[britchard]

Last night, by-elections were held in two constituencies in the North and South of England. Whilst left wing Labour won one of the seats, the other was one by a Tory defect to UKIP, a far(ish) right wing party. This is their first ever parliamentary seat after previously 'winning' the European elections in May. Some of their notable policies:

•To have a 30% income tax rate for all citizens earning over the benefit cap, however only the amount you earn over the benefit cap (which is around £22,000) is taxed.

•To leave the EU. They are worried about Brussels having too much control, and also want to be able to set our own immigration laws.

•To reduce the price of beer.

I remember back in May some female newspaper journalist calling UKIP misogynistic. They are a very male-orientated party, and their current polling support is 41% amongst men, and 21% amongst women.

Full article: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014...s-carswell

[Candlejack]

UKIP are the lesser of four evils.

[Tex Pro]

[Phoenix]

If UKIP ever get into power, I have made a promise to myself to fly to England to join the celebrations.

I doubt they will succeed in arresting the 'sinking of the ship' that is Britain, but they will at least constitute a moral action of 'we should at least try and plug up some holes'.

[Akula]

Farage's harangues at the EU bureaucracy and craziness of their current social and economic policies are legendary.

This is good for Britain on the whole, but the BBC and left-wing media will go to great lengths to portray them as 'extremists' and/or 'racists' when they mostly are just telling the truth and using common sense.

The UK has floated along for years on the back of the filthy lucre from corrupt Arab, Russian, African, Kazakh etc. that has flowed into London (particularly London real estate). Also the FIRE industry jobs and taxes the result from most of the world useing London as it's financial banking center (and English Law for international disputes).

Without that the UK would be in far worse shape that it is in currently. Outside London it's already floundering in many parts. IMO it can only get worse from here unless things change dramatically and the politicians are forced to make the hard choices. Seems like that's a pretty tall order despite the UKIP's inroads.

[Tex Pro]

Nigel Farage is a great public speaker and he is dead right about the EU:

[Foolsgo1d]

They will be sidelined by a good chunk of the electorate, mainly labour voters and women because they're mostly white men with the old British ideals at heart. In other words, racist to be proud of what British people want for Britain. Mainly England.

It will start to gather momentum with the shit stirring campaign against them come February 2015. They already have dealings in the media.

The stupid thing about this slur campaigns is that the sheep who will vote are going to believe it.

They're fighting against

1: Women voters
2: Feminism
3: Ethnic voters (would never vote in large numbers for UKIP)
4: Hipsters, low testosterone men who are pussy whipped or are race apologists
5: Young idiots who get suckered by labour and lib dem lies

A difficult list to overcome.

I dont have much hope for a good election in 2015. Mainly because the Lib Dems got into shared power because of one big fat lie. The tuition fee's. If that is possible then you would be right to be worried if Labour gets some good promises into the minds of stupid people.

[britchard]

The only real downside I can see to leaving the EU is not being able to visit other countries freely, but the benefits outweigh that.

[Foolsgo1d]

(10-10-2014 10:07 AM)britchard Wrote:  

The only real downside I can see to leaving the EU is not being able to visit other countries freely, but the benefits outweigh that.

If the UK were to remove itself from the control of the EU it does not mean it isn't part of the EU as a whole. Trading and commercial interests would be sustained, it is the laws and proxy control orders we don't want.

The latest case of a Latvian psychopath murderer who killed his wife and was allowed to move freely around the EU is something we have issues with. That and it would be unlikely we could have deported him.

It will also allow us to curtail this bullshit facade France is playing with us about immigrants in and around calais. Member states should provide housing on a person's port of call but France likes to guide them to the UK.

Oh yeah, we also need permission from the EU masters in order to trade with the commonwealth countries.

[vinman]

The only reason that this particular Merican knows about UKIP is because of Nigel Farage. I love that guy! He motherfucks members of the EU with such eloquence, you can watch for hours and not be bored.

[SteveMcMahon]

(10-10-2014 06:52 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

They will be sidelined by a good chunk of the electorate, mainly labour voters and women because they're mostly white men with the old British ideals at heart. In other words, racist to be proud of what British people want for Britain. Mainly England.

Dunno about that, they're picking up a lot of disgruntled former Labour voters.

