[Shortest Straw]

(01-15-2015 01:34 AM)Lucky Wrote:  

The logic here is sound. How can gender be a choice but not sexuality? I suppose because it doesn't fit the narrative. I watched a few minutes of the interview, I downloaded the transcript to read later.

I really should stawp poasting because I'm not really adding much new, but: The core rebuttal to this and the converse argument is that both are black-and-white thinking. I'm pretty sure that if both sides stepped back from their extreme positions and thought about it, they'd agree that there is wiring and fluidity in both aspects. The left is complaining that people have been shamed for sexual orientation, while the manosphere is complaining that heterosexual males are being shamed for their identity, and boys are being discouraged from developing their masculine heterosexuality.

It's common for people to argue the extreme position in order to effect change. For example, according to Roosh, I'm a girlie man. Yeah, I changed diapers and pushed strollers. However, it is a pretty heartless father that leaves his child on the sidewalk, or crying in bed, because he refuses to push a stroller or change a diaper.

I don't think the manosphere advocates murdering gay men, and I don't think very many even imply it is entirely a lifestyle choice. I think Roosh does a good job of clarifying that he doesn't care what gay men do, but rather he is tired of being shamed for being a straight man. The voices of the manosphere ought to further clarify their position, because it is easy to misinterpret as gay bashing.

I frankly think most people feel roughly as the following from The Simpsons:
Gay Pride marchers: We're here! We're queer! Get used to it!
Lisa: We know! We ARE used to it!
Marchers: Hmph!

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(01-15-2015 12:12 PM)Shortest Straw Wrote:  

(01-15-2015 01:34 AM)Lucky Wrote:  

The logic here is sound. How can gender be a choice but not sexuality? I suppose because it doesn't fit the narrative. I watched a few minutes of the interview, I downloaded the transcript to read later.

I really should stawp poasting because I'm not really adding much new, but: The core rebuttal to this and the converse argument is that both are black-and-white thinking. I'm pretty sure that if both sides stepped back from their extreme positions and thought about it, they'd agree that there is wiring and fluidity in both aspects. The left is complaining that people have been shamed for sexual orientation, while the manosphere is complaining that heterosexual males are being shamed for their identity, and boys are being discouraged from developing their masculine heterosexuality.

It's common for people to argue the extreme position in order to effect change. For example, according to Roosh, I'm a girlie man. Yeah, I changed diapers and pushed strollers. However, it is a pretty heartless father that leaves his child on the sidewalk, or crying in bed, because he refuses to push a stroller or change a diaper.

I don't think the manosphere advocates murdering gay men, and I don't think very many even imply it is entirely a lifestyle choice. I think Roosh does a good job of clarifying that he doesn't care what gay men do, but rather he is tired of being shamed for being a straight man. The voices of the manosphere ought to further clarify their position, because it is easy to misinterpret as gay bashing.

I frankly think most people feel roughly as the following from The Simpsons:
Gay Pride marchers: We're here! We're queer! Get used to it!
Lisa: We know! We ARE used to it!
Marchers: Hmph!

http://www.theonion.com/articles/gayprid...-gays,351/
Gay-Pride Parade Sets Mainstream Acceptance Of Gays Back 50 Years
NEWS • Patriotism • Trends • Gay & Lesbian • Parties • ISSUE 44•26 ISSUE 37•15 • Apr 25, 2001
WEST HOLLYWOOD, CA–

Quote:

The mainstream acceptance of gays and lesbians, a hard-won civil-rights victory gained through decades of struggle against prejudice and discrimination, was set back at least 50 years Saturday in the wake of the annual Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade.

"I'd always thought gays were regular people, just like you and me, and that the stereotype of homosexuals as hedonistic, sex-crazed deviants was just a destructive myth," said mother of four Hannah Jarrett, 41, mortified at the sight of 17 tanned and oiled boys cavorting in jock straps to a throbbing techno beat on a float shaped like an enormous phallus. "Boy, oh, boy, was I wrong."

The parade, organized by the Los Angeles Gay And Lesbian And Bisexual And Transvestite And Transgender Alliance (LAGALABATATA), was intended to "promote acceptance, tolerance, and equality for the city's gay community." Just the opposite, however, was accomplished, as the event confirmed the worst fears of thousands of non-gay spectators, cementing in their minds a debauched and distorted image of gay life straight out of the most virulent right-wing hate literature.

Among the parade sights and sounds that did inestimable harm to the gay-rights cause: a group of obese women in leather biker outfits passing out clitoris-shaped lollipops to horrified onlookers; a man in military uniform leading a submissive masochist, clad in diapers and a baby bonnet, around on a dog leash; several Hispanic dancers in rainbow wigs and miniskirts performing "humping" motions on a mannequin dressed as the Pope; and a dozen gyrating drag queens in see-through dresses holding penis-shaped beer bottles that appeared to spurt ejaculation-like foam when shaken and poured onto passersby.

Timothy Orosco, 51, a local Walgreens manager whose store is on the parade route, changed his attitude toward gays as a result of the event.

