Posts: 50
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation:
0
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 05:47 AM
What are they going to do?
Posts: 3,652
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2012
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 05:53 AM
I think they're overestimating the size of the crowds in Dresden. I could hardly find a packed bar venue even on weekend nights and they're saying they have crowds for political rallies 17k strong?
If this is accurate, clearly they're getting a lot of non-local commuters showing up to make a statement.
I'm glad this shit didn't happen when I was there, it was a big enough pain in the ass finding a cheap hostel room short notice.
Posts: 11,959
Threads: 0
Joined: Apr 2011
Reputation:
163
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 06:05 AM
Does Germany really have a problem with Muslims? What exact problems are they causing there? From what I've heard, Germany has mostly been letting in civilized Muslims from Turkey and Balkans, not some illiterate rabble from Somalia and Pakistan like Sweden does.
"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for
squid that has never crossed your mind before
Posts: 1,649
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation:
105
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 06:06 AM
^^^Slightly off topic. But I recall a story when I was in Dresden a few years ago. (2010)
I went together with a bunch of friends on a Friday evening to some kind of a park or a larger green area in the center. We chilled out on the grass and popped a few beers, the weather was great so there were a lot of people hanging out there.
When it started to get dark someone made a little bonfire, a lot of people started to gather there and so did we.
All of a fucking sudden:
- Big strong spotlights!
- Sirens!
- Armoured vehicles!
- Riot Police storming!
- Loudspeakers shouting something in German.
I was seconds away from getting smackdowned and handcuffed but I managed to jump and run away in the last second.
We had no idea what the hell that was all about, but later on we were told it was some kind of right wing gathering party.
To me it looked like normal young people chilling out in a park.
Posts: 1,967
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation:
13
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 06:58 AM
I saw a lot of Turks in Rüsselsheim 2 years ago. It was strange.
Deus vult!
Posts: 6,550
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation:
66
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 07:49 AM
I see it as European countries tend to be more homogenized than say the U.S. which is a big melting pot. Any outside influence is seen as negative and threatening to the core identity of that country.
The Jews tend to keep to themselves and stay in their tight little communities. They don't tend to intermarry with non-Jews and they don't assimillate. But at least they don't push their culture on anyone. The problem Germany had with the Jews is that they hoard wealth and secretly had great political influence. Yet they were not Germans and did not promote German culture.
Muslims infiltrate a host country under some pretense and loudly protest in the streets displaying their hatred for everything non-Muslim. Not to mention their have very large families. So there is a threat of breeding out the native Germans over time. And who is paying for all these kids? The German welfare system?
It's going to get bloody in the streets over there.
Team Nachos
Posts: 5,315
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation:
80
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 07:52 AM
So, out of all the Western European countries, is Germany the one that is likely to push back against the Muslim onslaught not only first but the hardest?
Posts: 781
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation:
6
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 08:36 AM
This should be interesting. I've had a few German friends tell me some of the Turks do cause problems in some neighborhoods with bullying. If Germany really does push back I wouldn't be surprised. That country can't really be compared to the rest of Europe.
Posts: 862
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation:
24
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 08:37 AM
Germany doesn't have an Islamization problem as much as it has immigration problem. The real problem is millions non-assimilating Turks, Kurds and Arabs. These people are not radical Muslims, the problem is cultural, not religious. I think Germans know this but still they are trying to hide their anti-immigration agenda behind ''anti-Islamization'' in order to avoid looking like racists to the rest of the world. Opposing Islam is much more understandable and sympathetic than opposing immigrants in today's world.
In short, they want to push back immigrants of specific races without resembling Nazis, so they name it anti-Islamization. Insidious. German Turks are everything but Islamist activisists like those you see in London. If only Germany had the balls to call things what they are, they wouldn't have this problem now. Everything they say about Turks is true, but it's not gonna change unless they stop this political correctness.
Posts: 932
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2013
Reputation:
51
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 12:59 PM
I participated in a very large demonstration yesterday in western Germany, a city with one of the highest concentrations of foreigners. Keep in mind that I am a foreigner in this country myself. The Germans sang Christmas carols and protested more against the media coverage of immigration than Islam itself (on a list of 16 points, Islamification was 8 or 9 I think) They aren't becoming openly hostile towards foreigners, they're just waking up to the fact that they have a culture and that it should be protected.
Many Shia Muslims, Kurds, and Africans participated in the demonstration. They are not Nazis, they're not even right-wing radicals. That needs to be abundantly clear when looking at Pegida and other groups; they are normal people reacting to a single, specific point - the Islamification of Europe (e.g. the introduction of Sharia law, the complete unwillingness of Turkish populations to integrate, the fact that 500 have traveled to fight for ISIS, etc.) It's a movement extremely grounded in intellectualism and rational thought, really the first of its kind, where discourse is driven by the informed center, rather than the ideological right.