When I was a boy Labour was unapologetically a party for the working classes, and most of its MP's were former shop stewards who knew what it was like to knock your pan in riveting on a shipyard or digging coal down a mine.

It has since morphed into a SJW party run by lawyers and professional politicians who've never had real jobs. It's now obsessed with feminism, anti-racism, climate change, the usual smorgasbord of right-on ideas that go down well with poncy middle-class students and Guardian-reading civil servants/charity workers.

Your average working class Englishman doesn't have much time for a party that's more interested in getting boobs banned from page 3 of The Sun than it is stopping hordes of foreigners changing his hometown into something resembling the Mos Eisley Cantina.

UKIP probably does have a harder time picking up female votes because they're not seen as "nice", whether or not that remains the case in the longer term remains to be seen. Women tend to go along with conventional wisdom, but conventional wisdom is changing. UKIP probably appeals more to married women than it does to younger girls with "careers".

There are plenty of people in UKIP who aren't white, but it doesn't matter how many black or asian candidates they put up, the media will still call them racists because that's what the media does.

[britchard]

I've just remembered why the guardian was so outraged at UKIP about a year ago. Basically a party member said something about the 'go out and get hammered every Saturday' culture and said until it stopped rape incidents would continue to rise.

[Basil Ransom]

"When I was a boy Labour was unapologetically a party for the working classes, and most of its MP's were former shop stewards who knew what it was like to knock your pan in riveting on a shipyard or digging coal down a mine.

It has since morphed into a SJW party run by lawyers and professional politicians who've never had real jobs. It's now obsessed with feminism, anti-racism, climate change, the usual smorgasbord of right-on ideas that go down well with poncy middle-class students and Guardian-reading civil servants/charity workers."

Considering Labour's historical support for mass immigration, you are wrong - the labor party was then too not truly a defender of the proletariat. The commoners may have supported labor, but that was due to ignorance of labor's true nature and their lack of better options.

Enoch Powell, a brilliant man who spoke out against mass immigration, was popular among the lower classes, but the political establishment, Tory and labour alike, destroyed him.

NB: The term "working classes" is stupid. It covers many people who don't work, and does not include many who do. The term is used by Marxists and people too afraid to simply say the lower classes, the proletariat, the commoners or the plebeians.

[SteveMcMahon]

(10-10-2014 02:08 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

"When I was a boy Labour was unapologetically a party for the working classes, and most of its MP's were former shop stewards who knew what it was like to knock your pan in riveting on a shipyard or digging coal down a mine.

It has since morphed into a SJW party run by lawyers and professional politicians who've never had real jobs. It's now obsessed with feminism, anti-racism, climate change, the usual smorgasbord of right-on ideas that go down well with poncy middle-class students and Guardian-reading civil servants/charity workers."

Considering Labour's historical support for mass immigration, you are wrong - the labor party was then too not truly a defender of the lower classes. The lower classes may have supported labor, but that was due to ignorance of labor's true nature and their lack of better options.

Enoch Powell, a brilliant man who spoke out against mass immigration, was popular among the lower classes, but the political establishment, Tory and labour alike, destroyed him.

NB: The term "working classes" is stupid. It covers many people who don't work, and does not include many who do.

I know. The thing is, it was easy for voters to ignore the issue of immigration 30 or 40 years ago when there just weren't that many immigrants in most parts of the country.

When Enoch Powell was fulminating against immigration in 1968, it was a bit like Noah warning people about a flood. Most of them looked up and saw clear skies, and concluded the man must be crazy. Was he warning against Mr. Patel, the nice new doctor from Lahore?

It was easy to spin Enoch Powell's speeches into a race-hate narrative, and Powell's talk of "grinning picaninnies" didn't help his case. He was right about the destructive nature of mass immigration, but he was also an eccentric who could very easily come across as an unpleasant bigot.

For what it's worth, I don't think Labour went truly mass-immigration crazy until 1997. Prior to that, most Labour and Tory governments permitted immigration of Pakistani shopkeepers and factory workers, Indian doctors, Nigerian nurses and the like. After 1997 the unspoken policy of the government was to let everybody in - the more alien to British life, the more dependent on taxpayer assistance, the better, as every Labour vote counts.