"They kept chanting things like, 'We're here, we're queer, get used to it!' and 'Hey, hey, we're gay, we're not going to go away!'" Orosco said. "All I can say is, I was used to it, but now, although I'd never felt this way before, I wish they would go away."

Allison Weber, 43, an El Segundo marketing consultant, also had her perceptions and assumptions about gays challenged by the parade.

"My understanding was that gay people are just like everybody else–decent, hard-working people who care about their communities and have loving, committed relationships," Weber said. "But, after this terrifying spectacle, I don't want them teaching my kids or living in my neighborhood."

The parade's influence extended beyond L.A.'s borders, altering the attitudes of straight people across America. Footage of the event was featured on telecasts of The 700 Club as "proof of the sin-steeped world of homosexuality." A photo spread in Monday's USA Today chronicled many of the event's vulgar displays–understood by gays to be tongue-in-cheek "high camp"–which horrified previously tolerant people from coast to coast.

Dr. Henry Thorne, a New York University history professor who has written several books about the gay-rights movement, explained the misunderstanding.

"After centuries of oppression as an 'invisible' segment of society, gays, emboldened by the 1969 Stonewall uprising, took to the streets in the early '70s with an 'in-your-face' attitude. Confronting the worst prejudices of a world that didn't accept them, they fought back against these prejudices with exaggeration and parody, reclaiming their enemies' worst stereotypes about them and turning them into symbols of gay pride," Thorne said. "Thirty years later, gays have won far greater acceptance in the world at large, but they keep doing this stuff anyway."

"Mostly, I think, because it's really fun," Thorne added.

The Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade, Thorne noted, is part of a decades-old gay-rights tradition. But, for mainstream heterosexuals unfamiliar with irony and the reclamation of stereotypes for the purpose of exploding them, the parade resembled an invasion of grotesque outer-space mutants, bent on the destruction of the human race.

"I have a cousin who's a gay, and he seemed like a decent enough guy to me," said Iowa City, IA, resident Russ Linder, in Los Angeles for a weekend sales seminar. "Now, thanks to this parade, I realize what a freak he's been all along. Gays are all sick, immoral perverts."

Parade organizers vowed to make changes in the wake of the negative reaction among heterosexuals.

"I knew it. I said we needed 100 dancers on the 'Show Us Your Ass' float, but everybody insisted that 50 would be enough," said Lady Labia, spokesperson for LAGALABATATA. "Next year, we're really going to give those breeders something to look at.

[Huxley Badkin]

(01-13-2015 06:18 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

Just the video link:
http://vimeo.com/116015349

Thank you! Video wouldn't load on the original page.

Outstanding stuff too. Listened to the first half whilst preparing some food, then sat down to watch the rest whilst enjoying my supper. Compulsive viewing, as they say, and did not drag at all - I would highly recommend settling in with some refreshments and watching the entire exchange.

Maybe I'm being naive, but it didn't seem like a set up either. It's possible that this chick was actually arguing in good faith, which is probably a first for a feminist type. Either way, great publicity, and Roosh's message came across loud and clear.

That bit towards the end about the short hair really got under her skin as well, which was hilarious. I would bang, Roosh could bang - no doubt about it. Ha!

[Ocelot]

(01-15-2015 12:12 PM)Shortest Straw Wrote:  

(01-15-2015 01:34 AM)Lucky Wrote:  

The logic here is sound. How can gender be a choice but not sexuality? I suppose because it doesn't fit the narrative. I watched a few minutes of the interview, I downloaded the transcript to read later.

I really should stawp poasting because I'm not really adding much new, but: The core rebuttal to this and the converse argument is that both are black-and-white thinking. I'm pretty sure that if both sides stepped back from their extreme positions and thought about it, they'd agree that there is wiring and fluidity in both aspects. The left is complaining that people have been shamed for sexual orientation, while the manosphere is complaining that heterosexual males are being shamed for their identity, and boys are being discouraged from developing their masculine heterosexuality.

I wouldn't; I'd go a stage further and say that, unlike homosexuality, gender does not even exist. Gender is a recent invention, used to describe the sphere of human behaviours feminists and their ilk wish to interfere with. It was a politically loaded term from its inception and provides absolutely zero insight into human behaviour and interactions.

The discussion of which human behaviours are perceived as masculine and feminine, and whether they have biological origins, or are socially enforced etc. is an interesting one, but one feminists are neither interested in, not capable of providing.

Incidentally, enigma's point about the logic used in the interview is correct, you can't say gender is 100% biological but sexual orientation is influenced by the environment, whilst also saying that they're the same thing. The truth is that they're not the same - homosexuality is real, gender is not.

[Cr33pin]

I thought Roosh handled that like a boss. I also thought that the woman interviewer was not that bad, when I first saw the title Roosh being interviewed by a feminist I pictured it being much worse. I though she was fair in her questions and was not really trying to paint a bad picture of Roosh. The last 20 or 30 minutes of the interview was my favorite.

[Slim Shady]

^ Her actions after the skype session was over however point to either of 2 things:

1) She was being extremely patronizing, and just letting this crazy mentally ill misogynist talk. This is further supported by the comments made in the article that she has written to go with the video.

