin America next week so I'm trying not to worry about this stuff. I've come to the conclusion that your experience as a traveler is very individual and it's hard to say what you're going to experience based on what someone else says. I can listen to one black dude say he hated Argentina and got nothing but odd stares from everyone, then listen to another and he makes it sound like the women wanted to rape him and find out if everything they heard about the black man's virility is true. So I dunno, I'll just have to find out for myself. Whatever happens, happens. But nontheless, it will be a hell of an experience either way. I can say I am out exploring the world while everyone back home is biting their nails worried about the value of their stock portfolios.
ps - I hadn't heard of the middle east being racist, unless it's against Jews. As for Russia, I wouldn't go there if you gave me a free five star all-inclusive vacation.
Either way, I admire your adventurism. Unless life and limb are threatened, racism is not a good excuse not to try out a new country.
Either way it will be a good learning experience. I wish you all the best-keep us updated on your travels.
The Middle East is very racist against South Asians. Every part of the world has their own target race that they dislike, depending on how prevalent they are in the country. Sometimes someone may be an oddity rather than receive racism.
Either way, the US is one of the few countries where anyone can be accepted as a national regardless of their ethnic background.
Either way it will be a good learning experience. I wish you all the best-keep us updated on your travels.
The Middle East is very racist against South Asians. Every part of the world has their own target race that they dislike, depending on how prevalent they are in the country. Sometimes someone may be an oddity rather than receive racism.
Either way, the US is one of the few countries where anyone can be accepted as a national regardless of their ethnic background.
I was out with a girl last weekend who told me, dead-serious, that "Black people really don't use computers."
You get a couple drinks in a SWPL girl and she'll say some interesting things.
You get a couple drinks in a SWPL girl and she'll say some interesting things.
Racism is there in every part of the world be it America or any other place. I completely agree with John Smith as every part of the world have there own target race whom they dislike. Racism puts a bad mark on society and sometimes it is you who encourage it when you are at your place and sometimes you have to face it when you are at a particular place. I can't understand why mankind is wasting it's energy in such stupid things.
I used to date this Australian chick (I'm Indian btw) and she told me she wasn't racist but she would say a lot of racist things to me and think nothing of it. I would call her out on it and tell her that what she said is pretty racist and she would argue with me about it.
Quote: (02-12-2009 10:01 PM)John Smith Wrote:
I'm always MORE conscious of my race when I'm outside the US than when I'm inside. Experienced tremendous racism in Latin America and Mediterranean Europe and Asia. What Latin American or European country is even close to a Black President?
I think in Brazil it's more classism than racism. But then again, like in the US, a lot of Black people are poor. I guess it's also a little bit of classism in a way in the US too. That kind of sounded a little racist itself, but it's true.
I don't like black girls.
Does that make me racist?
Does that make me racist?
In most countries - including the US - everyone is racist but will treat most people as an individual.
For instance I have some pretty racist views of blacks as a whole and would never move into a black majority neighborhood - but I would have no problem being the best of friends with a black guy who was intelligent and professional and wouldn't mind at all if my daughter married such a guy and would welcome him into the family.
That doesn't stop me from recognizing the plain truth about most blacks. Am I racist? I think I'm just honest. In my travels I find most people are like that - they are racist towards groups but that all breaks down when it comes to the individual, which seems like a perfectly rational attitude to take.
For instance I have some pretty racist views of blacks as a whole and would never move into a black majority neighborhood - but I would have no problem being the best of friends with a black guy who was intelligent and professional and wouldn't mind at all if my daughter married such a guy and would welcome him into the family.
That doesn't stop me from recognizing the plain truth about most blacks. Am I racist? I think I'm just honest. In my travels I find most people are like that - they are racist towards groups but that all breaks down when it comes to the individual, which seems like a perfectly rational attitude to take.
Racism in the US is nothing compared to Russia. There are beheadings and shit. :O
Quote: (07-31-2009 09:28 PM)georgec Wrote:
In most countries - including the US - everyone is racist but will treat most people as an individual.
For instance I have some pretty racist views of blacks as a whole and would never move into a black majority neighborhood - but I would have no problem being the best of friends with a black guy who was intelligent and professional and wouldn't mind at all if my daughter married such a guy and would welcome him into the family.