I agree the term "working class" is much abused in modern discourse, but in our still class-conscious society it has value when used correctly. It's useful as a shorthand for talking about the difference in values and culture between, say, taxi drivers, plumbers and hairdressers on one hand, and public sector middle managers, journalists, and university lecturers on the other.

Labour started hating the British working class when the British working class helped elect Margaret Thatcher to power three times in a row. They're now the party of benefits claimants, public sector employees, and immigrants. They'll throw the odd bone to "working families" in speeches and whatnot, but that's just bait for suckers.

[Foolsgo1d]

For what its worth, and not to turn this into a race thread.

Immigration allowed Labour new waves of voters. These guys would not vote UKIP, BNP or Tories in a million years. Labour gave them cash and it is common practice for Muslims to hoard votes amidst their families and use it as a voting bloc.

This always confuses me and the "working class" voters of labour. Labour has sunk a lot of their voters into a quagmire and yet they still hate the Tories for closing down coal mines and nationalising things. They're so ignorant towards the problems of today that its mindblowing.

[Geomann180]

(10-10-2014 01:30 AM)britchard Wrote:  

•To reduce the price of beer.

I don't know any man who could disagree with this!

G

[Deluge]

UKIP's immigration policies are very different from the say the BNP or the Front Nationale, Swedish Democrats etc. They want to introduce a points system for immigration like Canada/Australia/NZ have, but also leave the E.U. This means in practice that while there will be less immigrants under a UKIP government and they will be well qualified and probably already speak English, the percentage who are white will completely collapse. London daygamers will have to say goodbye to all their Polish and French girls.

[WalterBlack]

The last UK PM who had any balls when it came to standing up to Europe was John Major, even though he was a pretty terrible PM otherwise.

The media is now shitting on Farage for some sensible comments he made on immigration

Quote:

In an interview in Newsweek Europe, Mr Farage said he wanted to "control the quantity and quality of people who come... people who do not have HIV".

Mr Farage later told the BBC he would extend the ban to "people with tuberculosis too".

Quote:

In his interview with Newsweek Europe Mr Farage is quoted as saying immigrants from outside Europe are "discriminated against because we have an open door into Europe today".

Mr Farage added: "If you're an Indian engineer, say, your chances of admission are limited. UKIP want to control the quantity and quality of people who come."

The UKIP leader then went on to define what he meant by "quality".
"It's simple. That Latvian convicted murderer shouldn't have been allowed here. Yes and people who do not have HIV, to be frank. That's a good start. And people with a skill."

"What are those words inscribed under the Statue of Liberty? 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses . . . ' What you're saying is: 'Bring me your electricians, your merchant bankers and your guys without HIV'."

[SteveMcMahon]

(10-10-2014 07:56 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

The last UK PM who had any balls when it came to standing up to Europe was John Major, even though he was a pretty terrible PM otherwise.

The media is now shitting on Farage for some sensible comments he made on immigration

Quote:

In an interview in Newsweek Europe, Mr Farage said he wanted to "control the quantity and quality of people who come... people who do not have HIV".

Mr Farage later told the BBC he would extend the ban to "people with tuberculosis too".

Quote:

In his interview with Newsweek Europe Mr Farage is quoted as saying immigrants from outside Europe are "discriminated against because we have an open door into Europe today".

Mr Farage added: "If you're an Indian engineer, say, your chances of admission are limited. UKIP want to control the quantity and quality of people who come."

The UKIP leader then went on to define what he meant by "quality".
"It's simple. That Latvian convicted murderer shouldn't have been allowed here. Yes and people who do not have HIV, to be frank. That's a good start. And people with a skill."

"What are those words inscribed under the Statue of Liberty? 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses . . . ' What you're saying is: 'Bring me your electricians, your merchant bankers and your guys without HIV'."

Loved this comment in that article:

Quote:

The Terrence Higgins Trust said the UKIP leader's remarks displayed a "new level of ignorance".

"The idea that having HIV should be used as a black mark against someone's name is ridiculous and shows an outrageous lack of understanding of the issue," the charity's chief executive Rosemary Gillespie said.

"In bracketing those living with the condition with murderers, and suggesting there is no place for them in his vision of Britain, Mr Farage has stooped to a new level of ignorance. He should be truly ashamed," she added.