2) She did start to see the light while speaking with Roosh, but the post scene was a defense mechanism show for her feminist friends and white night orbiters. Her mind is now truly confused and we have got her thinking. This could lead to an enlightenment.

[jimukr104]

^^^or she was just doing her job as objectively as possible for her. She is a feminist so she isn't going to agree with most of Roosh says. Also she didn't understand a lot about what Roosh was talking about anyway.

She is a feminist who isn't a hater..I respect that. TBH its the ultra feminist male hater that we dislike NOT the ones like her who CLAIM they respect every ones right.

[Slim Shady]

I bet she's reading this thread...even though the forum didn't come up in their interview.

[Kamikaze]

Listened to the whole thing. A lot of gold, but this is one of the best things I've heard or read around these parts in a while:

Quote:

[Angela]: You mentioned in our email that your orgasm is of primary importance-
[Roosh]: Damn straight.
[Angela]: And that you don't go down on women. Is this true?
[Roosh]: Right.
*Angela laughs*
[Angela]: Can I ask why?
[Roosh]: Because nature has deemed the male orgasm to be more important. If right now a magic cloud of gas surrounds the earth and infected girls and prevented them from ever having a female orgasm again, the human species would go on. But if this cloud of gas only affected men and prevented the male orgasm, what would happen? The human species is done. It's freaking done. Therefore nature, not me, nature has declared that the male orgasm is essential to life! To life! But the female orgasm is like cherry on top. You know? If she gets it, hey that's great! Mmm yummy. But if not, it doesn't matter. So I'm just...I believe in what nature has said about it. And they said the male orgasm is super duper important.

Encouragement for maniacal bio-terrorists notwithstanding, this is some absolute motherfucking gold I'll be using on every girl from now until forever.

In case you didn't catch it, lowering a girl's expectations is step one to getting her to achieve orgasm. It cannot be your goal, or else those difficult fringe girls with their hamsters running wild won't let them relax and enjoy the moment. Presenting them with this doomsday scenario in a playful way disarms them and lets them know you are seeking your own pleasure. At the very least, if getting the girl to O is your goal, it plants plausible deniability... you're just eating her out because you like how her pussy tastes or looks or feels. And of course, girls should be very eager to please. It's a big blow to their self-esteem if they can't get you to finish.

Masterful reverse psychology.

[Brian Boru]

[Bacchus]

New interview with Angela confirmed a few things.

http://thehairpin.com/2015/02/the-battle...la-washko/

1. She's reading the forum.

Quote:

(Though my response to this has been misinterpreted by his community as me being offended. But that's ok. Most of the conversation within Roosh's forum has been about assigning me a numerical value, how badly I supposedly want the D, speculations about my assistant, some interesting conversation about this as a precedent for future civil conversations between disagreeing communities online, and whether or not his forum members would bang me. Verdict: overall—maybe with long hair.)

2. She has yet to contact one of Roosh's conquests.

Quote:

It took a long time to work out the strategy for the “how” part of finding women that have had encounters with Roosh V. I've just started the process of looking. No one has come forward yet. I am hoping to use opportunities like this to distribute my call for women. I've been posting on the Craigslist pages of cities Roosh has spent time in. I've also posted on Reddit. I've been collecting images of him with women online (which are somewhat rare actually, and mostly from when he was younger) and have been trying to track down women from those photos. I intend to email authors of the hate-essays that have been written about him in Iceland and Denmark to see if they will distribute my call. I'm also going to make a trek to Washington, DC (where Roosh got his start), and go into places he may have frequented with photos of him and ask around. I'm also in the process of sending WANTED-style posters to friends in Denmark, Poland, Finland, Iceland, and elsewhere to try and distribute the word.

I know it will be difficult, and I know that some women may be embarrassed at having been duped by a seduction author/pickup artist and as Roosh rightly concluded: many women are likely not interested in sharing the details of their personal sex lives with me, even if made completely anonymous. Not everyone wants their private lives made public. I understand that. Also, all of Roosh's work could be part of an elaborate and performative mythology, so I may not find anyone because there literally isn't anyone to find.

Bonus, this illustration:





And, Angela, since you're reading this thread, here's some objective science for you about hair length. It's under hair quality:

http://books.google.com/books?id=esDW3xT...&q&f=false

[MMX2010]

She describes, but doesn't describe. What speculations about your assistant, and how accurate do you feel those speculations are?

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Props to Roosh for the way in which he handled the interview. For a split second I thought she would accept Roosh doesn't hate women but those hopes were quickly quashed by the accompanying post on her blog.

[JoyStick]

It's creepy that she is still on a mission to track down bitches that Roosh banged.

[Black Knight]

Quote:

It took a long time to work out the strategy for the “how” part of finding women that have had encounters with Roosh V. I've just started the process of looking. No one has come forward yet. I am hoping to use opportunities like this to distribute my call for women. I've been posting on the Craigslist pages of cities Roosh has spent time in. I've also posted on Reddit.