That doesn't stop me from recognizing the plain truth about most blacks. Am I racist? I think I'm just honest. In my travels I find most people are like that - they are racist towards groups but that all breaks down when it comes to the individual, which seems like a perfectly rational attitude to take.
Black guy here - Not sure what things you're referring to that make you dislike blacks as a whole. But I guess as long as you have the ability to judge people as individuals, that's good enough for me. My suspicion is that you have issues with the black underclass, and hopefully not the entirety of the black race. I don't like the white underclass(trailer trash hicks), but don't hold anything against whites who aren't like that. So perhaps it's an issue of class and not race?
I live in Mexico now, and as an Indian (sub continental)-American it's very interesting to see the resentment pushed my way by the white mexicans who usually look down on dark skinned native americans but now have to put up with a unapologetic American who makes 4x their salary and is educated and speaks good spanish.
Quote: (08-05-2009 02:09 AM)speakeasy Wrote:
Quote: (07-31-2009 09:28 PM)georgec Wrote:
In most countries - including the US - everyone is racist but will treat most people as an individual.
For instance I have some pretty racist views of blacks as a whole and would never move into a black majority neighborhood - but I would have no problem being the best of friends with a black guy who was intelligent and professional and wouldn't mind at all if my daughter married such a guy and would welcome him into the family.
That doesn't stop me from recognizing the plain truth about most blacks. Am I racist? I think I'm just honest. In my travels I find most people are like that - they are racist towards groups but that all breaks down when it comes to the individual, which seems like a perfectly rational attitude to take.
Black guy here - Not sure what things you're referring to that make you dislike blacks as a whole. But I guess as long as you have the ability to judge people as individuals, that's good enough for me. My suspicion is that you have issues with the black underclass, and hopefully not the entirety of the black race. I don't like the white underclass(trailer trash hicks), but don't hold anything against whites who aren't like that. So perhaps it's an issue of class and not race?
For it not to be racism he would have to say that he hold white underclass in the same regard which that does not appear to be the case.
Quite frankly I'm tired of hearing about racism. I firmly believe that all people are racist to a certain degree. But we're able to look at characteristics of the individual and supercede our overall racist views. There will never be a cure for racism.
Quote: (08-10-2009 01:19 PM)Trotter Wrote:
There will never be a cure for racism.
I think the cure is simple. Simply having friends or close people in your life that are of different races. People that come with the view that "there will always be racism" say it as if racism is some inborn trait, when in fact it is socially learned. Young kids, like kindergartners when thrown together with kids of other races don't cluster themselves by race or care about it. Somewhere between that and adulthood, they pick of views from parents of the older generation. Racism will die at some point in the future if each generation is just a bit less racist than the last one.
Quote: (08-05-2009 02:09 AM)speakeasy Wrote:
Quote: (07-31-2009 09:28 PM)georgec Wrote:
In most countries - including the US - everyone is racist but will treat most people as an individual.
For instance I have some pretty racist views of blacks as a whole and would never move into a black majority neighborhood - but I would have no problem being the best of friends with a black guy who was intelligent and professional and wouldn't mind at all if my daughter married such a guy and would welcome him into the family.
That doesn't stop me from recognizing the plain truth about most blacks. Am I racist? I think I'm just honest. In my travels I find most people are like that - they are racist towards groups but that all breaks down when it comes to the individual, which seems like a perfectly rational attitude to take.
Black guy here - Not sure what things you're referring to that make you dislike blacks as a whole. But I guess as long as you have the ability to judge people as individuals, that's good enough for me. My suspicion is that you have issues with the black underclass, and hopefully not the entirety of the black race. I don't like the white underclass(trailer trash hicks), but don't hold anything against whites who aren't like that. So perhaps it's an issue of class and not race?
Great point, and great question. It's true that it's unfounded to base opinions on the minority. However...is there a non-racial, logical conclusion that is allowed to be drawn by any faction of society based on their experiences of another?
If the majority of your experiences at car dealerships are negative, are you wrong for drawing a broad conclusion? Maybe. Is your opinion well founded? Probably. Especially if you've shared your findings with a large number of other people. The odds that you and everyone you've talked with stumbled upon the minority repeatedly begin to decrease.
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