Not sure if "doctor" Rosemary Gillespie has reading comprehension difficulties or was just blinded by her reflexive salival spray of spluttered indignation at that awful, awful man Nigel Farage venturing an opinion. He did not "bracket" AIDS victims with murderers. I'm pretty sure Farage doesn't think people with HIV are like homicidal criminals.

The Terrence Higgins Trust is a fake charity. By fake, I mean most of its money doesn't come from voluntary charitable donations at all - most of its money comes from the government. I haven't got much better to do right now due to the flu, so I checked out their accounts:

Their last annual reported income was £20,107,000 pounds. Of that amount, £13,888,000 came from "statutory bodies", i.e. the taxpayer. Of course, the poor old British taxpayer wasn't asked if he wanted his money to be sent to the Terrence Higgins Trust. Our betters in "statutory bodies" decided that for us.

It doesn't say in the accounts how much Gillespie gets paid, but her predecessor was on £80,000 to £89,999 - he had been in the job 25 years and she was headhunted by a recruitment consultant, so it's reasonable to believe she's probably on a comfortable six figure salary. Nice work if you can get it.

Rosemary Gillespie's career history is on LinkedIn, she's a typical "Third Sector" queen, i.e. she hasn't held down a real job since 1991, since then she's been doing quite nicely in a string of public sector / quango / government-funded-charity jobs where she "facilitated" things and sorted out "stakeholder engagement" and "communications strategies" - the usual shite these folks cite in place of actual achievements:

http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/rosemary-gill...14/329/a25

Like all these third sector types, she's a radical lefty:

Senior Lecturer: Health and Social Policy, Sociology, Gender Studies
University of Portsmouth

She calls herself "doctor", but she's actually a trained nurse with one of those joke PhD's:

University of Southampton
PhD awarded 1999, Health and Social Policy/ Sociology

And this is what "doctor" Rosemary Gillespie looks like:


Would not bang; don't want AIDS

So to summarise, we have here a fake doctor running a fake charity, paid handsomely by the taxpayer to tell us we'd jolly well better accept any HIV-infected immigrant who shows up at Heathrow Airport, or else we're "ignorant".

Given her current job and background in the NHS, it's not possible that Gillespie doesn't know that HIV is a communicable, life-threatening disease, and that all immigrants are automatically entitled to free NHS care in the UK, and that HIV drugs are hugely expensive. She knows all that, and she wants them here anyway.

Fellow Britons, we need our own Statue of Liberty.



A massive copper and steel likeness of "doctor" Rosemary Gillespie, nobly wagging her disapproving finger with one hand, and courageously stuffing banknotes into her trouser suit with the other.

An inscription underneath would read:

Give me your lazy, your stupid,
Your HIV-infected masses yearning for free healthcare,
The rectal gonorrhea'ed refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the scrofulous, bum bandits to me,
I lift my handbag and shower you with tax-funded goodies!

[Feisbook Control]

I wonder how long Labour will even hold onto the immigrant vote. When the percentage of immigrants, or their descendants who still have sympathies that way, reaches a certain threshold, surely they'll either expect a much greater say within the Labour Party or form their own party, at least at the local level in certain regions. It will actually become a major headache for the champagne socialist set and chattering classes. Watch the cognitive dissonance as part of the Labour Party, or a coalition partner, starts pushing for school segregation by sex, for instance.

[Collide]

I hope UKIP gets into power for many reasons, but the sweetest would be to simply watch the reaction of Marxist Brand.

[Saga]

Countries as diverse as New Zealand, Paraguay, Singapore, Slovakia, Nicaragua and dozens more have restrictions on HIV-positive foreigners seeking work/residency/etc permits...the idea that it's some awful crime against humanity for the UK to require the same is, to put it mildly, incredibly fucking stupid. The ascendancy of UKIP tells us there's still some appreciation for common sense left in the west.

As for the above video, I like how even Brand admits that his first reaction is to agree with Farage's comments (5:07). Evidently, progressive ideologues are constantly bludgeoning into submission the remaining wiser angels of their nature.