I've been collecting images of him with women online (which are somewhat rare actually, and mostly from when he was younger) and have been trying to track down women from those photos. I intend to email authors of the hate-essays that have been written about him in Iceland and Denmark to see if they will distribute my call. I'm also going to make a trek to Washington, DC (where Roosh got his start), and go into places he may have frequented with photos of him and ask around. I'm also in the process of sending WANTED-style posters to friends in Denmark, Poland, Finland, Iceland, and elsewhere to try and distribute the word.

But remember guys, saying hello to a woman at the mall is "creepy"

Edit: Dammit, Joystick beat me to it

[Quintus Curtius]

^^^^

So, let me get this straight. She is hunting down girls who were intimate with Roosh?

So that she can "interview" them?






Ah...can you say...invasion of privacy? Stalking?

Sounds like someone has a serious case of wanting Roosh sex by proxy.


.

[Yatagan]

Just so you know Angela, I'd bang you with or without long hair.

[Deluge]

Quote:

It took a long time to work out the strategy for the “how” part of finding women that have had encounters with Roosh V. I've just started the process of looking. No one has come forward yet. I am hoping to use opportunities like this to distribute my call for women. I've been posting on the Craigslist pages of cities Roosh has spent time in. I've also posted on Reddit.

I've been collecting images of him with women online (which are somewhat rare actually, and mostly from when he was younger) and have been trying to track down women from those photos. I intend to email authors of the hate-essays that have been written about him in Iceland and Denmark to see if they will distribute my call. I'm also going to make a trek to Washington, DC (where Roosh got his start), and go into places he may have frequented with photos of him and ask around. I'm also in the process of sending WANTED-style posters to friends in Denmark, Poland, Finland, Iceland, and elsewhere to try and distribute the word.

This girl is obsessed, literally obsessed. But I'm not surprised since she calls herself an "artist". I've dated a lot of artist, creative and musician girls and almost all have been nuts in one way or the other and after reading this I have no doubt she is too. Bipolar, depression, BPD, anxiety, narcissistic personality, take your pick. Any person willing to fly to another city and put up Wanted posters looking for people who've had sex with someone she's never even met, needs to increase the dosage on her meds.

Also, there's a good chance any woman willing to cooperate for an interview would be a "jilted" lover. Some girl who got angry when she found out about Roosh's writing for instance.

[Muk]

"The parade, organized by the Los Angeles Gay And Lesbian And Bisexual And Transvestite And Transgender Alliance (LAGALABATATA)"
LMAO!! Love the Onion!

[Bacchus]

I know it's off topic, but this was the banner ad on the Hairpin interview with Angela.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

http://thehairpin.com/2015/02/the-battle...la-washko/

She has a whole text on it and the WANTED POSTER is fun - she really wants one woman to come forward and say how Roosh fucked her and what her experiences were.

The problem is that women rarely do want that kind of publicity - even celebrities who have fucked thousands - even with them women don't like to be put in the limelight like that.

   

Complete text: - I'll highlight the interesting parts and put up my comments next:

Quote:

The Battle of the Sexes: An Interview with Angela Washko

When I first encountered the work of artist Angela Washko, she was playing World of Warcraft on her own terms. Instead of slaying dragons, she was creating an artwork by way of social experiment: wandering around inside the game, she would use her avatar to initiate discussions with other players about feminism. “Would you mind telling me how you define feminism or what makes a feminist? ” she would type. The responses would come: “I believe feminism is being a girl expressing hormones a certain way differing from a man”; “The same way you define maleism… its not fucking real”; and so on, while the characters jumped and danced and wiggled, and WoW’s melodramatic music swelled in my ears, giving the chat conversations a bizarre gravitas.

In her latest project, Washko is once again taking feminism to a place where it isn’t welcome but sorely needed: the land of pickup artists. (Yes - because as we know we sorely need for women and feminism to permeate and control all spaces - feminazis won't be satisfied until Footballers run in pink jerseys around and all female Coaches command burly men around.)For those unfamiliar, online pickup artist communities are theoretically spaces where men can learn the skills and gain the confidence necessary to pick up women. In reality, many of these forums, sites, and groups regurgitate the same misogynistic ideas.

As in all communities, pickup artists have their leaders. One of them is Roosh V., a blogger, self-described “love tourist,” and author of at least a dozen Bang books that claim to tell readers how to bang (or not) women, often by country (e.g. Bang Ukraine, Don’t Bang Denmark). In 2012, he was listed in a report of hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Washko began reading Roosh V.’s writings in 2013 and became “obsessed.” (Yeah - no shit - if a woman admits to becoming obsessed - then this is borderline psychotic anyway.)She devised a plan: Roosh talks publicly about his conquests, so why not interview the women who’ve slept with him to get their perspectives on what it was like? Washko has only just begun her quest to find these women.

In the meantime, the project has already taken on a life of its own—she’s already had a two-hour Skype interview with Roosh himself. In it, he explains why he’s not a pickup artist, tells her she would look “more attractive” with long hair, and expounds on his sexist worldview: “By removing the dependency of women on men you’ve unleashed a can of worms where women no longer have to try. You know? They don’t have to be good, virtuous, noble, elegant, feminine.” Instead, he laments, they now get tattoos, burp, and gain weight. The horror!