Germany has suffered for the past 70 years by completely banning this point of view or any criticism of these social policies. Much of the outrage is pointed at media outlets and journalists, and counter demonstrators who call them Nazis, who themselves try to ban free speech, limit debate, and censor those who don't agree with their leftist viewpoints. It's the very definition of irony.
As a good example of the social context and the significance of this, imagine native Swedes joining similar demonstrations against their own policies and media coverage of immigration. It's just as profound, the only difference being that Germans are bound by heavier shackles due to their recent history. Take ANY media coverage of this with a grain of salt, because it's not honest journalism, just like in Sweden.
If you'd like more details from an "on the ground" perspective feel free to PM me.
Und wenns hier noch andere mitglieder in d-land gibt dann sag bescheid, lass uns mal über weihnachten treffen!
Posts: 1,165
Threads: 0
Joined: Apr 2014
Reputation:
29
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 01:04 PM
In the name of liberal democracy, I wonder how strongly European nations and mainstream political parties will hold on to their pro immigration/multiculturalism policy. It may come to a point soon when they will have to take on a genuinely tough stance.
Posts: 673
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2012
Reputation:
10
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 01:55 PM
Good.
Islam is an opinion, and as any bad opinion like slavery, torture, colonialism, war, etc., it should be intellectually teared to shreds. Islam's adherents in the West should be shamed as harshly as medieval Catholics have been.
Posts: 2,228
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation:
13
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 01:59 PM
I think it's good to a point, if they discourage it and show that it's not acceptable in Germany.... just don't start loading them on to rail cars.
Posts: 471
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation:
24
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 02:50 PM
I used to be very very pro immigration because I honestly believe people should have the right to try and better themselves, and that they shouldn't be punished for something that amounts to dumb luck (what country you're born in). Part of me still feels that way to an extent, but markedly less so.
The refusal for so many to actually integrate into these societies absolutely boggles my mind. You left your country for something better, yet you want to continue the same shitty habits that make your country a hole, here. If you want your culture and way of doing things, its package deal.
I don't care if it's only 200m, its not appropriate to drive the wrong way down a one way street because it's shorter, then sit there at a stand still when you come onto someone head on. Go around. No it's not appropriate to hold your 4 yo up to a food court garbage can in a mall so he can pee in it.
I have many good friends from Middle east & India in Canada here, but almost without exception they're either second generation or were brought up in a western fashion by highly educated parents. They still have their religion, culture, activities, but their habits, mannerisms, how they deal with people and the public, is western. It isn't a problem of race or religion, it's purely one of cultures and mindsets. Ones in which often you simply had to fuck everyone else out of necessity to survive first, then maybe look out for your own second. Many just don't realize that by setting everyone else back 10 miles so they can achieve 1, and 10 other people are doing the same to them, that absolutely everyone loses.
Most highly educated people I've met, regardless of religion, culture, or language, get this and don't act like parasites. I believe the problem is one of education.
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 02:51 PM
Where is our resident muslim spin doctor?
Posts: 1,426
Threads: 0
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation:
33
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 02:56 PM
I will not respond to any passive agressive troll poster this time.
Most of constructive posters on this thread have interesting arguments, will participate later to the debate, when I have time.
Posts: 2,223
Threads: 0
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation:
23
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 03:04 PM
I don't like the sound of these 'ere Boncentration Bamps.
Posts: 1,116
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation:
27
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 03:42 PM
Multiculturalism was invented by the Western leaders to appease their spooked out voters following the end of legal segregation. Multiculturalism is the opposite of integration, but I believe many voters of European decent are more hostile to full blown integration than they are to the 'separate but equal' multi cultural societies of today.
If people wanted integration they should've have it already.
Integration means mixed marriages, mixed neighborhoods, mixed kids, mixed schools. Multiple cultures dissappear or merge and it becomes one culture.
Some peoples integrate quicker but it's due to stronger push pull,. Majority wants them to integrate, and they want to integrate. Some others not so much.
Sometimes I don't understand what people of different viewpoints are protesting. Is it Islam, integration, immigration, multiculturalism? I think people themselves don't even know anymore.
Posts: 1,133
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation:
55
The End of Tolerance for Islam in Germany?
12-23-2014, 03:43 PM
I concur with a lot that has been said in this thread. I grew up in Belgium (as an immigrant), and I got a lot of shit. But now I understand where the Belgians came from. I experienced the anti-immigrant vibe, but I really can't blame them. We have tons of Turks and Moroccans who are very poorly integrated, speak Dutch with a foreign accent (I'm talking about the 2nd and 3rd generation) and are known to steal and pick pocket. Some of my friends have visited Turkey and Morocco and they've heard the same thing said in this thread: they're sending their trash to Europe.
I'm glad some Germans are pushing back.