[Candlejack]

My father came from Pakistan in the 1960's. He was a banker but ended up working as a taxi driver. I was born here, my brothers and sisters were all born here and we consider ourselves British. We all have professional jobs; doctors, teachers, social work etc and we pay taxes, are involved in local community projects and are all law abiding. We have only been to Pakistan a handful of times. Coming from an immigrant family, it may surprise you to learn that we all believe that immigration has gone too far. And this is a common feeling amongst many 2nd/3rd generation British families. There was a time when being an Asian was a novelty but now being an Asian is only a novelty in the Highlands of Scotland. The number of foreigners has skyrocketed. There have been a great number of students come from abroad to study but then disappear. So many restaurants are full of illegals who have overstayed. There are things the Asian eye can spot but the native British eye cannot. British open door policy has attracted the scum of the Third World and Eastern Europe. One of my colleagues told me she doesn't go clubbing because the clubs are "full of Nigerian rapists." Her words. Human rights legislation prevents the deportation of many of them. Its a mad, bad situation.

[britchard]

(10-11-2014 03:56 AM)Candlejack Wrote:  

My father came from Pakistan in the 1960's. He was a banker but ended up working as a taxi driver. I was born here, my brothers and sisters were all born here and we consider ourselves British. We all have professional jobs; doctors, teachers, social work etc and we pay taxes, are involved in local community projects and are all law abiding. We have only been to Pakistan a handful of times. Coming from an immigrant family, it may surprise you to learn that we all believe that immigration has gone too far. And this is a common feeling amongst many 2nd/3rd generation British families. There was a time when being an Asian was a novelty but now being an Asian is only a novelty in the Highlands of Scotland. The number of foreigners has skyrocketed. There have been a great number of students come from abroad to study but then disappear. So many restaurants are full of illegals who have overstayed. There are things the Asian eye can spot but the native British eye cannot. British open door policy has attracted the scum of the Third World and Eastern Europe. One of my colleagues told me she doesn't go clubbing because the clubs are "full of Nigerian rapists." Her words. Human rights legislation prevents the deportation of many of them. Its a mad, bad situation.

Agreed. Interesting to see your view as an Asian. There are some immigrants who work so hard and deserve to be allowed to live and work here, whilst others are disgusting in their behaviour.

[Candlejack]

(10-11-2014 05:09 AM)britchard Wrote:  

(10-11-2014 03:56 AM)Candlejack Wrote:  

My father came from Pakistan in the 1960's. He was a banker but ended up working as a taxi driver. I was born here, my brothers and sisters were all born here and we consider ourselves British. We all have professional jobs; doctors, teachers, social work etc and we pay taxes, are involved in local community projects and are all law abiding. We have only been to Pakistan a handful of times. Coming from an immigrant family, it may surprise you to learn that we all believe that immigration has gone too far. And this is a common feeling amongst many 2nd/3rd generation British families. There was a time when being an Asian was a novelty but now being an Asian is only a novelty in the Highlands of Scotland. The number of foreigners has skyrocketed. There have been a great number of students come from abroad to study but then disappear. So many restaurants are full of illegals who have overstayed. There are things the Asian eye can spot but the native British eye cannot. British open door policy has attracted the scum of the Third World and Eastern Europe. One of my colleagues told me she doesn't go clubbing because the clubs are "full of Nigerian rapists." Her words. Human rights legislation prevents the deportation of many of them. Its a mad, bad situation.

Agreed. Interesting to see your view as an Asian. There are some immigrants who work so hard and deserve to be allowed to live and work here, whilst others are disgusting in their behaviour.

Indeed. When the British first asked for immigrants from Pakistan, as far as I know, they opened two offices. One was in Islamabad and the other, for God knows whatever reason, was in Mirpur. The Islamabad office was solely for professionals and the Mirpur office was for everyone else. It was slap bang in the middle of one of the most deprived, backwards and illiterate regions in Pakistan. If you look at the desendants of those Mirpuris today in Britain, they are mostly in Yorkshire, London and Birmingham. Amongst the British Pakistani community they are the most backward, illiterate, violent, intolerant and are the most deprived community. I suspect that most,if not all, of the Asian guys who have been jailed for grooming girls have a Mirpuri background. They have the "Mirpuri face". You can usually tell a group of Mirpuris from their style in clothing, swagger, speech and manner, a lack of formal education and general thuggishness.