Washko and I spoke over email about the experience of interviewing Roosh, how to go about finding women he’s banged, and the usefulness of empathy.

What was it like talking to him?
In your piece in Animal, you explain the process of falling down the Roosh V. “rabbit hole” and realizing you should interview him as part of this project. What fascinated you so much about his writings?

There are many things. Roosh is constantly working on his seduction processes in public. I actually admire how he puts himself in a position of vulnerability by writing with great immediacy and gives nearly equal real estate to his failures as he does his triumphs. He advocates for a pickup process that involves a high rate of failure and working toward overcoming fear of public humiliation, and I can definitely see the appeal for his audience. (No one advocates for a high rate of failure, though 90% is not really high if you approach women btw. 18-28 who are hot. It would be similar to a girl approaching 10 hottest guys and asking them whether they would like to be in a LTR with them (sex is no proxy here). There is no appeal to the audience due to this - by the way - there are guys out there who convey Game much better than Roosh. Roosh's strength lies more in his interesting writing, his social commentaries, creating platforms & a community for men. Thre are other guys out there who have made Game their forte and who can put across seduction more effectively. In our community we have Rollo Tomassi from Rationl Male who is monogamous and happily married for 17+ years and puts out a ton of valuable content that many men love - it does not really matter whether you have fucked 300 girls or 1 wife. Truth is recognized either way.)

I also became very interested in thinking about how a lot of Roosh's writing advocated for more feminine, traditional, submissive women and more masculine, dominant, leadership-oriented men could be approached from a queer theory perspective, in which these are parts of a spectrum of possibilities in which none are violently imposed. Roosh was very opposed to this idea in our interview. Ideologically, we couldn't disagree with each other more. He told me I need to stop being lazy and grow out my hair for the men in my life and that it is my biological imperative to quit working.

If looking at his texts from 2007 and 2014 individually you see him contradict himself (especially as he attempts to position himself farther away from PUA rhetoric), but as a chronology you clearly see someone who is working through a practice in front of an audience that has supported him and given him a platform to institutionalize it — through his books, the Roosh Method, and the websites he runs, including Return of Kings (a manosphere blog) and the recently initiated Reaxxion (a pro #gamergate support site for men).

Roosh's background in industrial microbiology became quite interesting to me as well, and though he told me it has had no effect on his writing, I do wonder if somewhere it impacted his system of treating seduction as a methodology that can be broken down into numbers and pure strategy (see the Roosh Program), and is backed by "science, logic and reason" and the idea that all women at a base level have the same instinctual behaviors.

I got caught up in the fact that Roosh still thinks women are inherently emotional and lack the ability to process and produce logic, facts, and reason when one might argue that Roosh writes and acts quite emotionally. He writes entirely from his own personal experiences (something women writers are often criticized for) and rarely draws from statistical evidence, though occasionally he makes charts and graphs to elaborate on his personal discoveries (often confirmed by his insular community). People who ask questions about the lack of concrete evidence for these claims are supposedly living in bubbles where they can't see objective reality and are dismissed as insular, overly educated, unrealistic feminists or Social Justice Warriors (SJWs—term borrowed from #gamergate movement). In our interview, Roosh stated that he has a more objective worldview than other people because he has lived (however briefly) in 30 countries and slept with women in most of them. I have become a bit obsessed with these lines of thinking in his practice, though I don't feel like I can aptly explain that yet.

Without betraying Roosh's trust, can you give any more details about how you convinced him to do an interview—a Skype one at that—with you?

Sure. It was through negotiation!

I noticed that he was aware of my project because he posted a link to its status as a finalist for the Rhizome Internet Art Microgrant on his Twitter account. I attempted to engage him there but didn't have any luck. I figured if he did indeed look me up (which he claims he did not bother to do) he would be immediately turned off by my feminist practice. He gets a great deal of hate reportage, and though he has written about the benefits of his microcelebrity, the content of his work is a bit of an initial game-killer. More hate pieces ultimately don't help his sexual pursuits.

washko-email-w-rooshIn my first email, I followed the protocols for emailing him as a woman outlined on the FAQ section of his personal website, sending a full body and face pic. (Delicious - she really sent a full body pic? That's really funny.) I wrote that I was working on a project interviewing women who have had sexual exchanges with him and that it would be a better project if I could get his feedback on it and ask him a few questions in an interview over Skype. I also told him I was legitimately interested in how he ended up writing BANG, his methods, and the women he bangs. I mentioned that in my projects I tend to not necessarily take a dogmatic approach and am more interested in the complexities and nuances in his practice than whipping up another "Roosh is a fucking shitty misogynist asshole" piece. He didn't care about any of those things.

In his response email he asked basically: what's in it for him? If I were the New York Times or a big press outlet he would be interested, but he stated that his audience is already way bigger than whomever would see my work (at this point I still don't know if he has ever looked up coverage on my work) and I would reap all the benefits and there was zero reward for him in doing it. At the end of this email he stated that unless I have hot girlfriends in Poland or Ukraine that he could potentially sleep with he had to politely decline. "No hard feelings."

I agreed that my audience is small and said that even if my work gets discussed on major media outlets, I'm not writing for them, so it's probably different. I then suggested that the work is already scheduled ultimately to be shown in gallery and museum contexts and that being shown in a museum may make him more culturally relevant and bang-able. I also offered him the full amount of my Rhizome grant (only $500, so not too much). I had the feeling he wouldn't take the money because it might be emasculating.

He responded saying the museum sweetened the deal...but that it sounds like a lot of work and he's busy with his video projects and moving to another country and finding a new apartment there. So he offered to answer a few questions over email and then put a video together on his end, stating that the quality on Skype would be horrible.

I then offered to send him a contract to make a deal about transfer of the money. I made several suggestions to cut down correspondence time to adhere to his busy schedule and also suggested that we're not in a rush so he can do this at a time that works best for him. (Meanwhile he apparently has no awareness that I am teaching two classes at a research university, am enrolled in a graduate program, and am maintaining my own professional art practice and traveling the world to speak at conferences and install exhibitions and may have schedule restrictions myself). I also thanked him repeatedly and wished him luck apartment hunting.

He responded to me that he "does not want the money." He also told me that making video is very time consuming (as a video maker myself, I am already quite aware of that), so he prefers to make a video for me that is 10 minutes long. He suggested that I send him questions via email first and then pick the ones I like best to go in his video. He told me to send him 1 or 2 questions per email at a time and that if he sees too many he will postpone.

I proceeded to read his text on how to deal with mainstream media, which clued me into his resistance to a live interview, which would have been much less time consuming for him overall. I do understand his desire to not be misconstrued or taken out of context, having also been on his end, doing a Skype interview with a news outlet that has selectively included and omitted sections to support an agenda.

I followed the format and sent him 1 or 2 questions per session. When I got one response from him, I would proceed to send him the next set of questions. He answered quite candidly and thoroughly for the most part. At the end of the process I asked him why he submitted himself to my questions in the first place. He wrote that he thought I was sincere about wanting to understand his views (which I am) and that he was enticed by being placed in a museum exhibit. He stated: "I also felt you would treat me fairly (as fairly as a woman could treat me, anyway)." He then asked what I would like from him for the video.

I made a list of my favorite questions/responses. He then offered to go ahead with the Skype interview after all—perhaps because making the video from all of those questions would be more work for him than doing an interview.

diagram_detail01
What was it like talking to him?

Well, I was very nervous—I knew he didn't like to do in-person (video) interviews and has been very critical of being misrepresented or misconstrued by the media in the past. I was very sensitive to this, and even though I disagree with most of what he says and how he operates, I felt a commitment to represent him fairly—so I was nervous to ask questions that would touch on issues for which he gets slammed in the media. This happened for a brief moment when he didn't want me to read a segment of one of his books out loud—but then he let me after I was apologetic and said I would allow him to clarify anything afterward.

He was immediately very performative and groomed his hair and adjusted his lighting to make sure he looked great for the "millions of people" that might see the interview. His performativity made me less nervous and reminded me to go into a more performative and less personal headspace. He mocked me from the beginning, making jokes about how small my audience is compared to his.

I tried to not let it be apparent that it was bothering me (Typical hamster-weakness. Women are so weak mentally that they always have to compare themselves with men. Who cares if you have a smaller audience? The Kardashia have a bigger audience, does it make their viewpoints more valid above Roosh's or my own? Men simply don't give a shit about that often.); I laughed too much throughout the entire interview as a way to deal with the feeling that I was not being respected. My experiences performing as a diplomat for so many years (though avatar-bound) in World of Warcraft and diffusing trolls therein was an essential tool to keeping conversation open despite our differences and I think my nonchalant attitude made it clear that whatever he said would likely not offend me. Some of it became quite comical to me—when he started giving me advice on growing out my hair and making myself more attractive for men, jabbing at my insecurities (my round face in particular). It was just so uncalled for that I had to laugh. (Though my response to this has been misinterpreted by his community as me being offended. (No - it was comical to us too. Game is the ability to talk with a woman and Roosh was simply not interested in seducing you or he would have talked differently. Your hair just makes a common opinion of us a good example-piece. Female weakness being as it is just makes it easy to attack. Though Roosh did not want to "hit" you with that - it's more friendly banter.) But that's ok. Most of the conversation within Roosh's forum has been about assigning me a numerical value, how badly I supposedly want the D, speculations about my assistant, some interesting conversation about this as a precedent for future civil conversations between disagreeing communities online, and whether or not his forum members would bang me. Verdict: overall—maybe with long hair.)

Something that strikes me both here and in your WoW project is your patience and ability to adhere to a set of rules that's not your own. Where does this come from? Is it something you had to consciously develop?

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. If I had to, I'd say this developed from three things:

1. I've been active in artist collectives (most notably Flux Factory) and activist/protest movements. I think being able to adapt, cooperate, and operate in systems that may not be working is important to learning how those systems are set up. It doesn't make sense to dismantle or alter a system until you know it very well. It was only after playing World of Warcraft for many, many years that I was in a position to critique the way it functions. At Flux Factory, learning what it does best and why it operates the way it does was imperative to making the best of my time there. And in protest contexts, there is a sort of surrendering to the greater ideological good, even if you disagree with the tactics or image of the movement.

2. Many of my favorite artists are tactical media artists, culture jammers, and general mischief makers who imitate existing public space and media vernacular to ultimately subvert expectations of the areas where they intervene. Artists like the Yes Men, Rich Pell (and the Center for Post Natural History), Dara Greenwald, Jason Eppink, Ann Hirsch, Institute for Applied Autonomy, Kristoffer Ørum and Anders Bojen, Krzysztof Wodiczo, and Eva and Franco Mattes, among others, have been pretty influential to me at least in the approach to sneaking into existing structures and performing interventions within them. So I am willing to submit myself to systems that I don't agree with or take issue with because it's essential to do that in order really understand them and ultimately create provocations that aren't disingenuous within them.

3. Empathy is incredibly important to me, and I employ it in what I do. I think that (sincere) radical empathy can be a tactical asset.

diagram_pg02
When in your research process did you realize you wanted to try and track down women on the receiving end of Roosh’s advances? I feel like it's one of those things that seems quite obvious but would never have occurred to me.

It was after I finished reading BANG. I was combing through Roosh's website, and after reading his blog entries The British Virgin and Anna, I couldn't help but think about their side of his mythology. I thought it would be nice to have companion texts for his approximations of these women. Then, as I read more and more accounts of Roosh's conquests from his perspective, I felt a call to find women who have been on the other side of his pickup approaches and on the receiving end of his dick to have their experiences and perspectives given some attention...even if they were consistent with his stories. It also stemmed from the desire to break down his performance on the Internet and challenge the myth of objectivity that much of his community clings to, destabilizing his carefully crafted narratives by introducing other complicating voices. [THIS IS WHERE IT BECOMS CREEPY AND "STALKER-ISH". I get it - she wants to find out if Roosh's stories are true. She would have an easier time trying to track down a friend and member of the community who has seen Roosh pull girls. And her attack is becoming more serious in so far that she wants or hopes to find women who have been "tricked" via "manipulative" Game to give away their flower. Meanwhile she ignores the fact that those very same women have been fucking other dudes on a whim anyway. Maybe she wants to prove that Roosh is total fake and all his experiences were concocted while sitting in front of his computer and jerking off to porn? Around here in the 'sphere a man's word is his life - like in the old days. A little bit of embellishing is acceptable but not lying or big-ballerism. If she read more 'sphere sites and the forum, she would know about this. ]

Part of your work seems to be this kind of persistent insertion of feminism into blatantly anti-feminist spaces. Is this something you specifically set out to do with your art?

I think one of the ongoing problems that feminism is having, especially in this moment of extreme Internet-based enclaves/safe spaces/dark corners, is that it's often publicly perceived as belonging to a group of overly educated but underexperienced 20-somethings with Tumblrs talking about how hard it is to be a woman, and that the battle should be over because women already have "equality." I constantly get this as a definition from players in WoW, and Roosh also mentioned this.

A lot of these people admittedly have also never had a conversation with a self-identified feminist, and so it is easier for them to abstract feminists into a lump of entitled, academic, unrealistic women whom think they should be placed on a pedestal.

What I'm trying to do is get in there where these stereotypes are the most prevalent and the environment for feminists is most hostile, and try to open up a more generous and empathetic conversation across polarized communities so we can address structural issues that create all of these oppositional worldviews. It is some big-picture thinking and not realistic for me to do this on my own, but I figure I can try to make a dent. I never "push an agenda" in my conversations with players in WoW or even with Roosh V...and even if I do disagree with their sentiments (and most often do), I try to create a platform to discuss them publicly.

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Something that strikes me about this project—similarly to the WoW project—is how big and open-ended it is, almost to the point of seeming impossible. Do you have an end in mind, or will you simply keep at it until you find at least some women who've slept with Roosh?

I think in both The Council on Gender Sensitivity and Behavioral Awareness in World of Warcraft and what I'm working on with Roosh V, I thought I had a goal in the beginning, but at some point the projects took unexpected turns. As I did experiential research I realized that both realms were more complicated than I had initially imagined, and I had to adjust my approach and output accordingly.

Right now, I am starting an experimental documentary project and a live performance on the process of trying to find women who have slept with Roosh V. I have an upcoming solo exhibition at San Diego Art Institute in which I will present the interview, timelines, maps of where Roosh has been practicing his seduction techniques based on his books and blog texts dating back to DC Bachelor, diagram drawings, and more. Anyway, this is a bigger project than I initially imagined, and I am seeing it through right now and allowing this semi-intuitive obsession with BANG to be my guide for a little while...

Have you found any women yet? How have you been going about finding women?

It took a long time to work out the strategy for the “how” part of finding women that have had encounters with Roosh V. I've just started the process of looking. No one has come forward yet. I am hoping to use opportunities like this to distribute my call for women. I've been posting on the Craigslist pages of cities Roosh has spent time in. I've also posted on Reddit. I've been collecting images of him with women online (which are somewhat rare actually, and mostly from when he was younger) and have been trying to track down women from those photos. I intend to email authors of the hate-essays that have been written about him in Iceland and Denmark to see if they will distribute my call. I'm also going to make a trek to Washington, DC (where Roosh got his start), and go into places he may have frequented with photos of him and ask around. I'm also in the process of sending WANTED-style posters to friends in Denmark, Poland, Finland, Iceland, and elsewhere to try and distribute the word.

I know it will be difficult, and I know that some women may be embarrassed at having been duped by a seduction author/pickup artist and as Roosh rightly concluded: many women are likely not interested in sharing the details of their personal sex lives with me, even if made completely anonymous. Not everyone wants their private lives made public. I understand that. Also, all of Roosh's work could be part of an elaborate and performative mythology, so I may not find anyone because there literally isn't anyone to find.

But if you, reader, have ever had an exchange with this man, please contact me at [email protected] to share your experience anonymously without judgment!

Jillian Steinhauer is the senior editor of Hyperallergic and a writer living in Brooklyn. She loves cheese, art, baked goods, cats, and comics, in no particular order. You can visit her website and/or follow her on Twitter.

She put up some other funny pics:





Also here

http://visarts.ucsd.edu/news/angela-wash...microgrant



It's more that she got funding - a micro-grant - as in very little money 500$?

[Benoit]

Very interesting insight into her mind. Definitely comes across as obsessive due to social awkwardness / feminist indoctrination.

Being talked to by someone who knew how to take charge put her normal status anxieties out of her mind:

Quote:

He was immediately very performative and groomed his hair and adjusted his lighting to make sure he looked great for the "millions of people" that might see the interview. His performativity made me less nervous and reminded me to go into a more performative and less personal headspace.

This is liberal arts word salad, but it does explain how she appeared normal and reasonable in the interview video, but in writing is way more strident


This quote shows a blinding lack of awareness though - typical of someone who's never had to develop robust reasoning, she doesn't understand that Roosh doesn't care about her schedule, because she's the one who'll benefit most from the interview:

Quote:

I made several suggestions to cut down correspondence time to adhere to his busy schedule and also suggested that we're not in a rush so he can do this at a time that works best for him. (Meanwhile he apparently has no awareness that I am teaching two classes at a research university, am enrolled in a graduate program, and am maintaining my own professional art practice and traveling the world to speak at conferences and install exhibitions and may have schedule restrictions myself).

"Look how high-status and important I am!"

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Quote:

Have you found any women yet? How have you been going about finding women?

It took a long time to work out the strategy for the “how” part of finding women that have had encounters with Roosh V. I've just started the process of looking. No one has come forward yet. I am hoping to use opportunities like this to distribute my call for women. I've been posting on the Craigslist pages of cities Roosh has spent time in. I've also posted on Reddit. I've been collecting images of him with women online (which are somewhat rare actually, and mostly from when he was younger) and have been trying to track down women from those photos. I intend to email authors of the hate-essays that have been written about him in Iceland and Denmark to see if they will distribute my call. I'm also going to make a trek to Washington, DC (where Roosh got his start), and go into places he may have frequented with photos of him and ask around. I'm also in the process of sending WANTED-style posters to friends in Denmark, Poland, Finland, Iceland, and elsewhere to try and distribute the word.

I know it will be difficult, and I know that some women may be embarrassed at having been duped by a seduction author/pickup artist and as Roosh rightly concluded: many women are likely not interested in sharing the details of their personal sex lives with me, even if made completely anonymous. Not everyone wants their private lives made public. I understand that. Also, all of Roosh's work could be part of an elaborate and performative mythology, so I may not find anyone because there literally isn't anyone to find.

But if you, reader, have ever had an exchange with this man, please contact me at [email protected] to share your experience anonymously without judgment!

Women are not manipulated or duped into sex unless a man promises a woman marriage, 10.000$ in cash (and reneges on that offer), tells her blatant important lies like being an Orthodox Jew while being a Palestinian - all of this would be manipulation and deceit. Game is just using communication on women which are different to what works on men. Seduction can be a method, since even the so called Natural seducers - they use generally a process they know works - sometimes they repeat their techniques hundreds of times while women think that "it just happens". The problem with the author is that she will likely never be hit on by such a man with massive Game since they prefer to bang hotter younger girls. She has not experienced the pull of well-done seduction and a love-bubble that such a man can create. It's like an itch she cannot scratch.

"Bangedproject" - wonder if Roosh already regrets having done the interview? It only made it possible and increased her obsession with him. I certainly would not want a feminazi snooping around after me, following me and contacting outright crazy haters like the basement-dwelling PUAHate groups or mainstream idiots.

Also regarding her mis-quoting Roosh she at least posts the entire Skype interview, but the transcript omits some parts which were lass favorable for her feminist logic (for example the whole gender-is-a-social-construct fallacy).

[The Reactionary Tree]

Her project seems like a huge waste of time and resources. It appears she is trying to out Roosh as a fraud.

Either none of the chicks he banged come forward: neither proving or disproving anything.

Or

The chicks Roosh banged come forward and legitimize him.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

My God, these morons are still talking about that SPLC list and treating it as if it were something serious rather than a pile of bullshit created by a group of SJW fanatics.